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Taj79
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Yeah, I'm back.  Much to the chagrin of a few I guess (more than a few probably) looking at the latest NIL issue(s).  The provided link is a read from ESPN and I hope you have ESPN+ sign-in rights to read it.  

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34548517/from-cavinder-twins-kendric-davis-transfers-cash-big-college-basketball

I have to still admit that I don't get it.  Yet thanks to those who explained the Instagram followers part of it all but outside of Emoni Bates, Nigel Pack, Andre Cubelo and Courtney Ramy, none of these folks strike me as household names of any significance.  Bates because we played him at Memphis.  Pack because of his being in the news on his transfer to Miami.  Curbelo because he was at Illinois.  And Ramey because he's from St. Louis.  Still, it's a good read that clears everything crystal like mud.  

I'm still left wondering just what Armando Bacot did at UNC for half a million dollars last year.  What did Miller do for that tech company?  What will Pack do to shine off the court?  Will anyone know Edert at Bryant?  Will Davis lose luster underperforming with Penny's usual under performing crew?  What cachet does the Ole Miss lady carry forward to Tennessee?  I get Parrish moving back home, even just as a minimum.  I'm glad kids can make money, but what is a good deal vis-a-vis a really good deal?  St. John's hasn't been relevant in the Big East for a while now and if they underperform, what does Curbelo gain?  The fact that Ohio State needs $13 million annually for it's athletes in NIL seems absurd,  very much like pay-for-play --- but they are a money machine in Columbus.  I wonder what Penn State paid for that freshmen flock of talent in their backfield right now and how did the QB escape tOSU?  

Oh well, it's an interesting read.

 

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13 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Yeah, I'm back.  Much to the chagrin of a few I guess (more than a few probably) looking at the latest NIL issue(s).  The provided link is a read from ESPN and I hope you have ESPN+ sign-in rights to read it.  

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34548517/from-cavinder-twins-kendric-davis-transfers-cash-big-college-basketball

I have to still admit that I don't get it.  Yet thanks to those who explained the Instagram followers part of it all but outside of Emoni Bates, Nigel Pack, Andre Cubelo and Courtney Ramy, none of these folks strike me as household names of any significance.  Bates because we played him at Memphis.  Pack because of his being in the news on his transfer to Miami.  Curbelo because he was at Illinois.  And Ramey because he's from St. Louis.  Still, it's a good read that clears everything crystal like mud.  

I'm still left wondering just what Armando Bacot did at UNC for half a million dollars last year.  What did Miller do for that tech company?  What will Pack do to shine off the court?  Will anyone know Edert at Bryant?  Will Davis lose luster underperforming with Penny's usual under performing crew?  What cachet does the Ole Miss lady carry forward to Tennessee?  I get Parrish moving back home, even just as a minimum.  I'm glad kids can make money, but what is a good deal vis-a-vis a really good deal?  St. John's hasn't been relevant in the Big East for a while now and if they underperform, what does Curbelo gain?  The fact that Ohio State needs $13 million annually for it's athletes in NIL seems absurd,  very much like pay-for-play --- but they are a money machine in Columbus.  I wonder what Penn State paid for that freshmen flock of talent in their backfield right now and how did the QB escape tOSU?  

Oh well, it's an interesting read.

 

everyone has a billion things that don't seem "significant". different strokes & all that. 50 years ago I figured progress would march on, but USA cares more about English Royalty then ever b4. none of us $'ed up for any of the McBroom nonsense but others did. as Savoy Brown once sang "wouldn't it be a drag if we were all the same"

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11 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

Is Ohio State really going to get their alumni to kick in 13 million a year, every year going forward? However much money the school gets from TV, none of that can be used for NIL, that’s all additional money coming out of peoples pockets.  I guess time will tell…

If your alumni body is large enough, the probability of having enough people with enough wealth to support this level of donations in a regular basis goes up. Perhaps Ohio State can do it, I suppose it is possible.

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  • 1 month later...

-from Schmidt (When the four seniors left), it was really late in the process,” Schmidt said, “so kudos to my assistant coaches, who did a great job of going out and trying to find guys that had a lot of success at a lower level … those under-the-radar type of guys that we feel have a high ceiling and have a chip on their shoulder and want to play in the A-10

-guys he recruited and coached left for greener pastures and he found guys that think Bona is a greener pasture for them

 

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Let's use the St. Bona example as a teaching lesson. The school organizes their efforts and comes up with enough money ($X amount per player they wish to keep) to guarantee significant NIL packages for all their primary players. Keep in mind that all they have achieved doing it this way, after all of the players have agreed to come back for the next season, is two fold: They set their figure as a goal to be beaten by a better offer, and they have placed their recruiting effort at a pause since the key players assured them they were coming back.

This is poor business strategy, what you have to do is to approach the issue in the opposite direction. Tell the players they will be covered by NIL packages that will go over anything they can get, and then redouble the recruiting effort. This is the result of going at it the way I describe:

1. If you can get a very good group of recruits to come in, you fix the NIL you are giving your players at a lower level than you were planning to use before. If they can get something better somewhere else, thank them for their service, bid them good bye and get the recruits. If they insist to know the level of the package you had in mind for them you can always quote 20% below what the school had planned to offer them, which should be a lot less that what they get elsewhere and see if they stay or not. In a special case you can bundle all the collected money to pay a single player and let the others go.

2. If your players refuse all other offers and want to stay with you then you give them the full package you had planned to give individually to each one of them (or you could go over that level in some cases) as a reward for their loyalty, and decide what to do with the recruits you had lined up.

Loyalty has no price, those that go after money will look first after themselves and second after the team. There is no loyalty in money, and therefore these are not team members, they become paid free agent extras. Paid help has no loyalty.

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8 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Dayton's enhanced fan supported NIL program kicked off.  Where is SLU, ahead or behind, I don't know. 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/new-organization-dayton-6th-will-support-dayton-basketball-players-in-nil-era/O767KO46QFEDLK6CQ5HVYZ6JAI/

 

SLU is definitely behind in NIL. Somehow Ford was able to convince the returning players not to jump ship over the summer when they were offered big NIL deals from other schools. I do think it has hurt recruiting this fall as he doesn't have the same loyalty factor with high school kids that he likely does with the seniors on the team.

That being said, there is work being done to set up a collective which is a critical part to keeping up with the Joneses. Once the collective is set-up it'll be up to donors, big and small, to start contributing. This isn't going away and if we ignore it, the program will quickly fade to irrelevant. 

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14 minutes ago, kshoe said:

SLU is definitely behind in NIL. Somehow Ford was able to convince the returning players not to jump ship over the summer when they were offered big NIL deals from other schools. I do think it has hurt recruiting this fall as he doesn't have the same loyalty factor with high school kids that he likely does with the seniors on the team.

That being said, there is work being done to set up a collective which is a critical part to keeping up with the Joneses. Once the collective is set-up it'll be up to donors, big and small, to start contributing. This isn't going away and if we ignore it, the program will quickly fade to irrelevant. 

-good to know, I hope it is running very soon, do you know if intended just for men's bball?

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57 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-good to know, I hope it is running very soon, do you know if intended just for men's bball?

I don't know, but let's be honest you don't really need a collective for the other sports (maybe men's soccer). The amounts players in the other sports could reasonably expect to make can be handled with the service portal the already exists. Put differently, if you are rich and like the baseball team you can hire a few of their players to come to your kids baseball practice and pay them $1,000 each. That would go a long way to helping the baseball team.

But for basketball, coach Ford NEEDS a collective that he can point to and say something like "last year we had $500k in the collective and it was split up amongst the players." That is so much more effective when talking to a recruit than saying "if you come there may be a few donors willing to pay you a 1,000 to come coach their kids basketball team."

I dislike NIL for many reasons, but the one thing I have to give it credit for is it's an elegant way for schools to pay players but not have to do it equally across sports and genders. It's purely market based and for the most part the only two sports that will generate big $ are men's basketball and football.

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1 hour ago, kshoe said:

I don't know, but let's be honest you don't really need a collective for the other sports (maybe men's soccer). The amounts players in the other sports could reasonably expect to make can be handled with the service portal the already exists. Put differently, if you are rich and like the baseball team you can hire a few of their players to come to your kids baseball practice and pay them $1,000 each. That would go a long way to helping the baseball team.

But for basketball, coach Ford NEEDS a collective that he can point to and say something like "last year we had $500k in the collective and it was split up amongst the players." That is so much more effective when talking to a recruit than saying "if you come there may be a few donors willing to pay you a 1,000 to come coach their kids basketball team."

I dislike NIL for many reasons, but the one thing I have to give it credit for is it's an elegant way for schools to pay players but not have to do it equally across sports and genders. It's purely market based and for the most part the only two sports that will generate big $ are men's basketball and football.

-thanks, I hope whoever runs this let's us know

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I think Ford is better off with high school kids who have or can develop some team spirit and loyalty. If you want to blow your money in NILs go ahead and do it, soon enough you will regret it.

High school kids who develop will not stay once the Big programs come offering big money deals so it kind of doesn't matter who you recruit if you can not compete reasonably in the NIL arena.  I hate the idea also but it doesn't help to spit into the wind either.

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On 10/26/2022 at 4:45 PM, kshoe said:

I don't know, but let's be honest you don't really need a collective for the other sports (maybe men's soccer). The amounts players in the other sports could reasonably expect to make can be handled with the service portal the already exists. Put differently, if you are rich and like the baseball team you can hire a few of their players to come to your kids baseball practice and pay them $1,000 each. That would go a long way to helping the baseball team.

But for basketball, coach Ford NEEDS a collective that he can point to and say something like "last year we had $500k in the collective and it was split up amongst the players." That is so much more effective when talking to a recruit than saying "if you come there may be a few donors willing to pay you a 1,000 to come coach their kids basketball team."

I dislike NIL for many reasons, but the one thing I have to give it credit for is it's an elegant way for schools to pay players but not have to do it equally across sports and genders. It's purely market based and for the most part the only two sports that will generate big $ are men's basketball and football.

It isn't rocket science to set this up. It is also the #1, 2, and 3 thing that recruits ask about nowadays. I know there have been some deals with players already but don't know if it has necessarily been through an official collective or just a few boosters doing what you said. 

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57 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

It isn't rocket science to set this up. It is also the #1, 2, and 3 thing that recruits ask about nowadays. I know there have been some deals with players already but don't know if it has necessarily been through an official collective or just a few boosters doing what you said. 

-give it a try and tell us how easy it is

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1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

High school kids who develop will not stay once the Big programs come offering big money deals so it kind of doesn't matter who you recruit if you can not compete reasonably in the NIL arena.  I hate the idea also but it doesn't help to spit into the wind either.

Cheeseman, my comment about NILs referred to my opinion, which you or anyone else does not have to share, that the economy is going down the tubes and private money (unless you happen to be Bezos or Gates) is going to get tight. I do not see a growing NIL based system, whatever the players may want, without a flourishing economy. I am not talking about competing in the NIL arena, I am talking about a drought of money being directed into NILs.

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3 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Cheeseman, my comment about NILs referred to my opinion, which you or anyone else does not have to share, that the economy is going down the tubes and private money (unless you happen to be Bezos or Gates) is going to get tight. I do not see a growing NIL based system, whatever the players may want, without a flourishing economy. I am not talking about competing in the NIL arena, I am talking about a drought of money being directed into NILs.

NIL money isn't necessarily going to come from a growing pot of money.  Instead, as more contributions go towards a collective, I think you'll see donations for facilities, programs, and coach's salaries likely drop.  I mean, if the NIL money becomes everything, how important is it to pay a coach top dollar or have a sweet locker room?

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3 hours ago, Old guy said:
4 minutes ago, SShoe said:

NIL money isn't necessarily going to come from a growing pot of money.  Instead, as more contributions go towards a collective, I think you'll see donations for facilities, programs, and coach's salaries likely drop.  I mean, if the NIL money becomes everything, how important is it to pay a coach top dollar or have a sweet locker room?

 

I am curious to what everyone thinks is necessary to be "competitive"? Take roughly 6,000 season ticket holders at $25/month for 12 months/year and you are at $1.8 million. I would think that would be more than enough. And to be clear, I realize 6,000 season ticket holders won't want to do it, but if even a third did, it moves the needle.

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$25 a month = $300 per year, season tickets $99 for the year. You are proposing three times that much go to NIL from every season ticket holder. And it would have to be something done every year. Not sure I see it, I see NIL as more a way for really really rich people to buy a championship for their alma mater. They used to call horse racing “the sport of Kings” because only royalty could afford it. I see NIL driving men’s football and basketball to be called “the sport of the Forbes 400”

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SShoe, your thoughts are nice, but I am afraid they are unrealistic. For one thing coaches are under contract for a specific number of years. To reduce their salary you have to start by buying the remaining time left on the contract, and then renegotiate a salary at a lower level. Dollars to doughnuts (nowadays doughnuts are probably worth more than a dollar) that Ford would not stay around to enjoy his lower salary.

I am not asking you to believe this, but money has to be available before it can donated for NILs, facilities, programs and/or coacsh salaries unless the donor takes a loan. Do you really think anyone is going to take a loan to donate money for NILs, facilities, programs and/or coach salaries?

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3 minutes ago, Old guy said:

SShoe, your thoughts are nice, but I am afraid they are unrealistic. For one thing coaches are under contract for a specific number of years. To reduce their salary you have to start by buying the remaining time left on the contract, and then renegotiate a salary at a lower level. Dollars to doughnuts (nowadays doughnuts are probably worth more than a dollar) that Ford would not stay around to enjoy his lower salary.

I am not asking you to believe this, but money has to be available before it can donated for NILs, facilities, programs and/or coacsh salaries unless the donor takes a loan. Do you really think anyone is going to take a loan to donate money for NILs, facilities, programs and/or coach salaries?

I didn't say it'd happen overnight.  But if I annually give $1,000 to the Billiken Club and there's a collective available, I might split my contribution into $500 increments, or something like that.

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