Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[kshoe]

1 minute ago, Bills_06 said:

I am confused by what Stu has been tweeting.  The final report, is that the report that is given to the hearing officer?  If so, why would they be considering an appeal before the hearing officer makes a decision?  Or is he referring to the final report including the determination of the hearing officer because that would require an appeal then but the players should also know the punishment then too.  

I suppose you could appeal some finding within the report that you believe objectionable.

[dlarry]

1 hour ago, 615Billiken said:

This doesn't give me hope. I read is as the decision was negative, and they are mulling what to do.

Had the decision been a good one for the players, a simple 'no' would not have been problematic. 

Or the decision was positive and they are getting ready to sue the holy hell out of a bunch of people.

I read his statement as.......nothing.

[Duff Man]

20 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

Stu went to the store, bought some worms, put them on a hook and sent Scott an email. As any good fisherman would tell you, the dumb fish are already in the boat. The smart fish are still in the water. Scott Rosenblum is probably a really smart fish .

If Rosenblum was half as good as his rep, they'd be playing by now.

The man accepts high profile cases because it boosts his profile, and he surely knows how to manipulate the system to his advantage...but that trail leaves a lot of enemies and surely they are plenty of fine lawyers with less baggage than Rosenblum that could have served the interests of the players here.

[ACE]

According to Stu, the team is getting back together tonight at 6 pm. Have the three players returned from Christmas break? We should know tonight.

[Bills_06]

13 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I suppose you could appeal some finding within the report that you believe objectionable.

Yea I guess.  I am no expert but just from reading SLU's policy, it sounded to me like the initial report is completed and submitted to both parties, they have 5 days to submit additional information or comments to the report which the investigator can incorporate into the final version which is then giving to the hearing officer.  So this is where we should be based on Stu saying they have the final report:

The Hearing Officer will provide both the Reporting Party and Accused Party an opportunity to review the final investigative report and meet with the Hearing Officer separately to discuss the recommended findings and underlying facts. Alternatively, the parties may submit written comments in lieu of an in-person meeting with the Hearing Officer. Any Party may submit written questions that they want to be asked by the Hearing Officer of another Party. The Hearing Officer will review the questions prior to them being asked of another Party to ensure they are appropriate and relevant. At the conclusion of the individual meetings, or upon receipt of additional written comment, the Hearing Officer will make a determination as to whether, based on the preponderance of the evidence standard, the Accused Party committed an act or acts of Prohibited Conduct in violation of this policy.

So I take it as you can comment to parts you find objectionable and explain your case but the appeal comes after that if they don't like the outcome.  

[cheeseman]

1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

If Rosenblum was half as good as his rep, they'd be playing by now.

The man accepts high profile cases because it boosts his profile, and he surely knows how to manipulate the system to his advantage...but that trail leaves a lot of enemies and surely they are plenty of fine lawyers with less baggage than Rosenblum that could have served the interests of the players here.

Sorry you lost to him.

[cheeseman]

21 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I suppose you could appeal some finding within the report that you believe objectionable.

I would think that at some point if you were unhappy with the resolution that you can seek remedy in civil court.  All you have to proof is that you have been harmed by the decision that you think is unfair.  Whether you win or not is another matter but an injunction allowing the players to play can be gotten at the very least.  You can delay any further actions until the season is over and then take time to negotiate a final determination with the school.  I have always wonder why an injunction was not got before but I guess why show your hand until you absolutely have to.

[Duff Man]

Just now, cheeseman said:

Sorry you lost to him.

I've seen him lose up close and that's why I know he's not the magician people make him out to be.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mo-supreme-court/1215701.html

He just took that family for everything they had and presented a completely implausible defense.

But he gets the acceptable outcomes in the high profile cases, and people like you eat it up...so go on sucking his D

[GoBills73]

12 minutes ago, ACE said:

According to Stu, the team is getting back together tonight at 6 pm. Have the three players returned from Christmas break? We should know tonight.

Nobody bailed

https://twitter.com/studurando/status/946066122494959617

[wgstl]

16 minutes ago, GoBills73 said:

Nobody bailed

https://twitter.com/studurando/status/946066122494959617

for now, and times running out for them to do so, correct?  Dont they have till Saturday or they have to sit out another semester if they transfer?

[Old guy]

37 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I would think that at some point if you were unhappy with the resolution that you can seek remedy in civil court.  All you have to proof is that you have been harmed by the decision that you think is unfair.  Whether you win or not is another matter but an injunction allowing the players to play can be gotten at the very least.  You can delay any further actions until the season is over and then take time to negotiate a final determination with the school.  I have always wonder why an injunction was not got before but I guess why show your hand until you absolutely have to.

Cheeseman I hope you realize that you are commenting about the very large number of actions and moves that are available in a legal situation, including injunctions and civil suits. I would think that you realize that all of this stuff requires time to do properly, and that these actions are available to both sides. These are actions which can be commented upon, and discussed, and appealed. The process takes a LOT of time to go through. 

[cheeseman]

27 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Cheeseman I hope you realize that you are commenting about the very large number of actions and moves that are available in a legal situation, including injunctions and civil suits. I would think that you realize that all of this stuff requires time to do properly, and that these actions are available to both sides. These are actions which can be commented upon, and discussed, and appealed. The process takes a LOT of time to go through. 

Actually seeking an injunction is not that long of a process.  It can be done in a matter of hours if you deem it necessary.  Yes I realize a lot more than I think you give me or others credit for.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Duff Man said:

I've seen him lose up close and that's why I know he's not the magician people make him out to be.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mo-supreme-court/1215701.html

He just took that family for everything they had and presented a completely implausible defense.

But he gets the acceptable outcomes in the high profile cases, and people like you eat it up...so go on sucking his D

I do not know the man personally or his work.  All I know is that he seems to get results on the cases that are high profile - see 2 Rams players.

[cheeseman]

47 minutes ago, wgstl said:

for now, and times running out for them to do so, correct?  Dont they have till Saturday or they have to sit out another semester if they transfer?

I think they can go D2 without sitting.  I would think as long as they are enrolled somewhere else by the time that school's deadline for the semester is then they would be OK.  I am not sure what happens if 2 of them want to go D1.  Obviously, Bishop has more potential avenues.

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

I think they can go D2 without sitting.  I would think as long as they are enrolled somewhere else by the time that school's deadline for the semester is then they would be OK.  I am not sure what happens if 2 of them want to go D1.  Obviously, Bishop has more potential avenues.

this is correct.   and if you are asking why the three of them would go down to D2 or NAIA, because they can play immediately.   if they are good enough for post college play for pay, the scouts will find them.   they dont have to be at a D1 school to "make it".  Ask dennis rodman or scottie pippen. 

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

I do I know the man personally or his work.  All I know is that he seems to get results on the cases that are high profile - see 2 Rams players.

A Title IX investigation is a completely different animal than a criminal proceeding and the people involved in the process might not be as enamored as you are with Rosenblum's ability to get a repeat DWI offender (who killed somebody on the first one) off on a technicality.

I'm not saying Rosenblum won't deliver for his clients on this, but lets at least considering the possibility that his involvement emboldened the other side and/or attracted support from Rosenblum's list of enemies.

Like I said, if he was truly as good as his BS reputation, this would have been over by Thanksgiving.

[Quality Is Job 1]

2 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Like I said, if he was truly as good as his BS reputation, this would have been over by Thanksgiving.

Except, maybe, for the fact that everyone's hands are supposedly tied by the specifications of complying with Title IX guidelines?

[JMM28]

6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

this is correct.   and if you are asking why the three of them would go down to D2 or NAIA, because they can play immediately.   if they are good enough for post college play for pay, the scouts will find them.   they dont have to be at a D1 school to "make it".  Ask dennis rodman or scottie pippen. 

Roy, I've seen you say this a handful of times. The guys you are referencing retired 15 years ago. The last D2/NAIA player in the NBA happened around 10 years ago. D2 and NAIA aren't the same as they once were because those schools now make up a lot of the 300+ D1 teams. None of these guys are NBA talents, but even the NBDL isn't taking guys from those schools. 

[RiseAndGrind]

5 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

A Title IX investigation is a completely different animal than a criminal proceeding and the people involved in the process might not be as enamored as you are with Rosenblum's ability to get a repeat DWI offender (who killed somebody on the first one) off on a technicality.

I'm not saying Rosenblum won't deliver for his clients on this, but lets at least considering the possibility that his involvement emboldened the other side and/or attracted support from Rosenblum's list of enemies.

Like I said, if he was truly as good as his BS reputation, this would have been over by Thanksgiving.

Rosenblum is very very good. 

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Roy, I've seen you say this a handful of times. The guys you are referencing retired 15 years ago. The last D2/NAIA player in the NBA happened around 10 years ago. D2 and NAIA aren't the same as they once were because those schools now make up a lot of the 300+ D1 teams. None of these guys are NBA talents, but even the NBDL isn't taking guys from those schools. 

I tend to agree, and this is why more than ever theres so much parity in D1. 

[billiken_roy]

my point is there is no waiting to switch divisions.   if there isnt any current D2 or NAIA players in the NBA that is probably more an example of more schools moving up to higher levels of play then there were years ago.    i would be surprised to hear there are no former D2 or NAIA players that are currently playing in europe or aisa or australia etc.   still the players have options they are not stuck having to wait this joke of a process out.   plus whatever long term earning are lost they can surely make up for in the lawsuit ms Krafty and slu have coming their way.  

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Actually seeking an injunction is not that long of a process.  It can be done in a matter of hours if you deem it necessary.  Yes I realize a lot more than I think you give me or others credit for.

Agree you could get an injunction quickly, but this was not done. 

[wgstl]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

my point is there is no waiting to switch divisions.   if there isnt any current D2 or NAIA players in the NBA that is probably more an example of more schools moving up to higher levels of play then there were years ago.    i would be surprised to hear there are no former D2 or NAIA players that are currently playing in europe or aisa or australia etc.   still the players have options they are not stuck having to wait this joke of a process out.   plus whatever long term earning are lost they can surely make up for in the lawsuit ms Krafty and slu have coming their way.  

I understand, but these players expect to average double digits at a high D1 level.  not like the goat jolly

[billiken_roy]

1 minute ago, wgstl said:

I understand, but these players expect to average double digits at a high D

well that isnt going to happen as practice players at the whim of mrs krafty

[STL Hoops Insider]

1 hour ago, JMM28 said:

Roy, I've seen you say this a handful of times. The guys you are referencing retired 15 years ago. The last D2/NAIA player in the NBA happened around 10 years ago. D2 and NAIA aren't the same as they once were because those schools now make up a lot of the 300+ D1 teams. None of these guys are NBA talents, but even the NBDL isn't taking guys from those schools. 

Current NBA player Derrick White actually played most of his career at the DII level.