Keneseaw State Game Thread plus Postgame Analysis

[Cowboy]

-torch isn't tough in a team sport to have so many mistakes be the sole responsibility of one player like you heaped on KC?

-did he make mistakes? sure, but for one the inbounder can't just throw the ball in bounds, someone needs to get open

-a question - the rule is that a team has 10 seconds to get the ball over the half court line, i understand it is frustrating when we have a couple 10 second calls but isn't screaming "get it over" at the 6 count with the ball at the hash is a bit uncalled for?

-a second question - isn't a bit inconsistent to scream "let 'em play" and then moments later scream "that was a foul?"

[kevtsmith]

Solid win today. Kennesaw is a good team - athletic, quick, and good shooters, they will do well in their conference and it will be intersesting how they do against ND. They were better than Nebraska.

WR's first half defense (5 blocks on the game) forced KSU to be perimeter oriented. They knocked down some shots, but for the most part were afraid to come inside. KC's four 3's were nice to see, but credit KM and CS for penetrating and giving him open looks - 6 assists each. KC has a very slow release on his shot, which didn't matter today because all his looks were wide open, but will in the A-10.

Some posts are griping about the 16 turnovers. I disagree. That's not a lot considering they were pressed for 40 minutes against an athletic team who clearly wanted to speed up the pace. When KM was out, we had a backcourt of KC, JJ, and CS facing their first major college press and traps. For the most part they were smart with the ball and the press didn't beat us.

The huge difference from last year is the offensive ball movement and sense of team chemistry. Last year everyone looked to Lisch and Tommie to make a play. This year no one on the court is afraid to shoot and they understand their role. Majerus knows these guys get it and each player off the bench contributes. RM's halftime adjustments the last 2 games have won each game - we came out dominant the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half to take control.

Playing away from Chaifetz will be a challenge, but I'll be happy with 1 win vs Iowa St, ND/Northwestern, or a weak Georgia team.

[SluSignGuy]

Solid win today. Kennesaw is a good team - athletic, quick, and good shooters, they will do well in their conference and it will be intersesting how they do against ND. They were better than Nebraska.

WR's first half defense (5 blocks on the game) forced KSU to be perimeter oriented. They knocked down some shots, but for the most part were afraid to come inside. KC's four 3's were nice to see, but credit KM and CS for penetrating and giving him open looks - 6 assists each. KC has a very slow release on his shot, which didn't matter today because all his looks were wide open, but will in the A-10.

Some posts are griping about the 16 turnovers. I disagree. That's not a lot considering they were pressed for 40 minutes against an athletic team who clearly wanted to speed up the pace. When KM was out, we had a backcourt of KC, JJ, and CS facing their first major college press and traps. For the most part they were smart with the ball and the press didn't beat us.

The huge difference from last year is the offensive ball movement and sense of team chemistry. Last year everyone looked to Lisch and Tommie to make a play. This year no one on the court is afraid to shoot and they understand their role. Majerus knows these guys get it and each player off the bench contributes. RM's halftime adjustments the last 2 games have won each game - we came out dominant the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half to take control.

Playing away from Chaifetz will be a challenge, but I'll be happy with 1 win vs Iowa St, ND/Northwestern, or a weak Georgia team.

Welcome to the board!

[thetorch]

I'm probably being too hard on Kyle. Wonderful shooting today.

Cassity has been lauded for his ballhandling and decision making along with his defensive prowess while his lack of shooting touch has been brushed off. Well he made some shots today. He was fantastic shooting the ball. He played poor defense today though, and he didn't take care of the ball and didn't lead the team out of the press. He was a hindrance to the press if anything, he made late decisions, stood around without the ball and held the ball instead of moving it when we had it.

These presses weren't anything new. Repeatedly we had trouble getting out of our end. 5 second calls, 10 second calls, forced Timeouts, TOs, these shouldn't happen repeatedly against Kennesaw St. I hope that Majerus was making adjustments during timeouts if that is so then KC, CS, KM, JJ, FJ weren't listening. If he wasn't making adjustments then shame on the coaching staff. It should take one timeout to solve that press, we didn't solve it for 30 minutes. It was extremely frustrating.

Without a lights out shooting game we lose at home to an inferior squad. A better team running a press will absolutely bury this team, that just shouldn't be the case when you have several players in your lineup with the ballhandling skills to be point guards.

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

[GoBills]

For whatever flaws that critics want to point out in Kyle's game, and it is certainly fair to do so, there is no denying that has game has improved noticeably over last season. He's playing with a lot more confidence and looking to score more. I don't think we can expect he will ever be a star player or the focal point of an offense, but he is proving to be a very valuable player. For those who are not impressed with his game, don't worry. I think as Salecich and Femi get more comfortable and McCall is added to the roster next year, I suspect Kyle will gradually play fewer minutes, BUT, Kyle will remain a very valuable and productive role player throught his Billiken career.

[davidnark]

For whatever flaws that critics want to point out in Kyle's game, and it is certainly fair to do so, there is no denying that has game has improved noticeably over last season. He's playing with a lot more confidence and looking to score more. I don't think we can expect he will ever be a star player or the focal point of an offense, but he is proving to be a very valuable player. For those who are not impressed with his game, don't worry. I think as Salecich and Femi get more comfortable and McCall is added to the roster next year, I suspect Kyle will gradually play fewer minutes, BUT, Kyle will remain a very valuable and productive role player throught his Billiken career.

I think everyone underestimates Cassity's abilities because he is a skinny white kid who looks like he just got his driver's license. The reality is that Kyle is an excellent athlete with a great first move and nice leaping ability, particularly for a big guard. If I were to think of modern-era Billiken with a physical skill set most similar to Kyle, it would probably be Tommie Liddell. Tommie's athletic upside was higher, but Kyle has a much better understanding of the game.

[NH]

I think everyone underestimates Cassity's abilities because he is a skinny white kid who looks like he just got his driver's license. The reality is that Kyle is an excellent athlete with a great first move and nice leaping ability, particularly for a big guard. If I were to think of modern-era Billiken with a physical skill set most similar to Kyle, it would probably be Tommie Liddell. Tommie's athletic upside was higher, but Kyle has a much better understanding of the game.

I agree on some of this and disagree on others. Kyle is underrated because he is white and skinny, I probably underrate him. I can see the Tommie comparison, but the part I would compare is their understanding of the game. Tommie had a very high bball IQ in my opinion and I think Kyle does too. Kyle is obviously a better shooter, but he is not as athletic and will never be able to drive as well.

[NH]

Also, I am super pumped about this team. Rick (once he adds Ellis) has all the pieces in place to make us the next Xavier. I have liked something about all of the freshman so far and the sophomores have all made good improvements.

[eastsidejoe]

I'm probably being too hard on Kyle. Wonderful shooting today.

Cassity has been lauded for his ballhandling and decision making along with his defensive prowess while his lack of shooting touch has been brushed off. Well he made some shots today. He was fantastic shooting the ball. He played poor defense today though, and he didn't take care of the ball and didn't lead the team out of the press. He was a hindrance to the press if anything, he made late decisions, stood around without the ball and held the ball instead of moving it when we had it.

These presses weren't anything new. Repeatedly we had trouble getting out of our end. 5 second calls, 10 second calls, forced Timeouts, TOs, these shouldn't happen repeatedly against Kennesaw St. I hope that Majerus was making adjustments during timeouts if that is so then KC, CS, KM, JJ, FJ weren't listening. If he wasn't making adjustments then shame on the coaching staff. It should take one timeout to solve that press, we didn't solve it for 30 minutes. It was extremely frustrating.

Without a lights out shooting game we lose at home to an inferior squad. A better team running a press will absolutely bury this team, that just shouldn't be the case when you have several players in your lineup with the ballhandling skills to be point guards.

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

IMO you are right and you are dead wrong. On the press, the object is to get the ball to the middle of the floor, i agree with you. However if KC is the trigger he has no business running up the middle near half court. He is the safety in the press breaker. the only way Kyle moves up the floor is if someone fills his position at the safety. the safety is back for the pass or as the defender in case of a steal. i think you are wrong. He does make mistakes but no more than anyone else and fewer than most.

[Archy McNally]

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

It is common to break the press with sending your big men to middle, getting him the ball and letting your wing guards break off that to fill the lanes. It is a good way to get easy pts off the press. We used to do it all the time in HS a long time ago and it is still a popular way to kill a press, especially if the D is denying the inbounds pass.

[BIG BILL FAN]

I'm probably being too hard on Kyle. Wonderful shooting today.

Cassity has been lauded for his ballhandling and decision making along with his defensive prowess while his lack of shooting touch has been brushed off. Well he made some shots today. He was fantastic shooting the ball. He played poor defense today though, and he didn't take care of the ball and didn't lead the team out of the press. He was a hindrance to the press if anything, he made late decisions, stood around without the ball and held the ball instead of moving it when we had it.

These presses weren't anything new. Repeatedly we had trouble getting out of our end. 5 second calls, 10 second calls, forced Timeouts, TOs, these shouldn't happen repeatedly against Kennesaw St. I hope that Majerus was making adjustments during timeouts if that is so then KC, CS, KM, JJ, FJ weren't listening. If he wasn't making adjustments then shame on the coaching staff. It should take one timeout to solve that press, we didn't solve it for 30 minutes. It was extremely frustrating.

Without a lights out shooting game we lose at home to an inferior squad. A better team running a press will absolutely bury this team, that just shouldn't be the case when you have several players in your lineup with the ballhandling skills to be point guards.

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

You say you are being too hard on him then proceed to rip him again. Again, he had 3 turnovers, not 10. As for this wide open man in the middle, again, I don't know what you were looking at. Kennesaw state did a great job setting up their trap.

[billiken_roy]

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

first i agree with your plan to break the press. the man taking it out of bounds bust up the middle and the initial receiver throws it back to him. grade school stuff.

that said, i did not see rickma "coaching" that method. it appears to me he would rather have the two guards work it back and forth and only break willie or conklin to the middle when needed. i believe the billikens pretty much did what rickma wanted against the press.

personally, i give kennesaw state credit for their athleticism. they did a great job of trying to freeze out mitchell and have the rest of the team beat them.

as to the five second calls, in reality other than calling a timeout, i would rather the inbounding player take that five second call instead of throwing the pass away. sure it is a turnover but at least we get the opportunity to set up a defense instead of an easy layup.

cassity was the best player on the floor yesterday. to try to minimalize that or down grade it one would think everyone would be thrilled he played his normal strong floor game AND scored.

[slufanskip]

I'm probably being too hard on Kyle. Wonderful shooting today.

Cassity has been lauded for his ballhandling and decision making along with his defensive prowess while his lack of shooting touch has been brushed off. Well he made some shots today. He was fantastic shooting the ball. He played poor defense today though, and he didn't take care of the ball and didn't lead the team out of the press. He was a hindrance to the press if anything, he made late decisions, stood around without the ball and held the ball instead of moving it when we had it.

These presses weren't anything new. Repeatedly we had trouble getting out of our end. 5 second calls, 10 second calls, forced Timeouts, TOs, these shouldn't happen repeatedly against Kennesaw St. I hope that Majerus was making adjustments during timeouts if that is so then KC, CS, KM, JJ, FJ weren't listening. If he wasn't making adjustments then shame on the coaching staff. It should take one timeout to solve that press, we didn't solve it for 30 minutes. It was extremely frustrating.

Without a lights out shooting game we lose at home to an inferior squad. A better team running a press will absolutely bury this team, that just shouldn't be the case when you have several players in your lineup with the ballhandling skills to be point guards.

Here is just one thing Kyle was supposed to do. The way to beat this trap even against 4 defenders is to get the ball in the middle. Kyle inbounds it to one of 2 players on the wing, Kyle then should run up the middle near half court, evading the trap and take the ball over. He repeatedly chose to stand at the baseline and take passes one foot out of bounds. Sophomore or not this is basketball 101. Conklin and Reed saw that no one was getting to that spot and went to the middle and were forced to take the ball over the timeline several times. Our center and PF should not be doing that and against a good team that will lead to easy baskets for the other team. Kyle repeatedly missed his spot there for whatever reason. It really was infuriating to watch the same mistakes made over and over again and zero corrections being made.

I didn't see the game, but by reading your post, it sounds as if you're complaining that KC didn't fill the middle and Conklin and Reed did. Having your big fill the middle is how it should be beaten. Maybe I'n not getting a clear understanding of what was going on. Was it a m2m straight up press? Was it a zone trap? Did they do the same thing or change it up? We're they giving us certain area's and then trapping when we took the bait?

I agree with the poster that said 16 t/o's against a 40 minute full court press isn't horrible. How many of the t/o's were for failing to break the press? 5, 6? We scored 76, so I would have to assume we beat the press rather consistently and got some easy looks due to it also.

[slufanskip]

first i agree with your plan to break the press. the man taking it out of bounds bust up the middle and the initial receiver throws it back to him. grade school stuff.

that said, i did not see rickma "coaching" that method. it appears to me he would rather have the two guards work it back and forth and only break willie or conklin to the middle when needed. i believe the billikens pretty much did what rickma wanted against the press.

personally, i give kennesaw state credit for their athleticism. they did a great job of trying to freeze out mitchell and have the rest of the team beat them.

as to the five second calls, in reality other than calling a timeout, i would rather the inbounding player take that five second call instead of throwing the pass away. sure it is a turnover but at least we get the opportunity to set up a defense instead of an easy layup.

cassity was the best player on the floor yesterday. to try to minimalize that or down grade it one would think everyone would be thrilled he played his normal strong floor game AND scored.

No, it's not normal, except maybe in grade school to have the inbounder bust up the middle and the receiver throw it back to him. Hell, that doesn't work with 6-8th grade girls. How hard is that to take away?

Did they throw the same press all day or did they change it up? Was it a straight up m2m or did they trap?

Some people on here are acting like a D1 full court press can be broken with grade school techniques. Sorry, it's just not that easy. If it was, nobody would do it, why would they, they'd never get a steal and they'd give up many easy buckets on the other end.

Does anyone really think you can just call a time out, go over how to beat a press and Voila, it's done? They aren't robots your playing against. Again, if that was the answer, why would any team ever press?

[willie]

No, it's not normal, except maybe in grade school to have the inbounder bust up the middle and the receiver throw it back to him. Hell, that doesn't work with 6-8th grade girls. How hard is that to take away?

Did they throw the same press all day or did they change it up? Was it a straight up m2m or did they trap?

Some people on here are acting like a D1 full court press can be broken with grade school techniques. Sorry, it's just not that easy. If it was, nobody would do it, why would they, they'd never get a steal and they'd give up many easy buckets on the other end.

Does anyone really think you can just call a time out, go over how to beat a press and Voila, it's done? They aren't robots your playing against. Again, if that was the answer, why would any team ever press?

Rick said in the press interview that they had not worked on the press.Seemed surprised that KSU employed one. He said they just hadn't had enough practice time to work on defeating it. I thought the problem was simple,throw over the top and attack the rim. Willie or Conklin both appeared open on the wings but we rarely threw it to them. KSU's trap was in the middle of the floor not on the wings. I'm a firm believer that you go over the top and create a fast break. If you are suceed they will call off the press. Make them pay.

[Cowboy]

Rick said in the press interview that they had not worked on the press.Seemed surprised that KSU employed one. He said they just hadn't had enough practice time to work on defeating it. I thought the problem was simple,throw over the top and attack the rim. Willie or Conklin both appeared open on the wings but we rarely threw it to them. KSU's trap was in the middle of the floor not on the wings. I'm a firm believer that you go over the top and create a fast break. If you are suceed they will call off the press. Make them pay.

-well, i would look forward to seeing more teams press us until we prove we aren't rattled by it

-if we haven't prepared for it and only had 16 to's for the game the kids did great

-i will say again i do like a team that plays some "junk" defenses, but if we are going to continue to play defense the way we have i am fine with that as well

[Clock_Tower]

KC threw away multiple balls. KC was beaten on defense badly in the first half several times. KC did not move to get open on inbounds plays. KC was solely responsible for not getting the ball out of bounds twice which was called and solely responsible for a 10 second call as well where he just held the ball. He was absolutely clueless against the press, Willie Reed had more know how than he did.

That is the game I watched. He made some 3s and led the team in points but he was sorely lacking in other areas. People have jumped on his bandwagon lately but I still believe he is being outperformed by other players on the team and he does not deserve the playing time he has been getting.

Not trying to belittle him, but the recent KC lovefest needs to stop. He makes a lot of mistakes. Majerus loves him but lets not get carried away because he made 4 3s.

Again. I am confused by good and regular posters and Billiken fans. By default, I guess I am turning into the organizer of KC's fan club.

Yes, Majerus loves KC but, as we know, it has not been because of his shooting ability PRIOR to yesterday's game. Instead, it has been b/c of all the other things he does. Yesterday's shooting performance, instead of putting to rest alot of the complaints, instead has changed the complaints.

Just to be clear, I take absolutely no credit for KC. I knew nothing about him prior to his commitment to the Bills. I never watched him play in highschool and I have only seen him play in games. I claim no greater ability to his performance as a basketball player than other posters. Unfortunately, I cannot watch him in practice (where you can truly see what a player is like) like the old days but that is another topic... Instead, I am, and have been, a big fan of KC b/c RM is a big fan of KC. If KC had such flaws in his game, RM would have found a new home him and/or would not be playing him. My trust and confidence in KC is NOT based only upon what I see in him during the games but also, and more importantly, what RM sees in him during the games. RM is a HOF coach. I am not. Believe all the other posters on this Board are not either. Therefore, making light and fun of RM's opinion (just one man's opinion) is like making fun of the Pope's opinion (just one man's opinion). Oh my... did I just compare RM and the Pope?!? I guess so but hope people get my point w/o getting too excited.

[cheeseman]

I didn't see the game, but by reading your post, it sounds as if you're complaining that KC didn't fill the middle and Conklin and Reed did. Having your big fill the middle is how it should be beaten. Maybe I'n not getting a clear understanding of what was going on. Was it a m2m straight up press? Was it a zone trap? Did they do the same thing or change it up? We're they giving us certain area's and then trapping when we took the bait?

I agree with the poster that said 16 t/o's against a 40 minute full court press isn't horrible. How many of the t/o's were for failing to break the press? 5, 6? We scored 76, so I would have to assume we beat the press rather consistently and got some easy looks due to it also.

Yes

[billiken_roy]

No, it's not normal, except maybe in grade school to have the inbounder bust up the middle and the receiver throw it back to him. Hell, that doesn't work with 6-8th grade girls. How hard is that to take away?

Did they throw the same press all day or did they change it up? Was it a straight up m2m or did they trap?

Some people on here are acting like a D1 full court press can be broken with grade school techniques. Sorry, it's just not that easy. If it was, nobody would do it, why would they, they'd never get a steal and they'd give up many easy buckets on the other end.

Does anyone really think you can just call a time out, go over how to beat a press and Voila, it's done? They aren't robots your playing against. Again, if that was the answer, why would any team ever press?

i disagree skip. it should be the first try at breaking the press until the defense adjusts. second bring the big man up in the middle to receive the help pass. yes it is grade school. but most cases the most basic is still the best thing to do. think about the basicness (is that a word?) of the pick and roll, or the give and go, yet it is amazing how often it still works and when it does how beautiful it is to see.

fyi, kennesaw played a 1-2-2 zone trap where the chaser went back and forth and the weak side wing would cover the middle while the strong side wing would trap with the chaser. since we did not bring anyone up the middle or break the "bigs" up until late, the weak side wing stayed wide and cut off the cross court reversal of the ball thus the difficulty of succeeding. i think slu thought that mitchell would just dribble through any pressure however i also think our coaching staff underestimated the speed of the kennesaw guards.

as you said, yes we beat the press enough to win, however i do think the press was the difference between us blowing kennesaw state out and the game ending up a 10 point win.

[billiken_roy]

btw, the few instances that willie/conklin did get involved i thought they did a splendid job of turning and pushing the ball towards the basket. in fact we saw ball skills from willie i frankly did not know he had. i dont think one of those instances resulted in a turnover. so that was actually a pleasant uncovering i bet for the billiken coaching staff.

[Quality Is Job 1]

btw, the few instances that willie/conklin did get involved i thought they did a splendid job of turning and pushing the ball towards the basket. in fact we saw ball skills from willie i frankly did not know he had. i dont think one of those instances resulted in a turnover. so that was actually a pleasant uncovering i bet for the billiken coaching staff.

Re: Willie Reed's ballhandling, I don't think that was a revelation. On the radio broadcast, Bob Ramsey said that Reed was 6-1 as a freshman in high school and had guard skills and has never lost them.

I know this may offend some of you, but I think Willie Reed compares well to Doug Smith, and I hope he develops into that kind of dominating player.

[brianstl]

Does anyone know what was the deal with one of the concesion stands being worked by kids wearing Mizzou shirts?

[Pistol]

Does anyone know what was the deal with one of the concesion stands being worked by kids wearing Mizzou shirts?

Probably some fundraiser. Makes sense to do it at our place, as we've had better attendance per game (7088) than Mizzou (6391).

[moytoy12]

Does anyone know what was the deal with one of the concesion stands being worked by kids wearing Mizzou shirts?

Guess those Mizzou degrees don't land you a dream job after all.

[cheeseman]

Does anyone know what was the deal with one of the concesion stands being worked by kids wearing Mizzou shirts?

The concession stands are being offered to groups to raise money just as the Cards do. The game before it was Parkway West Band or Orchestra I think. My guess is the people working wore their college stuff because they were at a college game not even thinking how stupid it looked. I really think that SLU should require them if they are working to only wear SLU or anything else but another college stuff - simple to do and I doubt the organization would really care.