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Welcome to SLU Jimmy Bell Jr.!!!

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35 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

I know we like to speculate on what lineups and starters should be, but we are 7-1 so ford might have some idea of what he is doing. lets see if he changes things up as we get into the tougher part of the schedule

 

Conference season will highlight our weakness. No reason having bell play the first 4 min then not playing again. I just don’t get it. 
A10 is scary good this year 

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3 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Conference season will highlight our weakness. No reason having bell play the first 4 min then not playing again. I just don’t get it. 
A10 is scary good this year 

i can only assume that coach ford sees some reason, i can think of several, but what do i know

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Haven't the Bills/Jimmy Bell won every tip-off? Or nearly? That's a factor for having him start, although not one for having him stay in the game.

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2 minutes ago, Compton said:

Haven't the Bills/Jimmy Bell won every tip-off? Or nearly? That's a factor for having him start, although not one for having him stay in the game.

seven out of eight

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2 hours ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Not having to have Hasahn bang on a big for the first 5 minutes is huge. If Hasahn picks up 2 quick ones (which is still possible but less likely with Bell in) we are a totally different team. 

This is exactly it. It’s a strategic move, that’s it. No one is saying he’s one of the 5 best 

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Minutes are minutes.   Not sure why the pushback on Bell.   I like that Bell wins the opening tip, takes pressure (and hopefully fouls) off of French, rebounds and helps occupy the lane (defensively) by setting a tone to stay out of the lane - with his large 6'10" frame and French's shot blocking.  Believe the slow starts has more to do with the absence of Thatch and the superior talent of our opponents rather than Bell. 

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2 hours ago, Compton said:

Haven't the Bills/Jimmy Bell won every tip-off? Or nearly? That's a factor for having him start, although not one for having him stay in the game.

Where has winning the tip gotten us though?  We’ve fallen behind early in every game this season despite winning the tip.   Therefore all we’ve accomplished is spotting the other team an early lead and the ball to start the 2nd half (or after the 1st jump ball).

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1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

Where has winning the tip gotten us though?  We’ve fallen behind early in every game this season despite winning the tip.   Therefore all we’ve accomplished is spotting the other team an early lead and the ball to start the 2nd half (or after the 1st jump ball).

I agree. But what I'm saying is this isn't Bells fault. I think one of Yuri/ Jacobs needs to sit for Perkins/ Gibson in regards to the starting lineup. There needs to be a threat to have some spacing at the beginning of the game. I'd be shocked if Travis didn't mix it up next game. 

I think today was the most impressed I have been with Jacobs. Wasn't a scoring outburst but he looked in control of the offense while running the point and he also played some great individual defense from what I saw. He picked his spots nicely (something Yuri is still working on understandably). 

I'd go Jacobs, Jimmmerson, Goodwin, Has, Bell

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Amazing what one (1) game can do.   48 hours ago, this Board declared Hightower our third point guard b/c he can dribble better than Hargrove. Guess no one told Jacobs he couldn't play PG.  Good stuff!!

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1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

Where has winning the tip gotten us though?  We’ve fallen behind early in every game this season despite winning the tip.   Therefore all we’ve accomplished is spotting the other team an early lead and the ball to start the 2nd half (or after the 1st jump ball).

Exactly. I wanna see a score differential of the first 5 min of ya vs every other team 

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10 hours ago, dennis_w said:

I know we like to speculate on what lineups and starters should be, but we are 7-1 so ford might have some idea of what he is doing. lets see if he changes things up as we get into the tougher part of the schedule

 

We're starting at the game playing 4 on 5 on offense and then being rescued by herculean efforts by individual players.  I love to see herculean efforts but we don't have the offensive firepower for that model to be sustainable.  We can't afford to get down by 10 in the first five minutes at Auburn or Kansas State in Kansas City or on the road at Duquesne.  Those our three of our next five D-1 opponents. 

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9 hours ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

I agree. But what I'm saying is this isn't Bells fault. I think one of Yuri/ Jacobs needs to sit for Perkins/ Gibson in regards to the starting lineup. There needs to be a threat to have some spacing at the beginning of the game. I'd be shocked if Travis didn't mix it up next game. 

I think today was the most impressed I have been with Jacobs. Wasn't a scoring outburst but he looked in control of the offense while running the point and he also played some great individual defense from what I saw. He picked his spots nicely (something Yuri is still working on understandably). 

I'd go Jacobs, Jimmmerson, Goodwin, Has, Bell

I'm inclined to agree with you.  I just think we need more spacing / shooting in the lineup and inserting Jimerson does that whether you replace Collins or Bell.  I do like winning the tip and I do like having some essentially assigned time for Bell to play next to Has for a short amount of time.  IMO - Jacobs, Jimerson, Goodwin, Perkins, French is our best lineup (at least with Thatch less than 100%) and the lineup we will close out games with.  However, I like having Perkins scoring ability off the bench.

A couple of caveats:

  1. I think it depends on the match-up.  SIU played with only 1 true big (Benson) and he was very mobile and could play from outside.  At this point Bell can only be effective guarding a big who lives in the paint.  SIU was an awful match-up for Bell.
  2. I'd give Bell only a couple of minutes at the start of the game alongside French.  After that I'd essentially use him to spell French and not play them together.  If you look at the numbers French plays about 30 mpg and Bell plays 11 mpg.  You don't need much overlap to get them their minutes.  I know some folks speculate that playing them together limits foul trouble for French or somehow makes French more effective because he has a 4 on him instead of a 5.  I don't think there is any hard evidence that either of these is true.  In my opinion, they both play better apart.

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3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're starting at the game playing 4 on 5 on offense and then being rescued by herculean efforts by individual players.  I love to see herculean efforts but we don't have the offensive firepower for that model to be sustainable.  We can't afford to get down by 10 in the first five minutes at Auburn or Kansas State in Kansas City or on the road at Duquesne.  Those our three of our next five D-1 opponents. 

you want to put this all on Bell, and that is grossly unfair....against High Point, we had 3 Turnovers in the first 32 seconds, ball security and poor shot selection has been the biggest reason for our poor starts..i think the biggest reason, is some of the guys are too amped up to start a game....hopefully, this will improve, but some of the biggest offenders have been French and Goodwin at the start...

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I don't think giving JBell 5--10 mpg hurts us that much. Problem I see with him are his hands, i.e. Catching the ball and hanging on to rebounds. He's primarily in their to shield French from getting into early or late FT. 

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2 minutes ago, slu72 said:

I don't think giving JBell 5--10 mpg hurts us that much. Problem I see with him are his hands, i.e. Catching the ball and hanging on to rebounds. He's primarily in their to shield French from getting into early or late FT. 

let's not forget the worthless one dribble that typically is a junior high problem not D1 college.   bell does it most every time and it drives me crazy.  go the F up!  no dribble under the basket please.

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7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

let's not forget the worthless one dribble that typically is a junior high problem not D1 college.   bell does it most every time and it drives me crazy.  go the F up!  no dribble under the basket please.

I'm trying to recall, but didn't Conklin have this issue well into his Sophomore year? 

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6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

let's not forget the worthless one dribble that typically is a junior high problem not D1 college.   bell does it most every time and it drives me crazy.  go the F up!  no dribble under the basket please.

He brought the ball down yesterday to do it again but SIU swatted the ball out of his hands before he could do the "power" dribble.

The more he plays the less it will happen, but it is frustrating as hell to watch it happen.

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3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're starting at the game playing 4 on 5 on offense and then being rescued by herculean efforts by individual players.  I love to see herculean efforts but we don't have the offensive firepower for that model to be sustainable.  We can't afford to get down by 10 in the first five minutes at Auburn or Kansas State in Kansas City or on the road at Duquesne.  Those our three of our next five D-1 opponents. 

I don't agree with your 4 against 5 with Bell.    And there is a difference between getting off to a quick/good start and playing bad the whole first half.    Yes, we went down 0 to 10 -- not good.  But Bell played only 4 minutes - and as others pointed out, that was not all on Bell.   And after Bell came out of the game, the team continued to play poorly for the next 16 minutes without Bell on the Court - why?  Perkins and Jimerson came in and both hit 3 pointers and the score was 6 to 10 -- so the game was not lost after the first 5 minutes.   Thereafter, the score was 8 to 16 with under 10 minutes to go -- whose fault was that?  Anyway, at this point, Perkins took over the game and we were down 26 to 29 at halftime.  Now, if you told me that Goodwin and French would both have only 2 points at halftime and Thatch not play the game, I would take the score of 26-29 at halftime.  Did French and Goodwin play better in the second half?  Yes, but it was the play of Perkins and Jimerson which kept us in the game and which then gave us the lead in the second half - which we did not relinquish.

But if we go with your logic, then should Bell ever play?  Is is OK to play 4 vs 5 after the first 5 minutes of the game?  And would you say that we played 3 against 5 to start the game b/c Yuri didn't score, SIUC didn't even guard him and he caused turnovers?   Later, did we play 4 defense against 5 SIUC b/c Perkins let his man score?   

Just seeking clarification here.   Is it OK if Yuri runs the point and makes assists but does not score?   Seems like 4 vs 5?   Is it OK if Thatch shuts down the other team's best player but barely scores?   Is that OK and acceptable to play 4 vs 5?  Can Bell not win the tip, alter shots, rebound and take space up in the lane for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the game to send a message? and protect French from early fouls?   And that is not OK b/c he doesn't score?

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2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

I don't agree with your 4 against 5 with Bell.    And there is a difference between getting off to a quick/good start and playing bad the whole first half.    Yes, we went down 0 to 10 -- not good.  But Bell played only 4 minutes - and as others pointed out, that was not all on Bell.   And after Bell came out of the game, the team continued to play poorly for the next 16 minutes without Bell on the Court - why?  Perkins and Jimerson came in and both hit 3 pointers and the score was 6 to 10 -- so the game was not lost after the first 5 minutes.   Thereafter, the score was 8 to 16 with under 10 minutes to go -- whose fault was that?  Anyway, at this point, Perkins took over the game and we were down 26 to 29 at halftime.  Now, if you told me that Goodwin and French would both have only 2 points at halftime and Thatch not play the game, I would take the score of 26-29 at halftime.  Did French and Goodwin play better in the second half?  Yes, but it was the play of Perkins and Jimerson which kept us in the game and which then gave us the lead in the second half - which we did not relinquish.

But if we go with your logic, then should Bell ever play?  Is is OK to play 4 vs 5 after the first 5 minutes of the game?  And would you say that we played 3 against 5 to start the game b/c Yuri didn't score, SIUC didn't even guard him and he caused turnovers?   Later, did we play 4 defense against 5 SIUC b/c Perkins let his man score?   

Just seeking clarification here.   Is it OK if Yuri runs the point and makes assists but does not score?   Seems like 4 vs 5?   Is it OK if Thatch shuts down the other team's best player but barely scores?   Is that OK and acceptable to play 4 vs 5?  Can Bell not win the tip, alter shots, rebound and take space up in the lane for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the game to send a message? and protect French from early fouls?   And that is not OK b/c he doesn't score?

I've got to go to a meeting so I've only time to answer a few of your questions.

First bolded question: When Has is not in the game. They don't play well alongside each other. Not enough room to operate.

Second bolded question: Yuri's been sloppy with the ball. You'll get no argument from me there.

Third bolded question: Four on five? Perkins 14 first half points was the bulk of our offense in the first half. I shudder to think about the outcome of this game if he had just an average game. Playing him 37 min was overkill -- he had no legs in the final few minutes -- but that's on Ford.

Fourth bolded question: Yuri dropping dimes but not scoring is actually the baseline expectation. Anything you get above 4 ppg is a bonus.

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