GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY

[bauman]

I am very reluctant to make this post, given Kshoe's assessment that I don't want Thatch instead of Watson, which is a total misunderstanding of my position.  My position was merely that "I interpreted" the commitment of Thatch TO MEAN THAT I THOUGHT TF FELT THAT WE WERE NOT LIKELY TO GET A COMMITMENT FROM WATSON.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I am as big of Billiken fan as Kshoe, his brother, Sshoe and his father, Willie.  I went to school at SLU and have been a season ticket holder since my days as a student.  I want the program to succeed as much, or more than anyone on this Board.  Given that, I thought it was only right that I GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY.  First stop, Ste Genevieve tonight to see Thatch.  Next will be Gordan then Watson over the next 2 days. 

All I knew about Thatch was the discussion on this Board and his ranking by the various recruiting services.  I will acknowledge that my comments are based on a very small sample, but at least my comments are based on actual personal viewing.  I left the game shortly after the 3rd qtr began (Ste Gen is a long way from home) so clearly my "MBM opinion" is limited by that.  He is extremely athletic and that, combined with strong body make it clear that he has loads of potential.  However, to say that I was not impressed is an understatement.  He had 10 pts at 1/2 time, composed of 2/2 FT and 4 drives/layups, along with quite a few misses from 15 ft out and at least 3 turnovers

.  His judgment was not what you would expect to the point that his coach screamed at him and pulled him from the game mid-way thru the 2nd qtr.  He missed every shot from outside 3 ft and frankly was not the best player on his team.  Sikeston has a Soph guard, Kevin Jones, who is listed at 5' 11" and is the most athletic HS player I have seen in a long time.  On two or three rebounds he actually was up higher than Thatch.  Jones had every skill you might want and unbelievable desire.  You want to see fast-go see Jones play.  He completely controlled the game in the 1st half, something i was expecting to see from our recruit.

I don't know how the entire 2nd half went (Sikeston was up about 12 at half).  Thatch obviously has another year to develop and based on Ford's past, I'm sure he will work out to be a good addition to the program.  I hope we keep an eye on Jones!

I really thought I would be posting a very positive report, if not I wouldn't have made the 65 mile trip, but the above is what I saw.  Again, my observations are based on a short, one-time viewing and I hope it was just a bad night for our recruit.

 

[majerus mojo]

 

[thetorch]

It is nice to GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY but kids have bad games.

I checked out Liddell at Belleville West last week against EastSide.  I didn't come away too impressed.  Liddell looked like a tall sophomore and that was about it.  East Side scared him and he couldn't handle defensive pressure.  I was disappointed as I'd heard good things about him.

Last night he scored 43 going H2H with Illinois recruit Javon Pickett.  Obviously, I saw him an off night. He's 15, not going to look like stud every day.  Same goes for Thatch.

[3star_recruit]

My rule of thumb is to see a kid play 5 times.  Whitfield played Sikeston about a month ago and lost by 30 points. Thatch had 24 points, 11 rebounds, eight steals and five assists. Watson struggled, scoring 16 points on 5 of 15 shooting. If that what the only time I had seen Watson, I would assume that he was incredibly overrated.  But I know that's not true because I've been watching him play for 2 years. He was just off that afternoon.  Did playing a very good 4A opponent (Whitfield is 3A) have something to do with it?  Probably.

[Old guy]

3 star that is the significance of statistical analysis, any one observation may be skewed in some way, but a series of observations tends to give a correct view.

[kshoe]

Sorry to hear that you had an unfavorable impression, but you are certainly entitled to your opinions.

Sounds like Thatch ended up with 24 points and 9 rebounds. Maybe he had a better second half. I will concur with others suggesting one half of basketball probably isn't enough to judge a player. I don't have the time to go to many highschool games but remember my brother and I attending a Parkway North / UCity game 4 years ago and seeing DJ Johnson play for North. We both thought that he was OK but surely not worthy of SLU/Crews offering a scholarship. He ends up at K-State and is currently averaging 12 and 6 in the Big 12 and would almost certainly be our best player.

In the for what it's worth camp, I've heard the SLU staff feels about as good about Watson as they can about a player that hasn't yet narrowed his list and has big-time offers. Doesn't mean they'll necessarily get him but they certainly haven't thrown in the towel given the commitment of Thatch. I still contend your original statement that Thatch's commitment means we aren't getting Watson is misguided.

[SLURadioBoy]

33 minutes ago, kshoe said:

In the for what it's worth camp, I've heard the SLU staff feels about as good about Watson as they can about a player that hasn't yet narrowed his list and has big-time offers. Doesn't mean they'll necessarily get him but they certainly haven't thrown in the towel given the commitment of Thatch. I still contend your original statement that Thatch's commitment means we aren't getting Watson is misguided.

That's encouraging. Hopefully we be on his finalist list in a few weeks. I'm guessing that will come out at some point after his season is over. I would love to get Watson because elite scorers like that are hard to come by. If we don't get him though, I feel like we have a lot of other good options though like Davis, Reece, Tabbs, etc. As long as Gordon and Thatch stick with their commitments and we can add Watson or another solid player, this class will be very good. Obviously we don't have that third scholarship for 2018 available yet, but it seems like a foregone conclusion that at least Neufeld will be transferring.

[RiseAndGrind]

I went and saw Jayson Tatum last year and he had like 4 points. Tyler Cook dominated though.

However, i'm impressed you drove all the way down there. Props. Hope you had on your Billiken Blue! 

[wgstl]

I saw Gordon play the other week.  He went for 18/12.  Everyone has bad nights. 

[SShoe]

There's nothing worse than getting all amped up to see a prospective SLU recruit and see either a bad game from them or a game where they don't play much. I still vividly remember going to see Lisch play in the Shootout at Scottrade and he got like 3 fouls (2 incredibly cheap ones) in the first 4 minutes of the game.  He then sat for the remainder of the first half. Second half he played, but was clearly pressing to make up for missing the first half. 

Hopefully, what Bauman saw was a total fluke.  Given the numbers he's put up all year, I'll lean in that direction.

 

[kmbilliken]

I've seen Goodwin play about 10 times over the last three years and have always been impressed.I've seen Liddell once last year and twice this year. The year over year improvement has been significant which would be expected from high school freshman to sophomore. He is going to be a great player. I've seen Tillman 5 times. Once as a sophomore and four times this year. I've seen one game where he had significant impact. The other four he was okay, but certainly not the kind of impact you would expect from a player with his size and athleticism. That said, part of that is his team doesn't utilize him. If they pounded the ball inside I might have a different view of him.

[Pistol]

I'd echo what the others said above about sample size and will add this perspective (not having seen the game):

-Sikeston ended up winning by 21, 76-55.

-Thatch ended up with 24 points and 9 rebounds. He got into foul trouble, whistled for his fourth with a few minutes left in the third quarter. So he had more points in the second half despite that limitation, scoring 10 in the fourth quarter (by quarter, he had 8, 2, 4, and 10).

-From what I can tell, the pace of the game didn't really pick up until late in the third quarter, with Sikeston opened up a comfortable lead.

-Thatch now sits at 1,800 career points and is 4 rebounds away from Sikeston's all-time rebounding record.

-Sikeston plays Tuesday in Farmington against the Farmington-Hillsboro winner. I'm hoping for Hillsboro (2018 D-I recruit Gaven Pinkley), because that'll be a better test for Thatch & Co.

-I'll be sure to keep an eye on Jones' recruitment. He's small but this is the third time in a row I've heard good things about him. He ended up with 23 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 steals. He's only a sophomore but is already third on Sikeston's all-time steals list (Thatch is third). He has over 100 steals on the season.

[wgstl]

The dude is a 3*.  to expect a great show every night is sorta comical or he would have been a 4*+

[RiseAndGrind]

17 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'd echo what the others said above about sample size and will add this perspective (not having seen the game):

-Sikeston ended up winning by 21, 76-55.

-Thatch ended up with 24 points and 9 rebounds. He got into foul trouble, whistled for his fourth with a few minutes left in the third quarter. So he had more points in the second half despite that limitation, scoring 10 in the fourth quarter (by quarter, he had 8, 2, 4, and 10).

-From what I can tell, the pace of the game didn't really pick up until late in the third quarter, with Sikeston opened up a comfortable lead.

-Thatch now sits at 1,800 career points and is 4 rebounds away from Sikeston's all-time rebounding record.

-Sikeston plays Tuesday in Farmington against the Farmington-Hillsboro winner. I'm hoping for Hillsboro (2018 D-I recruit Gaven Pinkley), because that'll be a better test for Thatch & Co.

-I'll be sure to keep an eye on Jones' recruitment. He's small but this is the third time in a row I've heard good things about him. He ended up with 23 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 steals. He's only a sophomore but is already third on Sikeston's all-time steals list (Thatch is third). He has over 100 steals on the season.

For a 6'3 guard, this is more impressive than his scoring in my opinion. 

[757billiken]

With the caveat I'm in Virginia and can't see Thatch play in person, I have watched the game below.  I'm not too optimistic about Thatch but hopefully I'm wrong. He just doesn't look very explosive. If you watch the game, you can see he has a D1 body, bullies other guards, and gets most of his points inside. It doesn't look like he's a good shooter. Maybe he just doesn't need to be because he can score inside so easily. Maybe a Roosevelt Jones clone down the line....hopefully not Anthony Mitchell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcAh-FTQrrU

 

[wgstl]

Watson knows Thatch.  Watson knows if he is better or worse than Thatch.  If Watson wants to play for SLU, he will. For all we know, TF may think of Thatch as a solid backup with high ceiling. 

[3star_recruit]

40 minutes ago, 757billiken said:

With the caveat I'm in Virginia and can't see Thatch play in person, I have watched the game below.  I'm not too optimistic about Thatch but hopefully I'm wrong. He just doesn't look very explosive. If you watch the game, you can see he has a D1 body, bullies other guards, and gets most of his points inside. It doesn't look like he's a good shooter. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcAh-FTQrrU

 

If that's your reasoning,  then you're not going to like Goodwin either.

 

[Glorydays2013]

When thatch comes to slu, we will have a Senior Bess, foreman, AdH, Bishop, a Junior Jalen, Welmer, Graves and Zeke and Sophomore Goodwin and French. 

Gordon is immediate impact player and will start. Thatch will develop and will most likely not take a lot of minutes his freshmen year given the older talent he has in front of him. 

[757billiken]

46 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If that's your reasoning,  then you're not going to like Goodwin either.

 

I watched Goodwin play in Hampton, VA last year for the Eagles (EYBL). He's more explosive and tenacious. He didn't shy away from better players like Marvin Bagley. I didn't see that with Thatch. Just my opinion from watching both of them. Truth be told, I'm not overly-hyped over Goodwin either. Don't get me wrong, he's good and I hope he turns out to be Marcus Smartish, but there's a difference between playing against high schoolers and A-10ers. Goodwin held his own on the EYBL circuit. Hopefully Thatch does the same this summer.

[cgeldmacher]

Let's make an official correction: GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY5FULLGAMESALSOKNOWNAS10HALVESNOTJUSTONEHALF

[hoppybeer]

34 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Let's make an official correction: GOSEETHEKIDSPLAY5FULLGAMESALSOKNOWNAS10HALVESNOTJUSTONEHALF

Thanks for making the inner nerd in me laugh.

[Soderball]

1 hour ago, 757billiken said:

I watched Goodwin play in Hampton, VA last year for the Eagles (EYBL). He's more explosive and tenacious. He didn't shy away from better players like Marvin Bagley. I didn't see that with Thatch. Just my opinion from watching both of them. Truth be told, I'm not overly-hyped over Goodwin either. Don't get me wrong, he's good and I hope he turns out to be Marcus Smartish, but there's a difference between playing against high schoolers and A-10ers. Goodwin held his own on the EYBL circuit. Hopefully Thatch does the same this summer.

oh please. ive seen some of those a10-ers. a lot of them. they arent good. VCU and Dayton are good.. other than that..?

[TheChosenOne]

4 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I went and saw Jayson Tatum last year and he had like 4 points. Tyler Cook dominated though.

However, i'm impressed you drove all the way down there. Props. Hope you had on your Billiken Blue! 

What game did Tatum only score 4 points in?

[Glorydays2013]

12 minutes ago, Soderball said:

oh please. ive seen some of those a10-ers. a lot of them. they arent good. VCU and Dayton are good.. other than that..?

Yeah A10 is nothing without VCU and Dayton and soon to be SLU again. 

Also I don't know if there is something I hate more than people driving so far for a game and leave early to save 20 min, commit or don't. 

[Pistol]

1 minute ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Yeah A10 is nothing without VCU and Dayton and soon to be SLU again. 

Also I don't know if there is something I hate more than people driving so far for a game and leave early to save 20 min, commit or don't. 

Eh, stuff happens, people have kids, etc. I get it. I don't begrudge the OP anything. I think the consensus is just: small sample size. He didn't even see Thatch's best quarter, let alone game.

Plus, he's a junior. He's got a year to grow and develop other facets of his game, and an important year at that.