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55 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Over the last 6 games, Goodwin is averaging 

18.7 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.7 APG, 2.3 SPG, 2.5 TOV, 50.0% FG, 35.0% 3FG, 71.9% FT

 

 

 

goodwin better watch out.   these are nba worthy numbers imo.   😀

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Not trying to be critical, but who is the Bills all-time turnover leader?  Jordair had a lot of turnovers early in his career,but improved a great deal later on.  Jim Roder had ?19 assists in a game;how many turnovers in that game.  Turnovers can also be misleading, since they are part of being an aggressive player-ie Goodwin;  who has best turnover/assist ratio? who has worst?

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3 hours ago, papal said:

Not trying to be critical, but who is the Bills all-time turnover leader?  Jordair had a lot of turnovers early in his career,but improved a great deal later on.  Jim Roder had ?19 assists in a game;how many turnovers in that game.  Turnovers can also be misleading, since they are part of being an aggressive player-ie Goodwin;  who has best turnover/assist ratio? who has worst?

1. LaTodd Johnson, 1979-80 to 1982-83 338
2. Tommie Liddell, 2005-06 to 2008-09 317
3. Anthony Bonner, 1986-87 to 1989-90 316
4. Jordair Jett, 2010-11 to 2013-14 295
5. Kwamain Mitchell, 2008-09 to 2012-13 280
6. Monroe Douglass, 1985-86 to 1988-89 267
7. Josh Fisher, 2000-01 to 2003-04 262
8. Marque Perry, 1999-00 to 2002-03 260
9. Roland Gray, 1985-86 to 1988-89 250
10. Luther Burden, 1982-83 to 1984-85 244
 
Not sure how far back turnovers are recorded, but this was the list headed into this season. Goodwin started the year just outside the top 10 with 240 and is currently 7th with 265 just 2 behind Monroe Douglass.
 

Here's a bunch of Assist to Turnover ratios for players 1980s to present - I just looked up a bunch of guys, there might be somebody with a better ratio than H Waldman, but he and Roder were the only ones I could find better than Yuri Collins

Waldman 2.458
Roder 2.451
Yuri 2.027
Newberry 1.893
Pee Wee 1.848
McCall 1.720
Walker 1.699
Fisher 1.664
Kwamain 1.500
Lisch 1.450
Jett 1.431
Claggett 1.411
McCauley 1.404
Goodwin 1.332
Drejaj 1.231
LaTodd 1.186
Gray 1.116
Perry 1.055
Douglass 1.045
Burns 1.000
Highmark 0.976
Liddell 0.987
Burden 0.897
Bonner 0.838
Love 0.744
Hughes 0.631
Big Mel 0.605
Vouyoukas 0.603
Willie 0.340

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4 hours ago, papal said:

Thanks. Interesting that many of our greatest players on the turnover list.. I guess it shows that to be great you must be aggressive and that leads to turnovers.

That's exactly what I've been saying regarding JGood and Yuri. If you tell them to change their aggressiveness it'll change who they are. Then I hear well just cut back on the bad plays. If they thought they were going to be bad plays or turnovers they wouldn't have attempted them in the first place. Great players play with extreme confidence that sometimes leads to bad plays, but changing their nature leads to them being different players. With experience they gain some feel for what is good or bad, but neither of those two and as you can see by the leading t/o list will ever b e players where you don't say wtf ... now and then

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On 12/25/2020 at 2:48 PM, papal said:

Thanks. Interesting that many of our greatest players on the turnover list.. I guess it shows that to be great you must be aggressive and that leads to turnovers.

Here's that list re-ordered with made FG factored in, ranked by Ratio of FG + A to Turnovers - providing a bit more context for positives (made FG and assists) vs turnovers.

 

Player FG A TO A/TO FG/TO (FG+A)/TO
Claggett 657 347 246 1.411 2.671 4.081
Waldman 189 295 120 2.458 1.575 4.033
Ellis 329 99 107 0.925 3.075 4.000
Douglass 766 279 267 1.045 2.869 3.914
Bess 300 136 112 1.214 2.679 3.893
Gray 694 279 250 1.116 2.776 3.892
McCall 413 339 197 1.721 2.096 3.817
Cobbin 365 143 135 1.059 2.704 3.763
Lisch 516 325 224 1.451 2.304 3.754
Cassity 234 320 148 2.162 1.581 3.743
Dobbs 376 125 137 0.912 2.745 3.657
Roder 158 353 144 2.451 1.097 3.549
Crawford 327 144 136 1.059 2.404 3.463
Mitchell 547 420 280 1.500 1.954 3.454
Bonner 774 265 316 0.839 2.449 3.288
Goodwin 490 353 265 1.332 1.849 3.181
Highmark 549 245 251 0.976 2.187 3.163
Willie 273 33 97 0.340 2.814 3.155
French 464 187 209 0.895 2.220 3.115
Burden 533 219 244 0.898 2.184 3.082
Pee Wee 233 370 199 1.859 1.171 3.030
Sloan 231 155 129 1.202 1.791 2.992
Jett 453 422 295 1.431 1.536 2.966
Newberry 267 424 234 1.812 1.141 2.953
Fisher 324 436 262 1.664 1.237 2.901
Evans 543 126 232 0.543 2.341 2.884
Loe 342 153 174 0.879 1.966 2.845
Roby 345 281 224 1.254 1.540 2.795
Liddell 567 313 317 0.987 1.789 2.776
Walker 217 350 206 1.699 1.053 2.752
Burns 399 229 229 1.000 1.742 2.742
Collins 76 229 113 2.027 0.673 2.699
Love 307 122 164 0.744 1.872 2.616
Perry 471 343 325 1.055 1.449 2.505
Conklin 404 105 206 0.510 1.961 2.471
Hughes 224 77 122 0.631 1.836 2.467
Drejaj 273 272 221 1.231 1.235 2.466
Vouyoukas 376 123 204 0.603 1.843 2.446
Henderson 336 89 183 0.486 1.836 2.322
McCauley 158 257 183 1.404 0.863 2.268
LaTodd 180 401 338 1.186 0.533 1.719
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6 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

I’m glad I wasn’t alive yet during LaTodd Johnson’s career.  Dude must’ve been incredibly frustrating to watch turn the ball over so much.

He handled the ball a ton, his teammates were trash and the team ran a lot.  He wasn't in some Soderberg offense walking the ball up the court and turning it over at half court.

Total TOs are a misleading stat.  The one that stands out is AB.  He had very few assists, never touched the ball outside the paint.  If he had the ball there were three outcomes, he scored, he missed the shot, or turned it over.  His first 2 seasons he was a TO machine.  He had no hands.  He got better as his career went on but he was never solid with the ball.  AB also would regularly miss dunks.  I bet he has 10:1 more missed dunks than any other Billiken.

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I just looked up the D1 rebound leaders and 1 spot in front of JGood is Malachi Smith from Chatanooga.  Went to HS in the Bronx but says born in Belleville Il. 

Edit must be a different Malachi Smith in the Bronx Sr in HS this year I think. The player for Chatanooga went to school at Belleville West. Top 2 rebounding guards in the country played HS ball in Belleville. That's an odd stat. 

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Malachi was ej liddell's point guard and the teams 2nd best player behind liddell when belleville west won the state title in Liddell's junior year.   Very nice player.   He was pretty much ignored his freshman season at Wright State.   

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Malachi was ej liddell's point guard and the teams 2nd best player behind liddell when belleville west won the state title in Liddell's junior year.   Very nice player.   He was pretty much ignored his freshman season at Wright State.    Same player transferred to Chattanooga

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