Scott VanPelt excellent piece on NIL this morning on Sportscenter

[billiken_roy]

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/39434025 

Great take imo.

[OkieBilliken]

For twenty years all we heard people say is "We should just pay the players."    And now we are here.   Great job geniuses.   You are about to completely ruin college football and basketball.    

I've never been more ready for college baseball and soccer season.  Two weeks from tomorrow I will be watching the Bills play in Port Charlotte.   No worrying about NIL money there.  Hell we don't even have grass on our outfield.   

[3star_recruit]

11 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

For twenty years all we heard people say is "We should just pay the players."    And now we are here.   Great job geniuses.   You are about to completely ruin college football and basketball.    

I've never been more ready for college baseball and soccer season.  Two weeks from tomorrow I will be watching the Bills play in Port Charlotte.   No worrying about NIL money there.  Hell we don't even have grass on our outfield.   

Passing a rule to pay the athletes a $500 month stipend seems like common sense today.  It was only fair since they were not allowed to have summer jobs and college sports has grown into a multi-billion dollar enterprise.  But the institutions involved, both the NCAA and its member schools, were too greedy.  And too short-sighted.  The folks who could have addressed the issue 20 years ago are retired or gone today.

[billiken_roy]

3 Star is right.  Had the NCAA years ago gave the athletes minimal stipend for living expenses, enough money for a movie and pizza on the weekend, gas money, etc.  I'm guessing it would have never come to this.  Now the toothpaste is out of the tube and there is no way to put it back.  It's a mess and who knows where it leads.  

[JMM28]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Passing a rule to pay the athletes a $500 month stipend seems like common sense today.  It was only fair since they were not allowed to have summer jobs and college sports has grown into a multi-billion dollar enterprise.  But the institutions involved, both the NCAA and its member schools, were too greedy.  And too short-sighted.  The folks who could have addressed the issue 20 years ago are retired or gone today.

When I finally said "Yeah these guys are getting screwed" was when the kicker from UCF with a youtube channel was told he had to delete it or lose his eligibility. The tOSU tattoo stuff was silly too. 

[Lord Elrond]

Yeah, @3star_recruit is right, a little forward thinking would have solved the problem, but thinking has never been a NCAA strength. I also think Scott Van Pelt nailed it, this NIL is not sustainable. How they solve it is beyond me.

[willie]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

3 Star is right.  Had the NCAA years ago gave the athletes minimal stipend for living expenses, enough money for a movie and pizza on the weekend, gas money, etc.  I'm guessing it would have never come to this.  Now the toothpaste is out of the tube and there is no way to put it back.  It's a mess and who knows where it leads.  

Didn't this all start with a UCLA basketball player [Tyus Edney]?  who sued when his image was used in a video game. He sued and won in the courts and that opened up the can. I am sure someone out there has a better recollection. 

[someoneelse]

10 minutes ago, willie said:

Didn't this all start with a UCLA basketball player [Tyus Edney]?  who sued when his image was used in a video game. He sued and won in the courts and that opened up the can. I am sure someone out there has a better recollection. 

I think it was Ed O'Bannon.

 

Once colleges woke up and determined what a gold mine a good college athletics department was for literal gold, and reputation, coaches were better paid, facilities were better etc.  Everyone got rich off it but the players. I don't think $500 per month keeps the troops in line with Jimbo Fischer getting $75? MM.  

 

Remember the Flutie effect?  I toured Villanova in the late 80s and the tourguide openly said that their applicant pool got better since winning the national title.  

[slu72]

The BC head football coach just quit and took a job as a coordinator with the Packers. He cited the NIL and the portal as reasons. College ball he said has become less about coaching and teaching than fund raising, searching the portal, and trying to keep his players out of the portal. And I’m pretty sure Harbaugh left college ball for the NFL for the same reasons. 
The whole college sports world has been tossed on its ear and the worst is yet to come when the greedy P5/6 decides to dump the NCAA as their ruling authority. 

[3star_recruit]

42 minutes ago, someoneelse said:

I think it was Ed O'Bannon.

 

Once colleges woke up and determined what a gold mine a good college athletics department was for literal gold, and reputation, coaches were better paid, facilities were better etc.  Everyone got rich off it but the players. I don't think $500 per month keeps the troops in line with Jimbo Fischer getting $75? MM.  

 

Remember the Flutie effect?  I toured Villanova in the late 80s and the tourguide openly said that their applicant pool got better since winning the national title.  

Coaches were not making that kind of coin 20 years ago.  If you would have offered a $500 stipend to athletes back then, 99% of them would have gladly taken it.   Instead they were told they were getting a free education and shut up.

[Brighton]

2 hours ago, someoneelse said:

I think it was Ed O'Bannon.

 

Once colleges woke up and determined what a gold mine a good college athletics department was for literal gold, and reputation, coaches were better paid, facilities were better etc.  Everyone got rich off it but the players. I don't think $500 per month keeps the troops in line with Jimbo Fischer getting $75? MM.  

 

Remember the Flutie effect?  I toured Villanova in the late 80s and the tourguide openly said that their applicant pool got better since winning the national title.  

and that's what SLU has failed to understand and will continue to not understand.

[Soderball]

8 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

3 Star is right.  Had the NCAA years ago gave the athletes minimal stipend for living expenses, enough money for a movie and pizza on the weekend, gas money, etc.  I'm guessing it would have never come to this.  Now the toothpaste is out of the tube and there is no way to put it back.  It's a mess and who knows where it leads.  

The problem is that the courts are involved now and we already have precedent-setting decisions that say that the players MUST be allowed to be paid, to transfer at-will, etc.

 

The only way to reverse this is a SUPREME COURT DECISION at this point. There's too many state courts, federal courts, different federal jurisdictions, etc all involved. This isn't about sports and it's not about the NCAA and it's not about anything else. Modern college sports right now is a POLITICAL ISSUE.

[willie]

6 minutes ago, Soderball said:

The problem is that the courts are involved now and we already have precedent-setting decisions that say that the players MUST be allowed to be paid, to transfer at-will, etc.

 

The only way to reverse this is a SUPREME COURT DECISION at this point. There's too many state courts, federal courts, different federal jurisdictions, etc all involved. This isn't about sports and it's not about the NCAA and it's not about anything else. Modern college sports right now is a POLITICAL ISSUE.

Congress could pass a law regulating all of this. Don’t hold your breath. 

[billiken_roy]

soderball, it wont get reversed.   but i believe college basketball will eventually greatly suffer.   as i have sad numeous times.   if we want to watch professional basketball why watch an overpaid version of the G-League.   eventually the whales will refuse to buck up and the need for cash will have to come from somewhere.   where they gonna get it?

[Soderball]

1 minute ago, willie said:

Congress could pass a law regulating all of this. Don’t hold your breath. 

If i held my breath waiting for this congress to do something i'd be dead. so don't worry, i won't.

[Soderball]

Just now, billiken_roy said:

soderball, it wont get reversed.   but i beleive college basketball will eventually greatly suffer.   as i have sad numeous times.   if we want to watch professional basketball why watch an overpaid version of the G-League.   eventually the whales will refuse to buck up and the need for cash will have to come from somewhere.   where they gonna get it?

Who knows. IMO i think collegiate athletics as we know it is at risk of total collapse. I think eventually you are right that a few big football schools will just have professional football teams that they pay a salary to(and they can afford since people don't want to give it up for at least 1-2 more generations) .. eventually all of this stuff is going down the drain IMO.

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, willie said:

Congress could pass a law regulating all of this. Don’t hold your breath. 

Congress couldn't fix a leaking toilet.  Why do you think they could fix this? 

[Lord Elrond]

Congress will never come up with a plan to fix it on their own. There needs to be a coherent plan that fixes things presented to them. Exactly what is that plan that the NCAA is going to tell Congress to pass to fix it? I’ve yet to see anything presented as a possible fix that seems like a coherent plan that could then be lobbied to Congress. Ultimately the professional leagues need to set up their own development system for players outside of colleges. Maybe it looks like baseball, where the minor leagues offer a way for a player to develop paid for by the professional clubs.  Maybe it looks like the transfer market system that developed in Europe for soccer players, where a separate club develops a player, and makes their money on transfer fees if they successfully present a good prospect for the pro leagues. Ultimately, only a very small percentage of all high school age players are good enough to play a sport professionally.  The problem with what is going on now is that the colleges are paying every player as if they all are good enough to play professionally, without getting the revenue from that sport to support it and depending on donors to pick up the tab. The colleges need to pay only what they generate in revenue from that sport to support it long term. If a professional development system is in place, then colleges could just get the players that the system decided weren’t good enough to play professionally and give them the choice of playing for them in return for a college degree, even if that player participated in the professional development system and got money for it. I imagine the offer of a free college education (with the possibility that if they play good enough in college the pros might still take them) will look a lot more attractive to someone who tried the pro development route and got told they weren’t good enough to play in the pros. As for the colleges, you don’t care how any student not in athletics got the money to go to your school, so why do you care if they made some money playing a sport before they get to your school? There would still be a need to pay players, but you could do it on a more rational basis (with the help of Congress) such as taking the revenue derived from that sport (ticket sales, tv revenue, video games, etc) and dividing up equally among the athletes in that sport. Note it’s on a per sport basis you do this, so if a school can draw 10,000 fans to every women’s field hockey game, the field hockey players get a cut of that money. Donors could still donate under this system, but they decide what sport to put their money into in addition to what school, the money goes into the general revenue derived from that sport, and a percentage (half of total revenue? Exact number would probably be set by Congress) of that revenue goes to the athletes, the rest supports the costs of that sport. Anyone that wants to use an athlete’s Name, Image and Likeness for any commercial venture is free to set up a deal with that athlete individually. Note this should still satisfy Title IX by giving access and opportunity to play to female athletes, but in terms of making money, the money they make is dependent on how popular that sport is (in other words you are granting equality of opportunity, but not guaranteeing equality of outcome). There are some sports (like Cross Country, Track and Field, Tennis) in which you could even lump the men and women together and divide the money made from it evenly. I doubt you are going to get thousands of paying customers to come out for a cross country meet, but if you do, the athletes in that sport benefit. There would have to be rules set up to define all sources of revenue for the sport. As far as transfers, if someone wants to transfer, let them, but the school that gets the athlete owes a transfer fee to the school that loses the athlete (divide it up equally between school and athlete). Donors could cover the transfer fee. The fee would be set by the legislation, maybe based on revenue. What makes this work is that the scholarship offer isn’t a 1 year offer, it’s a 4 year commitment by the school to the player.  If the school judged wrong and got a guy who’s not very good, tough, you still owe him the scholarship as long as he’s performing academically.  Just my thoughts. I’m not sure anything saves college sports as we know it, but it should be possible to salvage what we can and end up with something that everyone can live with. It may be a long shot at this point.

[billiken_roy]

1. take off all shackles for going straight to the pro's.   if a 16 year old kid thinks he can be a new york knick and the knicks want him and will pay him big bucks, let it happen.

2. create a sensible living wage and expense template for all college athletes in all sports.   enough to live and have a few bucks for a pizza and a movie on weekends and gas money for the used car the school has let the athlete have for a reasonable lease amount. 

3. reenact all academic requirements both coming into the school and staying in the school that would get the student athlete graduated with a real degree in 5 years max.  those athletes that think they are coming to college just to play their sport will be "encouraged" to go play their sport in the professional ranks.  they are not students.  

4.  the majority of the ncaa police work should be focused on academics and the student athlete getting their degrees. major major penalties for any program looking to pay above the scale and giving undeserved bonus gifts of any kind.   again, if the athlete is that good, he or she should just leave school and go to the pros.

results, the big time athletes that deserve big money and amenities can get such in the pros and the ncaa can not be accused of holding them hostage. the pros can develop their own minor leagues. 

the student athletes that most of us really care about, are resurrected and college athletics returns to the real world where we can enjoy young men and women competing for the love of competition and loyalty to their school.  the student althletes are able to live in relative comfort without struggling.   the majority will likely stay where they are rather than play free agent every year since the pay scale will be the same for everyone at all schools.  those that do enter the portal are transferring for reasons other than financial windfalls. 

boosters will be more eager to participate financially to support schools total athletic department as the dollars make sense for all concerned and give the programs a chance to develop and maintain players for the right reasons and no school has an advantage financially. 

the real key is developing and focusing on college is for students first and athletics second.   sure their will be less talent overall, but the real reason people watch any sport is for competition.  and if all the programs are participating under the above, even though inhuman athletes will be rare, student athletes of great character will emerge and imo the finished "product" will be a lot more enjoyable to follow. 

there send it to washington to finish the details. 

[willie]

10 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Congress couldn't fix a leaking toilet.  Why do you think they could fix this? 

I don't Thats why I said don't hold your breath

[thunderdan]

18 hours ago, slu72 said:

The BC head football coach just quit and took a job as a coordinator with the Packers. He cited the NIL and the portal as reasons. College ball he said has become less about coaching and teaching than fund raising, searching the portal, and trying to keep his players out of the portal. And I’m pretty sure Harbaugh left college ball for the NFL for the same reasons. 
The whole college sports world has been tossed on its ear and the worst is yet to come when the greedy P5/6 decides to dump the NCAA as their ruling authority. 

Same with Nick Sabin retiring.  I'm sure he's not a fan of (the presently-constructed) NIL.

[someoneelse]

4 minutes ago, thunderdan said:

Same with Nick Sabin retiring.  I'm sure he's not a fan of (the presently-constructed) NIL.

And Jay Wright.  

[JMM28]

24 minutes ago, thunderdan said:

Same with Nick Sabin retiring.  I'm sure he's not a fan of (the presently-constructed) NIL.

Most of the old guys retiring and blaming NIL are just angry that everyone gets to play the bag man game now, not just them. They had a great run, though. 

[slu72]

Some good points, B’roy. Especially lifting the restriction from going pro. And now with the G league the NBA can pick up the tab for developing prospective pros. The NFL should create a farm system with the spring football league for the same purpose. For too long the pros have been using college FB and hoops as free minor leagues. 
VanPelts right that the NIL along with the portal is an unsustainable business model  for college sports. It’s the Wild West out there. Even pros don’t have the freedoms college players do. Maybe one way to slow down the portal is to make all players sign a 2 year contract with the school they initially sign with. And if they then transfer they sign with their new school for another two years. In that way you’re restricting the player from multiple transfers, which is no different from free agent pros who sign term contracts. 
The problem with the NIL is that top talents don’t want to give up the huge paydays they’ve been getting. If suddenly they are told they will receive just a monthly stipend, you can bet there will be a blizzard of law suits. I don’t know how in our capitalist free market any governing body can regulate or legislate a fixed rate of pay. NIL opened Pandora’s box and we’re stuck in this quagmire until the big donors or sponsors get tapped out as VanPelt expects. 

[Soderball]

3 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Some good points, B’roy. Especially lifting the restriction from going pro. And now with the G league the NBA can pick up the tab for developing prospective pros. The NFL should create a farm system with the spring football league for the same purpose. For too long the pros have been using college FB and hoops as free minor leagues. 
VanPelts right that the NIL along with the portal is an unsustainable business model  for college sports. It’s the Wild West out there. Even pros don’t have the freedoms college players do. Maybe one way to slow down the portal is to make all players sign a 2 year contract with the school they initially sign with. And if they then transfer they sign with their new school for another two years. In that way you’re restricting the player from multiple transfers, which is no different from free agent pros who sign term contracts. 
The problem with the NIL is that top talents don’t want to give up the huge paydays they’ve been getting. If suddenly they are told they will receive just a monthly stipend, you can bet there will be a blizzard of law suits. I don’t know how in our capitalist free market any governing body can regulate or legislate a fixed rate of pay. NIL opened Pandora’s box and we’re stuck in this quagmire until the big donors or sponsors get tapped out as VanPelt expects. 

they become employees; i foresee a flurry of lawsuits if the ladies aren't getting the same payouts and so on. Good luck passing a law.

The only real option is to BOTH: get rid of the "athletic department" as we know it in entirety, AND hire a team of professional football players for that specific purpose, like the NFL or UFL or whatever does.