3star_recruit Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 The reason the kids got railroaded last time in the campus trial is because they didn't have a good lawyer. They've got one of the best right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prebilliken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 12 hours ago, billikenfan05 said: 18 year olds. Looking back at the cryptic I’d post on Facebook at 18 my god. So many Anberlin/Fall Out Boy lyrics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Instead of wasting your time parsing every word that a newscaster says in a 10 second clip just be content that if Frank said the charges were dropped he probably only means that no one will be charged by the DA. He is not a lawyer and he was probably under a time crunch so he just said the first thing that came to his mind that was kind of close. If the players had indeed been on a suspension of some type from the team and it has been lifted then I think it is fair to believe that that the DA is not following through with anything. This suspension would not be lifted unless the school had finished its independent investigation and have cleared the players plus they would have been told by the DA that nothing further is coming down the pike. That being said, I will wait for the official releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: The reason the kids got railroaded last time in the campus trial is because they didn't have a good lawyer. They've got one of the best right now. If I recall correctly, during Situation 1, the campus administration did not allow the accused to have outside representation (aside from a law student) but did allow the accuser to have a practicing attorney represent her. (Reading between the lines, it was fixed.) If there's a student review for this case of misconduct, how are we to know that the campus administration won't disallow the players' current representation, as they did six years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 there was never going to be any lengthy suspensions..."basketball is our window to the world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: If I recall correctly, during Situation 1, the campus administration did not allow the accused to have outside representation (aside from a law student) but did allow the accuser to have a practicing attorney represent her. (Reading between the lines, it was fixed.) If there's a student review for this case of misconduct, how are we to know that the campus administration won't disallow the players' current representation, as they did six years ago? Required by title ix I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: If I recall correctly, during Situation 1, the campus administration did not allow the accused to have outside representation (aside from a law student) but did allow the accuser to have a practicing attorney represent her. (Reading between the lines, it was fixed.) If there's a student review for this case of misconduct, how are we to know that the campus administration won't disallow the players' current representation, as they did six years ago? I don't think Dr. P would allow Ford to lift the suspension from the team if more was to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, slufan13 said: Required by title ix I believe? Are you saying the Title IX says that the accused does not get to have a practicing lawyer to represent them but the accuser does - this makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said: If I recall correctly, during Situation 1, the campus administration did not allow the accused to have outside representation (aside from a law student) but did allow the accuser to have a practicing attorney represent her. (Reading between the lines, it was fixed.) If there's a student review for this case of misconduct, how are we to know that the campus administration won't disallow the players' current representation, as they did six years ago? Because Scott Rosenblum will have a press conference to announce that his clients are not being allowed representation and they are going to sue. 1 minute ago, slufan13 said: Required by title ix I believe? I believe that is part of the Obama era guidance that has been recently put down by the new sec of ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Are you saying the Title IX says that the accused does not get to have a practicing lawyer to represent them but the accuser does - this makes no sense. Honestly I don't know if campus rape allegations have anything to do with Title 9 anymore. This was an overt threat under the previous presidential administration that has been countermanded. Obviously the dust is still settling on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Honestly I don't know if campus rape allegations have anything to do with Title 9 anymore. This was an overt threat under the previous presidential administration that has been countermanded. Obviously the dust is still settling on this. I would be very surprised that any law would ever specifically say you can not have a lawyer represent you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Because Scott Rosenblum will have a press conference to announce that his clients are not being allowed representation and they are going to sue. Yep. Don't underestimate Rosenblum's PR skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, cheeseman said: I would be very surprised that any law would ever specifically say you can not have a lawyer represent you. The big deal is/was that you weren't allowed to question your accuser at all. Again I may be reading too much into the changes but I believe a lot of this "guidance" has been shelved. It's still up to the schools to change their process...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/new-ocr-title-ix-dear-colleague-letter-53182/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
615Billiken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Can the person who wrote that original text message sharing the names of the players get in any legal trouble? The accusations were seriously up, especially considering that they don't seem to match reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Under the old guidance schools get set their own rules on representation. That guidance is no longer in effect. What one side gets in a Title IX case the other side gets, too. In sexual assault cases, specifically, the accused is allowed to choose whoever they want as their representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, 615Billiken said: Can the person who wrote that original text message sharing the names of the players get in any legal trouble? The accusations were seriously up, especially considering that they don't seem to match reality. If libel on social media were able to be litigated, we would no longer have a civil courts system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, 615Billiken said: Can the person who wrote that original text message sharing the names of the players get in any legal trouble? The accusations were seriously up, especially considering that they don't seem to match reality. Even if they could, doubt the U would pursue as they'd like it over and out of the news as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
615Billiken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 45 minutes ago, bonwich said: If libel on social media were able to be litigated, we would no longer have a civil courts system. 29 minutes ago, Littlebill said: Even if they could, doubt the U would pursue as they'd like it over and out of the news as soon as possible. There has to be some distinction between run of the mill talking crap on social media and making assumptions and directly blaming people for a horrific crime, telling others to beware. If I was one of the players I would sue. Of course, I would never want to be in their position, and it is much easier to play armchair quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said: The reason the kids got railroaded last time in the campus trial is because they didn't have a good lawyer. They've got one of the best right now. Nope they do not, they got the lawyers they got because some high person in the SLU board of trustees was their friend. I am sure this friendship gesture may become an unfriendly act if the same lawyers turn against SLU. I think they can get as good a defense as can be imagined if this thing goes to court. If it comes to disciplinary action against the players by SLU the scenario may change radically. After all the SLU thing is not a court of law, it is merely a disciplinary board ruling on the school's rules of conduct. No lawyer representation is required for this, indeed it seems to me that you may have little say in the proceedings. Of course 615, anybody can sue anybody else in this fracas but it would only bring another layer of legalese and costly court procedure to this mess. It is one thing to be a promising NBA player with a high salary like Willie claiming he has been ruined by something or the other and suing for damages. This is very different from being a highly ranked high school student who has not yet played his first competitive game in college claiming this mess ruined his supposedly assured NBA career and suing for damages for the supposed salary that he supposedly would have made if he had supposedly been inducted to the NBA, eventually. These kids have no career or salary that can be used to claim for damages against injury to their future income. They can sue for slander and damage to their reputation of course, but awards for slander are generally difficult to obtain and may not amount to much in terms of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, 615Billiken said: There has to be some distinction between run of the mill talking crap on social media and making assumptions and directly blaming people for a horrific crime, telling others to beware. If I was one of the players I would sue. Of course, I would never want to be in their position, and it is much easier to play armchair quarterback. I am no lawyer but I would not expect you to win that lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
615Billiken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, NH said: I am no lawyer but I would not expect you to win that lawsuit. You're right. I just think its infuriating that someone can make such claims about others with out any sort of consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, 615Billiken said: There has to be some distinction between run of the mill talking crap on social media and making assumptions and directly blaming people for a horrific crime, telling others to beware. If I was one of the players I would sue. Of course, I would never want to be in their position, and it is much easier to play armchair quarterback. They might be able to sue, but it doesn't mean they'd prevail at trial. I didn't study libel or slander in law school, but it might be difficult to prove the required elements based on a social media post. The other thing to consider is what damages would/should they be entitled to? How do you quantify that? Even if you could, what makes you think that a college student could pay off a judgment? All in all, probably not a worthwhile endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said: They might be able to sue, but it doesn't mean they'd prevail at trial. I didn't study libel or slander in law school, but it might be difficult to prove the required elements based on a social media post. The other thing to consider is what damages would/should they be entitled to? How do you quantify that? Even if you could, what makes you think that a college student could pay off a judgment? All in all, probably not a worthwhile endeavor. I think the big thing if you are one of the accused is to keep your name unattached to a false sexual assault allegation. Right now the allegations don't show up when you do a google search of the their names. I am sure the accused and their lawyers want to keep it that way. If you sue those who made the false allegations that changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, brianstl said: I think the big thing if you are one of the accused is to keep your name unattached to a false sexual assault allegation. Right now the allegations don't show up when you do a google search of the their names. I am sure the accused and their lawyers want to keep it that way. If you sue those who made the false allegations that changes. True. That's more valuable than whatever likely small amount you could squeeze out of a college student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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