OT: ESPN Layoffs

[Scoop]

I remember when all top 25 teams got their 5 seconds if they played that night.  Not anymore.  To many opinions and stories.  I dubbed Stephen A "the remote" 10 years ago because that's what I reach for when he comes on.  Dance who you came with and just show highlights, ESPN!  And ease up on the NFL draft...biggest overkill ever.

[majerus mojo]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

I think people are overemphasizing the amount of politics in ESPN's content. Have any of you read "Those Guys Have All the Fun", the big oral history of ESPN published 6 years ago? Their top execs plainly state that they saw their prime viewer as a white, southern, Christian male and they geared their programming toward that demographic basically until the last few years, certainly after the book came out. I think part of it was that they were losing respectability as TV in general was evolving and they were literally having SportsCenter anchors celebrate Tim Tebow's birthday on air. It was getting embarrassing. Plus, they finally realized their target demographic was only one slice of the pie. With a big NBA deal on the horizon, that's certainly a league whose fan base is a lot different than the one they're getting for SEC football.

On the topic of the ESPN book, there was an ESPN staffer who used to help negotiate the various sports rights contracts before he was "pushed out". He then joined the NFL, and essentially held a vendetta against ESPN. 

When most of the MNF crew left for NBC, Al Michaels, producers, etc., the guy that went to NFL loved working with them, so he gave them a great deal for SNF. Something ESPN wanted in addition to MNF at the time.

Once SNF went to NBC, the same guy made ESPN believe NBC also wanted to take over MNF, leaving ESPN with zero football programming. So ESPN ended up over-bidding by a significant margin. It's a pretty great story. 

Also co-sign on the MLB At Bat app/MLBtv as being well worth it for out of town fans 

[CBFan]

10 hours ago, Soderball said:

Crews was terrible. Worst coach. Demolished this program. That hit job journalism is well-placed. Any criticism of Crews is valid. I think Crews kicked a puppy and spit on a kitten once.

Funny stuff, I agree on the hit piece but what made me laugh about the piece was that I can visualize Jared Drew's face when told by a coach who was terrible that he did not belong as a player.  I can see Jared Drew thinking of all people to tell me this.

[majerus mojo]

also a shocker 

[brianstl]

ESPN doesn't have the resources to keep Andy Katz, but they to have the resources for this.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/19201723/five-poets-new-feminism

[slufan13]

Katz and Stark being let go proves that it's not about actual reporting and knowledge anymore. 

[Duff Man]

10 hours ago, Scoop said:

I remember when all top 25 teams got their 5 seconds if they played that night.  Not anymore.  To many opinions and stories.  I dubbed Stephen A "the remote" 10 years ago because that's what I reach for when he comes on.  Dance who you came with and just show highlights, ESPN!  And ease up on the NFL draft...biggest overkill ever.

A lot of good points have been made in this thread and in the wake of this it's easy to try and act like "change-you-didn't-like" was the reason, but for me Disney cooked the golden goose that was SportsCenter.

In the early 90s, SportsCenter was the straw that stirred the drink. Appointment television. You got highlights, you got witty (not hackney'd) reactions to those highlights from guys like Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann (before he became an insufferable blowhard), Craig Kilborn (who could make regular season George Muresan "highlights" entertaining) and others.

Most significantly, the experience of watching SportsCenter every day turned non-fans into casual fans, casual fans into die hard fans, and the dividends paid off over the long haul as those fans NEEDED to have ESPN, even as SportsCenter was watered/dumbed down/re-calibrated towards target demos (I haven't watched regularly since ~2003), the influence of the halcyon 90s SportsCenter era could still be seen on my cable bill.

Maybe I'm off the mark - and surely there's winds that have shifted that are beyond anyone's control - but it's my opinion that ESPN would be in a much better position if SportsCenter was still the best sports hour on television.

[Bobby Metzinger]

5 minutes ago, brianstl said:

ESPN doesn't have the resources to keep Andy Katz, but they to have the resources for this.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/19201723/five-poets-new-feminism

I think females have an increasingly large presence in the sporting world, Brian. Gone are the "sideline reporter" only roles. You'll see more Doris Burkes and less Erin Andrews probably. Now do I think ESPN is off-base promoting an agenda here that has little do with sports? Sure. But they also see the need to diversify and appeal to a wider spectrum of viewers/clickers, etc.

[Bobby Metzinger]

2 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

A lot of good points have been made in this thread and in the wake of this it's easy to try and act like "change-you-didn't-like" was the reason, but for me Disney cooked the golden goose that was SportsCenter.

In the early 90s, SportsCenter was the straw that stirred the drink. Appointment television. You got highlights, you got witty (not hackney'd) reactions to those highlights from guys like Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann (before he became an insufferable blowhard), Craig Kilborn (who could make regular season George Muresan "highlights" entertaining) and others.

Most significantly, the experience of watching SportsCenter every day turned non-fans into casual fans, casual fans into die hard fans, and the dividends paid off over the long haul as those fans NEEDED to have ESPN, even as SportsCenter was watered/dumbed down/re-calibrated towards target demos (I haven't watched regularly since ~2003), the influence of the halcyon 90s SportsCenter era could still be seen on my cable bill.

Maybe I'm off the mark - and surely there's winds that have shifted that are beyond anyone's control - but it's my opinion that ESPN would be in a much better position if SportsCenter was still the best sports hour on television.

I think mid-90s "SportsCenter" also got hot with the O.J. trial. Mark Schwartz's coverage was the stuff of legends. I was in grade school, and it was summertime and it was "SC" in the morning until "Price is Right" came on. That was morning in America.

[RUBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Pistol said:

I confess to liking Pardon The Interruption when it was new, but as every subsequent show built off that format and as the two PTI stars became their own biggest fan, that became unwatchable, too.

This is spot on.  Old school PTI was both a blessing and a curse for ESPN.  It had phenomenal ratings and probably made them a boatload of cash, but a curse because they essentially tried to turn every show into PTI.  When you just had PTI and it was these 2 newspaper guys who were friends / colleagues for such a long time and were both very knowledgeable about sports, it was great.  When those 2 guys became "TV personalities" instead of sports reporters and PTI was just white noise with all of the other hot take / guys arguing shows, the whole channel began to suck.

[brianstl]

1 minute ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

I think females have an increasingly large presence in the sporting world, Brian. Gone are the "sideline reporter" only roles. You'll see more Doris Burkes and less Erin Andrews probably. Now do I think ESPN is off-base promoting an agenda here that has little do with sports? Sure. But they also see the need to diversify and appeal to a wider spectrum of viewers/clickers, etc.

Did you read the link?  

My problems isn't with women's sports coverage, female PBP announcers or anything like that.

My problem is that they are spending diminishing resources on "Five poets of the new feminism".  They have money to pay feminists poets, but not Andy Katz, Len Elmore or Jayson Stark.  It is a goddamn sports content provider. 

[Bobby Metzinger]

Just now, brianstl said:

Did you read the link?  

My problems isn't with women's sports coverage, female PBP announcers or anything like that.

My problem is that they are spending diminishing resources on "Five poets of the new feminism".  They have money to pay feminists poets, but not Andy Katz, Len Elmore or Jayson Stark.  It is a goddamn sports content provider. 

I think that's an interesting premise, Brian. A poster was referencing CNN's "Headline News" having a sports segment, etc. I'm not sure CNN viewers moaned and griped when CNN went from Crossfire to crosschecking, but it seems where CNN (shocker for me even saying this) succeeded to keep viewers tuned in by branching out to more than just news, it seemed that ESPN fell short or flat when it tried to push the limits of pop culture/politics/race & gender issues.

[JMM28]

Someone could pickup a few of these folks and start or supplement a really nice site with content, podcasts, and some streaming video. 

[brianstl]

8 minutes ago, Bobby Metzinger said:

I think that's an interesting premise, Brian. A poster was referencing CNN's "Headline News" having a sports segment, etc. I'm not sure CNN viewers moaned and griped when CNN went from Crossfire to crosschecking, but it seems where CNN (shocker for me even saying this) succeeded to keep viewers tuned in by branching out to more than just news, it seemed that ESPN fell short or flat when it tried to push the limits of pop culture/politics/race & gender issues.

Sports news has always been considered news and shared space with the other news since the rise of multi daily newspapers in every city.

I would question CNN's success with keeping viewers tuned in by branching out to more than just the traditional cable news line-up.  Out of all non news shows that Zucker added only one survived, Parts Unknown (a show I really enjoy).  And, even that has been relegated to the weekends.

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Someone could pickup a few of these folks and start or supplement a really nice site with content, podcasts, and some streaming video. 

Sooo let's start a business. 

[Pistol]

47 minutes ago, brianstl said:

ESPN doesn't have the resources to keep Andy Katz, but they to have the resources for this.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/article/19201723/five-poets-new-feminism

I'm with you on this one. It's more of the shift from information to sports entertainment content.

And I'm 100% behind the expansion of their roster of on-air female talent. Doris Burke and Jessica Mendoza are excellent. It's nice to have people other than smarmy middle-aged guys behind the desk (which isn't to say those dudes need to go away, by any means). More voices, including female voices, are good for everybody. They also still need more women in the offices. Despite their efforts in the past few years, there's a hangover from the old boys club that ruled for 30+ years.

But that sort of spin-off entertainment content? Who is that even for?

Explain to Dana O'Neil why she's sending out resumes today while someone else is getting paid to post poems.

[Pistol]

College basketball and the NHL have been gutted there. College football took more hits than expected, but they're still well staffed. They got rid of some team-specific guys but not all. The ones that bum me out the most are Andy Katz, Dana O'Neil, Eamon Brennan, Len Elmore, (I know we're all on the same page with those four), Jayson Stark, the NHL guys, and Ethan Strauss, who I'm not sure many would know by name but is one of the most interesting sports voices out there today. He was their Warriors beat writer, basically. One of the smartest, most compelling people writing about sports today, period. I'm sure he'll land on his feet somewhere.

[brianstl]

12 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'm with you on this one. It's more of the shift from information to sports entertainment content.

And I'm 100% behind the expansion of their roster of on-air female talent. Doris Burke and Jessica Mendoza are excellent. It's nice to have people other than smarmy middle-aged guys behind the desk (which isn't to say those dudes need to go away, by any means). More voices, including female voices, are good for everybody. They also still need more women in the offices. Despite their efforts in the past few years, there's a hangover from the old boys club that ruled for 30+ years.

But that sort of spin-off entertainment content? Who is that even for?

Explain to Dana O'Neil why she's sending out resumes today while someone else is getting paid to post poems.

Or explain to Hannah Storm why she is having to take a pay cut and a reduced role.  Or explain to the multiple quality female sports reporters why they have to be laid off instead of eliminating the poetry crap.  

And can ESPN please release Sage Steele from whatever penalty box they hidden her in.  You think they would have had the decency to have laid her off yesterday.  Steele is the kind of talent that would have no problem getting a major role with another outlet.

[majerus mojo]

1 hour ago, Duff Man said:

A lot of good points have been made in this thread and in the wake of this it's easy to try and act like "change-you-didn't-like" was the reason, but for me Disney cooked the golden goose that was SportsCenter.

In the early 90s, SportsCenter was the straw that stirred the drink. Appointment television. You got highlights, you got witty (not hackney'd) reactions to those highlights from guys like Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann (before he became an insufferable blowhard), Craig Kilborn (who could make regular season George Muresan "highlights" entertaining) and others.

Most significantly, the experience of watching SportsCenter every day turned non-fans into casual fans, casual fans into die hard fans, and the dividends paid off over the long haul as those fans NEEDED to have ESPN, even as SportsCenter was watered/dumbed down/re-calibrated towards target demos (I haven't watched regularly since ~2003), the influence of the halcyon 90s SportsCenter era could still be seen on my cable bill.

Maybe I'm off the mark - and surely there's winds that have shifted that are beyond anyone's control - but it's my opinion that ESPN would be in a much better position if SportsCenter was still the best sports hour on television.

SportsCenter is largely obsolete now. It was at its apex when you NEEDED to watch ESPN to see highlights. Now, I can hop on twitter/MLB app/google etc., and find whichever game highlights, whenever it happens to cross my mind. I also have the option of choosing which outlet or writer I want to hear from regarding said game

[Littlebill]

40 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Sooo let's start a business. 

Andy Katz, Billikens Beat Writer

[slufanskip]

At one time they were the only game in town. Is there anyone who would rather watch ESPN baseball highlights and news rather than the mlb network? Real fans have so many other sources. I no longer follow the NFL but I'd assume they have their own highlight show, plus you have FS1 and the internet.

Also I'm not sure ESPN should have decided their political views were important. I'm not saying this is the cause, however, when your viewership is declining it doesn't make sense to alienate 50% of your audience

[JMM28]

41 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Sooo let's start a business. 

Can @jimbofive be our PFTCommenter and @Box and Won our potentially less douchey Darren Rovell? Also will they all work for equity?

 

And how does a douchebag like Rovell survive and Katz doesn't? I mean come on. They've got Shellburne that does the real sports biz work there. 

[billikenfan05]

Just now, JMM28 said:

Can @jimbofive be our PFTCommenter and @Box and Won our potentially less douchey Darren Rovell? Also will they all work for equity?

 

And how does a douchebag like Rovell survive and Katz doesn't? I mean come on. They've got Shellburne that does the real sports biz work there. 

I'll go ahead and start putting on weight and buy a vape pen.

[Old guy]

A bit OT, but just wanted to mention that Disney is indeed a big company making lots of money. It can sustain a loser branch or subsidiary or department for a certain amount of time but they cannot do so forever. ESPN may lose money as long as its management can sell corporate that they will turn around. Eventually their optimistic projections will become less believable at corporate level. This will be the beginning of the end for ESPN, as we know it.

[Box and Won]

14 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Can @jimbofive be our PFTCommenter and @Box and Won our potentially less douchey Darren Rovell? Also will they all work for equity?

 

And how does a douchebag like Rovell survive and Katz doesn't? I mean come on. They've got Shellburne that does the real sports biz work there. 

Let's light this candle.  

I'll be ready to post my review of the Busch Stadium meatball cone later this afternoon.