#FireJimCrews

[Billboy1]

+1

[hsmith19]

If a kid is a good player from STL then great, but if he's average and we are just giving offers to local kids hoping one day we get a star player to come here based on a solid relationship then keep dreaming. If a kid can't play he can't play. Who cares if we hurt someone else's feelings? This isn't a charity

I care if we hurt the feelings of people who can affect our recruiting process. It's not like we have a whole lot of room for error there, especially now. Gillmann's not very good, but he's also not the reason this team sucks. Manning was a worse center and played on three tournament teams.

[Soderball]

mike mccall as a freshman was 2000x faster than bishop and a far better passer and shooter. what you are seeing from bishop is a comparison to the rest of this horrible roster. the fact he cannot keep any player in front of him defensively tells you all you need to know about his lateral quickness. to insinuate that freshman mccall = bishop is insane. mccall, jett, evans and loe no doubt improved a lot from freshman year until their senior seasons, but let's not compare them to anyone on this roster please. we do not have a comparable player on this roster.

roby and yarbrough sitting is a very bad sign. no information, but the fact neither played considering their athleticism and size compared to the rest of the roster speaks volumes. this whole scenario rings very close to the last year of grawer when players were walking off the floor in games, transferring in the dead of night, etc. the difference is that grawers bad boys were actually decent players who just had bad attitudes. here we have bad players with apparently bad attitudes. that boggles my mind. these kids are dreaming if they think they have any professional basketball future, one would think getting a degree at one of the best catholic universities in the world would be incentive enough to "do their jobs" in a mature fashion. instead they get themselves benched and suspended?

i have never been an advocate of "running off players". imo, it is the job of the coach to coach talent and develop them the best they can be improved, afterall the coach brought them here. but i have also said, if they are not good students, if they are not good citizens if they are not good teamates, the deal should be off. how close we are to the deal being "off" is anyone's guess as slu hasnt given us any details. but no doubt there is a storm brewing.

HOLY S#&@!!!!!!

Folks, billiken_roy has just advocated ditching current members of the roster. This is unreal.

For board newbies, this is the vanguard of the defenders of Sodie's Rejects: Brett Thompson being a standout. This poster defended endlessly against Rickma's assault on the bad players Uncle Brad left around.

That same poster is now making rumblings about ditching Crews' godawful recruits. This is historic.

It shows just how bad we have gotten under Crews. Soderberg's rejects were far stronger, more skilled, and more athletic than the guys we have now.

[brianstl]

Thompson was a Majerus recruit.

[billiken_roy]

HOLY S#&@!!!!!!

Folks, billiken_roy has just advocated ditching current members of the roster. This is unreal.

For board newbies, this is the vanguard of the defenders of Sodie's Rejects: Brett Thompson being a standout. This poster defended endlessly against Rickma's assault on the bad players Uncle Brad left around.

That same poster is now making rumblings about ditching Crews' godawful recruits. This is historic.

It shows just how bad we have gotten under Crews. Soderberg's rejects were far stronger, more skilled, and more athletic than the guys we have now.

No, there is a big difference. Running a player off that is a good kid but a bad basketball player is flat out wrong. Examples reynolds or gillmann who are by all accounts great students and examples of great citizens and great teamates if they want to be billikens until they graduate, imo they should never be told their scholarships are revoked.

But any player that doesn't do the job in the classroom academically or gets in trouble or is a bad teamate detrimental to the team I have no problem taking that scholarship no matter how good they are on the court, example willie reed.

Are any of our current players bad students, citizens or teamates? We don't know.

[slufanskip]

No, there is a big difference. Running a player off that is a good kid but a bad basketball player is flat out wrong. Examples reynolds or gillmann who are by all accounts great students and examples of great citizens and great teamates if they want to be billikens until they graduate, imo they should never be told their scholarships are revoked.

But any player that doesn't do the job in the classroom academically or gets in trouble or is a bad teamate detrimental to the team I have no problem taking that scholarship no matter how good they are on the court, example willie reed.

Are any of our current players bad students, citizens or teamates? We don't know.

What if they are good kids, make good grades, etc... except they don't work hard in practice or put out the effort to improve. Do they get to stay or should they be required to work diligently to improve their basketball skills?

[jbizzle09]

In my humble opinion, some (most?) of these players may not be as devoid of talent as many believe.

Sure, Jolly is a lost cause and Gillman is weaker than my 80+ year old grandmother, but many of the others probably could be decent A-10 level players with the proper coaching and direction. It seems like only Reynolds has actually played to the max of his abilities. Even Crawford could probably be a better overall player, especially defensively, if he had halfway-decent tutelage. But I feel like Roby, Milik, Bartley and Agbeko would all be far, far, far better under a different coach, and we wouldn't be talking about how woefully untalented the team appears to be.

All we need to do is look at McBroom and Grandy. I know, they transferred to schools in smaller conferences. (Big Sky and WAC) However, they are possibly the best players on their respective teams. McBroom is averaging 19.4 points and 3.4 assists per game, while shooting 45.1% from three and 45.6% overall. Glaze is averaging 13.9 points and 7.4 rebounds a contest to go with a robust 63.5% shooting percentage.

Is this current crop of SLU players good? Eh. But they could be a whole lot more productive, and compose a winning team, if they were coached properly.

[DeSmetBilliken]

In my humble opinion, some (most?) of these players may not be as devoid of talent as many believe.

Sure, Jolly is a lost cause and Gillman is weaker than my 80+ year old grandmother, but many of the others probably could be decent A-10 level players with the proper coaching and direction. It seems like only Reynolds has actually played to the max of his abilities. Even Crawford could probably be a better overall player, especially defensively, if he had halfway-decent tutelage. But I feel like Roby, Milik, Bartley and Agbeko would all be far, far, far better under a different coach, and we wouldn't be talking about how woefully untalented the team appears to be.

All we need to do is look at McBroom and Grandy. I know, they transferred to schools in smaller conferences. (Big Sky and WAC) However, they are possibly the best players on their respective teams. McBroom is averaging 19.4 points and 3.4 assists per game, while shooting 45.1% from three and 45.6% overall. Glaze is averaging 13.9 points and 7.4 rebounds a contest to go with a robust 63.5% shooting percentage.

Is this current crop of SLU players good? Eh. But they could be a whole lot more productive, and compose a winning team, if they were coached properly.

I think if Majerus coached a number of these guys, they'd either be better players or he'd have run them off by the end of their freshman year.

[slufanskip]

In my humble opinion, some (most?) of these players may not be as devoid of talent as many believe.

Sure, Jolly is a lost cause and Gillman is weaker than my 80+ year old grandmother, but many of the others probably could be decent A-10 level players with the proper coaching and direction. It seems like only Reynolds has actually played to the max of his abilities. Even Crawford could probably be a better overall player, especially defensively, if he had halfway-decent tutelage. But I feel like Roby, Milik, Bartley and Agbeko would all be far, far, far better under a different coach, and we wouldn't be talking about how woefully untalented the team appears to be.

All we need to do is look at McBroom and Grandy. I know, they transferred to schools in smaller conferences. (Big Sky and WAC) However, they are possibly the best players on their respective teams. McBroom is averaging 19.4 points and 3.4 assists per game, while shooting 45.1% from three and 45.6% overall. Glaze is averaging 13.9 points and 7.4 rebounds a contest to go with a robust 63.5% shooting percentage.

Is this current crop of SLU players good? Eh. But they could be a whole lot more productive, and compose a winning team, if they were coached properly.

+1. Been saying this all along. Except Reynolds there isn't a player who seems better than he was his 1st day of practice as a Frosh ... and we all liked them a lot back then

[RiseAndGrind]

The team got worse as the season progressed last year. I don't think it's a coincidence the players get worse the more time they spend with Crews

[TheChosenOne]

... and we all liked them a lot back then

Before you actually saw them play?

I honestly don't remember being overly high on any of the kids in that class, but who cares.

[kmbilliken]

I think Yarborough can be a good power forward with the right coaching. He needs to be told he's not a point guard. He needs to play inside, block out, rebound and defend. He has good enough ability to average double figures scoring and 7+ rebounds per game with the right attitude and coaching. Gillmann has salvageable skills as does Roby.

This team isn't loaded with talent, but it has some and is playing below its talent level. No way these guys shouldn't have been able to put together 12 wins for the season, but it doesn't look like they will get more than 8. Crews just can't seem to get through to these guys and they have quit on him. If they haven't bought in by now, they aren't going to. Crews has got to go. The sooner, the better.

[Soderball]

No, there is a big difference. Running a player off that is a good kid but a bad basketball player is flat out wrong. Examples reynolds or gillmann who are by all accounts great students and examples of great citizens and great teamates if they want to be billikens until they graduate, imo they should never be told their scholarships are revoked.

But any player that doesn't do the job in the classroom academically or gets in trouble or is a bad teamate detrimental to the team I have no problem taking that scholarship no matter how good they are on the court, example willie reed.

Are any of our current players bad students, citizens or teamates? We don't know.

I think we can agree that Jolly just sucks in every way, thats at least 1 schollie we can get back.

Reed had the chance to stay. He wasnt willing to double down on academics. Freshman courses are not hard. Been there, done that. The Situation sucked, but having KM that extra year helped. Having WR would have helped too. He wasnt at the time willing to invest in himself. His own fault only.

Miles can play so that point is moot.

I wouldnt be upset to see Gillman gone, particularly if he is unwilling to make the investment in himself to become stronger. I firmly believe he can if he wants to, but we haven't really seen much yet.

I would add that these ARE athletic scholarships and predicated on guys being commited to athletics.

Gillman isn't here to become a brain surgeon. It is not an academic scholarship.

He is also not the entire trainwreck Jolly is.

[Soderball]

Thompson was a Majerus recruit.[/quote

Was he? Did he first get recruited by UB and then Majerus let himbin or was he recruited outright? I remember the banquet where his bodyfat was brought up. God I loved Majerus. Everything was irrelevant compared to good, fundamental basketball. The new era of coachspeak we have is terrible.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Thompson was a Majerus recruit.[/quote

Was he? Did he first get recruited by UB and then Majerus let himbin or was he recruited outright? I remember the banquet where his bodyfat was brought up. God I loved Majerus. Everything was irrelevant compared to good, fundamental basketball. The new era of coachspeak we have is terrible.

Thompson was recruited by both Soderberg and Majerus. Soderberg got it started, and then after Majerus got hired, he closed the deal. As I understood it, Thompson was likely to commit before Soderberg was fired.

[slufanskip]

Before you actually saw them play?

I honestly don't remember being overly high on any of the kids in that class, but who cares.

Seriously? Almost the entire board was high on this recruiting class and the rankings of the players were as good as any previous class. Go back and read some threads. Is that a guarantee, of course not, but I think it does say something about their talent coming in. I don't remember your particular stance, so kudos to you if you were an exception but the board as a whole was high on the class. I'm not going to argue it, but I believe if this class was coached by RM you'd see a much better team and probably 18 + wins.

[brianstl]

Brett was part of the Reed, Mitchell, Cassity, Conklin, John recruiting class. He was actually a highly ranked recruit when we signed him. He was the highest ranked Rivals recruit we signed during Rickma's time at SLU.

[Box and Won]

Thompson was recruited by both Soderberg and Majerus. Soderberg got it started, and then after Majerus got hired, he closed the deal. As I understood it, Thompson was likely to commit before Soderberg was fired.

Brad's last gift to the program.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Brad's last gift to the program.

I think Karma might be his last (or lasting) gift, as even I find myself (west) pining for the days of Soderberg.

[Taj79]

Here's a New year's Resolution ---- much like pro sports figures will tell you they "never read the papers," so too should we all resolve never to read the recruiting grades, articles, blogs, whatever. Because it just doesn't matter. I recall Brett Thompson being a 4 star recruit. Ash Yacoubou was a four star recruit. Three stars. Two stars. No stars. Who cares? The point is a lot can go wrong between that ranking and reality. Grandy Glaze was a three star recruit as I recall. Did he put out three star numbers? Baniak and Justin Tatum were three-star recruits. Overinflated because of the Hughes connection? I think so.

So much can go wrong ---- from coaching, to lack of development, to overrating, to team play, to coachability, to whatever. And its a team game. How do the five individual parts mesh as a whole? Majerus had his system to inculcate guys into. This guy apparently either does not, or is stymied by the members of his team for whatever reason.

I just don't see it ----- Lancona, Agbeko, Crawford, Yarbrough, Bartley, Reynolds, Gillmann, Jolly, Roby, Neufeld, and Bishop. That is the Crews legacy right now. Then Moore.

Think of the guys we were once mentioned in the hunt for: JP Macura of Xavier, Riley LaChance of Vandy, Steve McIlvane of Dayton, Kelan Martin of Butler, and, of course, the godson. Not no more.

[Pistol]

Think of the guys we were once mentioned in the hunt for: JP Macura of Xavier, Riley LaChance of Vandy, Steve McIlvane of Dayton, Kelan Martin of Butler, and, of course, the godson. Not no more.

Macura (and his teammate Sean O'Mara) and LaChance had offers but we weren't a finalist for either. We were closer on McElvene and Martin said he was about 50-50 between us and Butler and went that way. Same for Remy Abell with Xavier. We were close on that Roberson kid at Vandy, too, who I liked a lot when we played them last season.

Gotta close the deal.

[Cowboy]

Gotta close the deal.

-it is key that the next coach be able to do that with quality kids who are players able to have success

-I don't care so much if they are local or not

[Bobby Metzinger]

Here's a New year's Resolution ---- much like pro sports figures will tell you they "never read the papers," so too should we all resolve never to read the recruiting grades, articles, blogs, whatever. Because it just doesn't matter. I recall Brett Thompson being a 4 star recruit. Ash Yacoubou was a four star recruit. Three stars. Two stars. No stars. Who cares? The point is a lot can go wrong between that ranking and reality. Grandy Glaze was a three star recruit as I recall. Did he put out three star numbers? Baniak and Justin Tatum were three-star recruits. Overinflated because of the Hughes connection? I think so.

So much can go wrong ---- from coaching, to lack of development, to overrating, to team play, to coachability, to whatever. And its a team game. How do the five individual parts mesh as a whole? Majerus had his system to inculcate guys into. This guy apparently either does not, or is stymied by the members of his team for whatever reason.

I just don't see it ----- Lancona, Agbeko, Crawford, Yarbrough, Bartley, Reynolds, Gillmann, Jolly, Roby, Neufeld, and Bishop. That is the Crews legacy right now. Then Moore.

Think of the guys we were once mentioned in the hunt for: JP Macura of Xavier, Riley LaChance of Vandy, Steve McIlvane of Dayton, Kelan Martin of Butler, and, of course, the godson. Not no more.

Great post, Taj. But what about all the recruiting info posted on here? Do we just turn a blind eye to it? The lifeblood of any successful collegiate athletic program is system recruiting. Majerus could pull a 2-star recruit and we wouldn't worry because the "great molder of clay into pottery" style of coaching he implemented. However, when Crews dips the wrong chalice into the well and drinks from the 2-star pool, the Keeper of the Grail says "he chose poorly," and all hell breaks loose.

You hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points here, but recruiting has been something most Bills fans have been worried about with Crews from Day 1. The track record of his previous stops suggests all those worries have come home to roost here at the U.

[kwyjibo]

I will admit to having a similar prejudice in the past but there has been some work to show that there is correlation with amount of stars and "success". There would be lots of caveats (it is hard to come up with a good measure of success in many aspects) and different ratings systems are undoubtedly better than others* but there is some general significant value (some talent or lack of talent is afterall obvious). The key issue is that recruiting stars do relate to success BUT there is more variance than people realize (so it can appear to be useless).

*One thing I find fascinating is like product marketers people refer to a player by the best ranking they receive (so if a player is evaluated by 5 services as 1 star and 1 service as 2 star the player, fans and signing team refer to that player as 2 star.

Here's a New year's Resolution ---- much like pro sports figures will tell you they "never read the papers," so too should we all resolve never to read the recruiting grades, articles, blogs, whatever. Because it just doesn't matter. I recall Brett Thompson being a 4 star recruit. Ash Yacoubou was a four star recruit. Three stars. Two stars. No stars. Who cares? The point is a lot can go wrong between that ranking and reality. Grandy Glaze was a three star recruit as I recall. Did he put out three star numbers? Baniak and Justin Tatum were three-star recruits. Overinflated because of the Hughes connection? I think so.

[MB73]

The star system is a very good resource but I agree it is certainly not entirely accurate, and big miscalculations do occur.

The higher the star rating, the higher the likeliness of it's accuracy. So a 5* is well scouted but still might in fact be a lesser *; a 3* is more likely to be a miscalculation, and 2*'s, who knows?

I think the best indicator is how many legitimate offers a player gets from good schools, either power conferences or mid majors with a high basketball success rate, though a lot of the offers come in later in the process with some.

So in our soph class, DR and MY were 3*'s with most services, and also had numerous offers from Big 10 and SEC schools (Iowa, Ark, Minny, Auburn, Ill,,,)

Others in the 2014 class were 3* and 2* but got few offers and / or mostly from much lower level conference schools.

I would say look at the star ratings + what actual offers the kid got from which schools.

And you cannot usually measure what a kid will do once he gets to school... his heart, will he commit to basketball 100%, weight/strengthening/conditioning 12 months a year, practice on his own, listen to the coach and be a good team player? And of course, the coaching matters significantly. Some 2*'s get better every year, some higher rated players do not improve... knuckleheads.