Student dies after fall from Marchetti East

[brianstl]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-grade...m-dorm-balcony/

[kshoe]

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-grade...m-dorm-balcony/

That is awful.

I lived in those towers for a year and always thought it possible that someone could fall from one of those balcanies during a party or something. The story with the resident assistant was a little weird but considering it happened at 3 AM and there was a disturbance involved it seems posible alchohol or drugs were involved.

[redbirdfan]

That is awful.

I lived in those towers for a year and always thought it possible that someone could fall from one of those balcanies during a party or something. The story with the resident assistant was a little weird but considering it happened at 3 AM and there was a disturbance involved it seems posible alchohol or drugs were involved.

Terrible and tragic story! My Daughter lived in those apartments and the balcony and sliding glass doors were located in the common area, NOT the bedrooms! Sounds a bit strange to me, but maybe some of the units are set up different!

[bhayes520]

I lived in Marchetti East and in Marchetti West at different points, and I don't remember any of the rooms being set up so that a balcony entrance was accessible from the bedroom. Some of the "convertible" units have a sliding wooden divider that is used to separate the bedroom area from the common area, since there is no real wall between them, but even in those the sliding glass door was on the common area side.

Nonetheless I was sorry to hear about this today. Absolutely tragic no matter the cause.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Just terrible.

I too lived in the Marchetti Towers during my time at SLU, one year in East (9th floor) and the next year in West (12th floor). While the railings on those balconies was may not necessarily be really high, I still think that in order to clear them, some sort of force or effort must have been involved. I wouldn't think they'd be the kind of things that you could just trip and fall over.

I also concur with the comments that the balconies in those apartments were attached to the living/common rooms, not the bedrooms. During my time living in those buildings I saw close to if not every design of apartment they had; 2 bedrooms, 1 bedroom (various styles of those), studios, and they all had the balcony attached to the living room. This may have been made ambiguous due to poor writing on the part of the writer of the article.

[davidnark]

My best guess based upon the story and my knowledge of the buildings is that the kid attempted to climb over to the adjoining apartment's balcony in order to avoid the RA. He was probably tipsy and a little loud from some early semester partying, which is quite the norm. It is a terrible tragedy.

[House]

I am surprised everyone is getting so hung upon where the balcony is. When I read it, I interpreted the writer as simply making the mistake of using "room" instead of "apartment". The Post-Dispatch is full of mistakes on a daily basis, so I guess I've just learned to read what I think they meant instead of what they actually wrote. Sad, but true.

That being said, clearly there is more to this story. It is either not yet known or is not yet able to be proved by the proper authorities. The truth will come out eventually.

[Quality Is Job 1]

It is a tragedy, but what I want to know is, If it was in the middle of the night and someone is complaining about a noise disturbance, how could the victim's roommate manage to "appear to be sleeping" in the same apartment as the ruckus?

I suspect the railings of all of the balconies will be taller and harder to climb over by the end of the school year.

However, the real problem may never be addressed. College campuses shouldn't allow drinking for students under 21 (or maybe they should be dry, period).

[davidnark]

However, the real problem may never be addressed. College campuses shouldn't allow drinking for students under 21 (or maybe they should be dry, period).

I would guess well over half of the students on campus drinks regularly. I would also guess little, if any, of this drinking takes place at university events or out in the open. Making a campus "dry" does not prevent drinking. I had siblings at MU and IU, both of which were "dry" campuses with unimaginable amounts of drinking. I believe a legitimate argument can be made that the better approach is to openly permit the drinking so that you can regulate and control it rather than drive it off campus or behind closed doors to settings in which it won't be monitored.

[bills10]

SLU does have strict rules against drinking under the age of 21, hence trying to escape from the RA.

[moytoy12]

It is a tragedy, but what I want to know is, If it was in the middle of the night and someone is complaining about a noise disturbance, how could the victim's roommate manage to "appear to be sleeping" in the same apartment as the ruckus?

Maybe the roommate had passed out.

However, the real problem may never be addressed. College campuses shouldn't allow drinking for students under 21 (or maybe they should be dry, period).

Ugh...sigh.

[redbirdfan]

I would guess well over half of the students on campus drinks regularly. I would also guess little, if any, of this drinking takes place at university events or out in the open. Making a campus "dry" does not prevent drinking. I had siblings at MU and IU, both of which were "dry" campuses with unimaginable amounts of drinking. I believe a legitimate argument can be made that the better approach is to openly permit the drinking so that you can regulate and control it rather than drive it off campus or behind closed doors to settings in which it won't be monitored.

I have been to many events at SLU and I have seen more than my fair share of drunk underclassmen-especially at Soccer and Basketball games. I think underage drinking is a bigger problem than SLU realizes, as many of the RA's and dorm personnel that my kids have encountered, tend to turn their cheeks the other way when it comes to drinking. It is also far too easy for them to enter and drink at the local hangouts. I don't think making the campus "dry" would help. I think that they would only loose students, which is a sad testament to today's society!

[Pistol]

I have been to many events at SLU and I have seen more than my fair share of drunk underclassmen-especially at Soccer and Basketball games. I think underage drinking is a bigger problem than SLU realizes, as many of the RA's and dorm personnel that my kids have encountered, tend to turn their cheeks the other way when it comes to drinking. It is also far too easy for them to enter and drink at the local hangouts. I don't think making the campus "dry" would help. I think that they would only loose students, which is a sad testament to today's society!

All that making the campus dry would do is create a larger number of citations for students, and for the campus police and resident administrators to deal with. I've been to enough dry campuses to know that it's a complete sham and it just makes the students get more creative in ways around it, and causes an unnecessary amount of trouble when people get caught.

Students who are 21 should have the same rights on campus they have everywhere else. Students under 21 should have the risks of seeking out alcohol and drinking made clear to them, but with the knowledge that they're safer on campus than away from it. It seems to me that it should be in a school's interest to make clear to students that while they don't encourage partying, they'd rather underage students not take their partying off campus and potentially get into way more trouble than if it were confined to campus.

That said, the details on this one are still to sketchy to be sure what happened. Yes, alcohol was probably involved but we don't know for sure yet. But if it was about 3:00 AM (closing time in St. Louis), there was a noise complaint on this kid, and an RA had to ask him to get in his apartment, all signs so far point to alcohol being a factor. But there also could be a lot of things we don't know about this.

I feel awful for this kid, his family, and the students. Good people make bad decisions once in a while. I just don't want the questions surrounding this incident to overshadow the fact that a bright young kid lost his life and I hope he's remembered for who he was rather than having an example made of him.

[cheeseman]

My kids both attended MU which is as someone pointed out a "dry" campus. All I ever thought that designation did was cause kids to go off campus and drink thus putting them on the road in cars which made no sense to me. There is even a push among some college presidents to have the drinking age lower - I read this some place sorry I can not remember where - basically because they spend so much time wasted and costs trying to police this kind of thing even though they know they are nothing more than bailing the boatt out with a thimble actions. The "dry" campus designation is simply a PR tool to impress parents looking for some false sense of security and is just a joke. Drinking among college age students is a problem but the solution is not to make up silly bans but to try to educate kids on the perils. As far as the railings on the balconies go - I am sure they meet City code requirements or the Towers would not be allowed to be inhabited. This kid tried to do something stupid like one of the posters said - climbing over it to escape the RA. My guess is he may have done something like this before or others have but it did not work this time. Sad thing to have happen and my heart goes out to his parents.

[DoctorB]

This is an unspeakable tragedy, to say the least.

Redbirdfan and others: I am pretty sure that SLU, and every other university, understands very well this problem of drinking underage, not to mention widespread binge drinking. Last I heard, up to 40% or more of college students today admit to regular binge drinking (more than once a week). That's a very serious problem.

It is symptomatic of much bigger problems in today's college culture, as is 'hooking up' culture (google it if you are over 30)--a related addictive behavior that is rampant. But really, it is not that SLU is not aware of these things, or underestimates them. The real problem is that either nobody knows what to do about it, or else for PR's sake we prefer to live in denial and not assert the necessary political and/or moral will to try and address it.

Personally, I have no idea how to address these growing problems, and I do not know anyone here at SLU who does. I certainly do not get the impression that "Student Life"--which is the administrative area at SLU that supposedly is best positioned to deal with them-- has the slightest idea either. Campus Ministry? Well -- yes, it has some influence. On a few students. But very little influence on the roughly 40% who are either being well-trained in these destructive, addictive behaviors, or are themselves now the master-teachers.

But seriously--I doubt if anyone on here can provide any substantive solutions to these glaring problems, problems that I believe we all know about but would rather not discuss in public. If you do, let us know -- and let Kent Porterfield know too.

[Box and Won]

So sad. He sounded like an extremely bright young man - pre-med scholar. I lost my best friend in a freak accident our sophomore year of college, and the thought of someone with such a bright future not being able to realize that future is absolutely heartbreaking.

[jimbofive]

It is symptomatic of much bigger problems in today's college culture, as is 'hooking up' culture (google it if you are over 30)--a related addictive behavior that is rampant.

I'll have no badmouthing of "hooking up". If you're not married, you should be "hooking up".

But seriously--I doubt if anyone on here can provide any substantive solutions to these glaring problems, problems that I believe we all know about but would rather not discuss in public. If you do, let us know -- and let Kent Porterfield know too.

The solution is simple. A cellular device implanted at the base of the brain stem. Government monitored. Whenever someone starts "hooking up" (increased blood flow to the genitals, increased salivation) or has more than a mouthful of mouthwash enter their system, ZAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPP!!! Then good ol' Pavlov takes the reins and we all fall in line. Then ###### gets BORRRRING. Let's not forget that we're all animals and that dumb/unlucky animals die all the time. I saw a squirrel run straight into the side of someone's tire yesterday and he got his damn head spun off. I felt bad for a second, but then I thought, "hey, there's about 377 million squirrels that DIDN'T just run into a tire, so why should we disallow squirrels from partying in the road?" I'll step off my soapbox now and go have a drink at 9:26 in the morning. Because it's FRIDAY.

(Let it be known that I wasn't singling out your post DoctorB, it was just the easiest one to humorously attack. Hence my attack.)

Post-script. Sorry that the kid died. My buddy used to play spider monkey on those balconies. I'm glad he didn't die.

[Clock_Tower]

In honor of the late, great Jim White, "Save me from the good people!!"

Nice to see the prohibition group is alive and well. Without any proof that alcohol is involved, some are suggesting SLU become a dry campus. I thought it already was. Certainly less drinking going on than when I went to SLU. BTW, Doc, just yesterday there was a report that young kids on campuses nationwide are binge drinking less and using less drugs. Where is the proof that underage drinking is somehow getting worse?? Even if alcohol is involved, what happened to personal responsibility?

On a related note, I too have been to "dry campuses." In particular, I stayed a weekend with a friend at his frat house at Indiana U where they set up bottle after bottle of hard liquor in one student's room (his room) and soda drinks in the main room. If the party were busted, the student's room would be shut and locked and I was told that campus police could not search individual rooms where students live. Instead of kegs of beer where sometimes student drinked is slowed by bloated stomachs after 15 beers are drunk, hard liquor disguised in Coca Cola and extra-spiked punch bowls for the invited girls on these "dry campuses" IMO leads to many more problems than beer. Banning alcohol on campus and thereby forcing kids to get in cars to drive to off-campus bars likewise cause many more problems.

Oh well ... let's just ban all alcohol and, just to be safe, put cages on all balconies - even first floor units b/c we don't want any sprained ankles.

[Pistol]

In honor of the late, great Jim White, "Save me from the good people!!"

Nice to see the prohibition group is alive and well. Without any proof that alcohol is involved, some are suggesting SLU become a dry campus. I thought it already was. Certainly less drinking going on than when I went to SLU. BTW, Doc, just yesterday there was a report that young kids on campuses nationwide are binge drinking less and using less drugs. Where is the proof that underage drinking is somehow getting worse?? Even if alcohol is involved, what happened to personal responsibility?

On a related note, I too have been to "dry campuses." In particular, I stayed a weekend with a friend at his frat house at Indiana U where they set up bottle after bottle of hard liquor in one student's room (his room) and soda drinks in the main room. If the party were busted, the student's room would be shut and locked and I was told that campus police could not search individual rooms where students live. Instead of kegs of beer where sometimes student drinked is slowed by bloated stomachs after 15 beers are drunk, hard liquor disguised in Coca Cola and extra-spiked punch bowls for the invited girls on these "dry campuses" IMO leads to many more problems than beer. Banning alcohol on campus and thereby forcing kids to get in cars to drive to off-campus bars likewise cause many more problems.

Oh well ... let's just ban all alcohol and, just to be safe, put cages on all balconies - even first floor units b/c we don't want any sprained ankles.

I went to a frat party at IU my freshman year during their Little 500 weekend. The dry campus rules there make it a joke. Apparently the dean's staff would drive around to the frat houses to make sure there weren't parties going on all weekend. So the frats would just confine the parties to back yards, basements, or in the case of the one I was at, courtyards. When the car would stop in front of their house, the pledges watching would signal the other guys and they'd have a "shutdown." The shutdown basically meant that a flood light was turned off, all cups of jungle juice (only drink served) were quickly thrown in the garbage, and the snack bar-style counter where drinks were served slammed the overhead gate shut. And then everyone had to be silent and go inside. Like I said before, all the dry campus rules do is cause college kids, the most creative people on earth, to find ways around it. Oh, and drink more in short spans of time off campus.

SLU is not a dry campus. They make it clear that people 21 and over can drink on campus, but serving to minors can get you in trouble, certain types of containers are banned (kegs in particular, mostly because they damage floors and walls), and no empty alcohol bottles are allowed to be kept (a.k.a. 'alcohol trophies'). SLU also has a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol. I know the name has changed about 4 times in the past 8 years, so I don't know what its current name is.

[jimbofive]

SLU also has a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol. I know the name has changed about 4 times in the past 8 years, so I don't know what its current name is.

It was the best when it was Wackadoo's. We would go and underage drink the ###### out of that place. Because it was COLLEGE. And college isn't real. THE END.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I'll have no badmouthing of "hooking up". If you're not married, you should be "hooking up".

That's so false!

[SluSignGuy]

My thoughts are with the student's family. And I am glad the conversation on this topic has remained fairly civil, but I just want to say in advance I will be watching this thread closely and hope that the conversation does not become too political or uncivil.

Apologies if this moderation warning was unnecessary.

[Taj79]

In 1977, four idiots from my floor hung off the top of Griesedieck with their pants around their ankles to moon the Quad during Spring Fever. I was jumping around going "oh Jesus, oh Jesus" trying to figure out where to run when the first body fell. Alcohol was involved. We all lived and I saw three of them last fall at the SLU Homecoming. They didn't call 16G "The Psycho Ward" for nothing.

Another time, while entertaining a young lady, or "hooking up" as it is today, my window overlooking the Quad flew open and not one, not two, not three but four guys walked in on me and my "date." Did I say I was on the 16th floor? I'm pretty sure alcohol and maybe even a little dope was involved in that one. As far as I know, all four are alive today.

This kid reminds me of a kid we had in the late 70's, guy by the name of Amir. Don't recall the race or religion, call it sub-Asian continent, maybe Indian. Same as this kid, bright beyond belief. Went to a Cardinals game at then-new Busch Stadium and, while walking down the ramps after the game, skunked up on $8 Buds, decided to jump from one ramp across to the other. Missed. Lived, but messed up forever.

Alcohol and collegiate stupidity have been alive and well on college campuses for years. At our frat reunion, about seven of us looked at each other and asked "do you believe we made 50? We're still alive." I just had one graduate and another is a sophomore. Both girls. The oldest first had alcohol under parents supervision as a 16-year-old at a Cancun all-inclusive. The youngest puked her guts out, same Cancun, five years after that. I got to hold her poneytail out of the spray zone in the Zonas de Cocodriles. A fond, fond memory. But in both cases, the illusion of alcohol was busted in my opinion. Both girls, in my mind, can handle it and do not binge. Call me lucky.

In each instance, my wife and I have taught responsibility --- for your actions but more importantly, the consequences. Short of finals week. a kid up and making noise at 3 in the morning means something. Something usually not good. Why one kid falls and all the others don't === I don't know. This this same thing at High Point University in my daughter's freshman year. He fell four stories and landed in pine needles. Broke both legs but lived. He was a freshman and drunk as well. The girl he was taking up to the roof thought better of it when she saw his ass go flying by on the downward leg. She left and was never identified.

I feel bad for the parents but anyone with kids is not immune to it no matter the "dry" rules or not.

[slulaw09]

I hate to say it, but SLU's regulation of drinking is out of control. There are conspiracy theorists in all of us, but this kid probably had no record, no reason to worry about a simple complain, and allowed panic to set in, thinking he couldn't live with his parents with this on his record. Totally a way of thought for these young Indian children, who grow up in very conservative households. I lived with a first-gen Indian SLU Law student and he got a DUI and for a week just locked himself in his room out of shame. I thought he was going to kill himself...thank God he didn't. I'm sure this was handled inappropriately by our lovely DPS people and ResLife, who are just atrocious in handling these situations. They need to know the track record of these kids before bringing in a sqaudron of Murtaughs and Hightowers to bust these kids. If it's a repeat situation, bring the DPS. If it's a kid who has kept his nose clean, just give him/her a warning. This is unacceptable and totally on the hands of SLU and ResLife.

[Hawk]

I hate to say it, but SLU's regulation of drinking is out of control. There are conspiracy theorists in all of us, but this kid probably had no record, no reason to worry about a simple complain, and allowed panic to set in, thinking he couldn't live with his parents with this on his record. Totally a way of thought for these young Indian children, who grow up in very conservative households. I lived with a first-gen Indian SLU Law student and he got a DUI and for a week just locked himself in his room out of shame. I thought he was going to kill himself...thank God he didn't. I'm sure this was handled inappropriately by our lovely DPS people and ResLife, who are just atrocious in handling these situations. They need to know the track record of these kids before bringing in a sqaudron of Murtaughs and Hightowers to bust these kids. If it's a repeat situation, bring the DPS. If it's a kid who has kept his nose clean, just give him/her a warning. This is unacceptable and totally on the hands of SLU and ResLife.

It really depends on the situation and RA in charge of the floor. Freshman year I was in my friends room on Marti Gras Weekend and everyone in there was doing shots, music got loud and we had >20 people in there (we were asking for it). Our RA came and was going to write us all up but talked to us first and decided not to. To anyone walking by it would look like we had gotten written up and he told us not to spread it around. Had it been a different RA, all of us would have been written up, but since he knew all of us and that we hadn't been in trouble before, he didn't throw the book at us. A month or so later the same friends were in the same room (I wasn't this time, but I was on the floor) and they all got written up for drinking.

I don't see how bringing DPS would be better. In hierarchy of authority figures, a peer would be better than a 'police' officer. I also think it would be impossible to know every kids track record before going into a room to bust something up. Besides the logistics of trying to know about the kid whose room they are going into, you also don't know how many people are in the room, or who is in the room. What if kid A is a nice kid who had never did anything prior is partying is kid B's room, and kid B is a known partier?