GDT: Bonaventure Round 2

[Bay Area Billiken]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Here is every A10 team's non conference vs conference free throw rate. I'll be interested in the geographical conspiracy against Fordham, Dayton, VCU, and Duquesne. 9 of the 14 teams have a lower free throw rate in conference play than non-conference. A10 teams have a free throw rate of 28.6% in A10 play which is the 6th lowest rate of any conference in the country. Guys, I think there are just less fouls being called across the board in conference play. But let's keep up the conspiracies. I wouldn't expect anything less from this board. 

You just further confirmed the point.  Assuming your chart is correct, SLU is tied with Fordham for the biggest disparity in the conference.

The opinions of Bob Ramsey, who is in his 36th year broadcasting SLU games, and the late Coach Rick Majerus, who was 517-215 as a college coach, including 95-69 at SLU, are entitled to significantly more weight than those of certain message board referee apologists.
 

 

[Box and Won]

28 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

Its just a dumb tweet. It’s statistical noise. We have played like 12 non con and 12 conference games. There were two games in the non-conference (SFA and Boise) where we shot like 70 FT total. And there was the Duq game where we shot 7 FT. A few random games in a small sample size like this will throw averages off a ton. 

And for what it’s worth, other teams experience the same thing. VCU (not in midwest last i’ve heard) is averaging 16 FTA and allowing 19 FTA per game on the season. However, in conference play, they are shooting 14 per game and allowing 22.

Is A10 biased against VCU too? Does VCU bring in too much money from multiple NCAA tourney appearances? 

The defense rests.

 

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.  It's a well-known fact that there's a secret society consisting of Bernadette McGlade and the Atlantic 10's four most powerful university presidents, known as the Pentaverate, who control all officiating and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.  They hate SLU because they want to destroy the Central time zone.  I read about it in the paper (the Weekly World News).
 

[Bay Area Billiken]

12 minutes ago, jonny karate said:

How does Creighton compare in big east since they are the outpost there?

Creighton was invited to join the Big East, is not considered a pariah there. The Big East is big time, the major leagues, not a AAA East Coast bus league like the A10. If you’ve ever been to New York City, when the two tournaments are taking place concurrently, the difference is obvious.

[slufan13]

5 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

You just further confirmed the point.  Assuming your chart is correct, SLU is tied with Fordham for the biggest disparity in the conference.

The opinions of Bob Ramsey, who is in his 36th year broadcasting SLU games, and the late Coach Rick Majerus, who was 517-215 as a college coach, including 95-69 at SLU, are entitled to significantly more weight than those of certain message board referee apologists.
 

 

No. Just no. But you do you. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

2 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

No. Just no. But you do you. 

You might want to read Travis Ford’s explanation. 

[willie]

10 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

You just further confirmed the point.  Assuming your chart is correct, SLU is tied with Fordham for the biggest disparity in the conference.

The opinions of Bob Ramsey, who is in his 36th year broadcasting SLU games, and the late Coach Rick Majerus, who was 517-215 as a college coach, including 95-69 at SLU, are entitled to significantly more weight than those of certain message board referee apologists.
 

 

Sorry. I love Ramsey but he has no credibility when it comes to referees . Going back to the Yuri charge [WORST CALL I HAVE EVER SEEN] it was a charge. 

[slufan13]

I'm having Steve delete my account. A few too many conspiracies and just ridiculous opinions (Yuri 3rd best PG in the A10) on this board for me. I need a healthier lifestyle than trying to argue on this board. 

I'll see you guys when we run the table in the A10 tournament!

[Bay Area Billiken]

22 minutes ago, willie said:

Sorry. I love Ramsey but he has no credibility when it comes to referees . Going back to the Yuri charge [WORST CALL I HAVE EVER SEEN] it was a charge. 

But the Nesbitt “charge” was a blown call. The Bona defender never established position, which is the rule. 

Bob Ramsey echoed the musings of Rick Majerus. Majerus, as SLU Coach, famously once awoke for a second straight week looking at the Atlantic Ocean, and stated: “We have to get the hell out of this conference.”

The problem is SLU has nowhere better and available to go, probably didn’t then and doesn’t now. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I'm having Steve delete my account. A few too many conspiracies and just ridiculous opinions (Yuri 3rd best PG in the A10) on this board for me. I need a healthier lifestyle than trying to argue on this board. 

I'll see you guys when we run the table in the A10 tournament!

That’s why I refrained from responding, until too many arrows were incoming. No one is running you off, certainly not me. This is not life and death, just debating college basketball, and in the context of two tough losses to a rival.
Stay on the board. If you don’t want to engage, just don’t engage. That’s my approach.

[dlarry]

This is getting crazy.

Isnt it much more likely that officiating sports is extremely hard to do and mistakes are made pretty frequently?
 

College basketball is a billion dollar business. It also is responsible for billions of dollars changing hands for gambling purposes.

would a referee really risk his job and criminal prosecution because he is upset about working in the central time zone? 

 

[Billiken Bob]

26 minutes ago, willie said:

Sorry. I love Ramsey but he has no credibility when it comes to referees . Going back to the Yuri charge [WORST CALL I HAVE EVER SEEN] it was a charge. 

100% agree on both matters. I watched  last nights game with the sound off and listened to Bob and Earl.  Bob is a long time friend of mine.  However, I  remarked to my wife last night that people only listening on the radio get a totally different idea of what is happening on the court than what reality is happening.  It's really not fair to the listening audience. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 minute ago, dlarry said:

This is getting crazy.

Isnt it much more likely that officiating sports is extremely hard to do and mistakes are made pretty frequently?
 

College basketball is a billion dollar business. It also is responsible for billions of dollars changing hands for gambling purposes.

would a referee really risk his job and criminal prosecution because he is upset about working in the central time zone? 

 

The issue is not the Central Time Zone, per se, which is a straw man argument. 

It’s more that SLU is not an old guard, original A10 team, used to be a newcomer, still is relatively new compared to a number of other members. When SLU entered this league there were calls from some SLU fans to kick certain A10 schools out of the league, which persists. I never thought those were good PR moves. 

I read somewhere that Travis Ford said the other A10 coaches complain to the league about SLU’s style of play. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

We’ll see what happens when Loyola Chicago joins the A10 next season, although Loyola’s style of play to me seems more like Davidson and Richmond, and less like SLU and Dayton. 

[HoosierPal]

53 minutes ago, willie said:

Sorry. I love Ramsey but he has no credibility when it comes to referees . Going back to the Yuri charge [WORST CALL I HAVE EVER SEEN] it was a charge. 

We all love Rammer, partially because he is such a huge homer.  That's part of his shtick.  But how many 'Worst Calls I have Ever Seen' has he seen...maybe 20 every year?  We all know what he is doing and we love him for it, but he does get carried away.  I always sync up the KMOX feed with any TV coverage because I want to hear him and Earl rather than supposedly non-biased announcers. 

And I agree, Yuri's foul was an easy call.   There are many times when Rammer and Earl's angle on a play isn't all that good. 

I do give credit for Rammer's recent comments that part of a ref's crew issue is that they don't work well together.  What one ref calls on one end won't be called by a second ref.  As we all know refs move from baseline to mid court, so they trade off on calls under the basket and outside the arc. 

[AnkielBreakers]

45 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

I'm having Steve delete my account. A few too many conspiracies and just ridiculous opinions (Yuri 3rd best PG in the A10) on this board for me. I need a healthier lifestyle than trying to argue on this board. 

I'll see you guys when we run the table in the A10 tournament!

I would still love to see a yearly breakdown, going back 15 years, but I don’t think it is a conspiracy theory this year. I think the refs were leaned on by every A10 coach during the bully ball years. Technically, we played bully ball at the end of last year. Right now the refs are still in that mindset, but we are not as physical or fouling. If anything, Jimerson is getting mauled without any support.

No one was claiming a conspiracy theory last year, with French and Goodwin’s physicality, but this team is different. It feels like we are getting cheated by the refs without explanation. I also do not think this will change if we do not start screaming about it publicly.

[HoosierPal]

I know it was still in effect last season, but from about 2016 until last season, and maybe it still exists, the Atlantic 10,  ACC, Big East and CAA were a consortium sharing officials.  This was done to minimize travel for the refs.  I assume it has carried forward to this season, but I have not seen it in print.

[glazedandconfused]

11 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I would still love to see a yearly breakdown, going back 15 years, but I don’t think it is a conspiracy theory this year. I think the refs were leaned on by every A10 coach during the bully ball years. Technically, we played bully ball at the end of last year. Right now the refs are still in that mindset, but we are not as physical or fouling. If anything, Jimerson is getting mauled without any support.

No one was claiming a conspiracy theory last year, with French and Goodwin’s physicality, but this team is different. It feels like we are getting cheated by the refs without explanation. I also do not think this will change if we do not start screaming about it publicly.

As stated earlier, From 2011-2021 (as far as i could find conference only stats) SLU was called for 1867 fouls and SLUs opponents were called for 1866. Take your tin hat elsewhere. 

Also, us screaming or posting has literally no effect on the officials/A10 at all. We are irrelevant

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 minute ago, glazedandconfused said:

 

Also, us screaming or posting has literally no effect on the officials/A10 at all. We are irrelevant

The SLU Athletic Department is relevant. 

[AnkielBreakers]

5 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

As stated earlier, From 2011-2021 (as far as i could find conference only stats) SLU was called for 1867 fouls and SLUs opponents were called for 1866. Take your tin hat elsewhere. 

Also, us screaming or posting has literally no effect on the officials/A10 at all. We are irrelevant

I am not going to lie, I will wait for someone else to post the stats on a yearly basis. You seem pretty committed to your argument.

Also, public screaming makes a difference. Otherwise, Majerus would not have done it. It probably has a bigger effect on the refs in a league than a coach yelling during the actual games. Which is probably why Majerus didn’t yell at the refs. The refs are paid by the league. If the league notes complaints and investigates them, then the refs will start acting with care in their job. It happens in all customer service professions. 

[glazedandconfused]

3 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

The SLU Athletic Department is relevant. 

You want our Athletic Department to start screaming about “getting cheated by the refs with no explanation” (your words)? 

Should the Athletic Department lead off with how we are still shooting the most FT attempts per game of any A10 school? 

[Bay Area Billiken]

Cut the hyperbole. 
If those are my words, prove it. Or better yet, don’t waste your time.

With that out of the way, there are diplomatic means for the Athletic Dept. to address the issue.

[glazedandconfused]

Just now, Bay Area Billiken said:

Cut the hyperbole. 
If those are my words, prove it. Or better yet, don’t waste your time.

With that out of the way, there are diplomatic means for the Athletic Dept. to address the issue.

 it was Ankiel Breakers that said that^ 

 

Got my loony bins crossed, Sorry!

[Billfan7]

1 hour ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Creighton was invited to join the Big East, is not considered a pariah there. The Big East is big time, the major leagues, not a AAA East Coast bus league like the A10. If you’ve ever been to New York City, when the two tournaments are taking place concurrently, the difference is obvious.

But the Referees in the A10 and Big East are pretty much the same guys.  Referees are not exclusive to conference - they are independent contractors free to make deals with as many conferences as will hire them.  For instance, I have seen the infamous (around here) Bo Borowski working a Big 10 game one night and an A10 game the next.  They have no allegiance.  Why would they give a hoot about the "old guard" vs  "CST" A 10 team(s)?

[AnkielBreakers]

11 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

You want our Athletic Department to start screaming about “getting cheated by the refs with no explanation” (your words)? 

Should the Athletic Department lead off with how we are still shooting the most FT attempts per game of any A10 school? 

If I were the AD, I would send the same numbers that Ramsey posted. I would also note that a sports personality thought it was weird enough to post on it. I would ask that the A10 checks with its own public relations team to see if other fans have noted the issue, and if they need it, I would link them to this forum. I don’t know. Those seem like logical approaches. I guarantee that other fan bases have noticed that we are getting hosed by the refs. I bet their is at least 1 or 2 comments out there that help our argument. It is the court of public opinion. Ref’ing is not purely black and white, there is a lot of gray area.

[slufan13]

11 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

If I were the AD, I would send the same numbers that Ramsey posted. I would also note that a sports personality thought it was weird enough to post on it. I would ask that the A10 checks with its own public relations team to see if other fans have noted the issue, and if they need it, I would link them to this forum. I don’t know. Those seem like logical approaches. I guarantee that other fan bases have noticed that we are getting hosed by the refs. I bet their is at least 1 or 2 comments out there that help our argument. It is the court of public opinion. Ref’ing is not purely black and white, there is a lot of gray area.

Speaking up about potentially unfair officiating is fine. Blaming it on being the western most team in the conference is laughable and loses credibility.