brianstl Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 If the people at the top of the school and the people running the athletic department have determined nothing criminal has happened, no public action should have been took against the players until the school could comment on it. It is obvious that those people have made that determination because the players are practicing and traveling with the team. The school should have a responsibility to protect the young men as well as the young women that are in their charge. The only reason why anyone knows names to put with these allegations with zero facts to determine the veracity of the allegations is because of actions SLU took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: how about just letting us in on something. give us hope or give us a reason to believe there is a final solution quickly coming. the fact these kids are traveling with the team, still practicing, not expelled, not in jail tells us that there is no criminal investigation and it isnt a team rules thing. i.e. this is all on title iX. as clock said, sure its the rule, but it is very apparent it is a stupid rule considering the pain of this thing dragging out Why 60 days? why in the world would this take 60 days? to investigate? interview players and girls. that takes 60 days? to review the evidence? i could read the tolkien books 4 or 5 times in 60 days. are those making the decision so stupid they cant read the interviews or watch the interview tapes and make a decision in 60 days? just put the fan base out of the misery of waiting if you have to error on the side of safe, then expel the kids and let's move on. i agree the players made bad decisions. but that doesnt make it right at this point to continue to torture us fans. we think we finally have a light at the end of the tunnel and then this. come on slu do the right thing for the billiken fandom and make a decision. They can't because of the Title IX investigation. Unfortunately the fan base doesn't count. The investigation is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, brianstl said: If the people at the top of the school and the people running the athletic department have determined nothing criminal has happened, no public action should have been took against the players until the school could comment on it. It is obvious that those people have made that determination because the players are practicing and traveling with the team. The school should have a responsibility to protect the young men as well as the young women that are in their charge. The only reason why anyone knows names to put with these allegations with zero facts to determine the veracity of the allegations is because of actions SLU took. I agree that the absence of the players in game makes it appear that SLU has imposed sanctions on the players, but hasn't it been suggested that the fact that the players haven't been playing is the idea of their attorney? The idea would be to preserve their eligibility if they were to be punished by expulsion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, brianstl said: If the people at the top of the school and the people running the athletic department have determined nothing criminal has happened, no public action should have been took against the players until the school could comment on it. It is obvious that those people have made that determination because the players are practicing and traveling with the team. The school should have a responsibility to protect the young men as well as the young women that are in their charge. The only reason why anyone knows names to put with these allegations with zero facts to determine the veracity of the allegations is because of actions SLU took. They are protecting the young men, you just don't like the way they are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: I agree that the absence of the players in game makes it appear that SLU has imposed sanctions on the players, but hasn't it been suggested that the fact that the players haven't been playing is the idea of their attorney? The idea would be to preserve their eligibility if they were to be punished by expulsion. All of the players in question have already received a redshirt year so I think it's basically up to the NCAA on whether they are allowed another redshirt year if I understand correctly (which I might not understand it at all). The NCAA is more unpredictable than SLU's administration so I don't know what they'd do but I have a hard time seeing a player getting a second redshirt year to protect his eligibility after he was dismissed from school for sexual assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, Quality Is Job 1 said: I agree that the absence of the players in game makes it appear that SLU has imposed sanctions on the players, but hasn't it been suggested that the fact that the players haven't been playing is the idea of their attorney? The idea would be to preserve their eligibility if they were to be punished by expulsion. The players suspended can't preserve eligibility. They have five years for four seasons. The two being sat now have already used a redshirt. Six years require a special waiver and have only been granted when there is medical reasons causing the need for the second redshirt year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 21 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: They can't because of the Title IX investigation. Unfortunately the fan base doesn't count. The investigation is more important. so show the fan base that the investigation that is taking too much time has teeth. the fan base does count for the programs health and wellness. by all accounts we have satified the draconian time limit of the stupid title IX procedure make a GD decision. no one is arguing the importance of the investigation. give us some examples of why it takes this long. all most are asking is make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shempie Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 60 days is being thrown around a lot. In talking to a friend who has been involved in one of these incidents at another university, it was interpreted as 60 business days. Just one more possibility to throw into this uncertain brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_06 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, shempie said: 60 days is being thrown around a lot. In talking to a friend who has been involved in one of these incidents at another university, it was interpreted as 60 business days. Just one more possibility to throw into this uncertain brew. The slu sexual misconduct policy Pistol has posted that is effective July 1, 2017 states "within sixty (60) calendar days." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 17 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: I agree that the absence of the players in game makes it appear that SLU has imposed sanctions on the players, but hasn't it been suggested that the fact that the players haven't been playing is the idea of their attorney? The idea would be to preserve their eligibility if they were to be punished by expulsion. all three of the players in question have already used a redshirt season. they will not be granted additional time due to being investigated for sexual assault. the ncaa wouldnt touch that by any means. so there is no eligibility to perserve. they likely would have been better off career wise to be have been expelled day one and go play for a D2 team immediately. many star D2 players are playing for money after their college career ends. so again, no one is doing the players any favors eligibility wise imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 In a recent study by Harvard on Title IX investigations, they found the average case takes 3-4 months ( which is why the recent change to loosen up the 60 day rules.) The study showed the quickest cases were completed in 30 days and the longer ones took 6 months. Time variable was related to the complexity of the case. Many times the complexity related to number of people involved....ie more than 2. The wheels of justice turn at their own rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Just now, The Wiz said: In a recent study by Harvard on Title IX investigations, they found the average case takes 3-4 months ( which is why the recent change to loosen up the 60 day rules.) The study showed the quickest cases were completed in 30 days and the longer ones took 6 months. Time variable was related to the complexity of the case. Many times the complexity related to number of people involved....ie more than 2. The wheels of justice turn at their own rate. no disrespect. you obviously are just giving us facts. but for the life of me i just dont see it. if the people involved were missing or not cooperating that might add time to gather statements. but i just cant see why in our case this has to drag out. it is stupid. make a decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 A voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: no disrespect. you obviously are just giving us facts. but for the life of me i just dont see it. if the people involved were missing or not cooperating that might add time to gather statements. but i just cant see why in our case this has to drag out. it is stupid. make a decision Would you prefer they rush to judgement and the players be found guilty? Don't you want a thorough investigation? Again, assume they won't play at all. If they come back. Bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: no disrespect. you obviously are just giving us facts. but for the life of me i just dont see it. if the people involved were missing or not cooperating that might add time to gather statements. but i just cant see why in our case this has to drag out. it is stupid. make a decision Academic world has a nasty habit of complicating the most simple things. It might be even worse than government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenblue Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: no disrespect. you obviously are just giving us facts. but for the life of me i just dont see it. if the people involved were missing or not cooperating that might add time to gather statements. but i just cant see why in our case this has to drag out. it is stupid. make a decision Totally agree Roy. Or at the very least communicate something. I was close to Rick and the handling of a similar situation with Willie etc made him very angry to the point I thought he might leave the program. Travis may be going through the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Title IX overreach has nothing to do with the Wheels of Justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Ever seen Groundhog Day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Of the three players not playing (excluding Welmer, who's been injured), only one has used a redshirt. Henriquez used a redshirt while sitting out, as required, in 2016-17. Ty Graves has to sit out of competition for two semesters, but if he plays during the second semester this season, it will be his sophomore season, and he will still have his redshirt year in the bank. Jermaine Bishop was granted a medical hardship waiver for 2016-17, which (I presume) would grant him a sixth year to complete his four years of eligibility; I could be mistaken, but I believe he still has his redshirt year in the bank. Whatever the case, if the players were to play and then be expelled, it would cost them more eligibility than it would if they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: Would you prefer they rush to judgement and the players be found guilty? Don't you want a thorough investigation? Again, assume they won't play at all. If they come back. Bonus. "rush to judgement" you must think we are all idiots like apparently the title IX people think. again, lay out the scenario to explain the need for 60 days? which participant is not cooperating or is missing. beings the girls rushed to the police, i am sure they all made their statements pretty darn quickly. we know the players are cooperating. what other investigative information is needed beyond the statements of the participants? how long does it take to review said statements? be serious. this should not take 60 days and we are past 60 days. at this point in time for the good of the program, a decision is the most important thing. i really dont care anymore which way the decision goes. i am numb to the process. you want to error on the side of caution expell the players lets move on and we got three scholarships to fill this coming year. good for the junior class of current high schoolers and we might have some renewed hope for the future. make a decision SLU_Nick likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: Of the three players not playing (excluding Welmer, who's been injured), only one has used a redshirt. Henriquez used a redshirt while sitting out, as required, in 2016-17. Ty Graves has to sit out of competition for two semesters, but if he plays during the second semester this season, it will be his sophomore season, and he will still have his redshirt year in the bank. Jermaine Bishop was granted a medical hardship waiver for 2016-17, which (I presume) would grant him a sixth year to complete his four years of eligibility; I could be mistaken, but I believe he still has his redshirt year in the bank. Whatever the case, if the players were to play and then be expelled, it would cost them more eligibility than it would if they didn't. these players will never get any of this missed time back. to believe such is naive imo. i dont really care. if they are "guilty" in the eyes of this so called committee whatever. just make a dam decision. we want it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: "rush to judgement" you must think we are all idiots like apparently the title IX people think. again, lay out the scenario to explain the need for 60 days? which participant is not cooperating or is missing. beings the girls rushed to the police, i am sure they all made their statements pretty darn quickly. we know the players are cooperating. what other investigative information is needed beyond the statements of the participants? how long does it take to review said statements? be serious. this should not take 60 days and we are past 60 days. at this point in time for the good of the program, a decision is the most important thing. i really dont care anymore which way the decision goes. i am numb to the process. you want to error on the side of caution expell the players lets move on and we got three scholarships to fill this coming year. good for the junior class of current high schoolers and we might have some renewed hope for the future. make a decision I suspect you won't like the answer, and I wish it weren't the case, but there are at least 4 sets of lawyers involved. Each step of the process is slowed by each of their individual issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: "rush to judgement" you must think we are all idiots like apparently the title IX people think. again, lay out the scenario to explain the need for 60 days? which participant is not cooperating or is missing. beings the girls rushed to the police, i am sure they all made their statements pretty darn quickly. we know the players are cooperating. what other investigative information is needed beyond the statements of the participants? how long does it take to review said statements? be serious. this should not take 60 days and we are past 60 days. at this point in time for the good of the program, a decision is the most important thing. i really dont care anymore which way the decision goes. i am numb to the process. you want to error on the side of caution expell the players lets move on and we got three scholarships to fill this coming year. good for the junior class of current high schoolers and we might have some renewed hope for the future. make a decision Does the Duke lacrosse team ring a bell? The program is NOT important. What is important is that investigators get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, slu72 fan said: I suspect you won't like the answer, and I wish it weren't the case, but there are at least 4 sets of lawyers involved. Each step of the process is slowed by each of their individual issues. see trollboy tilk. now that was an answer. you on the other hand are worthless. and sorry the program is important to most true fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravilst Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 What I don't understand is the notion that the players are allowed to participate in all basketball/team/college activities, except for games. They are under investigation....but isn't banning them from games punishment before being found guilty of doing something wrong? Hypothetically if the results of the investigation yield no wrong doing, you just punished 2 players (graves wouldnt count since he has to sit anyway) for no reason.....or according to some because it would "look bad" if they were allowed to play and later found guilty of something. I don't see how it would look bad. The players are innocent until deemed otherwise by said investigation. How does it look bad that the players were not punished until the end of the investigation? So is sitting out just to keep a particular group happy? If thats the case then screw Dr. P AND the rest of the administration. 3star_recruit likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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