Does Anyone Remember Once Upon A Time?

[Tonka]

Footes may have had some head issues but he was a great guy with the other students. He lived a couple doors down from me in the dorms and he was a really funny guy. One night he hooked up with an obnoxious white girl and for the next week he avoided this girl at all costs and she would come over looking for him nonstop. He hid in our room once and said she was the craziest chick at SLU.

Tadysak was dating one of my teacher's at SLU - Ms. Schmick. They were always seen together all over campus and supplying tons of PDA in the quad and it was just nasty and sloppy to have to witness.

[willie]

Yes Morris was supposed to be an NBA talent,but I agree those were pretty good numbers. I can't remember details but I think his senior year had issues.

[TheOldie]

Yes Morris was supposed to be an NBA talent,but I agree those were pretty good numbers. I can't remember details but I think his senior year had issues.

Believe that he had a scuffle with a teammate during practice

[cheeseman]

I know Footes had a lots of talent but to some extent his impact at SLU which has become legendary in some minds was not big at all - I just perused the leaders in the Billiken's record listings and I did not see Footes name anywhere - did I miss something?

[billiken_roy]

When talking about billikens that came from jucos, it's david burns then the rest. It sucked he had horrible talent and coaching around him, but he was something to watch. Just a rocket. Opponents couldnt stop him.

[Taj79]

Burden, like Newberry, only played three years for the Bills so I'm guessing he spent one year somewhere out of Beaumont HS before enrolling. So I'm guessing yes, he was a JUCO. Lockette, Morris and Martinez were before my time. Shave was a freshman with me but he is not listed as having played any his sophomore year of 1976-77. That was the year I fully began undivided support of the Bills. I don't recall what that was about.

My recollection of a "Bill M." was Billy Moulder, a six-foot point guard who was pretty bad as I recall. Of course, he was on some really bad teams from 1973 - 1977.

Outside of Jim Roder (K State), H Waldman (UNLV) and Reggie Bryant (Villanova) even the guys that transferred back or into were somewhat mixed: Ted Mimlitz (Mizzou), Todd Starks (Illinois State), Evan Pederson (Northwestern), Jamal Johnson (Miami of Florida), PeeWee Lenard (Georgia), Adam Knollmeyer (Mizzou) and Justin Johnson (K State) come to mind. Here's hoping Lancona (Washington State) and Ash Yacoubou (Villanova) are up there with the first two. Grandy is in this group for me as well (UNLV).

[willie]

I wouldn't call Jamal Johnson's play mixed.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Believe that he had a scuffle with a teammate during practice

That was one of the incidents that did in Coach Polk. Actually not a bad coach, compared to the 3 (short lived) coaches that proceeded him, he was like John Wooden.

Morris came as a transfer from Illinois. He was a year too late to play on that outstanding '72-3 team which was made up of Harry Rogers (maybe next to the Legend was one of SLU's best players in my time), Jesse Leonard (the one they called 'the Ghost'), Bill Paradowski, & Mark Frailey ( a scrappy Eastside point guard that had a nice outside touch-too bad he did not have 3pt line back then). That teams' only weakness was at center, Morris could have made that difference.

[Bay Area Billiken]

When talking about billikens that came from jucos, it's david burns then the rest. It sucked he had horrible talent and coaching around him, but he was something to watch. Just a rocket. Opponents couldnt stop him.

IMO, David Burns is the best SLU JUCO on this list, with the caveat that I really began following SLU Basketball closely in 1978, hence after Billy Morris, etc. played for SLU. Burns was from Dallas and played for Ekker, who himself came to SLU from the then West Texas State in Canyon, TX. Burns was lightning quick and had a nice elevating type mid-range jump shot. He scored a lot of points on drives to the hoop. At the time, it seemed that SLU's best offense was the North Carolina Four Corners, with Burns manning the 1, the point. No one could guard him. And he played at SLU when SLU was in the powerful Metro Conference with Louisville, Memphis State, Cincinnati, Florida State, and Virginia Tech, with Tulane completing the list.

Kelvin Henderson was a very good 6'7" Center, another JUCO from the then Forest Park CC, and a year ahead of David Burns. When he scored, then SLU P.A. Announcer Bill McDermott would pronounce his name: "Calvin Henderson."

My recollection is Craig Shaver was not a JUCO. He was a 6-4"- 6'5" forward from Louisville, KY. He would have great starts to games, be Dr. J for the first 5 minutes, but then came the rest of the game ...

[Bay Area Billiken]

Those names sure bring back memories.

Carvin Norman and Quitman Dillard (brother of DePaul's Skip Dillard) were good JUCO players for Coach Grawer.

Luther Burden and his sidekick, Georgia transfer PeeWee Lenard, once led a near miss upset of Notre Dame in South Bend. Digger Phelps was incensed about, "If St. Louis wants to come in here and hold the ball." Whether coincidental or not, ND has not played SLU in either St. Louis or South Bend since. The only meetings have been that gerrymandered NIT game transferred at the 11th hour to Ft. Wayne, Indiana, and the game under Coach Majerus in Chicago. Notre Dame hasn't played SLU in St. Louis since the early 1970's.

[bonwich]

My recollection of a "Bill M." was Billy Moulder, a six-foot point guard who was pretty bad as I recall. Of course, he was on some really bad teams from 1973 - 1977.

Now, Taj, you remember Billy. He worked in the athletic office circa '78-9 with Nancy McElroy (who I just ran into a few months ago) and Dick O'Connor. He also still goes to all the games -- and I wouldn't be surprised if he's on this board somewhere.

[willie]

Craig Shaver did come in as a freshman from Louisville. Played at Shawnee high school. Same high school that produced Tom Payne, first African American to play for UK.

[cheeseman]

Burden, like Newberry, only played three years for the Bills so I'm guessing he spent one year somewhere out of Beaumont HS before enrolling. So I'm guessing yes, he was a JUCO. Lockette, Morris and Martinez were before my time. Shave was a freshman with me but he is not listed as having played any his sophomore year of 1976-77. That was the year I fully began undivided support of the Bills. I don't recall what that was about.

My recollection of a "Bill M." was Billy Moulder, a six-foot point guard who was pretty bad as I recall. Of course, he was on some really bad teams from 1973 - 1977.

Outside of Jim Roder (K State), H Waldman (UNLV) and Reggie Bryant (Villanova) even the guys that transferred back or into were somewhat mixed: Ted Mimlitz (Mizzou), Todd Starks (Illinois State), Evan Pederson (Northwestern), Jamal Johnson (Miami of Florida), PeeWee Lenard (Georgia), Adam Knollmeyer (Mizzou) and Justin Johnson (K State) come to mind. Here's hoping Lancona (Washington State) and Ash Yacoubou (Villanova) are up there with the first two. Grandy is in this group for me as well (UNLV).

Lancona never was enrolled at WSU nor was Glaze ever enrolled at UNLV therefore they can not be considered transfers. Knollmeyer also was never enrolled at MO nor was Justin Johnson enrolled at KSU so they also can not be considered transfers to SLU.

[cheeseman]

When talking about billikens that came from jucos, it's david burns then the rest. It sucked he had horrible talent and coaching around him, but he was something to watch. Just a rocket. Opponents couldnt stop him.

+1

[West Pine Jim]

Craig Shaver did come in as a freshman from Louisville. Played at Shawnee high school. Same high school that produced Tom Payne, first African American to play for UK.

I was hoping that Joe B. Hall would bring Payne to SLU. We got bamboozled.

[willie]

You know Jim that 99% of this board doesn't know that Joe B was once coach of the Bill's.

[thetorch]

You know Jim that 99% of this board doesn't know that Joe B was once coach of the Bill's.

And 98% don't know who Joe B. Hall was.

[Taj79]

I know Johnson and Knollmeyer didn't really ever play for those schools and I'm lumping Lancona in there as well. Thi smight all be somewhat unfair and maybe having it thrown out as inadmissable is okay.

My rationale was this and it may be misplaced: I certainly have a problem with truly understanding the inexact science of recruiting and that problem has been well documented. My thinking is somewhat guided by the "boy, if so-and-so U is after so-and-so recruit, he must be pretty good." Likely a flawed way of thinking but there nonetheless. So when I see we nabbed Grandy after he decommitted from UNLV or Johnson decommitted from K State, I know I thought "FANTASTIC!" No one can argue against Justin Johnson being a bust. Now we've nabbed Lancona after he decommitted from Wazzu.

I guess its just another accounting procedure for me. I have to admit that I have (and have had) higher expectations on these decommits than some other, let's call them regular, freshmen. But that's just me.

[drkelsey55]

I know Johnson and Knollmeyer didn't really ever play for those schools and I'm lumping Lancona in there as well. Thi smight all be somewhat unfair and maybe having it thrown out as inadmissable is okay.

My rationale was this and it may be misplaced: I certainly have a problem with truly understanding the inexact science of recruiting and that problem has been well documented. My thinking is somewhat guided by the "boy, if so-and-so U is after so-and-so recruit, he must be pretty good." Likely a flawed way of thinking but there nonetheless. So when I see we nabbed Grandy after he decommitted from UNLV or Johnson decommitted from K State, I know I thought "FANTASTIC!" No one can argue against Justin Johnson being a bust. Now we've nabbed Lancona after he decommitted from Wazzu.

I guess its just another accounting procedure for me. I have to admit that I have (and have had) higher expectations on these decommits than some other, let's call them regular, freshmen. But that's just me.

I thought Wazzu withdrew their offer to Lancona.

[Billikenboy]

That is what I remembered as well that Wazzu pulled their offer and SLU was there to scoop him up.

[RUBillsFan]

I thought Wazzu withdrew their offer to Lancona.

Lacona was committed and signed a LOI at Wazzu. Then Wazzu basically told him they didn't want him anymore because they were moving in a different direction and needed his scholly for a JUCO PG. Lancona could have screwed them and played his freshman year for them because he signed the LOI, but he decided to leave, was released from the LOI and re-opened his recruitment.

[kshoe]

I know Johnson and Knollmeyer didn't really ever play for those schools and I'm lumping Lancona in there as well. Thi smight all be somewhat unfair and maybe having it thrown out as inadmissable is okay.

My rationale was this and it may be misplaced: I certainly have a problem with truly understanding the inexact science of recruiting and that problem has been well documented. My thinking is somewhat guided by the "boy, if so-and-so U is after so-and-so recruit, he must be pretty good." Likely a flawed way of thinking but there nonetheless. So when I see we nabbed Grandy after he decommitted from UNLV or Johnson decommitted from K State, I know I thought "FANTASTIC!" No one can argue against Justin Johnson being a bust. Now we've nabbed Lancona after he decommitted from Wazzu.

I guess its just another accounting procedure for me. I have to admit that I have (and have had) higher expectations on these decommits than some other, let's call them regular, freshmen. But that's just me.

Taj,

A tip going forward. I can't remember us ever "stealing" a recruit from a BCS caliber program that a player had already committed too. Thus, all those players you mentioned were more accurately "dropped" from the BCS caliber program and thus you probably should have not had such high expectations for them.

Likewise, actual transfers that come from BCS caliber programs likely aren't doing so because they are putting up 15 points a game and just really want to play at SLU. They are doing so because something didn't quite go right at their current school and they need a change of scenery.

Its all about managing expectations. I'm surprised yours are so out of whack with these players.

[bauman]

Taj,

A tip going forward. I can't remember us ever "stealing" a recruit from a BCS caliber program that a player had already committed too. Thus, all those players you mentioned were more accurately "dropped" from the BCS caliber program and thus you probably should have not had such high expectations for them.

Likewise, actual transfers that come from BCS caliber programs likely aren't doing so because they are putting up 15 points a game and just really want to play at SLU. They are doing so because something didn't quite go right at their current school and they need a change of scenery.

Its all about managing expectations. I'm surprised yours are so out of whack with these players.

I think there was one BCS recruit who we might have stolen, but that was a long time ago. My recollection is that Monroe Douglass committed to Oklahoma and then we convinced him to stay home and play for SLU. I still think us offering Roland Gray was used as an incentive to get MD to drop his OKL verbal and sign with us.

[Taj79]

Thanks for all the input. I'm just trying to explain my expectations and I admit mine tend to go higher when we "get" a player from another program along the decommit lines. I'm like "wow, he turned down/reneged on UNLV/KState for us."

I am somewhat leery of the player we "get" along transfer lines; likely because we get so few. Reggie was a great "get" and I'm hoping Ash follows suite as well. But my expectations for Reggie were really kind of low in hindsight. My expectations of H Waldman were also low. But that was a different time and age. I expected more from Jamal Johnson, more from Evan Pedersen. No rhyme nor reason for it really.

JUCOs I don't trust at all. I was hard-pressed to name 10 good ones over 39 years of involvement. That's a good-one-in-every-four-years ratio. Most are mediocre or below and that's my history so that's my perception.

I agree with kshoe -- I can't recall us "stealing" anybody ever. But "dropped" or not, I just expect more from them due to their drawing enough interest to get a BCS offer. Your point is well-taken, so I'll work on that. Thanks. Out of whack? Interesting. Okay, I'll take that --- but I've seen folks getting excited over a "newcomers" video on this board. Rating these kids is tough ---- but I happen to believe who is offering you would seem to be a good partial indicator. Of course, if the input on Verbal Commits is just given by the kids themselves, then that is a suspect evaluation scheme as well.

Right now, my expectations for Robey are low; for Gillmann, even lower; for Ash, equal to or better than Reggie. On the flip side, the current threesome of signed recruits makes me expect more from each of them.

[Taj79]

Oklahoma baumann? Really? I thought it was between us and Mizzou and Douglas and Gray were a pacakge deal all along. I do not recall Douglas decomitting but it wasn't covered as much back then as it is now.