Trouble Brewing or Done Been Brewed?

[moytoy12]

I wanted to pull out something for everyone to see. Sounds like trouble is either brewing or done been brewed. From TDELL:

"thetorch where did you play college ball, probably no where. This is a new coach with a new system, everybody's saying how good of a coach Majerus is, I dont see it anybody can run around and set screens you dont have to have talent to do that. Majuerus doesn't want any fancy stuff just plain basketball. Tommie played well his first two years now all of a sudden he's not, its not Tommie it's the coach. I'd rather have Sodie."

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?s...mp;#entry139482

From another thread:

"Tommie's doing what our so-called coach wants, its not Tommie its the coach.."

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?s...mp;#entry139481

[NashvilleBilliken]

This really isn't anything new. We all know coach has been on Tommie and he expects certain things. Given that Tommie has far more skills that anybody on the team, our coach has higher expectations for him than anybody else. But the fact is, Majerus knows how to win. He knows how to put kids in the pros, and he knows how to run a program like SLU. I think Tommie's a great kid (from what I have witnessed over the past 2.5 years) and a great basketball talent. But Majerus' rep trumps that. With all due to respect to Mr. Liddell, Coach Majerus is one of the most brilliant minds in basketball....and that comes from the mouth of ther other most brilliant minds in basketball. He has NEVER had a losing season and has won more than 3/4 of his games.

I hope Tommie can adjust. But, Tommie needs to do what he needs to do and if he can't deal with our coach...while extremely unfortunate...casualties of a coaching change are bound to happen.

[moytoy12]

This really isn't anything new. We all know coach has been on Tommie and he expects certain things. Given that Tommie has far more skills that anybody on the team, our coach has higher expectations for him than anybody else. But the fact is, Majerus knows how to win. He knows how to put kids in the pros, and he knows how to run a program like SLU. I think Tommie's a great kid (from what I have witnessed over the past 2.5 years) and a great basketball talent. But Majerus' rep trumps that. With all due to respect to Mr. Liddell, Coach Majerus is one of the most brilliant minds in basketball....and that comes from the mouth of ther other most brilliant minds in basketball. He has NEVER had a losing season and has won more than 3/4 of his games.

I hope Tommie can adjust. But, Tommie needs to do what he needs to do and if he can't deal with our coach...while extremely unfortunate...casualties of a coaching change are bound to happen.

Mr. Liddell's thoughts were new to me.

[brianstl]

Mr. Liddell's thoughts were new to me.

This is why I think sometimes it is probably just better that players and their families are better off not posting on here. This is the kind of thing that could blow up and become something much bigger than ever was probably intended.

[Westy03]

This is why I think sometimes it is probably just better that players and their families are better off not posting on here. This is the kind of thing that could blow up and become something much bigger than ever was probably intended.

Exactly. We know media memebers read this board and some of them will take it and run with it.

[provos528]

I think Tommie is smart enough that he knows has to learn from RM's style of coaching to be a more successful player and individual in the future, to have more tricks in your bags would greatly be a big advantage..

Short term loss for a long term gain..

[worthington]

Only 4 games have been played under his realm, there's another 60 or so for Tommie to play.

At this point, I have confidence Majerus and Tommie will "sync" and he will prosper b/c of Majerus's challenges...they're both too talented in their respective positions for it not to blossom. The outcome will be better defensive play (which he'll need in the NBA) and an overall increased self-efficacy in certain skills he may be unaware of to this point. From the very beginning, Majerus has identified that which Tommie can improve and has challenged him to raise his awareness level on these small, yet significant deficiencies. If Majerus doesn't do this in this moment of Tommie's career, who will? I believe Majerus "envisions" Tommie to have remarkable ability. I don't believe Tommie is in some sort of "doghouse" or is being "punished." I don't believe Majerus is "mad" or "upset." In my humble opinion, I think there is a strong possibility that Majerus thinks "highly" of Tommie and knows what it takes for Tommie to make it to the NBA.

More importantly, I don't believe Majerus would thwart Tommie's chances of improving his NBA stock by allowing their relationship develop to the point where Tommie's self-confidence would effect his overall play for much longer. If, however, Tommie's offensive play does not return by ________ (fill in the blank), I would expect Majerus to hold himself to the same high expectations he has for Tommie. If Majerus finds Tommie does not respond to the (for lack of a better term) "tough love" approach, then Majerus must amend his approach. If that happens, it will be b/c Majerus has put in his time to really understand and create a trusting relationship w/ Tommie.

Either way, in the future, Tommie will have NBA caliber play b/c Majerus knows what he is currenlty doing or will know what to do if Tommie does not respond to them. Call me optimistic....I just think they're both way too talented in what they do.

[Majerus Magic]

I wanted to pull out something for everyone to see. Sounds like trouble is either brewing or done been brewed. From TDELL:

"thetorch where did you play college ball, probably no where. This is a new coach with a new system, everybody's saying how good of a coach Majerus is, I dont see it anybody can run around and set screens you dont have to have talent to do that. Majuerus doesn't want any fancy stuff just plain basketball. Tommie played well his first two years now all of a sudden he's not, its not Tommie it's the coach. I'd rather have Sodie."

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?s...mp;#entry139482

From another thread:

"Tommie's doing what our so-called coach wants, its not Tommie its the coach.."

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?s...mp;#entry139481

It's RM's way or the highway. RM is the coach and TL is the player. I think who is gonna lose out on this one is pretty clear. If Tommie or anyone else for that matter can't play within RM's standards and system, tough s***. He'll pack your bags for you..

[kmbilliken]

It's RM's way or the highway. RM is the coach and TL is the player. I think who is gonna lose out on this one is pretty clear. If Tommie or anyone else for that matter can't play within RM's standards and system, tough s***. He'll pack your bags for you..

This just has to play out. TL no doubt feels he's being under utilized. Once he settles into the system he'll have a couple of breakout games and all will be well.

[worthington]

If it gets to the point that Tommie's play had regressed after he's graduated, Majerus will have to be responsible for the role he played in his "my way or the highway" type of attitude then. Again, I believe he's wise enough and to talented a coach to allow that to happen. I'm sure his approaches are more nuanced than that.

[SLUDrew]

Coach has taken players with far less ability than Tommie to the pros. From what I hear about Tommie he is the kind of kid that can deal with this tough love from Majerus and realize that his best bet at getting the the NBA is to do what coach says. No one is saying Majerus is infallible but his track record speaks for itself in this matter.

For waht its worth, Bernie was saying that Mo Scott who, from my understanding, is kind of a mentor to Tommie has said that Tommie knows what Coach is doing is in his (Tommie's) best interest.

I would be shocked if Tommie transferred

[Tonka]

Coach has taken players with far less ability than Tommie to the pros. From what I hear about Tommie he is the kind of kid that can deal with this tough love from Majerus and realize that his best bet at getting the the NBA is to do what coach says. No one is saying Majerus is infallible but his track record speaks for itself in this matter.

For waht its worth, Bernie was saying that Mo Scott who, from my understanding, is kind of a mentor to Tommie has said that Tommie knows what Coach is doing is in his (Tommie's) best interest.

I would be shocked if Tommie transferred

I sit behind the bench so I get to see the facial expressions of players after they come out of the game. I particularly pay close attention to their body language and how they deal with RM or any of the coaches when they provide them feedback, coach them, or get on them. TL has been absolutely attentive to RM and his body language has been very receptive to coaching and direction from all the coaches.

We have seen both KL and TL not look like themselves at times so far in this very early season. They are playing in a whole new system and still learning it. TL is a good kid and I fully expect him to be frustrated along with the other players at having to adjust their game to RM's style. Any passionate player may get frustrated because they care. We always hear Coach say how much he likes LM. I think he likes him so much because he plays above his ability. TL is a very good player and starting to get some national attention. Tommie will have to play above his ability to take things to the next level and I fully expect that he will. I have heard from an inside source that RM thinks Tommie's skills are unbelievable and we know RM wants nothing more than to bring them all out. We have seen some unbelievable play from TL since he has been here and the scary thing is that we haven't seen the best of Tommie yet and I would think Coach knows that.

[JMM28]

" Tommie played well his first two years now all of a sudden he's not, its not Tommie it's the coach. I'd rather have Sodie."

This is by far the worst quote I have ever seen on this board.

I guess i'd rather have Brad too, if I wanted to make the NIT all-1st/2nd-round team every 3rd year, and then spend a few years toiling away in a 3rd rate euroleague.

But I think I'd rather have Majerus for just about every other possible reason. This kind of statement really doesn't even deserve attention because it is so ridiculous. Sigh. So frustrating.

[BIG BILL FAN]

" Tommie played well his first two years now all of a sudden he's not, its not Tommie it's the coach. I'd rather have Sodie."

This is by far the worst quote I have ever seen on this board.

I guess i'd rather have Brad too, if I wanted to make the NIT all-1st/2nd-round team every 3rd year, and then spend a few years toiling away in a 3rd rate euroleague.

But I think I'd rather have Majerus for just about every other possible reason. This kind of statement really doesn't even deserve attention because it is so ridiculous. Sigh. So frustrating.

Let's cut TDELL a little slack. I'm sure it's not always easy being a parent of a high profile player. Tommie's pressing a little right now because he is trying so hard to please his new coach. Tommie has too much talent too stay down for very long.

[GW]

" Tommie played well his first two years now all of a sudden he's not, its not Tommie it's the coach. I'd rather have Sodie."

This is by far the worst quote I have ever seen on this board.

I guess i'd rather have Brad too, if I wanted to make the NIT all-1st/2nd-round team every 3rd year, and then spend a few years toiling away in a 3rd rate euroleague.

But I think I'd rather have Majerus for just about every other possible reason. This kind of statement really doesn't even deserve attention because it is so ridiculous. Sigh. So frustrating.

You have to understand the source. Mr. Liddell is going to be a Tommie fan first and a SLU fan second. Let's suppose there were 2 choices available to all of us. Choice 1- Soderberg stays, Tommie scores 30 PPG and is a first round NBA pick next spring, but the team finishes .500. Choice 2- Majerus arrives, Tommie rides the bench, SLU wins the national championship. I am using extreme unrealistic examples to make a point. 99.9% of us would choose "choice 2", but honestly, I couldn't blaim Mr. Liddell if he were to choose "choice 1". Perhaps over the long term, Tommie will become a better player under Majerus, but I have to agree that Tommie would probably be performing better under Soderberg, at least over the short term.

[Billiken Rich]

You have to understand the source. Mr. Liddell is going to be a Tommie fan first and a SLU fan second. Let's suppose there were 2 choices available to all of us. Choice 1- Soderberg stays, Tommie scores 30 PPG and is a first round NBA pick next spring, but the team finishes .500. Choice 2- Majerus arrives, Tommie rides the bench, SLU wins the national championship. I am using extreme unrealistic examples to make a point. 99.9% of us would choose "choice 2", but honestly, I couldn't blaim Mr. Liddell if he were to choose "choice 1". Perhaps over the long term, Tommie will become a better player under Majerus, but I have to agree that Tommie would probably be performing better under Soderberg, at least over the short term.

A agree a bit with GW though Tommie will get untold more exposure with Majerus rather than Brad at the helm. How quickly we all forget though the "brewing trouble" caused by the very same St. Brad when he grabbed Tommie by the shirt and manhandled him a bit. The world was going to end then too.......

Either Tommie will find his way under the new system or he won't. I hope he does because he's the best we've got and we need him. Whining about Majerus and pining for Brad is counterproductive and pointless........

[Clock_Tower]

From a pure outsider's position, it appears that while TL is our most talented player, certain fundamentals/defense having been lacking due, in large part, to his poor high school coaching. Even TL acknowledged that RM is the first coach to ever demand change to his game. While Brad tried to improve his game and frequently got frustrated, Brad lacked RM's stature and recruiting ability to compel change. Hopefully, TL will hang in there for not only SLU's benefit but also his own benefit.

[thetorch]

Wow.

I remember a story Coach Brad told. When Tommie was being courted by UNLV to drop his verbal to SLU his mother was the last one to find out. Tommie's mother told Tommie that he promised to play for Coach Brad, he wouldn't be going anywhere but SLU. All talk of him leaving ended after that.

[slu72]

Whatever RM's methods are they have obviously produced results both for teams and players. It's time for all to take a step back and keep our eye on the targets: NCAA bid for SLU, NBA career for TL. This is like a merger. A lot of people aren't happy at first, but eventually the changes take hold and you move forward. Hang in there TL, you'll be better for it.

[JaleJarr]

Whatever RM's methods are they have obviously produced results both for teams and players. It's time for all to take a step back and keep our eye on the targets: NCAA bid for SLU, NBA career for TL. This is like a merger. A lot of people aren't happy at first, but eventually the changes take hold and you move forward. Hang in there TL, you'll be better for it.

These are my sentiments exactly. Rick Majerus did not recruit Tommie. Coach probably would not have recruited Tommie coming out of HS due to his coaching and Tommie's style of play. Tommie did not commit to SLU to play for Majerus. This is an arranged marriage. That being said Tommie has to make the most of this situation. He is definitely not in the catbird seat.

Tommie is frustrated but not defeated. Tommie has always been a player who controlled the ball and created for others. Now coach is trying to get Tommie to play off the ball and allows other to create for him. A pretty big role reversal I'd say. This transformation will not happen over night. I'm positive that Tommie will adjust and be better for this experience. Hopefully come conference time no one will remember this thread.

[Taj79]

I think all the above demonstrates another point I made in the prediction thread. New coach, new system, essentially new players. It is going to take some large adjustments on both sides. Hopefully, given Majerus' track record, the kids know he has had sucess before and can do their careers wonders, much more, I believe than Sodeberg could. The problem is also the NBA and its drafting system. Two total rounds and only first rounders get guaranteed money and the higher you go, the more you get. An average of 30 ppg but a losing record will look better for the player as opposed to 12 ppg. That is being short sighted but it is closer to truth than not.

Throw Tommie out of the equation as well as his dad because I am 100% certain they are in it for self-realized motivations. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. It is normal, typical, usual ---you name it. On one hand, think Troy and Kevin Slaten. We all know how that turned out. We all know what an arse the dad was/is. I AM NOT COMPARING TDELL TO THE ARSE. Anyone getting wrapped around that axle is not reading this correctly. All I'm saying is that if this was me or you, who would you rush to defend? Our kid, naturally. I said in another thread that Tommie is saying all the right things right now and that speaks volumes for the kid's character. He seems to know what Majerus wants as I'm sure Mitchell does too but its a matter of getting there.

Over the years, I have met Chris Heinrich's mother, the Johnson's, the Drejaj family, the Meyers and countless other proud parents of SLU players. I offer that not a single one of them wasn't pulling for their kid or the team. The Johnsons were amazing when you consider the way Brad used their kid and yanked him left and right. That was dedication. I have not met the Liddell's but am certain that too is their case. I think if Tommie gets it this year, in practice, then with some of the additions next year, the monster year and draft day would be on the brink.

But how many kids today (AGAIN NOT THE LIDDELLS BUT IN GENERAL) blow off the coach because they know better, or have an entourage that knows better, or perhaps have been coddled their whoel careers because god-given talent meant they did not have to work as hard? I venture to say a lot and can't help but think of all those high school NBAers we have out there today. Many have lamented onhere how the high school coach is rather immaterial today and that the real insight inot a kid is his AAU coach.

This is all easy to say and write but unless you've been in it, you can't understand. I played high school sports and a little at the college level. Did I think I knew more than some of my coaches while doing that? Hell yes. Was I right? Don't really know but I kind of seem to doubt it. I think the 'trouble" as stated inthe topic line is real, and it could be real for a whole bunch of current, holdover players. Not only Tommie, but we've seen the same questions regarding Husak, Knollmeyer, and even Lisch. Also, Sodeberg NEVER really spoke to the press where as Majerus seems to relish it. That is also a different method of operation.

In today's society, art imitates life and more often than not, the sticktoiteness of the past has been replaced by "I'm out of here." Its really prevalent in the pros and don't our youth imitate those role models as well? Tejada wants out of Baltimore. Arod wants out of New York. Kobe wants out of LA. Kobe wants' Shaq out of LA. Iverson don't practice and wants out of Philly. Briere leaves the "team" in Buffalo for the "cash" in Philly. Eli won't sign with San Diego if they draft him. Year ago Elway was there. Frankly, Bird only ended up in Boston because of loop hole found by Auerbach and exploited, later to have the nBA shut that door as well.

Herre' shoping the demonstrated character by Tommie wins out. I wouldn't be surprised how this thing goes. We shall see.

[jjray]

These are my sentiments exactly. Rick Majerus did not recruit Tommie. Coach probably would not have recruited Tommie coming out of HS due to his coaching and Tommie's style of play. Tommie did not commit to SLU to play for Majerus. This is an arranged marriage. That being said Tommie has to make the most of this situation. He is definitely not in the catbird seat.

Tommie is frustrated but not defeated. Tommie has always been a player who controlled the ball and created for others. Now coach is trying to get Tommie to play off the ball and allows other to create for him. A pretty big role reversal I'd say. This transformation will not happen over night. I'm positive that Tommie will adjust and be better for this experience. Hopefully come conference time no one will remember this thread.

Thanks for the insight to the situation JaleJarr. Definitely hope with you that the shotgun marriage works out as it will be the best for both parties.

[slufanskip]

These are my sentiments exactly. Rick Majerus did not recruit Tommie. Coach probably would not have recruited Tommie coming out of HS due to his coaching and Tommie's style of play. Tommie did not commit to SLU to play for Majerus. This is an arranged marriage. That being said Tommie has to make the most of this situation. He is definitely not in the catbird seat.

Tommie is frustrated but not defeated. Tommie has always been a player who controlled the ball and created for others. Now coach is trying to get Tommie to play off the ball and allows other to create for him. A pretty big role reversal I'd say. This transformation will not happen over night. I'm positive that Tommie will adjust and be better for this experience. Hopefully come conference time no one will remember this thread.

I would be shocked if RM wouldn't have recruited TL. The difference would be that he would be 2 years into learning RM's way. He wouldn't have been a star being benched for not getting it as he was learning, he would have been a freshman learning and earning his way into the starting lineup.

Personally I'm not sure TL is a better player playing off the ball. Maybe we become a better team that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's best for Tommie. Imo what Tommie needed to do was learn to keep his intensity higher for the entire game, never letting his focus drift, offensively and deffensively. I've always thought he had the vision to be a pg, just not the intensity or the (I hate to use this word, but it fits) the leadership qualities to play it. I was hopeing RM could pull those qualities out of him, not change him to a player who plays off the ball.

With that said ... RM is the coach with the record to back up what he's doing, so I'll defer my opinion until he has had time to get his system in place and him and Tommie have found a common ground with Tommie playing to his potential, it will come.

[billiken_roy]

I would be shocked if RM wouldn't have recruited TL. The difference would be that he would be 2 years into learning RM's way. He wouldn't have been a star being benched for not getting it as he was learning, he would have been a freshman learning and earning his way into the starting lineup.

Personally I'm not sure TL is a better player playing off the ball. Maybe we become a better team that way, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's best for Tommie. Imo what Tommie needed to do was learn to keep his intensity higher for the entire game, never letting his focus drift, offensively and deffensively. I've always thought he had the vision to be a pg, just not the intensity or the (I hate to use this word, but it fits) the leadership qualities to play it. I was hopeing RM could pull those qualities out of him, not change him to a player who plays off the ball.

With that said ... RM is the coach with the record to back up what he's doing, so I'll defer my opinion until he has had time to get his system in place and him and Tommie have found a common ground with Tommie playing to his potential, it will come.

first i want to clarify that i love tommie. my second favorite player on the team. imo he has the most pro potential of any player at slu since hughes. and i think he has a chance to make it big.

second i want to say i totally understand tdell frustrations and it upsets me that others dont. my gosh, have you never had a son or daughter that played a sport? as someone pointed out, as much of a billiken fan as any parent might be, they are bound to be a bigger fan of their own flesh and blood than the billikens and if loving and wanting their child to succeed is a crime, well then call a lot of us guilty. i know that if my daughter ends up pitching at a competing school in few years, you can bet if they face the billikens, i wont be wearing blue that day.

skip, in your post you seem certain that majerus would have also recruited tommie. i dont know. i think we are seeing a pattern to his coaching actions and the players he is recruiting and some of the things being said in interviews and post game Q&A to see that tommie might not be the type of player he would recruit. look at this quote in timmermann's most recent blog:

"Majerus on Anthony Mitchell, who didn’t play against Detroit: Anthony’s keeping his head up. He’s trying hard. He had a very good shootaround (on Wednesday). I told him that after the game. He’s got to make a commitment to defense and to his credit, he’s trying to do it, but he doesn’t know how. I guy who tries I can lead in that direction. … I don’t know what this year’s going to be.”

what i got out of that (and of course i might be misreading between the lines) is that anthony mitchell wasnt coached on defensive fundamentals the way coach majerus would have liked to see while anthony was in high school (and folks i can assure you that eastsides coaches might be the worst in the area. i see it all the time on both the girls and boys games i have seen). well tommie came from that same high school and all we have heard about is tommie isnt playing majerus defense. you can bet when majerus recruits he is looking for the kids that are fundamentally sound from his perspective.

anyway, i think tommie liddell III is a high quality character kid. and because of that he is going to correct his problems and be a huge success over the next two year and in the long run will owe majerus big time because showing he is a good student of the game and willing to adjust is the kind of thing a coach like say don nelson looks for when trying to decide between taking say tommie or some other player that might be more of a malcontent but also athletically talented.

we are seeing majerus set the rules and establish boundaries. players have to buy in or they are out. last game lisch and liddell, the two best guards we have had playing together since at least claggett and waldman only took 9 shots. two of kevins were shot clock necessities and i think about 5 of tommies were as well. we know from past experience that both can get that pull up fade away just about anytime they want and especially against the likes of detroit mercy. the fact they didnt isnt because they have forgotten anything or cant do it anymore. my bet is it is because there is a bigger picture that is being painted and kevin and tommie are indeed buying in.

i think we need to let the season play out. that doesnt mean we wont all come here and b!tch and moan after every game. hell that is where all the fun is with being a diehard like all of us are. but in the same sense, when i go home frutrated that my favorite player kevin lisch only shot 3 times, i will tell myself "it's for a grander scheme. it will all pay off in the long run". for this first year you can bet i can get through it. then we can all re-evaluate what the hell is going on.

[slufanskip]

first i want to clarify that i love tommie. my second favorite player on the team. imo he has the most pro potential of any player at slu since hughes. and i think he has a chance to make it big.

second i want to say i totally understand tdell frustrations and it upsets me that others dont. my gosh, have you never had a son or daughter that played a sport? as someone pointed out, as much of a billiken fan as any parent might be, they are bound to be a bigger fan of their own flesh and blood than the billikens and if loving and wanting their child to succeed is a crime, well then call a lot of us guilty. i know that if my daughter ends up pitching at a competing school in few years, you can bet if they face the billikens, i wont be wearing blue that day.

skip, in your post you seem certain that majerus would have also recruited tommie. i dont know. i think we are seeing a pattern to his coaching actions and the players he is recruiting and some of the things being said in interviews and post game Q&A to see that tommie might not be the type of player he would recruit. look at this quote in timmermann's most recent blog:

"Majerus on Anthony Mitchell, who didn’t play against Detroit: Anthony’s keeping his head up. He’s trying hard. He had a very good shootaround (on Wednesday). I told him that after the game. He’s got to make a commitment to defense and to his credit, he’s trying to do it, but he doesn’t know how. I guy who tries I can lead in that direction. … I don’t know what this year’s going to be.”

what i got out of that (and of course i might be misreading between the lines) is that anthony mitchell wasnt coached on defensive fundamentals the way coach majerus would have liked to see while anthony was in high school (and folks i can assure you that eastsides coaches might be the worst in the area. i see it all the time on both the girls and boys games i have seen). well tommie came from that same high school and all we have heard about is tommie isnt playing majerus defense. you can bet when majerus recruits he is looking for the kids that are fundamentally sound from his perspective.

anyway, i think tommie liddell III is a high quality character kid. and because of that he is going to correct his problems and be a huge success over the next two year and in the long run will owe majerus big time because showing he is a good student of the game and willing to adjust is the kind of thing a coach like say don nelson looks for when trying to decide between taking say tommie or some other player that might be more of a malcontent but also athletically talented.

we are seeing majerus set the rules and establish boundaries. players have to buy in or they are out. last game lisch and liddell, the two best guards we have had playing together since at least claggett and waldman only took 9 shots. two of kevins were shot clock necessities and i think about 5 of tommies were as well. we know from past experience that both can get that pull up fade away just about anytime they want and especially against the likes of detroit mercy. the fact they didnt isnt because they have forgotten anything or cant do it anymore. my bet is it is because there is a bigger picture that is being painted and kevin and tommie are indeed buying in.

i think we need to let the season play out. that doesnt mean we wont all come here and b!tch and moan after every game. hell that is where all the fun is with being a diehard like all of us are. but in the same sense, when i go home frutrated that my favorite player kevin lisch only shot 3 times, i will tell myself "it's for a grander scheme. it will all pay off in the long run". for this first year you can bet i can get through it. then we can all re-evaluate what the hell is going on.

Yes I feel absolutely sure RM takes TL. He's just to athletically talented to pass up and to go along with that he's a good kid. If RM had him as a freshman, we wouldn't have had this conversation. RM would have been teaching him from the onset what it takes to earn minutes on his team. TL would have bought in and would be a star, just as he is now, with the growing pains in the past.