Ranking Big East Candidates

[Taj79]

The Cap Center, home to the old Capitals and Washington Bullets and G-town was in Largo, Md., very close to the current site of Redskins' FedEx Field in Landover, MD. Jack Kent Cooke, before he died, tried to incorporate the town of Raljon, Md. --as the official site of FedEx Field. He named it for his sons Ralph and John.

The Verizon Center, aka the Phone Booth, is smack downtown DC between F and G streets. If you drew a perfect bull's eye of DC, this would be the cross hairs. Funny -- Redskins left town (RFK Stadium) while the others migrated back. I guess one could say the Largo/Landover sites are nearer to College Park but nothign in DC is ever " a few minutes" away.

I think the three teams moved back to the phone Booth for it's inaugural seaosn and the Caps changed their colors and emblem while the Bullets became the Wiz. Seems folks didn't want to associate bullets with DC given the instances of violent crime in the District.

[Clock_Tower]

The Cap Center, home to the old Capitals and Washington Bullets and G-town was in Largo, Md., very close to the current site of Redskins' FedEx Field in Landover, MD. Jack Kent Cooke, before he died, tried to incorporate the town of Raljon, Md. --as the official site of FedEx Field. He named it for his sons Ralph and John.

The Verizon Center, aka the Phone Booth, is smack downtown DC between F and G streets. If you drew a perfect bull's eye of DC, this would be the cross hairs. Funny -- Redskins left town (RFK Stadium) while the others migrated back. I guess one could say the Largo/Landover sites are nearer to College Park but nothign in DC is ever " a few minutes" away.

I think the three teams moved back to the phone Booth for it's inaugural seaosn and the Caps changed their colors and emblem while the Bullets became the Wiz. Seems folks didn't want to associate bullets with DC given the instances of violent crime in the District.

My mistake. When I lived in DC (12th and Independence and then off 5th Street by Union Station) the Caps and Bullets were both in Maryland and the Redskins were 5 blocks away from me. I knew the Redskins moved out of DC but did not realize the Verizon Center is in DC.

[SLU Kevin]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else.

Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense.

Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson.

Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focused conference, after the Big East.

[Quality Is Job 1]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else.

Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense.

Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson.

Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focused conference, after the Big East.

HECK NO

Dude, that's a Juan Bid league. Hands down.

[JettFlight5]

Where's 05 to determine the deadness of said horse?

[Taj79]

What a novel idea! And in his first post no less! Where has you been Billiken Kevin? Australia, maybe.

Welcome aboard.

[thetorch]

Lets just join the WCC. I'm up for some west coast trips.

[majerus mojo]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else.

Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense.

Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson.

Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focused conference, after the Big East.

Mods please delete this post. This is clearly the Metz.

[Billikenboy]

I think I want to think this one over before commenting. Interesting!

[cheeseman]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else.

Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense.

Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson.

Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focused conference, after the Big East.

UGH

[cgeldmacher]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else.

Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense.

Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson.

Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focused conference, after the Big East.

SLU Kevin,

Thank you for your first ever post. It is good to have you aboard, assuming you are not another poster disguising yourself just to stir up s#&t.

Both of the alternatives you described are a step down from the A-10, even in its current form. With the loss of Creighton, the MVC has one good team. That team doesn't have a track record of long term success that would cause us to believe that they will stay relevant more than just a season or so more (see Missouri State, SIU-Carbondale, Drake, Bradley, etc. as examples of teams in the MVC that had short term unsustainable runs and coaches that have fled as soon as a program starts to have success). SLU and Dayton moving to the MVC will give it two good teams (I'm not counting Dayton). We already have that in the A-10, but you also have to consider Duquesne, UMass, St. Joes, George Mason, and Richmond. All of these teams are better than the second tier of the MVC.

The new conference you suggested would have one good team, Us. The remainder of the teams would be lesser opponents that the A-10 or the MVC.

Whether we like the geography or not, the A-10 is the best spot for SLU right now. Success in the A-10 gives us our best shot at eventually getting into the Big East. A move to the either of those other conferences, IMO, would hurt those chances.

As a side note, and I know you were'nt talking about the past, but I believe that if SLU had gone into the MVC several years ago, we would not have attracked RM, we would have be looking at the possibility of three consecutive tournaments, and we would not be in consideration for the Big East.

[HoyaBilliken]

SLU continues to be the top candidate for Big East admission, but there's no indication that they ever plan to move beyond 10 teams. Yet remaining as a geographic outlier in the A10 is a lousy option and leaves our teams at a permanent disadvantage, with long road trips for 100% of away games and higher travel expenses than anyone else. Moving back to the MVC would be a better option than staying put. If Dayton came along to bring the MVC to 12, the resulting league would be as good or better than the A10. And the logistics would make sense. Alternatively, we could form a new conference of private institutions. SLU, Dayton, Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Detroit, Valparaiso, Oral Roberts, Belmont. Everyone would put of a grant of rights so no one can conference hop after joining. This would be an NCAA multi bid league and it would make geographic sense for SLU and everyone else. No longer would we need to make long road trips only to play the Bonnies, Fordham, Rhode Island or Davidson. Shades of the MCC to be sure, but still better than the status quo. In time this could become the #2 basketball-focuserd conference, after the Big East.

WOW.......WHAT?

[Pistol]

Take it easy on SLU Kevin, guys. He clearly has not been keeping up with college basketball for the past 50 or so years.

[SLU Kevin]

Conventional wisdom says that SLU is the next school invited to the Big East and I certainly hope that comes to pass. But conventional wisdom said that Missouri would get into the Big 10 ahead of Nebraska, Louisville into the Big 12 ahead of West Virginia and SLU into the Big East ahead of Creighton. The Big East could hold at 10 or do something unexpected, like add Gonzaga plus St Mary's or BYU.

Future A10 member Davidson dropped their home opener to Wisconsin Milwaukee. U-Mass is out the door as soon as there's an opening in the AAC, and their replacement will have to be someone that the A10 previously passed over in order to snap up Davidson. VCU's been great under Shaka Smart, but what happens if his lifelong commitment to VCU is no greater than Brad Steven's commitment to Butler? As the A10 becomes a less attractive home for SLU, and a Big East future is questionable, it's interesting to at least consider other possibilities.

Maybe the Big 12 is the answer. There is no longer any chance that the Big 12 can nab Florida St. and Clemson, but there are recent rumblings of Cincinnati joining. Previously BYU and the Big 12 failed to reach an agreement. But BYU has found a home for their Olympic sports (WCC); and as most BCS conferences are moving to 9 league football games, BYU will find it difficult to schedule football as an independent. A football-only Big 12 membership for BYU (one sport where BYU's prohibition on Sunday games is a non-issue) could be coupled with an Olympics sports membership for SLU.

SLU would certainly have a great draw for its conference home games.

[waldo027]

Any brand new poster who immediately posts about a controversial topic, is almost certainly an old poster and a troll.

[Deutschkind]

Conventional wisdom says that SLU is the next school invited to the Big East and I certainly hope that comes to pass. But conventional wisdom said that Missouri would get into the Big 10 ahead of Nebraska, Louisville into the Big 12 ahead of West Virginia and SLU into the Big East ahead of Creighton. The Big East could hold at 10 or do something unexpected, like add Gonzaga plus St Mary's or BYU.

Coming from Big Ten country, I would never have put Mizzou ahead of Nebraska. For the Big Ten options A - L always was Notre Dame. If they still won't join, then I guess Nebraska. From the beginning of realignment rumors, it was always Nebraska. The only people I heard about a possible Mizzou move to the Big Ten were from Missouri. Can't say that the SEC was a bad landing spot though....

[SLU Kevin]

Deutschkind, there's no question that the Big 10 kept open their twelfth slot for a long time in the hopes of getting Notre Dame. But when they finally made their choice in 2010, Missouri seemed like a better option than Nebraska in most regards:

• Better academics (Missouri has retained their AAU accreditation; Nebraska has lost theirs)
• About 50% bigger (more students, more alums)
• Better aligned with the Big 10's stated "southern expansion" strategy
• Closer fit geographically
• Existing Big 10 rivalry (Missouri-Illinois)
• Much better basketball program
• Better overall in most Olympic sports
• Much better BTN market (The state of Missouri has triple the population of Nebraska)
• And Mizzou was really, really eager

Nebraska had the better football "brand", but Missouri had/has the better program. Maybe Missouri's PR campaign backfired and the caused the Big 10 to skip over them; but if the Big 10 had a "do over" option today, they might make a different choice.

Anyway, my point is that conference expansion often takes unexpected turns. SLU is the best candidate for the Big East and I hope they get there, but only time will tell.

[Deutschkind]

Geez, on paper that does sound pretty great. I never got the feeling back then, though, that the Big Ten was really interested. It kind of felt like UConn trying to woo the ACC.

Although:

I don't know about the ranking then, but Mizzou is at 97 now and UNL at 101 which is only one spot lower because of ties. Not much different. I'm interested in knowing what caused UNL to lose their accrediation.

I've never heard of the "southern expansion" strategy, though it does make sense to me. I've only heard of the eastern, which obviously they did even though I'm not impressed with Maryland or Rutgers.

The geography is not that different, both would be the far western edge, although Columbia would be closer to Champaign and Iowa City than Lincoln is to Iowa City and the Twin Cities

And no one cares about basketball or Olympic sports. That's been obvious in realignment

Lastly, apparently the market didn't factor in that much, kind of like St. Louis not being enough to get in the first round of the Big East. That's worrisome.

[brianstl]

Mizzou lucked out by getting in the SEC. It is far better situation long term for many reason. The Big 10 is loaded with schools in states on the decline and a shrinking share of the population.

[Clock_Tower]

Deutschkind, there's no question that the Big 10 kept open their twelfth slot for a long time in the hopes of getting Notre Dame. But when they finally made their choice in 2010, Missouri seemed like a better option than Nebraska in most regards:

• Better academics (Missouri has retained their AAU accreditation; Nebraska has lost theirs)
• About 50% bigger (more students, more alums)
• Better aligned with the Big 10's stated "southern expansion" strategy
• Closer fit geographically
• Existing Big 10 rivalry (Missouri-Illinois)
• Much better basketball program
• Better overall in most Olympic sports
• Much better BTN market (The state of Missouri has triple the population of Nebraska)
• And Mizzou was really, really eager

Nebraska had the better football "brand", but Missouri had/has the better program. Maybe Missouri's PR campaign backfired and the caused the Big 10 to skip over them; but if the Big 10 had a "do over" option today, they might make a different choice.

Anyway, my point is that conference expansion often takes unexpected turns. SLU is the best candidate for the Big East and I hope they get there, but only time will tell.

Kevin.

No doubt you are providing some arguments for your positions, but not all arguments carry equal weight.

First, SLU has no business being the Valley for the reasons previously stated to you by others as well as due to the other schools being second and third tier public institutions. Their missions, philosophies, funding mechanisms, budgets, academics, etc. are just not the same as ours and never will be. Also, sustained success is simply not possible in the Valley in that the money, exposure, TV contracts and prestige will also be on the flagship schools (Illinois) and not SIU Carbondale. See Bruce Weber leaving SIUC for the Illini among many examples. Same can be said for MO State and Mizzou. Just look at Spoon leaving MO State for SLU.

Second, basketball and the Olympic sports does not matter when we talk new conferences. Only football matters. See Kansas and what their basketball legacy has done for them in conference discussions. Also, when talking about Olympic sports, believe you have over-inflated opinions of Mizzou's records in non-football and non-men's basketball. Last I checked, their baseball and softball have had some recent success but that's about it. Nebraska has actually had the stronger sports program over Mizzou -- just not in men's basketball.

Third, you're obviously a geography is really important type of guy in your comments about SLU and the A10 v. the Valley and that Mizzou should have been asked to join the B10, but again, has proven to not be that great of a factor.

Fourth, TV markets are important, and yes St. Louis and KC have bigger markets than Lincoln and ... (I cannot think of another Nebraska city!!) but as you mentioned (and hit the nail on the head) Nebraska has had a brand name for football dating back over 50 years and sports fans anywhere in the country will watch Nebraska football. These same fans have not tuned in to watch Mizzou games.

Fifth, and as to academics, again that that proven to be less important, Nebraska did make huge promises to the B10. Whether or not they lived up to these promises (or have the ability to live up to these promises) is another story.

[HoyaBilliken]

Deutschkind, there's no question that the Big 10 kept open their twelfth slot for a long time in the hopes of getting Notre Dame. But when they finally made their choice in 2010, Missouri seemed like a better option than Nebraska in most regards:

• Better academics (Missouri has retained their AAU accreditation; Nebraska has lost theirs)
• About 50% bigger (more students, more alums)
• Better aligned with the Big 10's stated "southern expansion" strategy
• Closer fit geographically
• Existing Big 10 rivalry (Missouri-Illinois)
• Much better basketball program
• Better overall in most Olympic sports
• Much better BTN market (The state of Missouri has triple the population of Nebraska)
• And Mizzou was really, really eager

Nebraska had the better football "brand", but Missouri had/has the better program. Maybe Missouri's PR campaign backfired and the caused the Big 10 to skip over them; but if the Big 10 had a "do over" option today, they might make a different choice.

Anyway, my point is that conference expansion often takes unexpected turns. SLU is the best candidate for the Big East and I hope they get there, but only time will tell.

FOLKS, STOP FEEDING KEVIN. HE WILL STARVE TO DEATH AND GO AWAY

[rgbilliken]

Something to keep in mind on Nebraska, and this applies to Creighton getting into the big East before us, as well: other than creighton and Nebraska, the state has no other teams to speak of. Although the market may be small, no one is distracted by baseball during college football; no one is distracted by hockey or NFL when creighton games are on. Basically the entire 1 million metro area of Omaha is an extremely dedicated fan base for both teams because they've got nothing else.

[Billiken Rich]

You know if we could've gotten Ahearn and Harrelson and joined the Valley and hired Gregory and kept Porter, shoulda done everything to keep Porter, we'd be in the Big East today.....woulda' coulda' shoulda'

[Bay Area Billiken]

Big East Expansion Candidates:

#1 (#11) SLU

#2 (#12) Anyone, as long as SLU is #1.

VCU fans do seem to feel the need to be cheerleaders/marketers/spin doctors for that program. Except many of their posts at HolyLandofHoops.net conveniently omit that SLU beat VCU not once, but twice, last season.

[Cowboy]

Big East Expansion Candidates:

#1 (#11) SLU

#2 (#12) Anyone, as long as SLU is #1.

VCU fans do seem to feel the need to be cheerleaders/marketers/spin doctors for that program. Except many of their posts at HolyLandofHoops.net conveniently omit that SLU beat VCU not once, but twice, last season.

-right, last season, let's stop looking in the rear view mirror and do it THIS season