Clock_Tower Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Please, not another BE thread. I'm going to respectfully disagree with bauman re: freshmen PT. If they get some, great. But these seniors didn't come this far to lose a little/any PT because we're looking to go 19-11 next year instead of 17-13. This is going to be the second consecutive 'best season in school history'. Let the big dogs eat. No player (including Seniors) should play 40 minutes per game. If our 3 Freshmen can play 5 to 12 minutes per game, they will supplement the Seniors and increase our chances of success and not be taking time away from our Seniors and putting our games at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Please, not another BE thread. I'm going to respectfully disagree with bauman re: freshmen PT. If they get some, great. But these seniors didn't come this far to lose a little/any PT because we're looking to go 19-11 next year instead of 17-13. This is going to be the second consecutive 'best season in school history'. Let the big dogs eat. I agree. The best players should play, irrespective of their class. If you get into a situation where you have a "lost season" and the only thing you have to play for is next year then by all means play the kids. But as it stands right now we are trying to be a great team and taking minutes from veteran players that are expected to perform better than the kids just for the sake of next year doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_davola Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Our freshman should see plenty of time on the floor this year. Will it be what MM, KM, etc were exposed to? Of course not. Looking at our OOC schedule and some of our A-10 shedule, I see us winning many games by big numbers and this will obviously feed into more playing time for the freshman. Mop up time is still better than no time. Also, like Clock Tower mentioned, playing all of our seniors 40 minutes a game is not going to happen and the freshman will play a significant role in keeping the games competitive and letting our big dogs rest and continue their domination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So I was off slightly on the level of interest/rating between the various classes. The point is the same. I hope those who think the talent level is going way up are correct. I just don't see it that way when comparing the current roster when they were seniors/being evaluated in high school and the seniors that will be here next year. I hope I'm wrong. Again, main point is Crews is going to have to do a spectacular job of coaching to keep up the level of success. Same way Majerus did. Obviously a move to the Big East would be a huge bump in the recruiting process. I don't think it needs to go way up and you were completely off, not just slightly. We're comparing it to the best Billiken class in many, many years. If it's an equal class and we follow that up with another equal class, I'll be estatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So by your scout standards Cassity was a 3 star recruit and the 39th best SF in the country. OK, thank you. I said to take those rankings for what you will. I'm certainly not wedded to any particular ranking system, but Scout happens to be one of the big recruiting services. Since ESPN changed its recruiting grades and evaluations, It's just the best support available to debunk your statement that the 2009 and 2010 classes were rated significantly higher than this one. At the moment, if nothing else, the 2014 class seems to be rated higher. But as I said before, I would be ecstatic if this class can replicate the success and talent of the 2010 class. Let me add a disclaimer. Recruiting rankings, particularly of players who are rated outside the Top 40, should be taken with a heavy grain of salt. That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have a bunch of 4-star recruits than 3-star recruits. Odds are that more 4-star rated recruits are going to become good players than 3-star recruits. But it also means that these rankings are not even close to perfect. Personally, I'm more interested in what schools have offered and/or are recruiting a player than the ratings, but those often go hand-in-hand. Btw, Kyle was offered a scholarship by Michigan. He was fairly well thought of outside of Carbondale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 No player (including Seniors) should play 40 minutes per game. If our 3 Freshmen can play 5 to 12 minutes per game, they will supplement the Seniors and increase our chances of success and not be taking time away from our Seniors and putting our games at risk. No one is suggesting 40 mins per game for anyone. Let's not go overboard. Whatever Crews decides on for the rotation and MPG, I'm all for. I imagine "next year" isn't on his radar at all when doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewsorlose Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I agree w/ Mojo. This team has 6.5 players in the rotation last year (Manning as .5), plus McBroom. That's a solid 8 for this year. Plenty of teams don't go deeper than 8 with regularity (not counting mop up time + extreme foul trouble). Given the new rules, I think there will be games that RA plays more, esp. if Glaze picks up two quick ones. Maybe MC and TL force the issue, but I can't see those two cracking the rotation. Maybe an injury will force the situation, maybe the team will deal with severe foul trouble, but those two will probably be getting better through practice, not close games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Looking ahead to next year, McBroom and Yacoubou are a potential starting duo and they bring experience. Also, GG will be an experienced senior starter next year. It looks like RA has a chance to be in the rotation this year, so he will enter next season with experience. Manning will be a senior next year, so he will have plenty of experience, plus Lancona and Crawford will bring various levels of playng experience. I think in the first three games this year, each of the freshmen have demonstrated flashes of productivity. Hopefully we will have more beatdowns which will give the current freshmen additional experience. I don't think worrying about playing time for next year's roster is a big deal. There will still be a core of experienced players to build around and for guys like RA, TL and MC... even if they don't get extensive playing time this year, doesn't mean they can't be big contributors next year. This is what happens at quality programs - which is what we are becoming. Some young talented players are going to have to wait a little. I think this is a difficult concept for some long-time Billiken fans to grasp. The era of guys like Ryan Luchtefeld, Luke Meyer, Chris Sloan and Dwayne Polk being 3 or 4 year starters is hopefully over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 We've "enjoyed" some teams over the years that were just unable to compete over the time of a full season. Some of that was talent, some of that was a depleted roster of talent to begin with, and some were injuries and attrition deals. But that was long ago and far away for the most part. If you look at what I will call a "college-aware" person's lifetime currently, they have probably an attention span that covers maybe a year or two before college, the four college years, and let's say a year or two after college for a span of 8 relevant years, total. Yes, some idiots (like me) go longer. But if you'll allow that, and say this mythical person "dropped" their edge after last Billiken season, their recent eight year span of Billiken basketball being relevant to them produced a record of 199 and 103 for a winning percentage of .659. I would say that even in Majerus' "down" years of 06-07 (16 - 15) and 10-11 (12 - 19), we were at least competitive and I'll attribute that to the coach. The worst year even had a silver lining -- our freshmen were getting some serious OJT. This timeframe encompassed three postseason bids (2 NCAA and 1 CBI) for almost a 50/50 return rate (4 bids in 8 years). The situation is akin to my buddy who is a Red Sox fan. At age 57, he's been a long-suffering Red Sox fan, much like long-suffering Cubs fans, until the first decade of the 00's. He cried when the Saux vanquished the curse of the Bambino. His son, who is only 18, couldn't understand why --- all of his life, the Saux have won and he now expects it. Different perspectives based on the same history. That's where us older fans come from. We've been fed the empty promises of one recruiting class after another. For perspective, starting with my enrollment at SLU in 1975 (I know I did not follow the Billikens prior to arrival), it took me until the New Mexico game in the NIT semi-finals in 1989-90 to be associated with my 199th Billiken win. That's 15 years -- almost twice as much time as the imaginary youngster above. My six years relevant with the program (not counting the two years prior to enrollment because I had no clue about NCAA basketball outside the Big Five until then) totaled 58 wins for the wonderful average of 9 wins per year. This "golden age" includes roy and BAB and bonbowich among others. One of the pubs said future success for SLU going forward relies solely on Crews' recruits. Duh ....... but pertinent. The only guy who has been able to identify the kinds of kids needed and had the right system to employ is dead. So recruiting will always be paramount. As for myself, the ratings don't matter. You can win with less than 3 star folks. I doubt the raters are really all that expert to get all things right. I am happy on two fronts right now: 1) we had kids happy to sign with us and wanting to sign early, and 2) we signed as the "normal' programs do, in the Fall. I have no cares about their ratings going forward. I'll worry about that at the appropriate time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I said to take those rankings for what you will. I'm certainly not wedded to any particular ranking system, but Scout happens to be one of the big recruiting services. Since ESPN changed its recruiting grades and evaluations, It's just the best support available to debunk your statement that the 2009 and 2010 classes were rated significantly higher than this one. At the moment, if nothing else, the 2014 class seems to be rated higher. But as I said before, I would be ecstatic if this class can replicate the success and talent of the 2010 class. Let me add a disclaimer. Recruiting rankings, particularly of players who are rated outside the Top 40, should be taken with a heavy grain of salt. That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have a bunch of 4-star recruits than 3-star recruits. Odds are that more 4-star rated recruits are going to become good players than 3-star recruits. But it also means that these rankings are not even close to perfect. Personally, I'm more interested in what schools have offered and/or are recruiting a player than the ratings, but those often go hand-in-hand. Btw, Kyle was offered a scholarship by Michigan. He was fairly well thought of outside of Carbondale. It seems like we are recruiting similar talent to what we were with Majerus, I don't think anyone could say it is significantly higher or lower than past years. It is obvious that with social media a lot more information can be found out about these guys and their recruitment and Pistol is proving that. This class is made up of mostly 3 star recruits (some slightly lower) rated outside of the top 150. Majerus may have gotten a couple of guys rated slightly higher than that (Thomspon and Kwamain may have been top 150), but he built the program on similarly rated guys. Just like Majerus' classes, some of these kids will exceed their recruiting rankings (Conklin, Evans, Jett, etc.) and some will not (Thompson, Smith, etc.). Crews and his staff has been able to continue signing full classes of solidly rated recruits and that is good to see. I do think it would be nice to start grabbing a 4 star recruit every once in awhile, but realize recruiting rankings are not the end all be all. With our recent success and improved facilities I don't think it is a stretch to think we should be getting some guys that are a little more highly sought after. Again, I am pleased with the class, but we didn't really win any significant recruiting battles against high major programs. Going back to Pistol's list from June we lost out on our initial offers (Macura, O'Mara, Larry Austin, Jordan Barnett, Malek Harris, Arogundade, Darius Austin, Welsh, McLane, Andre Walker, Hunter Ware), but we were making up for lost time with Crews being hired late in the game and needing to fill the 2013 class in the spring, so hopefully we hit on some of our initial targets this coming class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I don't want 4 and 5-star recruits unless they want to play D...normally they don't. I want bloodthirsty, starving, hardworking 3-stars willing to do whatever it takes to prove their worth. I want guys ripping people's heads off out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoyaBilliken Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I didn't get to see the SIU game or the exhibition. Can someone can a mini scouting report on Agbeko? Is he a physical player? Does he have legitimate height for a big? Etc Etc. I understand there isn't much to go on. Agbeko from what I have seen so far and according to a couple players is a guy that can just flat out get buckets on the low block and facing up, with a great first step and above average ballhandler. Elite rebounder who can defend multiple positions. Appears to be 2+ inches taller then Glaze but is listed at 6'7". Considered by many on the team as the best one on one player in the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 better one on one than Jett???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Reggie gets his first of many triple-doubles tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoyaBilliken Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If Doctor B is correct that the staff plans on using Agbeko as an instant contributor off the bench, I understand that to mean offensively. If this is so, a big being used in this manner would have to be a pretty good bucket getter if he is not being used as a 3 point specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think that if you asked JJ if he wants any part of guarding RA one on one, he will flat out say "hell no." Vice versa RA has the advantage there because he can guard bigs and smalls. His face up handle is ridiculous and that crossover can leave most defenders in la la land if you are thinking he is a normal big. Yeh...but we will never get to see that happen. Glad they are teammates....Rise of the Billikens continues tonight at the 'Fetz." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think that if you asked JJ if he wants any part of guarding RA one on one, he will flat out say "hell no." Vice versa RA has the advantage there because he can guard bigs and smalls. His face up handle is ridiculous and that crossover can leave most defenders in la la land if you are thinking he is a normal big. Yeh...but we will never get to see that happen. Glad they are teammates....Rise of the Billikens continues tonight at the 'Fetz." I saw Reggie beat Jesus in a game of turning water into wine. Nobody wants to take on Reggie one on one in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I saw Reggie beat Jesus in a game of turning water into wine. Nobody wants to take on Reggie one on one in anything. I have some ice cubes that beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I have some ice cubes that beg to differ. Pretty foolish on your part not to realize Reggie pisses Cipro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 As long as he uses his energy for Billiken business, I am all in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Are Ice Cubes the new Pay Stubs? And by the way wasn't the whole pay stubs thing some sort of challenge in lieu of fisticuffs? I'm old and forgot how that all got started. Also, why was Salina, KS involved in the discussion? Go Bills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Are Ice Cubes the new Pay Stubs? And by the way wasn't the whole pay stubs thing some sort of challenge in lieu of fisticuffs? I'm old and forgot how that all got started. Also, why was Salina, KS involved in the discussion? Go Bills! IIRC, that came from basketballcountry. He might have been my favorite troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Are Ice Cubes the new Pay Stubs? And by the way wasn't the whole pay stubs thing some sort of challenge in lieu of fisticuffs? I'm old and forgot how that all got started. Also, why was Salina, KS involved in the discussion? Go Bills!Salina is the meeting point between St. Louis and Denver. I believe either Jimbo or I suggested it because we were too lazy to go to St. Louis to show our PAYSTUBS.Bizzleboy, do your fancy research thingamujigga and get us the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Salina is the meeting point between St. Louis and Denver. I believe either Jimbo or I suggested it because we were too lazy to go to St. Louis to show our PAYSTUBS. I think it actually came up when Metz challenged you or Jimbo to a fight at Humphrey's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 IIRC, that came from basketballcountry. He might have been my favorite troll. Paystubs definitely came from bball country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.