The BVF Returns - Pay $250 to watch a sub .500 team practice

[shempie]

A couple of random thoughts and responses here:

* Other events are happening. One was held very recently that raised about $30,000.

* Those managing the collective not only have to raise $, but also dispense it That means talking to players, agents, families, often multiple times and negotiating with them. That is why in many places these are full time paid positions. I belive the BVF board is volunteer. Of course they can do better but they are learning on the job.

*High school players are the worst NIL investments. You have no idea if their game translates to the next level and if they are good they will leave for more $. Transfers are the value, particularly now that you need a waiver for the 2nd one. You have a body of work to look at and they will be stickier.

*Preseason polls mean absolutely nothing. Who knows better than fans of the home team after last season. We all have thoughts on what this team will do and the trajectory of the program, but let's at least let them play a game or two before decalring disaster. 

*One thing I never though about, but have heard mentioned is the impact NIL funds have the lives of many of these kids and their families. Some/many come from poverty and these funds are a big difference maker. A contribution to NIL helps SLU recruit no doubt, but ultimately impacts a kid and his famly in a positive way. There is a situation at SLU where this happened. Makes it feel a little different to me.

*SLU has always had an athletic fundraising strategy of asking a small group for big checks, They need to also think about asking a big group for small checks, IMO. 

 

 

[Lord Elrond]

51 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-I didn't know that all communication had to be on social media, does Steve post on social media when it is time to buck up to play in his sandbox?

How else would you suggest communicating and trying to raise awareness? TV commercials, radio commercials, print ads? They weren’t doing that either.  Social media offers the best low cost way to connect, other ways cost money. And it’s not like they were doing anything else either, they set up a website and did nothing for 5 months. I have no better alternative for them than social media, if you have a suggestion please give it. 

[johnbj14]

It does give me a bit of relief to know that stuff is happening, particularly the recent event that @shempie is mentioning. That being said, they absolutely should be publicizing this stuff. As others have said, SLU has made a habit of relying on a small group for large donations. That’s great, but that isn’t how you take a step forward. Eventually you need new dollars, and today’s small donors might one day be big ones. Using social media to showcase the wins the BVF are having might incentivize more fans to toss a few bucks here and there. 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

3 minutes ago, shempie said:

 

*SLU has always had an athletic fundraising strategy of asking a small group for big checks, They need to also think about asking a big group for small checks, IMO. 

 

 

Just to be clear I'm not against this event. I hope it does well and people have a great time and it's a cool event. I just think it would be cool to do something similar to the open scrimmage and stuff that was done in the past and have players stuff for sale or other ways to raise money for NIL at something the more casual fan could go to. I would gladly spend 250 dollars or more on merch that supports the players. 

Also it goes without saying that I am very appreciative of everyone working to raise the level of SLU men's basketball (And all other sports). Whether that's AD or BVF staff.

[brianstl]

2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If only they would have reached out to us MBMs earlier on social media could have donated $5000 instead of the $2500 they're gonna get.  I mean that's a lot of money -- we could get a quality 12th man with that kind of bread.

The problem is this is the first event they have done in ten months since the thing launched.  They went radio silent for months.  They have done zero outreach.  The have a joke of a website.  The website doesn't list any goals, it doesn't tell you who they are and it doesn't tell you how your money might be used to help.  The website has no way for potential donors to set up a BVF subscription or if prefer the term recurring donations.  It list absolutely zero incentive/perks for a person to donate.  The site doesn't give you a way to enter information to receive future updates.

The problem isn't potential money left on the table with table with this event, it is that the BVF has done nothing to bring in new donors in the past 10 months. The BVF doesn't seem interested at all in bringing in anyone new into their donor circle.  At least that is the way the BVF has acted since it's launch.  That is a lost chance to actually raise real money.

[brianstl]

21 minutes ago, shempie said:

A couple of random thoughts and responses here:

* Other events are happening. One was held very recently that raised about $30,000.

* Those managing the collective not only have to raise $, but also dispense it That means talking to players, agents, families, often multiple times and negotiating with them. That is why in many places these are full time paid positions. I belive the BVF board is volunteer. Of course they can do better but they are learning on the job.

*High school players are the worst NIL investments. You have no idea if their game translates to the next level and if they are good they will leave for more $. Transfers are the value, particularly now that you need a waiver for the 2nd one. You have a body of work to look at and they will be stickier.

*Preseason polls mean absolutely nothing. Who knows better than fans of the home team after last season. We all have thoughts on what this team will do and the trajectory of the program, but let's at least let them play a game or two before decalring disaster. 

*One thing I never though about, but have heard mentioned is the impact NIL funds have the lives of many of these kids and their families. Some/many come from poverty and these funds are a big difference maker. A contribution to NIL helps SLU recruit no doubt, but ultimately impacts a kid and his famly in a positive way. There is a situation at SLU where this happened. Makes it feel a little different to me.

*SLU has always had an athletic fundraising strategy of asking a small group for big checks, They need to also think about asking a big group for small checks, IMO. 

 

 

That philosophy means just don't recruit any high school kids, because any under the radar player you develop will leave too if you buy into that thinking. The BVF is just completely surrendering with a group of kids that are undervalued in the current market to compete all out for transfers that are so overvalued that the BVF couldn't have even afforded to bring Jimmy Bell back if they wanted to.

[shempie]

11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That philosophy means just don't recruit any high school kids, because any under the radar player you develop will leave too if you buy into that thinking. The BVF is just completely surrendering with a group of kids that are undervalued in the current market to compete all out for transfers that are so overvalued that the BVF couldn't have even afforded to bring Jimmy Bell back if they wanted to.

Fair point and I don't think they are mutually exclusive. But I think you have to find HS kids that want to come here and NIL is the sweetener. What I don't think is viable is to get into a bidding war for HS kids (or any kids) with no connection to SLU. And I don't think anyone on here is advocating that. But I don't think it is an accident we signed 4 foreign players and multiple transfers and one HS kid (early) in this class. And I do think it is worth mentioning again, the 2 time transfer rule is going to be a headwind for kids jumping schools multiple times. Would you rather sign a freshman or a kid that has played in college for a couple of years? The latter has more limited options to leave going forward. 

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, shempie said:

*High school players are the worst NIL investments. You have no idea if their game translates to the next level and if they are good they will leave for more $. Transfers are the value, particularly now that you need a waiver for the 2nd one. You have a body of work to look at and they will be stickier.

I get that is now the commonly held opinion and certainly agree that known production at the college level is preferable, but I personally would like to see SLU target that 50-250 type ranked high school recruits based on the idea that those prospects are being overlooked by programs that are more heavily focused on transfers. Once you get a kid on campus, it should be considerably easier to retain them. I think we have seen how competitive we are in the transfer market where programs are desperate with more money than we have. I do not see that changing. So, I would actually focus fairly heavily on building the roster with prep recruits and using the portal to supplement the roster or fill holes. I don't like the idea of looking to build our roster thru the portal especially when we are more at a level of targeting players who one could argue are available for a reason. Just my thoughts. I also think it is clear we will be targeting International prospects heavily. I will be interested to see how Ford develops those players because on paper that makes a lot of sense to me as well. I would say, an ideal world might include International prospects and local players who we have a natural sales pitch for and ideally we could raise some money to land. That obviously requires the local talent improving from where it has been the past few years. Anyways, if we want to play in the transfer portal, I would again say good luck, but certainly hope we are raising the sort of $ to be competitive. Clearly we weren't there this past spring despite believing we were well positioned to hit the transfer portal when deflecting about the disappointing season and some questioning the coach.

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, shempie said:

A couple of random thoughts and responses here:

* Other events are happening. One was held very recently that raised about $30,000.

* Those managing the collective not only have to raise $, but also dispense it That means talking to players, agents, families, often multiple times and negotiating with them. That is why in many places these are full time paid positions. I belive the BVF board is volunteer. Of course they can do better but they are learning on the job.

*High school players are the worst NIL investments. You have no idea if their game translates to the next level and if they are good they will leave for more $. Transfers are the value, particularly now that you need a waiver for the 2nd one. You have a body of work to look at and they will be stickier.

*Preseason polls mean absolutely nothing. Who knows better than fans of the home team after last season. We all have thoughts on what this team will do and the trajectory of the program, but let's at least let them play a game or two before decalring disaster. 

*One thing I never though about, but have heard mentioned is the impact NIL funds have the lives of many of these kids and their families. Some/many come from poverty and these funds are a big difference maker. A contribution to NIL helps SLU recruit no doubt, but ultimately impacts a kid and his famly in a positive way. There is a situation at SLU where this happened. Makes it feel a little different to me.

*SLU has always had an athletic fundraising strategy of asking a small group for big checks, They need to also think about asking a big group for small checks, IMO. 

 

 

1. Awesome, then say it with your chest Troy....Shout it from the heavens that people are involved and donating. Fans are already a mob mentality, play off that. 
2. Then get more people involved who can donate their time to help out. I am sure there are a ton of people like myself that can't chip in financially that would be happy to help where they can with organizing and promoting events.

3. Not only do they need to ask big groups for small checks but focus on growing the fan base. You get enough fans, you're going to develop that next line of donors. 

[brianstl]

30 minutes ago, shempie said:

Fair point and I don't think they are mutually exclusive. But I think you have to find HS kids that want to come here and NIL is the sweetener. What I don't think is viable is to get into a bidding war for HS kids (or any kids) with no connection to SLU. And I don't think anyone on here is advocating that. But I don't think it is an accident we signed 4 foreign players and multiple transfers and one HS kid (early) in this class. And I do think it is worth mentioning again, the 2 time transfer rule is going to be a headwind for kids jumping schools multiple times. Would you rather sign a freshman or a kid that has played in college for a couple of years? The latter has more limited options to leave going forward. 

The problem is every program wants to sign the kid that has college experience and would have to sit if they decide to move on from your program.  That fact that everyone wants those kids means the price on those kids skyrockets to a point where a program like SLU might not be able to compete for enough of those kids who would make a difference when it comes to being an at large team.

The real value for your dollar right now would be the kids that for whatever reason transfer for a second time and have to sit for a year.  To play that came you have to have a coach that is confident he doesn't have to win right away and donors having faith in the coach.

[TheChosenOne]

5 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

2. Then get more people involved who can donate their time to help out. I am sure there are a ton of people like myself that can't chip in financially that would be happy to help where they can with organizing and promoting events.

I will pay to make this happen. I love the idea of 05 helping to host events, I think it would bring an energy level that could not be matched. Sure, maybe it would not be with the whales, but I think it could bring in some $. 05 shooting the crap with Kyle Cassity on stage while us passionate fans who are not capable of being boosters soak it up and throw in some smaller $. Why not?

[Cowboy II]

1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

How else would you suggest communicating and trying to raise awareness? TV commercials, radio commercials, print ads? They weren’t doing that either.  Social media offers the best low cost way to connect, other ways cost money. And it’s not like they were doing anything else either, they set up a website and did nothing for 5 months. I have no better alternative for them than social media, if you have a suggestion please give it. 

-you said 5 months without communication, I've had several communications from BVF in that time, of course they were asking for money, I can't be the only person they contacted

-I didn't ask where they got my contact info but I can guess the ADept and I am okay with that

-perhaps your time is to come or you are not on the list it seems was provided to them

[billikenfan05]

8 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I will pay to make this happen. I love the idea of 05 helping to host events, I think it would bring an energy level that could not be matched. Sure, maybe it would not be with the whales, but I think it could bring in some $. 05 shooting the crap with Kyle Cassity on stage while us passionate fans who are not capable of being boosters soak it up and throw in some smaller $. Why not?

I would absolutely love to do this. I have brought up the idea of wanting to do a live pod since the I started with THTRB. Humphrey's stage would be perfect. 

[billikenfan05]

12 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-you said 5 months without communication, I've had several communications from BVF in that time, of course they were asking for money, I can't be the only person they contacted

-I didn't ask where they got my contact info but I can guess the ADept and I am okay with that

-perhaps your time is to come or you are not on the list it seems was provided to them

That's the problem though. @Pistol has said this. Let people know that you're getting an influx of donations. Money follows money. If you can't reach out to everyone via email, USE SOCIAL MEDIA. It's the same principle that the we've seen from WSOC and VB on twitter. They get a commitment and even if they can't say who, they announce how fired up about the commitment. The minute the BVF gets a fat check they need to be

@BillikenVFund 

"Fired up to add another donor to the fund! Building a future for Billiken basketball stack by stack."

or something like that, you get the idea. 

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, shempie said:

* Other events are happening. One was held very recently that raised about $30,000.

 

They do need to let folks know. Not necessarily the details but a tweet/facebook post saying "Great time at our event last night" with some photos. It would go a long way in building the brand. People want to do business where business is being done. It also helps when recruits, HS coaches, AAU coaches, etc see these things. Lets them know that SLU is in the game. 

Just look at what one tweet has done to this board. Most active thread in weeks. 

 

2 hours ago, shempie said:

* Those managing the collective not only have to raise $, but also dispense it That means talking to players, agents, families, often multiple times and negotiating with them. That is why in many places these are full time paid positions. I belive the BVF board is volunteer. Of course they can do better but they are learning on the job.

 

Yes it is. In transfer season it is like a full time job for folks, especially if you have players that are transferable. Most football collectives do have a full time or at least paid person for the job. It isn't the easiest thing in the world. 

 

2 hours ago, shempie said:

*High school players are the worst NIL investments. You have no idea if their game translates to the next level and if they are good they will leave for more $. Transfers are the value, particularly now that you need a waiver for the 2nd one. You have a body of work to look at and they will be stickier.

 

I agree, mostly. The best value is a freshman transfer that won some sort of "of the year" award in a lower conference. That should translate well moving up as well as, like you said, not being able to transfer a 2nd time. I also don't think the dollars being offered to high school guys - in SLU's wheelhouse- are really that high. The top 100 prospects might get decent offers from places, but a 3star guard from St Louis probably isn't getting a 5 figure promise. Starting low and having funds to retain that 3 star guard if he performs well is the key. 

 

2 hours ago, shempie said:

*One thing I never though about, but have heard mentioned is the impact NIL funds have the lives of many of these kids and their families. Some/many come from poverty and these funds are a big difference maker. A contribution to NIL helps SLU recruit no doubt, but ultimately impacts a kid and his famly in a positive way. There is a situation at SLU where this happened. Makes it feel a little different to me.

 

They absolutely do. Some of these guys get a check for more than their mom made in a year in her life. Some of the dudes going up in weight class are getting more than their moms have made in the last 10 years combined. 

[HoosierPal]

For those not happy with the BVL, look up and register on the Billiken Exchange.  Once you are approved, you have control over which players you want to support and the value you put on the player's NIL.  They will put you in contact with the player(s) of your choice, and then you can pay for the Brock Vice's of the world to come to your kids birthday party. 

Oops, best not support your favorite student athlete until he/she actually shows up on campus.

[JMM28]

7 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

That's the problem though. @Pistol has said this. Let people know that you're getting an influx of donations. Money follows money. If you can't reach out to everyone via email, USE SOCIAL MEDIA. It's the same principle that the we've seen from WSOC and VB on twitter. They get a commitment and even if they can't say who, they announce how fired up about the commitment. The minute the BVF gets a fat check they need to be

@BillikenVFund 

"Fired up to add another donor to the fund! Building a future for Billiken basketball stack by stack."

or something like that, you get the idea. 

I am biased, but there is a collective just up 55 doing this... www.hotbrave.com

[brianstl]

26 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I will pay to make this happen. I love the idea of 05 helping to host events, I think it would bring an energy level that could not be matched. Sure, maybe it would not be with the whales, but I think it could bring in some $. 05 shooting the crap with Kyle Cassity on stage while us passionate fans who are not capable of being boosters soak it up and throw in some smaller $. Why not?

There are all kinds of things the BVF could/should be doing to generate a "small" dollar donor base.  Some of those things would require them to have an operating budget large enough to have some people actually getting paid to work for it.  If SLU is actually going to compete in NIL going forward that is the kind of operation BVF is going to have to be.  It can't be a volunteer side project that is just working from a list of already known donors to the program. It needs to be a business and operated like a business.  Not just for getting as many small donors as possible, but to really leverage all the possible NIL opportunities for SLU athletes.  You need someone out there constantly selling it to people and businesses.

[3star_recruit]

28 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

I get that is now the commonly held opinion and certainly agree that known production at the college level is preferable, but I personally would like to see SLU target that 50-250 type ranked high school recruits based on the idea that those prospects are being overlooked by programs that are more heavily focused on transfers. Once you get a kid on campus, it should be considerably easier to retain them. I think we have seen how competitive we are in the transfer market where programs are desperate with more money than we have. I do not see that changing. So, I would actually focus fairly heavily on building the roster with prep recruits and using the portal to supplement the roster or fill holes. I don't like the idea of looking to build our roster thru the portal especially when we are more at a level of targeting players who one could argue are available for a reason. Just my thoughts. I also think it is clear we will be targeting International prospects heavily. I will be interested to see how Ford develops those players because on paper that makes a lot of sense to me as well. I would say, an ideal world might include International prospects and local players who we have a natural sales pitch for and ideally we could raise some money to land. That obviously requires the local talent improving from where it has been the past few years. Anyways, if we want to play in the transfer portal, I would again say good luck, but certainly hope we are raising the sort of $ to be competitive. Clearly we weren't there this past spring despite believing we were well positioned to hit the transfer portal when deflecting about the disappointing season and some questioning the coach.

Top 100 high school players aren't being overlooked by anybody.  They are receiving multiple high major offers just like they always have.  Either you have a minimum of 25K to gamble on one or you don't.  50K if you believe this prediction:

https://www.cbs17.com/sports/nil-expert-predicts-50000-minimum-pay-for-power-5-players/

[Cowboy II]

-I never said their approach was top notch

-on the day Troy was on with Frank and said they had all the money they needed for the year I posted on here what a stupid statement that was

-what I will do is give Troy & Co the benefit of the doubt as they are volunteers, at least to my knowledge, trying to help

-but also remember that they are dealing with the SLU ADept whose motto is "our fans are on a need to know basis and they don't need to know", perhaps the lack of communication is a directive 

-perhaps BVF has broken out of their shell or shackles

[billikenfan05]

.

[brianstl]

3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Top 100 high school players aren't being overlooked by anybody.  They are receiving multiple high major offers just like they always have.  Either you have a minimum of 25K to gamble on one or you don't.  50K if you believe this prediction:

https://www.cbs17.com/sports/nil-expert-predicts-50000-minimum-pay-for-power-5-players/

I would much rather pay $50,000 to take a chance on Hassan French level power forward high school recruit than spend $200,000 on a Jimmy Bell level transfer.

[Pistol]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

For those not happy with the BVL, look up and register on the Billiken Exchange.  Once you are approved, you have control over which players you want to support and the value you put on the player's NIL.  They will put you in contact with the player(s) of your choice, and then you can pay for the Brock Vice's of the world to come to your kids birthday party. 

Oops, best not support your favorite student athlete until he/she actually shows up on campus.

After you register, does it look anything like Xavier's NIL Marketplace?

[billikenfan05]

8 minutes ago, Pistol said:

After you register, does it look anything like Xavier's NIL Marketplace?

Kinda crazy to put a registration barrier. If someone goes to the site to check it out they should be able to poke around and learn as much as possible. 

[3star_recruit]

15 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I would much rather pay $50,000 to take a chance on Hassan French level power forward high school recruit than spend $200,000 on a Jimmy Bell level transfer.

You won't.  That guy got cut from a high major so he'll have to accept mid-major money.