Agbeko

[dlarry]

This is big, IMO. People who have followed this team (MBMs) have been very nervous about the team next year. After seeing GG's improvement and the recruiting the staff has done in the last year, I think the optimism is very high relative to a few months ago.

Agree. I feel better but Im still nervous.

You are always going to be worried when you lose 4 starters.

[Box and Won]

Actually, I think you were more victimized by DocB posting on a somewhat old thread. boytoy started the thread on the 11th when Agbeko's status for the SIUE and SIU games was still unclear. So I can see how you were confused about the discussion of redshirts or medical redshirts when you'd already seen Agbeko play against Carbondale. While there was obviously sarcasm in those posts, they were also done over a week ago.

Boytoy is the source of most problems on this board, so that makes perfect sense.

[NH]

I didn't get to see the SIU game or the exhibition. Can someone can a mini scouting report on Agbeko? Is he a physical player? Does he have legitimate height for a big? Etc Etc. I understand there isn't much to go on.

[ACE]

I think McBroom and Yacoubou will make a decent back court as well. There will certainly be a drop off and I expect a few clunker perforamces with a such a young team, but I am much more optimistic than I was 6 or 7 months ago.

There is no question there will be a drop, but it is a question of how far will be the drop off.

I recall way back to when Spoon had back to back trips to the Dance. I believe they managed to make the NIT the following year, but IMO that team wasn't really deserving. Then the year after that, the program really took a step back as I think Spoon did not do a very good job with recruiting and building on recent success.

I think the future of the program is in better shape now as RM built a roster capable of a 3rd consecutive trip to the Dance AND Crews and Co. really seem to have opened up some recruiting doors as a result of our recent success. I think the program is in better position for sustained success.

[stlhoops]

Go back and look the last 3 or 4 years and see how Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Jett, etc were rated. Significantly higher than the 2013 or 2014 class. Not saying this means we are all the sudden a bad team but Crews is going to have to do a hell of a job coaching these next 2 classes.

[JettFlight5]

Go back and look the last 3 or 4 years and see how Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Jett, etc were rated. Significantly higher than the 2013 or 2014 class. Not saying this means we are all the sudden a bad team but Crews is going to have to do a hell of a job coaching these next 2 classes.

If I read VC right, every recruit that was brought in since JC took over is as highly regarded as this senior class or better. This senior class is 2 to 2.5 star recruits who have busted their donkeys to get where they are. The talent level is going up at SLU in a big hurry.

[kshoe]

Go back and look the last 3 or 4 years and see how Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Jett, etc were rated. Significantly higher than the 2013 or 2014 class. Not saying this means we are all the sudden a bad team but Crews is going to have to do a hell of a job coaching these next 2 classes.

For somebody that has only 11 posts you sure failed on the 11th one. Those guys were NOT significantly higher rated than the 2013 or 2104 classes.

It doesn't mean these recent classes will perform better than those previous classes (that would be pretty amazing given that this year's senior class has had more success than any other class in SLU modern history), just that the rankings weren't all that different coming out of high school.

[ACE]

If I read VC right, every recruit that was brought in since JC took over is as highly regarded as this senior class or better. This senior class is 2 to 2.5 star recruits who have busted their donkeys to get where they are. The talent level is going up at SLU in a big hurry.

That is my recollection as well. I don't think McCall or Evans had ANY BCS offers. Jett had some interest from Baylor, but it was very unclear who in the hell actually offered him. Of course ratings don't guarantee success of failure, but I always would rather have higher rated players to increase my odds of success. Time will tell if Crews can develop players and have them fit into the system as well as RM could.

[SShoe]

Go back and look the last 3 or 4 years and see how Mitchell, Ellis, McCall, Jett, etc were rated. Significantly higher than the 2013 or 2014 class. Not saying this means we are all the sudden a bad team but Crews is going to have to do a hell of a job coaching these next 2 classes.

While Mitchell was a 3-star recruit and rated as the 31st rated PG, both McCall and Jett were 2-Star recruits and had no positional ratings (Scout).

Roby, Bartley, and Reynolds are all rated as 3-star recruits.

Try again.

[bauman]

There is no question there will be a drop, but it is a question of how far will be the drop off.

I recall way back to when Spoon had back to back trips to the Dance. I believe they managed to make the NIT the following year, but IMO that team wasn't really deserving. Then the year after that, the program really took a step back as I think Spoon did not do a very good job with recruiting and building on recent success.

I think the future of the program is in better shape now as RM built a roster capable of a 3rd consecutive trip to the Dance AND Crews and Co. really seem to have opened up some recruiting doors as a result of our recent success. I think the program is in better position for sustained success.

I agree with those of you who are becoming more confident about next year if, and this is a big If, we get a significant amount of playing time for our three FR this year. If RA, TL and MC don't get meaningful experience this year then I think we will pay the price next year. i think we will be ok at the 1 and 2 next year with AM, AY, MR, DR and especially MB, but with no expected help coming next year from this current recruiting class we need RA and TL to be real contributors in 2014-15. I like both our incoming bigs, but I don't think we can expect any meaningful contributions from them next year.

I know many on this Board disagree with my point of forcing playing time for the three FR this year, but in my business life I saw the failed results of planning for the short term (next quarter) instead of doing things that will cost in the short term but result in long term success. If we are to become a consistent NCAA team then our horizon must be beyond the current year. That doesn't mean we don't place a priority on this year, but rather that we keep the future in the forefront of our thinking.

[SShoe]

I agree with those of you who are becoming more confident about next year if, and this is a big If, we get a significant amount of playing time for our three FR this year. If RA, TL and MC don't get meaningful experience this year then I think we will pay the price next year. i think we will be ok at the 1 and 2 next year with AM, AY, MR, DR and especially MB, but with no expected help coming next year from this current recruiting class we need RA and TL to be real contributors in 2014-15. I like both our incoming bigs, but I don't think we can expect any meaningful contributions from them next year.

I know many on this Board disagree with my point of forcing playing time for the three FR this year, but in my business life I saw the failed results of planning for the short term (next quarter) instead of doing things that will cost in the short term but result in long term success. If we are to become a consistent NCAA team then our horizon must be beyond the current year. That doesn't mean we don't place a priority on this year, but rather that we keep the future in the forefront of our thinking.

Fair enough, but how far do you take this? I'm not too interested in sacrificing Ws so that MC and TL can get 5 extra minutes per game. While having success next year is very important for the longevity of this program, so is making the NCAA tournament a third straight season.

[Cowboy]

I didn't get to see the SIU game or the exhibition. Can someone can a mini scouting report on Agbeko? Is he a physical player? Does he have legitimate height for a big? Etc Etc. I understand there isn't much to go on.

-that ^ 6 minutes against Methdale

[Cowboy]

Fair enough, but how far do you take this? I'm not too interested in sacrificing Ws so that MC and TL can get 5 extra minutes per game. While having success next year is very important for the longevity of this program, so is making the NCAA tournament a third straight season.

-well said

[bauman]

Fair enough, but how far do you take this? I'm not too interested in sacrificing Ws so that MC and TL can get 5 extra minutes per game. While having success next year is very important for the longevity of this program, so is making the NCAA tournament a third straight season.

I agree with you that this year and making the NCAA this year is very important. If I had to pick one or the other I think I would go with this year, but I don't think it is an either or. I think we can do both-have a good year (Top 25) this year and work RA, TL and MC into the rotation. This assumes that all three of them are as good as we hope they will be.

[NH]

I'll say this on the issue of recruit rankings of our current class. While STL Hoops definitely is not correct that the old recruits are less-highly touted than the previous classes, I think the rankings/offers are more similar than people on this board are making them out to be.

The 2010 class consisted of Rob Loe, Jordair Jett, Mike McCall and Dwayne Evans.

The 2014 class consists currently of Brett Jolly, Austin Gillmann, Miles Reynolds, Davell Roby, and Marcus Bartley.

The average star rating of the classes according to Verbal Commits:

2010: 2.45

2014: 2.58

The number of BCS offers per player in each class according to my best guess based on the information that is/was available about their recruiting:

2010: 2 or 2.5

2014: 2.2

They seem like incredibly even classes on paper to me. If they are also even on the court, which I have a good feeling about, that will be huge.

[Archy McNally]

While Mitchell was a 3-star recruit and rated as the 31st rated PG, both McCall and Jett were 2-Star recruits and had no positional ratings (Scout).

Roby, Bartley, and Reynolds are all rated as 3-star recruits.

Try again.

That's not how I recall those posts when Jett and company signed. And for good reason, the ESPN ratings were 91, 90, 88, and 80. Those ratings were highlighted in those posts. The last two classes are not as high, Roby's the closest at 78. And the 2010 class has proven they are the most talented SLU class in awhile. Loe was selected by the World team to play against the US HS All stars.

[SShoe]

That's not how I recall those posts when Jett and company signed. And for good reason, the ESPN ratings were 91, 90, 88, and 80. Those ratings were highlighted in those posts. The last two classes are not as high, Roby's the closest at 78. And the 2010 class has proven they are the most talented SLU class in awhile. Loe was selected by the World team to play against the US HS All stars.

I just looked up the ESPN ratings and while Jett had a higher ESPN rating than the incoming frosh, McCall, for example, had no rating (just meant they had not evaluated him). I believe ESPN also changed their ratings system, so difficult to compare. For example, I'm fairly certain that an 80 at that time meant an NR.

Like I said in my initial post, these were all Scout rankings, so take them for what you will. I would be thrilled if the incoming class can match the success and talent of the 2010 class. Regardless, the statement that the 2010 class was rated significantly higher than the 2014 one seems to be a significant stretch.

[Zink]

I just looked up the ESPN ratings and while Jett had a higher ESPN rating than the incoming frosh, McCall, for example, had no rating (just meant they had not evaluated him). I believe ESPN also changed their ratings system, so difficult to compare. For example, I'm fairly certain that an 80 at that time meant an NR.

Like I said in my initial post, these were all Scout rankings, so take them for what you will. I would be thrilled if the incoming class can match the success and talent of the 2010 class. Regardless, the statement that the 2010 class was rated significantly higher than the 2014 one seems to be a significant stretch.

Yes, ESPN totally revamped their rating system a few years ago. There isn't a great way to compare the ESPN ratings between classes as they shifted everything to a scale that is more like rivals/ scout. Previously almost everyone who was scouted was given at least an 80, but now that floor is more like 60.

[Tonka]

I agree with you that this year and making the NCAA this year is very important. If I had to pick one or the other I think I would go with this year, but I don't think it is an either or. I think we can do both-have a good year (Top 25) this year and work RA, TL and MC into the rotation. This assumes that all three of them are as good as we hope they will be.

This is old school thinking in some regard for our fans and I understand that. We're not the Billikens of old and we've built a nice foundation now and things going forward are going to be new for Billiken fans. For example, I mentioned a couple weeks ago that we're so used to having high expectations on incoming freshman in terms how we would like them to contribute their first year and now that's changing. We're building the program so that freshman won't have to step right in and contribute. Sure, it would be nice if we find players that do, but if we're building the program correctly the upperclassmen should get the bulk of the minutes and the underclassmen should be learning the system and step right in when the seniors graduate and you shouldn't drop off too much.

It's going to be hard not to take a tiny step backwards next year for no other reason than that we have four guys that have played a long time together all getting significant minutes. It's pretty rare that you have 3-4 guys that have logged pretty good minutes since they were freshman.

Our recruiting has gone up even if it's just slightly. We're not at the point of just "reloading" yet, but we're moving in the right direction. If Reggie is what we think he will be and Grandy continues his play, throw in some experience from Ash and the fact that McBroom will be in his third year in the system, I like our team next year. You put a year under Crawford and Lancona and add in some talented recruits, I will have pretty high expectations for next year's team too. Maybe not as high as this year's expectations, but nonetheless - high.

[stlhoops]

So I was off slightly on the level of interest/rating between the various classes. The point is the same. I hope those who think the talent level is going way up are correct. I just don't see it that way when comparing the current roster when they were seniors/being evaluated in high school and the seniors that will be here next year. I hope I'm wrong. Again, main point is Crews is going to have to do a spectacular job of coaching to keep up the level of success. Same way Majerus did. Obviously a move to the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process.

[stlhoops]

I just looked up the ESPN ratings and while Jett had a higher ESPN rating than the incoming frosh, McCall, for example, had no rating (just meant they had not evaluated him). I believe ESPN also changed their ratings system, so difficult to compare. For example, I'm fairly certain that an 80 at that time meant an NR.

Like I said in my initial post, these were all Scout rankings, so take them for what you will. I would be thrilled if the incoming class can match the success and talent of the 2010 class. Regardless, the statement that the 2010 class was rated significantly higher than the 2014 one seems to be a significant stretch.

So by your scout standards Cassity was a 3 star recruit and the 39th best SF in the country. OK, thank you.

[gobillsgo]

So I was off slightly on the level of interest/rating between the various classes. The point is the same. I hope those who think the talent level is going way up are correct. I just don't see it that way when comparing the current roster when they were seniors/being evaluated in high school and the seniors that will be here next year. I hope I'm wrong. Again, main point is Crews is going to have to do a spectacular job of coaching to keep up the level of success. Same way Majerus did. Obviously a move to the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process.

^ dude clearly hasn't heard of BRETT JOLLY.

[Bizziken]

So I was off slightly on the level of interest/rating between the various classes. The point is the same. I hope those who think the talent level is going way up are correct. I just don't see it that way when comparing the current roster when they were seniors/being evaluated in high school and the seniors that will be here next year. I hope I'm wrong. Again, main point is Crews is going to have to do a spectacular job of coaching to keep up the level of success. Same way Majerus did. Obviously a move to the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process.

I remember (and I could be wrong) that people were extremely excited about Loe, somewhat excited about McCall, not excited about Evans (except DocB), and Jett being a relative question mark. The knock on McCall was that he was small, on Evans that he was undersized, and on Jett that he had shooting and control issues. While next year's frontcourt additions will probably not be prepared to step in immediately, there is some develop-able talent and raw materials with which to work. The backcourt, at least to me, seems a little stronger overall than the 2010 class. More size, more polished, no glaring weaknesses.

Some of the excitement for this current recruiting class can be chalked up to more EXPOSURE in the recruiting process. Since we've all seen countless YouTube videos, tweets, and interviews by these guys, it is 'easier' to develop a favorable and more informed opinion of them. Also, a lot of people were probably expecting the worst when it came to recruiting, so this class ended up being a pleasant surprise.

[Clock_Tower]

So I was off slightly on the level of interest/rating between the various classes. The point is the same. I hope those who think the talent level is going way up are correct. I just don't see it that way when comparing the current roster when they were seniors/being evaluated in high school and the seniors that will be here next year. I hope I'm wrong. Again, main point is Crews is going to have to do a spectacular job of coaching to keep up the level of success. Same way Majerus did. Obviously a move to the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process.

No. It is not obvious that a move the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process. In short, we have seen that recruits following winning programs and really good coaches. Conference affiliations is not the big factor that you make it out to be. SLU was in the Great Midwest and Conf USA but never recruited like it has these past 6 years. Butler, X, Creighton, Gonzaga, etc. have all proved that conferences are not as important as you suggest. Further, all of the bad teams in the better conferences are further proof that recruits do not flock to teams in the better conferences.

[majerus mojo]

Please, not another BE thread. I'm going to respectfully disagree with bauman re: freshmen PT. If they get some, great. But these seniors didn't come this far to lose a little/any PT because we're looking to go 19-11 next year instead of 17-13. This is going to be the second consecutive 'best season in school history'. Let the big dogs eat.