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30 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Am I the only one who has never found old guy's act enjoyable or entertaining?

I just wish I knew which poster he was. I have my suspicions

The ice cube thing was funny for a while, but even that thread turned into him trying to sell the act too hard.  The returns have only diminished at a accelerating pace since.

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15 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The ice cube thing was funny for a while, but even that thread turned into him trying to sell the act too hard.  The returns have only diminished at a accelerating pace since.

I find him mostly funny. Read it when I’m bored. Skip over it when i want. 

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2 hours ago, brianstl said:

The ice cube thing was funny for a while, but even that thread turned into him trying to sell the act too hard.  The returns have only diminished at a accelerating pace since.

Don't let me inconvenience you, ignore me,  you too Rise and Grind. Go ahead and do it.

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21 hours ago, slufanskip said:

My question though is have the courses changed? Are they longer now than 40-50 years ago?

Old Guy is correct.  Every course (private to public) has been lengthened and extended over the past 50 years -- if they can.  The problem is that many really good courses lack not only the money/commitment but also the room/acreage to lengthen them.  Even courses like Bellerive (which was built with the concept of having room for crowds and grandstands) have only so much room.  And, of course, it is much harder than simply moving the tees back as holes are designed to have proper landing areas for the drive (par 4's and 5's) and for the second shot (par 5's).   Also, course design tries to incorporate water features, dog-leg bends, sandtraps and even large trees/groves of trees into their design.  When a course is maxed out, it simply cannot be used for high level PGA golf anymore - a shame.

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22 hours ago, Old guy said:

The PGA is known to examine equipment and make rules that eliminate the use of certain improvements that would produce significant advantage. For example in Hogan's time (I am really not that old), there were no drivers. To tee off  the pros used #1 and #2 irons, try and find one nowadays. The shafts were wood, and the balls were made with gutapercha (perhaps this was even earlier on than Hogan) and then the modern balls were developed with their rubber/plastic layers, dimpling, and surface compounds. Some types of balls are not legal for competition nowadays but you can use them for daily play. When drivers were developed they were made out of wood, later on they were made out of metal. The size of the driver heads, small initially, grew up until the PGA placed a limit at 460 cc, they still make larger driver heads but they are not legal for competition. The MOI (Moment of Inertia, measures resistance to twisting of the club when hitting out of center) of clubs was refined until the PGA put a limit to this improvement. The grooves on the wedges progressed a lot, increasing the levels of backspin possible, until some kind of fancy grooves were barred from competition. And so  on and so forth. The drivers used by Tiger and by Koepke are not what you  can buy in a store, they are specially made for them and painstakingly tuned during manufacturing to suit the pro. When you see the add saying XXX won using a Titleist (or any other brand) driver, this is not what you are going to buy in the store. For that matter if you managed to buy an old driver used by Tiger in competition, you would never ever would be able to swing it like he does. This custom crafting and tuning applies to putters or any other clubs professionals use. Finally, during the championship Adam Scott was using a putter with the long shaft that rests against your chest. I believe the PGA is considering banning those from competition. 

The process as far as the PGA appears to be concerned is to allow some degree of innovation and improvement of the equipment but not so much that an unfair advantage is gained by some players, or to the level that golf courses will have to be redesigned for competition. How about reaching a 1000 yd. par 4 for competitive play?

Old Guy.

Good posts.  One correction.  Yes, the long putter used by Adam Scott had been designed and had been used by resting it against the player's chest like a fulcrum.  This was banned by the PGA -- and still is banned - on the grounds that the player putting the ball is not swinging the club freely as one end is fixed against the chest/fulcrum - and therefore a unfair advantage..  A new interpretation the rule defining what a golf swing is now allows what Adam Scott was doing this weekend -- not resting the top of the shaft against his check but holding it steady by his top hand --out away from his chest -and therefore a permissible free swing of the club.  Maybe the long putters will return - but I'll bet that Adam Scott does put as well as he did with the fulcrum/chest set up.

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Hi Clock. The great advantage of the long putters was stability. By fixing one of the ends of the shaft to the chest, the hands were free to swing the mid point of the shaft while retaining a rock solid steady body. This would markedly increase the probability for a very precise putt. Holding the end of a long shaft with one hand (which is located way above the plane regularly used in golf) while swinging the mid shaft with the other hand does not appear, to me, to add stability to the swing. The result may indeed be less stability of the swing.  

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3 hours ago, Old guy said:

Hi Clock. The great advantage of the long putters was stability. By fixing one of the ends of the shaft to the chest, the hands were free to swing the mid point of the shaft while retaining a rock solid steady body. This would markedly increase the probability for a very precise putt. Holding the end of a long shaft with one hand (which is located way above the plane regularly used in golf) while swinging the mid shaft with the other hand does not appear, to me, to add stability to the swing. The result may indeed be less stability of the swing.  

 

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16 hours ago, brianstl said:

The ice cube thing was funny for a while, but even that thread turned into him trying to sell the act too hard.  The returns have only diminished at a accelerating pace since.

You know brianstl, the Mexican ice thing was and is real, it was not a joke. I was really trying to keep the team in good health. Of course only a fraction of those who get in contact with a possible source of infection (in this case the possible pathogens carried by tap water that is used to make ice, as I did describe at the time) get sick. The percentage of observed actual clinical infection resulting from ingesting the possibly tainted source of food or drink varies with many factors, primarily what you ingest and the number (called inoculum) of pathogens ingested. In that particular trip Welmer got sick, if I recall correctly. This was not and still is not a joke, it was trying to practice something called Prevention, ever heard the word? Of course you have. 

If you have not learned this yet, learn it now. Anything I try to post to make fun goes in blue font. All the rest I am serious about. In this case I was really serious about the Mexican ice issue. Ever heard of something called Epidemiology, I mean as something other than a word you do not use regularly? Prevention is a straight application of it. Prevention is practiced by avoiding known potential sources of infectious agents among other things. Laugh all you want but in that laughter there is a massive amount of ignorance and an inability to perceive that things just might be different than what you think they are.

I am not being funny about this post either. As a matter of fact I am so serious most of the time that people, not only you, think I am being funny. I am not trying to be funny, I am serious. The "decreasing returns" you mention in your post is an indication that doubt has entered your mind. Yes, it is not fun at all to realize I am and have been all along both serious and talking way over your head and over your limitations. Reality is never fun, is it? Be what it may, I am placing you on ignore and request you do the same with me. Thank you.

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12 hours ago, Old guy said:

Hi Clock. The great advantage of the long putters was stability. By fixing one of the ends of the shaft to the chest, the hands were free to swing the mid point of the shaft while retaining a rock solid steady body. This would markedly increase the probability for a very precise putt. Holding the end of a long shaft with one hand (which is located way above the plane regularly used in golf) while swinging the mid shaft with the other hand does not appear, to me, to add stability to the swing. The result may indeed be less stability of the swing.  

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13 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Old Guy is correct.  Every course (private to public) has been lengthened and extended over the past 50 years -- if they can.  The problem is that many really good courses lack not only the money/commitment but also the room/acreage to lengthen them.  Even courses like Bellerive (which was built with the concept of having room for crowds and grandstands) have only so much room.  And, of course, it is much harder than simply moving the tees back as holes are designed to have proper landing areas for the drive (par 4's and 5's) and for the second shot (par 5's).   Also, course design tries to incorporate water features, dog-leg bends, sandtraps and even large trees/groves of trees into their design.  When a course is maxed out, it simply cannot be used for high level PGA golf anymore - a shame.

Question - does Augusta have the land to continue to expand the course?  If not would the Masters ever be moved - I doubt it so why rule out other very good courses that have historic places in professional golf?  

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Just now, cheeseman said:

Question - does Augusta have the land to continue to expand the course?  If not would the Masters ever be moved - I doubt it so why rule out other very good courses that have historic places in professional golf?  

I went to the Masters last spring and from that limited experience I would say they certainly have room to expand. We parked in a pretty sizable gravel parking lot and the walk in was quite long, so they do not appear to be noticeably confined. 

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However, Augusta National is located within the city of Augusta proper and is surrounded by residential areas. When the club area is exhausted they will not be able to expand any further. Also from a logistics viewpoint, the gravel lots located in the property may be necessary to accommodate the visitors to their event, further limiting the potential for expansion of the course itself.

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2 hours ago, Old guy said:

You know brianstl, the Mexican ice thing was and is real, it was not a joke. I was really trying to keep the team in good health. Of course only a fraction of those who get in contact with a possible source of infection (in this case the possible pathogens carried by tap water that is used to make ice, as I did describe at the time) get sick. The percentage of observed actual clinical infection resulting from ingesting the possibly tainted source of food or drink varies with many factors, primarily what you ingest and the number (called inoculum) of pathogens ingested. In that particular trip Welmer got sick, if I recall correctly. This was not and still is not a joke, it was trying to practice something called Prevention, ever heard the word? Of course you have. 

If you have not learned this yet, learn it now. Anything I try to post to make fun goes in blue font. All the rest I am serious about. In this case I was really serious about the Mexican ice issue. Ever heard of something called Epidemiology, I mean as something other than a word you do not use regularly? Prevention is a straight application of it. Prevention is practiced by avoiding known potential sources of infectious agents among other things. Laugh all you want but in that laughter there is a massive amount of ignorance and an inability to perceive that things just might be different than what you think they are.

I am not being funny about this post either. As a matter of fact I am so serious most of the time that people, not only you, think I am being funny. I am not trying to be funny, I am serious. The "decreasing returns" you mention in your post is an indication that doubt has entered your mind. Yes, it is not fun at all to realize I am and have been all along both serious and talking way over your head and over your limitations. Reality is never fun, is it? Be what it may, I am placing you on ignore and request you do the same with me. Thank you.

Selling the act too hard

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14 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Question - does Augusta have the land to continue to expand the course?  If not would the Masters ever be moved - I doubt it so why rule out other very good courses that have historic places in professional golf?  

-if you will consider this, in the mid 2000's ANGC completed their purchase of a neighborhood next to club to expand their "tournament practice area" and provide additional parking for "patrons", they have recently purchased land from Augusta CC to lengthen the 13 hole, comparing them to really any other club or course is not fair given the vast sums of money they have by hosting a major every year but even ANGC will not be able to keep the integrity of their course if the ball keeps flying longer and longer

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5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

However, Augusta National is located within the city of Augusta proper and is surrounded by residential areas. When the club area is exhausted they will not be able to expand any further. Also from a logistics viewpoint, the gravel lots located in the property may be necessary to accommodate the visitors to their event, further limiting the potential for expansion of the course itself.

The other thing I would note is that the residential areas and development around the course that I saw was not the typical country club type houses or developments, so if they did need to acquire additional land it isn't surrounded by costly developments from what I saw. That was a fun course to walk and really changes how you watch the tournament.

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2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Question - does Augusta have the land to continue to expand the course?  If not would the Masters ever be moved - I doubt it so why rule out other very good courses that have historic places in professional golf?  

I really enjoyed watching the PGA but don't normally watch golf. I liked Brooks Koepka and will now probably watch a little more often. I used to watch once in a while but the Tiger Woods show wore me out. It drove me crazy to see a 3 min segment on espn regarding a tourney and you'd get 2 minutes on Tiger before you even heard who was in the lead and Tiger is in 47th place and hadn't been a contender in years. Not only that he's just not a guy I'd like to root for. 

I think I would find it more fun to watch if they didn't necessarily increase the length of courses but make them more difficult. Narrow the landing areas and add more hazards. Reduce the size of some greens making them harder to hit. Make accuracy as important or more important than distance. 

 

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37 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

@Old guy any truth to Cro Magnons being the first to develop the game, later to be known as golf?

actually if you do a search at utube for robin williams golf you will know everything you need to know about the development of golf.  

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4 hours ago, Old guy said:

You know brianstl, the Mexican ice thing was and is real, it was not a joke. I was really trying to keep the team in good health. Of course only a fraction of those who get in contact with a possible source of infection (in this case the possible pathogens carried by tap water that is used to make ice, as I did describe at the time) get sick. The percentage of observed actual clinical infection resulting from ingesting the possibly tainted source of food or drink varies with many factors, primarily what you ingest and the number (called inoculum) of pathogens ingested. In that particular trip Welmer got sick, if I recall correctly. This was not and still is not a joke, it was trying to practice something called Prevention, ever heard the word? Of course you have. 

If you have not learned this yet, learn it now. Anything I try to post to make fun goes in blue font. All the rest I am serious about. In this case I was really serious about the Mexican ice issue. Ever heard of something called Epidemiology, I mean as something other than a word you do not use regularly? Prevention is a straight application of it. Prevention is practiced by avoiding known potential sources of infectious agents among other things. Laugh all you want but in that laughter there is a massive amount of ignorance and an inability to perceive that things just might be different than what you think they are.

I am not being funny about this post either. As a matter of fact I am so serious most of the time that people, not only you, think I am being funny. I am not trying to be funny, I am serious. The "decreasing returns" you mention in your post is an indication that doubt has entered your mind. Yes, it is not fun at all to realize I am and have been all along both serious and talking way over your head and over your limitations. Reality is never fun, is it? Be what it may, I am placing you on ignore and request you do the same with me. Thank you.

Old guy, maybe you don't really get this but much of the problem posters have and I occasionally am one of them is that your posts are condescending. You talk down to people with regards to very basic things. We're not all idiots. Except for some technical things much of the time we've known that since we were in 2nd grade. 

With that said I'm glad you post. 

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4 hours ago, brianstl said:

Selling the act too hard

I think you're wrong- Old Guy just is who he is, and he has plenty of time to post.  Of course, you might have some inside info that I'm not privy to.

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