JaleJarr

If Majerus is the stand up guy you seems to believe he is, he would have been honest enough in the very beginning with the returning players. The only reason he wasn't was due to the fact that SLU would have been looking at (3) consecutive years of losing basketball.

Clock_Tower Instead, I'm frustrated with his scoring output these last 2 years, I have defended him at length these last 2 years, No disrespect Clock but you're a like a traffic investigator who happens upon crash after crash involving the same driver and yet you never connect the operator to the disasters. When you do connect the two you find someway to mitigate or absolve him from the crash. I had thought he had accepted RM and his peculiar and, at times, overbearing personality and was giving maximum effort. When TL/family decided to make their protest statement by not shaking RM's hand. I didn't make the game so I don't know if this was something that was planned or not. What I do know is that the benefits of having a closed practice is that you get to say and do pretty much what you want to say and do without being held accountable. Things such as offering to assist a senior player to transfer well into the season or vile comments about your lineage. Majerus has a well documented history so this should come as no surprise to anyone. Conversely what happened that night should come as no surprise.

It's going to be really tough on Kwamain next year. I expect defenses to cover him much the way they defended Tommie these past 2 seasons. Your going to see a lot hedging when Kwamain has the ball. I think teams will overplay him with the intent of getting the ball out of his hands. If he attempts to fight through it by overdribbling expect a lot of turnovers because the offense is not conducive to dribble penetration. Hopefully some of the returning guys will work this summer on their jumpshooting because those opportunities will be there. It's a must that Brian and Willie play the roles of studs, otherwise expect a long season.

I never said he wasn't trying to win, my point was pretty much answered by Moytoy. Given a choice of taken advantage of the current roster's talent as opposed to running his system, he has chosen to run his system irrespective of wins and losses. What did Mike Singletary say about Vernon Davis and winning?

Jimbo I've always enjoyed your post. There is always something humorous in your post but they always contain a lot of truth. It's unfair however to say Tommie somewhat packed it in due to concern about his professional future. Tommie has always made the game seem effortless. You can't average 6.9 and 6.8 rpg in your first two seasons by not giving max effort. In terms of Tommie's regression, there is a big white elephant or 800 lb gorilla in the room no one is seeing. After coming off a very successful freshmen season, Tommie suffered no sophomore slump. He raised his scoring average from 10.3ppg to 15.4ppg. His rebounding remained steady from 6.9 as a frosh to 6.8 as a soph. He even improved his defensive rebounding total from 138 to 173. Tommie raised his free throw attempts from 3.0 per game to 3.6 per game. Tommie three point shooting went from an anemic 9.5% to 45.4%. In fact he was connecting on 52.6% of his three pointers before injuring his toe in the 26th game of the season vs Dayton. Tommie scored in double figures in 28 of 33 games, reaching that figure in 19 of his last 22 games. He would score between 16-28 points in 14 of his 33 games. In those 14 games he would post averages of 21.9ppg and 6.2 rpg. He shot 57.1% overall and 57.3% in 3ptfg% in those 14 games. Clearly this guy was headed for a monster junior season, what happened? Rick Majerus happened. The new offensive philosophy de-emphasized Tommie's attacking drives to the basket. Instead Bryce Husak and other limited offensive players were rolling his way with that extra defender who simply doubled Tommie as they had no respect for the person setting the screen. The results were Tommie taking 73 less shots overall and 25 less three point shots. Tommie's scoring dipped from 15.4ppg to 12.3ppg. His rebounding also fell from 6.8rpg to 4.3rpg. Tommie's senior season would see the same trends as he matched last season's fg attempts. His 3pt attempts fell by 10 from the previous season. Go back and review all the statements about Majerus in relation to winning not being the most important goal, and put yourself in the shoes of the players seeing that statement being put it to practice game after game, one can't help but ask the question of are we really committed to winning every time out.

The best thing I can say about this coaching staff is their ability to develop players. We saw it last year in such a short period of time with Danny Brown and Bryce Husak. This year we are seeing it with Willie Reed, Kyle Cassity, and Brian Conklin. Coach is not afraid to play these guys during critical game situations. I can't wait to see these guys as juniors.

Those are some great points Jimbo. Those are some of things that had scouts looking at Tommie. There are two schools of thoughts, according to some sources there is the perception that Tommie's play has regressed, while others acknowledge the coaching change having something to do with his play. Either way Tommie will hopefully have the opportunity to open some eyes at either the NBA Camp or at Portsmouth. I don't really look at what has happened as SLU the past two seasons as being indicative of Tommie's skill level. Some of the less knowledgeable people will say he went from scoring 15.4 ppg to scoring 12 ppg and now around 13 ppg for the last two seasons, I will say almost all of those points came exclusively in a half court set. No small feat when you consider that Tommie is often going 1 on 2 and sometimes 1 on 3. Teams could do that knowing Tommie and Kevin has no other legitimate scoring threats available. Put Tommie in a situation where he can punish the defense with his passing and his ability to break down one on one defense his value will rise. If not European money is spending much better than the US dollars nowadays.

Funny that you mentioned that. I picked up on that as well. I think it was Smith who backed Kevin down and scored on a nice athletic play. He went down court as if he made the game winning shot and Lisch just smiled and took him right off the dribble for a layup on SLU's next possession. Kevin got back on defense without a word being said as if to demonstrate what you do after making a play.

Thanks for the link. I watched and cursed Tommie for most of the game for not attacking. I then started to think something was wrong with his lower back as he wasn't really closing out on the 3 point shooters. He was even playing off some guys on the perimeter as if he knew he couldn't stay with them off the dribble. Towards the end of the game he wasn't he even looking for his shot. He became more of a distributor from the free throw line as I don't think he took a shot past the halfway point of the 2nd half. Thank God for Kevin and Kwamain.

I believe his is still employed with the St Louis City Division of Corrections

I pretty much agree with you Nate as far as Willie needing to get stronger but I can foresee a scenario where his numbers will improve during conference play, at least early on until he hit some rookie wall. Tommie and Kevin as always will be the focus of the defense. That is more amplified during conference play as teams figure you stop them you pretty much stop the Billkens. This will allow Willie and Brian to take advantage of over aggressive defenses with offensive rebounds and easy put backs. I can't find the post but I did post once in the past how I felt Willie was a critical player. I felt his athleticism would allow him to have some success as teams concentrated on Tommie and Kevin. I never saw Brian coming.

You would think given Brett's size he would play but that didn't factor in the Detroit Mercy game. I think Xavier is going to come out and play real aggressive against our guards like they did last year but I think we'll be better prepared with guys like Willie and Brian. Bryce and Barry didn't make them pay for that over aggressive defense last year but with Willie in there, provided he stays out of foul trouble you can throw over the top of that defense like they did against Kent State. I also see Brian getting a few offensive rebounds in this game too.

[John was the more productive high school player and came from a program that won state and finished second in back-to-back seasons.] You have to mention that John was one of three Division I basketball players on that team. That makes a helluva difference in relation to team success. I won't go into the Missouri/Illinois high school basketball discussion.

Jale my question to you is Tommie encouraged or discouraged from attacking the basket? I agree that we are a better team when he takes it inside. Does Rick allow him to freelance"? The point I'm trying to make is that Coach Majerus has a proven system. One that has won on the biggest stages. The problem at present is that he has senior players that don't neccesarily fit his system. What do you do? Do you allow those players to freelance or do you stay true to your system? I don't fault Majerus one iota for staying true to his system, its proven. People just need to realize the position these players are in before they make critical statements about a particular player's desire or performance. It appears to me we are running more pick and rolls which allows Tommie to break his man down. Does the game plan change from game to game? My question is it Rick or is it Tommie. As an aside to this I don't like Kevin as the backup point guard. When he has the ball in his hands to much he tries to penetrate and that is not his game. The pick and roll is only effective if the defense has to respect the guy that is setting the pick. For the last 2 years that hasn't been the case at SLU. Teams never had to respect guys like Husak and Knollmeyer when they came out and picked.The same is true now as the people who are setting the picks are freshmen. They will eventually grow into their roles but they are not there yet. Essentially what you are doing is running a double team out to Kevin and Tommie when the big men come out and pick, this won't be the case within a few years. The big men that are being recruited into SLU are more skilled that what SLU had to offer in the past. As far as Kevin being a point guard I've never agreed with that. You take away one of his greatest skills as a scorer. Kevin with the ball draws attention. I like Kevin off the ball with his ability to find holes in the defense or as an outlet to Tommie when he is penetrating the lane.

From The Dude "TL seemed to play with a tremendous amount of enthusiasm in the two contests against Kent State and BC". Above I illustrated how the whole team benefits when Tommie is allowed to aggressively attack the rim, here I will show what happens when he plays within the restraints of the offense Lets look at the Nebraska game. Tommie was officially 4/10 from the field with no free throw attempts. Of those 6 shots missed by Tommie, we retrieved two for a total of 2 second chance points (Conklin). None of his 6 misses were classified as layups, all jumpshots. When Tommie is turned into a jumpshooter, the whole team suffers as the defense can remain stout. In the Detroit game Tommie was officially 6/11 from the field and 2/3 from the line. Unlike the Kent State and BC game all 5 of his misses were unproductive as they were all jumpshots rebounded by Detroit. Tommies 16 points and 11 official shots seems aggressive but they are misleading as he scored 4 quick points after being inserted into the game in the 1st half and 11 other points came in the last 2 minutes of the game. In other words 14 of his 16 points came within a very small time frame. Now some will argue that Tommie needs to attack more but....

Quote from the Dude "On the positive side (for the sensitive types on this forum), TL seemed to play with a tremendous amount of enthusiasm in the two contests against Kent State and BC. The surrounding cast and freshman talent seemed to inspire him; or maybe it is just a sense of relief in knowing it's no longer up to KL and him to put points on the board". I was waiting for someone to pick up on this. Those games were coached differently. Tommie was allowed to operate on the boundaries of Majerus' offense. The results were tighter games and more opportunities for the post players. Tommie missed 9 shots vs. Kent State. Of those 9 misses, only 4 were rebounded by Kent State. The other 5 were offensive rebounds which led to 9 second chance points. For the game Tommie was officially 5/14 in total fgs and 9/11 from the line. A very aggressive stat line in a very tight game. In the BC game Tommie was only 3/13 from the field. 5 of those misses were rebounded by BC. We got the other 5. Those 5 offensive rebounds led to 8 second chance points. 6 of those points were by our big men. The other 2 came on a short jumpshot by Mitchell. This is classic Tommie as his penetration causes the defense to get out of position which leads to opportunities for our bigs. If any other player on this team shoots 3/13 it is a non-productive day but for Tommie it's not. Tommie was officially 3/13 fgs and 3/5 from the line. A very aggressive stat line in a very tight game.

"But Brad did not get TL to really play hard defense like Anthony Drejaj did". Brad also never got Drejaj to rebound and help out on post players like Tommie did. Your going to have guys on the team who are assigned certain roles. Drejaj role was to be the defensive stopper. He was very good at that role. You single Tommie out but a lot of players on that team did not defend like Drejaj. "Still remember plays, like the clear-out for TL with only seconds left in the game (believe UMass) only to have TL's high dribble stolen and turned into a game ending layup". You somehow leave out that Tommie was a last minute decision to play that game due to a severe toe injury. He tore off a toenail in the Dayton game prior to UMass. Giving Tommie a clear out on one good wheel was probably not the best decision.

I'll bite Clock. I think Tommie would be playing better statistically under Coach Soderberg simply for the fact he was recruited to play in Coach Soderberg's system. Tommie skillset has never meshed with Coach Majerus' system. Majerus' system relies on precise movements and positioning, almost robot-like. This is not criticism just a statement of fact. Guys who are shooters will have more success in this offense. Guys who are slashers will struggle mightily in this offense. Tommie is not a classic shooter. He is a slasher who has the ability to make jumpshots. To illustrate this points lets look at Kevin, when Kevin is making his jumpshots he looks all-world on the court. When those shots are not falling he looks pedestrian. When Kevin's shots are not falling he begins to penetrate almost everytime down. That's the worst thing you can do in this offense as there is not enough spacing and no other threats besides Kevin and Tommie to distract the defense. What happens next is the defense collapses which leads to tougher shots or turnovers. Compare Kevin's number for the Nebraska and Detroit game to his numbers vs Kent State and BC. Night and day. In the 2 close games Kevin averaged 18.5ppg on 60% fg shooting (46.1 from 3 land), with 7 assists against 4 turnovers. In the 2 bad losses Kevin averaged 10.5ppg on 17.3% fg shooting (25% from 3 land), with 3 assists against 2 turnovers. The reason I'm using Kevin's number is to illustrate how difficult it is to score in this offense when you rely almost exclusively on penetration to score points. It simply cannot work.

What game are you speaking about. It can't be the Nebraska game as Kevin's usual prior to this game was about 18.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, and 3 apg. Kevin didn't come nowhere near his usual game. This was a poor game for all the seniors.

- This one was not on the freshmen. Conklin and Cotto played very well. Our seniors shot 6 of 21 from the field and simply did not play well. They must perform better if we are going to win this year. This was a weird game. Really disappointed as Tommie was listless the whole game. Lisch was off the whole game. This was a game that was played in a parallel universe as Tommie pretended to be Kevin Lisch by shooting jumpshots the whole game. Really bad jumpshots as he was settling for shots instead of attacking the rim. Kevin was over-penetrating partially due to his jumpshot being off. Tommie matched his points production vs Nebraska in the win over BC, but these 9 points were unproductive. When Tommie is attacking it creates opportunities for everyone including Lisch as his penetrations causing teams to collapse on him. This leaves gaps in the defense that guys like Reed can take advantage of, it also allows for kickouts to Kevin. Tommie shot poorly against BC but his misses were routinely rebounded by Conklin and Reed I was surprised RM went with 4 guards for most of the game. Seemed like maybe we could have used our height advantage and pounded the glass. I would have loved to see us at least try a zone defense against Nebraska. Their dribble penetration was killing us. If we played zone it would have allowed our big people to play more as they would have been responsible for a zone as opposed to their quicker players. We were caught out of position for the vast majority of this game. Still hard to know if Nebraska is any good. They could be decent but at the end of the day we still lost by 14 to a lower level Big 12 team. We'll need to play much better to have a shot against SIU. I agree 100%. I picked this game as a lost in the prediction thread however I hoping for a better showing to gauge this team potential in its early season road games. Kevin and Tommie had better get used to seeing this type of defense as Nebraska essentially played the same defense Kent State did. The only difference is that Tommie attacked Kent State which led to alot of free throws by Tommie.

is an indication of future play. THE SERIES HISTORY: Nebraska and Saint Louis are nodded in a 3-3 tie all-time, with the last meeting coming during the 1990-1991 season when Nebraska defeated the Billikens 107-79 to open the season at the San Juan Shootout. Those who enjoy patterns will appreciate the series history between the two schools, as neither team has ever won two meetings in a row (L, W, L, W, L and W for Nebraska). Nebraska is just 8-11 all-time versus the Atlantic 10 Conference, although the Huskers did win their most recent outing with the A-10 in last seasons first round NIT Devaney Center contest against the Charlotte 49ers (67-48). In the game, Ade Dagunduro scored 15 points while Jay-R Strowbridge put in 10, and the Huskers held 49er scoring sensation Leemire Goldwire to just 6 points on 2 of 13 shooting from the floor. THE PROBABLE STARTING LINEUPS: Nebraska (3-0) PG – Sek Henry (6’3” Junior, 9.0 PPG & 4.3 RPG) SG – Steve Harley (5’11” Senior, 10.3 PPG & 3.3 RPG) SF – Ade Dagunduro (6’5” Senior, 4.3 PPG & 3.0 RPG) PF – Ryan Anderson (6’4” Junior, 5.0 PPG & 6.3 RPG) C – Chris Balham (6’8” Junior, 1.3 PPG & 1.3 RPG) Saint Louis (2-1) PG – Kwamain Mitchell (5’10” Freshman, 9.3 PPG & 2.3 RPG) SG – Kevin Lisch (6’2” Senior, 18.5 PPG & 4.5 RPG) SF – Tommie Liddell III (6’4” Senior, 13.3 PPG & 9.7 RPG) PF – Brian Conklin (6’6” Freshman, 8.3 PPG & 6.0 RPG) C – Brett Thompson (6’10” Freshman, 2.0 PPG & 2.7 RPG)

I don't know if you can scout or defend what Willie is doing. What Willie is doing is taking advantage of opportunities created by KM,KL, & TL. The price teams pay for overplaying our guards is leaving our young bigs free to roam the interior. 5 out of 8 shots missed by Tommie in the 1st half were were either rebounded by Reed (3) or Conklin(2). These 5 offensive rebounds directly led to 8 points. 4 by Conklin, 2 by Reed, and 2 by Mitchell as Reed had 3 offensive rebounds off of a Tommie missed fg which led to a short jumpshot by KM. I like what BT is doing also, he was very sound with the ball and his passing. He is providing a presence in the lane along with Reed. One can easily overlook his contribution if your not paying attention but he has been a huge upgrade compared to last year post players.

That's what it feels like but at least in this situation it happened early in the year. A lot of stuff happened in this game that the coaching staff can build on. They went from 13 turnovers in the 1st half to only 5 at the end of the 2nd half. Although Kent St equaled its first half total of 7 second chance points in the 2nd half, the Billikens had 7 second chance points of their own. The coaching staff made some good adjustments in the 2nd half in relation to how Kent St were overplaying our guards. They simply threw over the top of the forwards who came out to double our guards. This led to some easy dunks by Reed. When Kent St stopped overplaying our guards, opportunities for Kevin and Tommie opened up and they took advantage. Although our newcomers are young, they all appear to be heady players. They didn't attempt to do things beyond their means. They rebounded and defended the lane in ways that our forwards and centers of last year could not do. Granted it's only one game but if this is the template we are going to see for the rest of the year we might surprise this conference once again.

or maybe Lou Holtz