Mobile-iken Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/6445192.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 out of Mizzou's latest misfortune. I'm so shocked...lol By the way, nothing will come of this. This is much to do about nothing. Jessica Bunge will not be able to provide proof of any money that was passed along to Ricky Clemons. Unlike what others have intimated on this board, she does have a potential ax to grind with Mizzou. For one, I'm sure she was very displeased with how the athletic department dealt with this assault case. The fact that Ricky Clemons only got a one-game suspension surely upset her. The fact that it appeared that Mizzou was bending over backwards to placate Ricky surely rubbed her the wrong way. Am I missing something, but didn't the prosecutor state that Jessica specifically implicated Lane Odom as the person who gave Ricky money. Then Jessica changes her story during a phone interview with the Post saying that it was not Lane, but an unspecified member of the Mizzou athletic program who gave Ricky the money. That certainly has to raise the questions about the truthfulness of her story. Consistency is certainly a hallmark to determining whether to believe a person or not. Having said all that, I am certainly disturbed by Quin and his staff's actions. I'm definitely not saying they're innocent parties in this. I wouldn't be shocked if Ricky did receive improper benefits, but I find it hard to believe that the NCAA will be able to prove it without Ricky being cooperative. And I just don't see Ricky saying anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Ricky will probably be loyal to whomever has the largest cash handout. So keep the funds flowing and all will be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 in terms of actual punishment handed out, (Although it would not be beyond the NCAA to come down harshly on Mizzou for the shoes and clothing not because those in themselves are serious but because they believe, yet can't prove, Bunges allegations) but the fact that someone who obviously has intimate knowledge of the prgram and players says these things should scare the hell out of Mizzou fans. Here's my thing with Bunge, when she gave this deposition she was trying to win a court case against Rickey. The last thing she wanted to do is make up some stories about Quin Snyder and Lane odom that the defense team could later use to show that she was a liar. And because these stories did little to improve her case she has no reason to lie. She may have been mad at the Mizzou Atheltic Dept. but would you risk Clemmons going free just to get in a jab or two at Quin? If her goal was to bring down Mizzou she would have shceduled a press conference the day after he pleaded guilty and said what she knew. Its a sad day when fans portray this abuse victim as some sort of criminal in the whole process. As for the Lane Odom thing. She says she never told the prosecutor it was Lane Odom. It sounds to me like he was fishing (he used the words "what if I told you Rickey received cash from Lane" instead of "she claims Rickey received it from Lane." So far this girl has been nothing but truthful in the happenings so I for one believe her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 That's how I read it too, kshoe. Bunge never fingered Lane Odom as the money-giver in her deposition or in the Post Dispatch interview. However, if anybody on the coaching staff knew where the money came from it would be Odom, since he was Clemons' principal mentor. That's the line of questioning Crane should have followed, instead of accusing Odom directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Who paid for Clemons' summer school classes before he enrolled at Mizzou? He wasn't on scholarship at those schools and it would seem difficult for a homeless kid to be able to pay for those classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 I just find it all very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I don't think the NCAA has to prove these things beyond a reasonable doubt to hand out penalties. If, for instance, Clemmons steps forward and confirms the story, I would think the NCAA would be very interested. No telling who else might come forward. It wouldn't take too much to figure out that Clemmons was spending money around town without any plausible legimate source for obtaining that money. Would that be enough? It's a good question, actually. But at this point I wouldn't dismiss any of this as much ado about nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 but it sounds to me like the Boone County prosecutor has it in for the Mizzery hoops program. Why would he be pursuing a line of questions that have little to do with the charge of assault, i.e. is it pertinent to the assault charges against Clemons to ask the victim where he get his clothes and spending money from? I know depositions are "no holds barred" proceedings but it appears the prosecutor was out to prove more than just a crime against Ricky Clemons. I don't want to sound sympathetic at all toward Pretty Q and his band of thieves, but you have to admit this may be a witch hunt. Nark, you're a lawyer, what's the deal here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 aj, My recall is that RC pleaded guilty to a lesser charge to keep the original assault charges from going to trial. Can you see a scenario that someone or several in RC's camp did not want the original matter to go to trial? Can you see a scenario that someone or several in RC's camp did not want to see RC or the victim answering the same or similar questions that the prosecuting attorney raised in the depositions? Oh my, if RC ever sings.....! Taking short cuts to success certainly has its risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I've never worked on a criminal matter, but it sounds like the lawyer was trying to obtain details regarding the relationship between Bunge and Ricky (e.g., they spent lots of time together, knew each other's secrets, etc.). There is not an obvious tie between Clemmons obtaining illegal cash and gifts from his coaches and Clemmons beating up his girlfriend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 If I ma not mistaken, in an interview questioning this story about the cash and who, Crane was asked if Bunge fingered Odom.....and his response ought to make AJ worry. "all our questions were based on facts obtained in our investigation" I read this as saying that they have other records or perhaps witnesses fingering Odom. Now why would the NCAA not be able to find out this information.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I agree with you that the standard is less than beyond a reasonable doubt-- I would think it's closer to preponderance of the evidence. The lessened burden can certainly be problematic (ask OJ). I find it even more troubling that the University officials would continue such an aggressive support of this "student" (after his arrest) in light of this type of such questionable activities surrounding his maintenance. Pick your own analogy: waving a red cape at a bull, bloody meat to a shark, etc. It seems Mizzou opened itself to NCAA scrutiny, which makes this the more puzzling. Did the University take a brash approach or is this a matter of seemingly reckless conduct? In any event, the Conley episode coupled with this is hardly much ado about nothing. A pattern seems to be forming, and it's not a particularly good one. I don't wish Mizzou any ill, but I certainly would like it if they would do some real self assessment and come clean. With the State having such budget problems, I'd hate to see our tax dollars used to pay NCAA penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Jay Randolph on KFNS has been saying for sometime now that he has sources which he believes as having some knowledge that there is more to come from the Ricky Clemons matter that will cause trouble for the BB program. He has never said who this source is nor has he made a big deal of it other just to mention it once in awhile - he did mention it again today. I also find it interesting that he has been a staunch supporter of Quinn and he is now speaking less favorable about Quinn now - no more benefit of the doubt attitude and more a lets just wait and see what happens. I agree - this could be more than just another minor infraction. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Forget the tuition - how much could it be? What about his apartment and food? Who was the landlord? Who cosigned the lease? How was the rent paid? Follow the money. This will be the end of Quin - and maybe Alden - the old "lack of institutional control." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Has anyone ever heard of the Pell Grant? Student loans? Maybe Clemons had a job that summer, too. Until he was on scholarship at Mizzou, he didn't have the restrictions on working that Div. I scholarship athletes have. Also, Clemons DOES have relatives. One of the many stories on Clemons mentioned a great-aunt (or something) who is a judge in North Carolina or somewhere. Some of you want to see Missouri go down so badly that you're jumping the gun and IMAGINING the worst. While I can't be absolutely certain, I'm sure Quin Snyder and Mizzou did NOT broker Clemons's juco summer blowout. Lastly, schools "send" players to prep schools and junior colleges (especially in football, regarding the latter) all the time, but I don't really know how that works, who pays for stuff, and what all the rules are. A lot of that is beyond MY scope as a fan. I do want programs to be fair and ethical, though, even though the entire business is shady and the principals (the players) are being exploited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 While Mizzou may not have had a direct hand in Clemons' 24 credit hours I'm sure they did have a hand in his going to Barton CC to get eligable. Mizzou's addmisions dept. is the one who should have been asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I agree with Willie. I find it a little difficult to believe that a homeless kid who dropped out of Junior College and did not even have a high school degree was able to figure out how to become eligible without a great deal of assistance, financial and otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I don't think that Missouri should have paid for Clemons's summer juco hours, and I doubt it did, but what in the world could be wrong if someone from the school told him, "These are the things you're going to have to do to be eligible to play this coming season?" There's definitely a constituency here that wants to make everything that Mizzou does wrong. It can do no right in their eyes. Other than refusing to play SLU, having a few arrogant fans who demean SLU, and being a better program overall, what has Missouri done to make Saint Louis fans hate it so? Is it a public vs. private thing? (Of course I have to ask Missouri fans why they hate SLU so much, too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 There is nothing wrong with helping Clemons get to Barton as long as they felt he was going to a legitement school. If they knew the whole thing was a sham then that is achedemic fraud. I can hear the conversation between Ricky and Q. How's summer school going Ricky? Pretty good Coach. Last week I passed 5 courses, this week I'm going to take it easy,I'll only take 4 courses. Thicks as I said earlier it's the addmisions dept. that allowed fraud to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 aj, i dont think the ncaa is required to play by the constitutional rules. i.e. undeniable proof is probably not necessarily needed. if for example a player cannot adequately explain how they were able to pay rent on an expensive apartment, or how they are making car payments or purchasing extravagent clothes, toys, etc., and a very close acquaintence or family member is stating the money came from the school, coach or booster, that may be all that is needed. for example, i dont think the federal express envelope with cash falling out of it that shawn kemp got way back when that supposedly had "eddie sutton roots" wasnt without a shadow of a doubt from sutton, yet kentucky and sutton took the blame. so i wouldnt be all too quick to write it off just yet. if nothing else it is going to make life miserable for missouri imo. the ncaa will have to get involved at this point and now you add this to the list of other "minor" issues, at what point does the ncaa do the right thing and say these all add up to a final four caliber team that was put together because of the advantages these "tiny" incidents provided. at that point there will be penalties. the question is will it be timely? judging by the lack of timeliness with the michigan fiasco, all the parties that deserved to pay were all long gone. and my guess is that the same will happen here. snyder will take his final four run and turn it into the inevitable better position that always opens each spring, odom and harvey will be off being head coaches at some mid-major and bill laurie will have the final four plaque in his office. and some poor ba$tard that will be the new head coach will then have to endure the penalties. that is the part that sucks for tiger fandom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 well thicks, i would assume a relative with any substance that made rent payments etc would have cancelled checks and credit card receipts to back that up. as unca said, follow the money. it will either vindicate or convict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 i'm with willie. nothing wrong if the assistance part was advice and guideance too make sure things were done by the book. however, if the advce became illegal payments and fraudelent courses, that is wrong. my problem with it is that if isnt stopped, how the hell does a school playing by the rules ever catch up? plus, how are we to know it stopped with clemons? romar was in the running for mckinney. and i am not accusing mckinney or his recruitment of being illegal. but what if it was? did it cost us the best area recruit two summers ago? the fact the clemmons stuff is coming out has to make one wonder. i just want everyone to play by the same rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 with all the bad press, Missouri gets a commitment from Grimes and yesterday added one from Marshall Brown, a very highly regarded WF who has supposedly grown to 6'8" and also a 6'6" pure shooter. The Marshall Brown Commit probably means they will get a commit from Jason Horton, one of the top PGs in this class. Brown and Horton want to go to school together and Horton has long been favoring Missouri. In the meantime, we're talking about a guy who;s being recruited by Central Connecticut among others.Doesn't sound good. Of course, a disaster could occur for them if all these guys leave with a probation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Here is the link concerning Maryland's transgressions. They involve clothing and money. The probation is light, but a coach was fired and the recruit was no longer recruited. Also, Maryland took immediate action on its own. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/foo...probation_x.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.