Incoming recruits - updates (2017)

[AnkielBreakers]

18 hours ago, brianstl said:

I don't mean to be an a$$.  I really don't.  I  think Hines should win every possible team post season award for what he did as a walk on.  But, this stuff is crazy.  Everyone is immaterial when your team is ranked in the 290's.

After the way Hines has played down the stretch this season, I would be surprised if Coach Ford doesn't give him a scholarship, if one comes available.  We are going to have three rebounding big men next year, this year we have one.  Johnson and Welmer have played well enough to provide at least one outside shooting big next year.  We will have a couple of good shooters at guard in Henriquez and Roby.  We will have two slashing small guards in Graves and Bishop.  We really do not have a proven true point guard other than Hines (maybe Roby).  Hines isn't perfect, but a pure point isn't usually a major scoring threat.  They pull the team together.  Hines has really improved in turnovers.  At times, like the first half yesterday, he looks out of his depth. However, it seems like he is not as much of a defensive liability.  Also, when he is on the court, the whole team can actually run a solid offense.  If a good fifth year point guard wants to come to SLU, then sure.  But, if you have a guy like Hines already coached to the position, it seems like a bad idea to assume Bishop or Graves can become a true point.  I think we all need to realize that physically gifted and talented players can look pretty average without a solid point guard.  St. Joe's definitely looked that way. 

[BillsBeliever!!!]

13 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

After the way Hines has played down the stretch this season, I would be surprised if Coach Ford doesn't give him a scholarship, if one comes available.  We are going to have three rebounding big men next year, this year we have one.  Johnson and Welmer have played well enough to provide at least one outside shooting big next year.  We will have a couple of good shooters at guard in Henriquez and Roby.  We will have two slashing small guards in Graves and Bishop.  We really do not have a proven true point guard other than Hines (maybe Roby).  Hines isn't perfect, but a pure point isn't usually a major scoring threat.  They pull the team together.  Hines has really improved in turnovers.  At times, like the first half yesterday, he looks out of his depth. However, it seems like he is not as much of a defensive liability.  Also, when he is on the court, the whole team can actually run a solid offense.  If a good fifth year point guard wants to come to SLU, then sure.  But, if you have a guy like Hines already coached to the position, it seems like a bad idea to assume Bishop or Graves can become a true point.  I think we all need to realize that physically gifted and talented players can look pretty average without a solid point guard.  St. Joe's definitely looked that way. 

As much as I love Hines, I just don't see him getting a scholarship that we could use on another big recruit

[Pistol]

2 hours ago, CBFan said:

Pistol you had some concerns about Jalen Johnson at the beginning of the season and I really respect your knowledge of players and I am wondering as the season comes to the end what your opinion is now.

The only thing I see with JJ is his shot looks kind of strange were it seems to release the ball from the middle of his body, I could be wrong about it but it looks different.

I think a lot of us did because he basically came out of nowhere. When you have a new coach come in and some transfers head out, and then some more transfers heading our way, there's always a question of what happens with the remaining slots for the upcoming year. And all of a sudden, here's this lightly recruited kid out of Louisiana who none of us had heard of, and there wasn't a ton of video and most of the info I could find was local article kind of stuff about how well his HS team was performing.

Even as the season started, I think a lot of us still worried about his frame, how he fit in positionally, and whether he was ready - he had plenty of shaky games early on, looking lost on offense and getting burned defensively. He really looked overwhelmed out there for a while. I wondered if we had reached on him, and whether he'd be able to stick around with more talent on the way.

But I had no idea what a hard worker the kid was. His confidence has gone from near zero to upperclassman leader. He's taking and making big shots (honestly, how good does it look when he spots up and buries a 3? I'll grant you that his shot is still a little unorthodox, but by the time he releases it when he's open and set, you can't help but think it's going in). He's working harder to disrupt passing lanes and shots at the other end. Everything I hear is that he's the first one at practice, last one to leave and it's really showing. When Ford called him "baby Tayshaun Prince" or something like that earlier this year, I kind of rolled my eyes. But damn if I'm not starting to see it.*

We never saw a freshman with an arc like this under Crews. He didn't really develop anybody. So I give JJ the most credit, but Ford, too. Clearly he's providing the motivation and resources to reward a young player putting in the time.

*Just so no one misunderstands me: He has a long, long way to go to be actual Tayshaun Prince, who was amazing, and unless he grows taller and longer, that's still probably out of the question.

[CBFan]

Thank you very much for your opinion Pistol about JJ.

[bauman]

5 hours ago, Pistol said:

^Hasahn French highlights from CA's game at South Kent. Sure, maybe a couple "blocks" were goaltends, but who cares? Great stuff here - running the floor, handling the ball, finishing in all kinds of ways, including a couple nice dunks, and even a good looking 3 from the corner.

Welmer needs to watch and see that it is possible to score from w/in 2 ft. and even dunk.  French brings us abilities that we haven't seen in a Bills uniform since Willie Reed or anyone else that I can remember in the last 20+ yrs.  Come on 2017-18!

[Duff Man]

Been a while since the Bills have had someone who can dunk like this...Mo Jeffers?

[cheeseman]

3 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

After the way Hines has played down the stretch this season, I would be surprised if Coach Ford doesn't give him a scholarship, if one comes available.  We are going to have three rebounding big men next year, this year we have one.  Johnson and Welmer have played well enough to provide at least one outside shooting big next year.  We will have a couple of good shooters at guard in Henriquez and Roby.  We will have two slashing small guards in Graves and Bishop.  We really do not have a proven true point guard other than Hines (maybe Roby).  Hines isn't perfect, but a pure point isn't usually a major scoring threat.  They pull the team together.  Hines has really improved in turnovers.  At times, like the first half yesterday, he looks out of his depth. However, it seems like he is not as much of a defensive liability.  Also, when he is on the court, the whole team can actually run a solid offense.  If a good fifth year point guard wants to come to SLU, then sure.  But, if you have a guy like Hines already coached to the position, it seems like a bad idea to assume Bishop or Graves can become a true point.  I think we all need to realize that physically gifted and talented players can look pretty average without a solid point guard.  St. Joe's definitely looked that way. 

 Sorry, if Ford has to give a schollie to Hines next year I will be sorely disappointed in his recruiting ability.  The way Hines played yesterday except for the last 5 minutes or so is proof enough that he is not the answer and needs to be recruited over.  He can be on the team as a walk on and have all the fun he wants and Ford can use the schollie for real point guard.

[NextYearBill]

9 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

 Sorry, if Ford has to give a schollie to Hines next year I will be sorely disappointed in his recruiting ability.  

Yeah.... im disappointed in his recruiting thus far also...

[cheeseman]

3 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

Yeah.... im disappointed in his recruiting thus far also...

You need to reread my post - I never said I was disappointed in Ford - what I said was if he can not recruit over Hines I would be sorely disappointed.

[billikenfan05]

20 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

You need to reread my post - I never said I was disappointed in Ford - what I said was if he can not recruit over Hines I would be sorely disappointed.

I've said it before that Hines could be a valuable asset to a "completely new" team next year. He's run this offense in a competitive environment and can mentor Goodwin and Graves. 

[HoosierPal]

17 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I've said it before that Hines could be a valuable asset to a "completely new" team next year. He's run this offense in a competitive environment and can mentor Goodwin and Graves. 

I agree with you that Hines has a place on next season's squad.  I don't see him on a hoops scholarship, but his financial situation doesn't seem to be a problem for his family as he has paid for two years.  To me Coach has a dilemma for next season at point guard.  Assuming all players return and no immediately eligible PG is brought on board, here is what we have for experience from players that have or could play PG.

Player    Games Played in College

Roby       91 games to date - maybe 10% of his time at PG?  206 career assists

Hines      52 games to date - probably 95% at PG  118 career assists

Bess       44 games to date - apparently played sporadically at PG - 34 career assists.

Bishop    36 games to date - probably 75% at PG  104 career assists

Graves   11 games to date - unknown amount at PG  18 career assists

Goodwin   0 games to date

 

[bauman]

Mentoring Goodwin and Graves???  REALLY???  Two highly recruited players, including the highest rated recruit we have gotten to sign with SLU since The Legend, are going to be mentored by a walk on who is only playing the time and role he is playing due to an injury (Bishop)  and departures by Crews level-recruited guards?  I can just hear Coach Ford welcoming Goodwin to his first practice and telling him to watch and learn from Aaron Hines!  What universe are you living in? 

If by "running the offense" you mean dribbling the ball for excessive periods of time and then forcing a poor shot by himself or whoever he passes the ball to with 3 seconds left on the shot clock then yes, he is just what we need..  I have no idea what a few posters see as being an acceptable point guard, but Hines has solved his turnover problem by taking wild shots rather than taking a turnover.  If we need him on the team next year then we will be far less than we are all projecting the team to be. 

As I said in another thread a few days ago, Hines needs to understand that he could walk on next year, but Ford is not going to invest a scholarship in him just because one might seem to be available at the beginning of the year.  If he had done that this year, he would not have been able to land Graves.

Hines, if he can graduate in May, needs to look for a scholarship opportunity at a lower level D 1 team or a D 2 team that he can go to as a graduate transfer.  If not then he certainly will be welcome as a walk on next year by Ford, but not a scholarship player or a mentor to anyone else on the team.

Having said all that, thanks Aaron for your contributions this year at a time when you were needed due to roster limitations (4 transfers), poor prior use of scholarships by Crews (AG and MN) and an injury.

[bauman]

5 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I agree with you that Hines has a place on next season's squad.  I don't see him on a hoops scholarship, but his financial situation doesn't seem to be a problem for his family as he has paid for two years.  To me Coach has a dilemma for next season at point guard.  Assuming all players return and no immediately eligible PG is brought on board, here is what we have for experience from players that have or could play PG.

Player    Games Played in College

Roby       91 games to date - maybe 10% of his time at PG?  206 career assists

Hines      52 games to date - probably 95% at PG  118 career assists

Bess       44 games to date - apparently played sporadically at PG - 34 career assists.

Bishop    36 games to date - probably 75% at PG  104 career assists

Graves   11 games to date - unknown amount at PG  18 career assists

Goodwin   0 games to date

 

You are forgetting Moore, also.  I see four that can start the year at PG for some period of time each game until Graves (a true PG) can play.  Bishop, Moore, Roby and Goodwin can cover that position until Graves is eligible

[billikenfan05]

21 minutes ago, bauman said:

Mentoring Goodwin and Graves???  REALLY???  Two highly recruited players, including the highest rated recruit we have gotten to sign with SLU since The Legend, are going to be mentored by a walk on who is only playing the time and role he is playing due to an injury (Bishop)  and departures by Crews level-recruited guards?  I can just hear Coach Ford welcoming Goodwin to his first practice and telling him to watch and learn from Aaron Hines!  What universe are you living in? 

If by "running the offense" you mean dribbling the ball for excessive periods of time and then forcing a poor shot by himself or whoever he passes the ball to with 3 seconds left on the shot clock then yes, he is just what we need..  I have no idea what a few posters see as being an acceptable point guard, but Hines has solved his turnover problem by taking wild shots rather than taking a turnover.  If we need him on the team next year then we will be far less than we are all projecting the team to be. 

As I said in another thread a few days ago, Hines needs to understand that he could walk on next year, but Ford is not going to invest a scholarship in him just because one might seem to be available at the beginning of the year.  If he had done that this year, he would not have been able to land Graves.

Hines, if he can graduate in May, needs to look for a scholarship opportunity at a lower level D 1 team or a D 2 team that he can go to as a graduate transfer.  If not then he certainly will be welcome as a walk on next year by Ford, but not a scholarship player or a mentor to anyone else on the team.

Having said all that, thanks Aaron for your contributions this year at a time when you were needed due to roster limitations (4 transfers), poor prior use of scholarships by Crews (AG and MN) and an injury.

I really don't have the energy to argue with you but if we don't have a player ready to sign for next season and an open 'ship it never hurts your young players to have someone to lead them on how o act on and off the court. 

[BillsBeliever!!!]

35 minutes ago, bauman said:

Mentoring Goodwin and Graves???  REALLY???  Two highly recruited players, including the highest rated recruit we have gotten to sign with SLU since The Legend, are going to be mentored by a walk on who is only playing the time and role he is playing due to an injury (Bishop)  and departures by Crews level-recruited guards?  I can just hear Coach Ford welcoming Goodwin to his first practice and telling him to watch and learn from Aaron Hines!  What universe are you living in? 

If by "running the offense" you mean dribbling the ball for excessive periods of time and then forcing a poor shot by himself or whoever he passes the ball to with 3 seconds left on the shot clock then yes, he is just what we need..  I have no idea what a few posters see as being an acceptable point guard, but Hines has solved his turnover problem by taking wild shots rather than taking a turnover.  If we need him on the team next year then we will be far less than we are all projecting the team to be. 

 

I have watched every game this season and since he began playing point guard, our teams energy and motivation has skyrocketed. He might be the best walk-on in the nation, and has really stepped up to lead this team since Bishop got hurt. I don't know what planet you're on, but that "running the offense" you are talking about is the offensive that Ford is telling the team to run, and it has gotten us more conference wins than anyone expected. Also, the two incoming freshman may be good, but they aren't going to score 20+ points the first time they step in the court. Hines is a great leader and DOES deserve a place on this team next year, even if it is motivating the players from the bench 

[3star_recruit]

40 minutes ago, BillsBeliever!!! said:

Also, the two incoming freshman may be good, but they aren't going to score 20+ points the first time they step in the court.

Depends on who we play. If we open up with a blood donor, Goodwin could get close.

[NextYearBill]

Hines lovers.... i will bet $100 that Hines will not see PT in the 1st half of any game ever again for SLU after this season. 

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, bauman said:

You are forgetting Moore, also.  I see four that can start the year at PG for some period of time each game until Graves (a true PG) can play.  Bishop, Moore, Roby and Goodwin can cover that position until Graves is eligible

True on Moore.  His minutes at PG have been few and far between this season, but I would not mind seeing him get a chance. 

Ford has called Graves an athletic shooter who can play both guard positions.  I have never heard him call Graves a true PG.  The problem is Graves only had two good games at BC, so it is tough to define him one way or the other based on past performance.  He had 28 of his 53 total points and 7 of his 18 total assists in those two games.  His other 9 games weren't noteworthy.  His assist to turnover ratio was a lackluster 1:1, but again a small sample size.

[AnkielBreakers]

4 minutes ago, NextYearBill said:

Hines lovers.... i will bet $100 that Hines will not see PT in the 1st half of any game ever again for SLU after this season. 

If he is back, then I would take that bet and push you to a $1,000.  Everything about Hines' game matches up with Mike McCall, except scoring average.  Hines .340, McCall .400.  Hines is not as great on defense, but he isn't horrible anymore.  McCall was a great point guard.  Hines definitely has done enough to expect PT next year.

[HoosierBilliken]

7 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

After the way Hines has played down the stretch this season, I would be surprised if Coach Ford doesn't give him a scholarship, if one comes available.

One will not be available for Hines.  The scholarship will go to a better player.  Hines' reward is playing time this year.  JJ, Crawford, and him are my favorite players at this point.  Just being realistic.       

[bauman]

1 hour ago, BillsBeliever!!! said:

I have watched every game this season and since he began playing point guard, our teams energy and motivation has skyrocketed. He might be the best walk-on in the nation, and has really stepped up to lead this team since Bishop got hurt. I don't know what planet you're on, but that "running the offense" you are talking about is the offensive that Ford is telling the team to run, and it has gotten us more conference wins than anyone expected. Also, the two incoming freshman may be good, but they aren't going to score 20+ points the first time they step in the court. Hines is a great leader and DOES deserve a place on this team next year, even if it is motivating the players from the bench 

Thanks, Mr. Hines.  BEST WALK ON IN THE NATION!  Ya right.  I have no problem with him on the bench next year if that's what he wants, but playing ahead of Bishop, Goodwin or Graves (and mentoring as suggested by Mrs. Hines, above) is the definition of insanity.  Hey we are planning on being very good next year and that cannot/will not happen if we use the walk-on quality PG of an awful team as the PG on next years team or even play him any meaningful minutes.

BTW, I don't think our coach tells Hines to dribble the ball incessantly until we are in trouble with the shot clock.  I don't think I have ever heard Ford, or any other coach, employ that as their team's offense.

[CBFan]

## Player         gp-gs  min   avg   fg-fga   fg%  3fg-fga   3fg%   ft-fta     ft%  off  def  tot  avg  pf  dq  a   to  blk  stl  pts  avg

24  HINES, Aaron  29-20    802     27.7    66-193   . 3 4 2     30-86      . 3 4 9      36-55   .  6 5 5    8     58   66    2.3    58    2    71     48    1     26   198    6.8

Hines made a big play in the St. Joe's game that was the type of game were every contribution mattered for the win.

I agree the point guard does not have to be the big scoring threat but they have to run the offense and pile up the assists and score enough to keep teams defense honest.  In the St. Joes game Hines took too many shots early in the shot clock without a pass to anyone.  It irritates me when he does this because his shooting percentage is .342 overall.  Coach Ford took Hines out of the game and the team continued to score.

I hope Hines comes back for depth but if the team needs him to play a lot then they probably will not be dancing.

[NextYearBill]

1 hour ago, AnkielBreakers said:

If he is back, then I would take that bet and push you to a $1,000.  Everything about Hines' game matches up with Mike McCall, except scoring average.  Hines .340, McCall .400.  Hines is not as great on defense, but he isn't horrible anymore.  McCall was a great point guard.  Hines definitely has done enough to expect PT next year.

BET!!!!!! you are out of your mind!... saving this post... if he is back next year i will make this bet with you

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, NextYearBill said:

Hines lovers.... i will bet $100 that Hines will not see PT in the 1st half of any game ever again for SLU after this season. 

Hey NextYearBill, I think you are making this bet ahead of time. I am not talking about Hines playing or not playing next year because of his merits, not at all. I am talking about weird unanticipated events happening. Let explain it it this way to you. Assume for a that Goodwin cannot start practicing or playing by the start of next season because his shoulder is not fully healed. This is not likely to happen but it could happen. Also assume that Bishop decides to transfer because he prefers to be a star somewhere else rather than just another PG for SLU. Again, I do not think this is likely to happen but it could happen. If both of these conditions occur, Ty Graves cannot start playing until the second half of next year season. Given these unexpected events who do you think might be getting playing time as a PG if there is no one else to do this job? I would say Hines might. Again probabilities are very low for this chain of events ever happening, and you are probably correct in assuming that Hines is not likely to play next season when other PGs are available. But in the unlikely situation that we need a PG to play when no one else is available, then Hines may well come in, would you not agree? Again this is not likely to happen but it might.

I am not taking your bet, I think you are probably correct in your assessment, but weird things do happen.

[RUBillsFan]

If (when?) one or more players transfer after this season, we will have at least one scholarship open for 2017-18.  Based on Pistols info it doesn't seem like we're going after any 2017 recruits that hard, but we are going after a few 2018 guys.  Is it that unreasonable to think that Ford would rather give an open scholarship to Hines for one season and have it available for a 2018 player he really wants than lock in a scholarship for 4 years on a 2017 player he doesn't like as much?