Does Anyone Remember Once Upon A Time?

[bauman]

Thanks for all the input. I'm just trying to explain my expectations and I admit mine tend to go higher when we "get" a player from another program along the decommit lines. I'm like "wow, he turned down/reneged on UNLV/KState for us."

I am somewhat leery of the player we "get" along transfer lines; likely because we get so few. Reggie was a great "get" and I'm hoping Ash follows suite as well. But my expectations for Reggie were really kind of low in hindsight. My expectations of H Waldman were also low. But that was a different time and age. I expected more from Jamal Johnson, more from Evan Pedersen. No rhyme nor reason for it really.

JUCOs I don't trust at all. I was hard-pressed to name 10 good ones over 39 years of involvement. That's a good-one-in-every-four-years ratio. Most are mediocre or below and that's my history so that's my perception.

I agree with kshoe -- I can't recall us "stealing" anybody ever. But "dropped" or not, I just expect more from them due to their drawing enough interest to get a BCS offer. Your point is well-taken, so I'll work on that. Thanks. Out of whack? Interesting. Okay, I'll take that --- but I've seen folks getting excited over a "newcomers" video on this board. Rating these kids is tough ---- but I happen to believe who is offering you would seem to be a good partial indicator. Of course, if the input on Verbal Commits is just given by the kids themselves, then that is a suspect evaluation scheme as well.

Right now, my expectations for Robey are low; for Gillmann, even lower; for Ash, equal to or better than Reggie. On the flip side, the current threesome of signed recruits makes me expect more from each of them.

Taj, with regard to your last paragraph, I couldn't agree more. I am with you on your expectations for all six players.

[Taj79]

Quick baumann ... get out of this "whacked" section .. lest it be too late and you are damned!

[kshoe]

Right now, my expectations for Robey are low; for Gillmann, even lower; for Ash, equal to or better than Reggie. On the flip side, the current threesome of signed recruits makes me expect more from each of them.

Since you don't project/predict but you do have expectations I'm hoping you can expand on why you feel the way you do about Robey and Ash.

Robey had offers at one point from most of the SEC (how many still existed when he committed to SLU, who knows) yet you have low expectations for him. Interesting.

As for Ash you compare him to Reggie, presumably because they both transferred from Villanova. Reggie average 9.1 points per game his sophomore year whereas Ash average 2.9 PPG. Not sure why you expect more from Ash than Reggie.

I can certainly understand why you have low expectations for Gillman and high expectations for the other 3 but those two jumped out at me.

[Billikenswin]

Thanks for all the input. I'm just trying to explain my expectations and I admit mine tend to go higher when we "get" a player from another program along the decommit lines. I'm like "wow, he turned down/reneged on UNLV/KState for us."

I am somewhat leery of the player we "get" along transfer lines; likely because we get so few. Reggie was a great "get" and I'm hoping Ash follows suite as well. But my expectations for Reggie were really kind of low in hindsight. My expectations of H Waldman were also low. But that was a different time and age. I expected more from Jamal Johnson, more from Evan Pedersen. No rhyme nor reason for it really.

JUCOs I don't trust at all. I was hard-pressed to name 10 good ones over 39 years of involvement. That's a good-one-in-every-four-years ratio. Most are mediocre or below and that's my history so that's my perception.

I agree with kshoe -- I can't recall us "stealing" anybody ever. But "dropped" or not, I just expect more from them due to their drawing enough interest to get a BCS offer. Your point is well-taken, so I'll work on that. Thanks. Out of whack? Interesting. Okay, I'll take that --- but I've seen folks getting excited over a "newcomers" video on this board. Rating these kids is tough ---- but I happen to believe who is offering you would seem to be a good partial indicator. Of course, if the input on Verbal Commits is just given by the kids themselves, then that is a suspect evaluation scheme as well.

Right now, my expectations for Robey are low; for Gillmann, even lower; for Ash, equal to or better than Reggie. On the flip side, the current threesome of signed recruits makes me expect more from each of them.

Because this is merely a statement of personal expectations, I guess everyone has their opinion but I am not sure why you would not have at least as high expectations for the young man from Memphis as any of our current freshmen. I know the staff was extremely happy when they received that commitment and I have heard from sources in Memphis unrelated to the program--people who are not Bills fans--that he is a player and we snagged a really fine athletic guard.

[biglock7071]

Interesting topic.

I'd go like this

#1 Burns - Last Billiken named Conference POY.

#2 Henderson - Named Metro 1st team all conference twice.

#3 Dobbs - GMC newcomer of the year first season, all conference 2nd team sr year

#4 Love - 1st team All CUSA, best player on the miracle at memphis run

#5 Burden - All MCC his jr year.

#6 Jeffers - 2nd team CUSA

#7 Dillard - Best player on a couple bad teams.

#8 Newberry - Lead guard for Bonner's best seasons

#9 Norman - Forgot about him till Taj mentioned him. rebounder, defender, scorer on two crappy teams, Burden's final squad and Gray and Douglas' first

#10 Nobody else I can recall were team leaders more role players like Eberhart, Newbourne, Brown, Fergerson, Turner, Craig, Frericks, Al-Matiin, Tony Manuel, David Robinson, & Donnie Campbell. These guys were all about the same, bench guys, occasional starters, maybe good at one thing or in cases like Eberhart had one great game, or in Newborne's case none. All other JUCO players were pretty much bums. On second thought scratch Newborne, he belongs with the bums.

Was Mike Lockette, Bill Morris, Craig Shaver, or Carlos Martinez a JUCo? Before my time, also Kevin Footes? Was he a JUCO? If Footes was he is #9 or #10.

I don't know if I block this out or what but I always think Larry Simmons was a JUCO. Then I see he played here for 4 years riding the pine, taking up a scholarship. What a nightmare.

Mike Lockette was a Jr. college player, but Carlos Martinez was a 4 year Billiken from St. Pat in Chicago, Bill Morris played two years here. I am Mike Lockette and coming into a D1 program from Jr. college is a culture shock. If you can imagine playing Meramec or Forest Park Jr. college being the best teams you were going to face to the next season you will playing the likes of Marquette- Notre Dame - UCLA - Michicgan - Missouri - or a situation were you were brought to fill an imediate need and have to hit the ground running because next year you are a Senior and you fell short your junior year it is on to the next class. I remember my first day at pratice, 2 Jr. College player were sent to the dorm because they were not going to play. they let them keep there scholarshp, but were off the team. Of course the same thing happened to 2 four players that year. I was brought in to providing rebounding help and I can remember my best scoring game scoring 26 points and the next game playing Illinois making my first 4 shots and being benched because " that was not I was there for".

[Cowboy]

Mike Lockette was a Jr. college player, but Carlos Martinez was a 4 year Billiken from St. Pat in Chicago, Bill Morris played two years here. I am Mike Lockette and coming into a D1 program from Jr. college is a culture shock. If you can imagine playing Meramec or Forest Park Jr. college being the best teams you were going to face to the next season you will playing the likes of Marquette- Notre Dame - UCLA - Michicgan - Missouri - or a situation were you were brought to fill an imediate need and have to hit the ground running because next year you are a Senior and you fell short your junior year it is on to the next class. I remember my first day at pratice, 2 Jr. College player were sent to the dorm because they were not going to play. they let them keep there scholarshp, but were off the team. Of course the same thing happened to 2 four players that year. I was brought in to providing rebounding help and I can remember my best scoring game scoring 26 points and the next game playing Illinois making my first 4 shots and being benched because " that was not I was there for".

-welcome to the Board

[bonwich]

Mike Lockette was a Jr. college player, but Carlos Martinez was a 4 year Billiken from St. Pat in Chicago, Bill Morris played two years here. I am Mike Lockette and coming into a D1 program from Jr. college is a culture shock. If you can imagine playing Meramec or Forest Park Jr. college being the best teams you were going to face to the next season you will playing the likes of Marquette- Notre Dame - UCLA - Michicgan - Missouri - or a situation were you were brought to fill an imediate need and have to hit the ground running because next year you are a Senior and you fell short your junior year it is on to the next class. I remember my first day at pratice, 2 Jr. College player were sent to the dorm because they were not going to play. they let them keep there scholarshp, but were off the team. Of course the same thing happened to 2 four players that year. I was brought in to providing rebounding help and I can remember my best scoring game scoring 26 points and the next game playing Illinois making my first 4 shots and being benched because " that was not I was there for".

Welcome, Mike! Your daughter and my daughter were friends during their freshman year, owing to both of them being big basketball fans.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Mike Lockette was a Jr. college player, but Carlos Martinez was a 4 year Billiken from St. Pat in Chicago, Bill Morris played two years here. I am Mike Lockette and coming into a D1 program from Jr. college is a culture shock. If you can imagine playing Meramec or Forest Park Jr. college being the best teams you were going to face to the next season you will playing the likes of Marquette- Notre Dame - UCLA - Michicgan - Missouri - or a situation were you were brought to fill an imediate need and have to hit the ground running because next year you are a Senior and you fell short your junior year it is on to the next class. I remember my first day at pratice, 2 Jr. College player were sent to the dorm because they were not going to play. they let them keep there scholarshp, but were off the team. Of course the same thing happened to 2 four players that year. I was brought in to providing rebounding help and I can remember my best scoring game scoring 26 points and the next game playing Illinois making my first 4 shots and being benched because " that was not I was there for".

Mike good to have you on board. I was a big fan of yours during my student days at SLU. You, Rogers, Stallworth, Martinez, Irving, & Leonard made that 70-1 season so special. I still cry about that close play-off game against Louisville. Again, good to have you here.

[West Pine Jim]

Mike good to have you on board. I was a big fan of yours during my student days at SLU. You, Rogers, Stallworth, Martinez, Irving, & Leonard made that 70-1 season so special. I still cry about that close play-off game against Louisville. Again, good to have you here.

+1

[cheeseman]

I know Johnson and Knollmeyer didn't really ever play for those schools and I'm lumping Lancona in there as well. Thi smight all be somewhat unfair and maybe having it thrown out as inadmissable is okay.

My rationale was this and it may be misplaced: I certainly have a problem with truly understanding the inexact science of recruiting and that problem has been well documented. My thinking is somewhat guided by the "boy, if so-and-so U is after so-and-so recruit, he must be pretty good." Likely a flawed way of thinking but there nonetheless. So when I see we nabbed Grandy after he decommitted from UNLV or Johnson decommitted from K State, I know I thought "FANTASTIC!" No one can argue against Justin Johnson being a bust. Now we've nabbed Lancona after he decommitted from Wazzu.

I guess its just another accounting procedure for me. I have to admit that I have (and have had) higher expectations on these decommits than some other, let's call them regular, freshmen. But that's just me.

The problem is that none of them decommited the schools withdrew the schollie before the kid could enroll. Yes they were once recruited by these schools but the schools decided that they did not fit for whatever the reason and dumped the kid. Not sure what you are suppose to take from that other than the kid did not turn out to be as good as they thought - at least in their minds. Also, when a kid commits to a school he can change his mind anytime he wants prior to signing a LOI. Once the LOI is signed the kid is stuck unless he can get his release from the school but the school can simply withhold the schollie and then the LOI becomes invalid. If a kid says no I want to come anyway then it is on his dime and as a walk on - at least that is how I understand the situation. None of the kids - Lacona, Johnson, Knollmeyer, Glaze wanted out they were just dumped.

[thetorch]

Mike Lockette was a Jr. college player, but Carlos Martinez was a 4 year Billiken from St. Pat in Chicago, Bill Morris played two years here. I am Mike Lockette and coming into a D1 program from Jr. college is a culture shock. If you can imagine playing Meramec or Forest Park Jr. college being the best teams you were going to face to the next season you will playing the likes of Marquette- Notre Dame - UCLA - Michicgan - Missouri - or a situation were you were brought to fill an imediate need and have to hit the ground running because next year you are a Senior and you fell short your junior year it is on to the next class. I remember my first day at pratice, 2 Jr. College player were sent to the dorm because they were not going to play. they let them keep there scholarshp, but were off the team. Of course the same thing happened to 2 four players that year. I was brought in to providing rebounding help and I can remember my best scoring game scoring 26 points and the next game playing Illinois making my first 4 shots and being benched because " that was not I was there for".

Great to have you on the board Mike. Never saw you play but my father believes you are one of the best rebounders to wear a Billiken uniform.

[Taj79]

Welcome aboard, Mike.

@cheeseman -- there's no "problem" here. Whether or not they formally decommited, were let go, changed their mind before the signed LOI or whatever, it is all immaterial to me in the overall discussion. Maybe they didn't even have a real offer and it was the kid saying to HoopsNation or DaveTellup or even on a Tweet --- "I'm going to blank (Disney World)!" Because, frankly, we don't really know what the story is, do we?

All I'm saying is that if ... and it's a big IF I guess .... they have this alternate offer, from a big name school, I, Taj79, tend to put more belief into the still unproven fact that they must be pretty decent. Getting one of these kids from them to us -- no matter what the irrelevant reason --- says more to me than getting a Bryce Husak from Elon. It's a twisting of the "guilt by association" theme --- I am associating a more talented player from the offers he had/has. And I'm admitting that reasoning might be invalid. That is all.

But all that comes into play when I sit here, uninformed, trying to figure out just how good we got in the recruiting class. We never really know until they get out there and play. Its the unknown of signing that so-called star from Australia --- sometimes it turns into Cody Ellis. Sometimes it Andrew Latimore. I am with the group that is saying "sign Bartley" this wekeend. Sounds good but all I'm doing is following the crowd --- I have no idea if Bartley is the next Kwamian Mitchell or the next Jeremy Biles. I tend to think that if more big dawgs are chasing someone, the better they are and will be.

But it is still a crapshoot and I wouldn't want to have my living depend on 18-year-olds.

In terms of overall recruiting, I do the same. I can look up JP Macura for example, and see someone has given him some subjective star rating. I can see he's being recruited by all the big boy programs as well. One kid got an offer from High Point on the Verbal Commits lists. That don't impress me as much as a kid getting offers from Purdue, Marquette, Boston College, and so on. I'm selling a "follow my lead' point, jsut explaining why my expectations are the way they are.

[kshoe]

Welcome aboard, Mike.

@cheeseman -- there's no "problem" here. Whether or not they formally decommited, were let go, changed their mind before the signed LOI or whatever, it is all immaterial to me in the overall discussion. Maybe they didn't even have a real offer and it was the kid saying to HoopsNation or DaveTellup or even on a Tweet --- "I'm going to blank (Disney World)!" Because, frankly, we don't really know what the story is, do we?

All I'm saying is that if ... and it's a big IF I guess .... they have this alternate offer, from a big name school, I, Taj79, tend to put more belief into the still unproven fact that they must be pretty decent. Getting one of these kids from them to us -- no matter what the irrelevant reason --- says more to me than getting a Bryce Husak from Elon. It's a twisting of the "guilt by association" theme --- I am associating a more talented player from the offers he had/has. And I'm admitting that reasoning might be invalid. That is all.

But all that comes into play when I sit here, uninformed, trying to figure out just how good we got in the recruiting class. We never really know until they get out there and play. Its the unknown of signing that so-called star from Australia --- sometimes it turns into Cody Ellis. Sometimes it Andrew Latimore. I am with the group that is saying "sign Bartley" this wekeend. Sounds good but all I'm doing is following the crowd --- I have no idea if Bartley is the next Kwamian Mitchell or the next Jeremy Biles. I tend to think that if more big dawgs are chasing someone, the better they are and will be.

But it is still a crapshoot and I wouldn't want to have my living depend on 18-year-olds.

In terms of overall recruiting, I do the same. I can look up JP Macura for example, and see someone has given him some subjective star rating. I can see he's being recruited by all the big boy programs as well. One kid got an offer from High Point on the Verbal Commits lists. That don't impress me as much as a kid getting offers from Purdue, Marquette, Boston College, and so on. I'm selling a "follow my lead' point, jsut explaining why my expectations are the way they are.

Taj,your first two paragraphs are really difficult for me to understand. In the second one, you clearly state that you put some credence into whether a player has an offer from a bigger school. That is great, and realistically I think most people would agree with you.

But in the first paragraph you say its immaterial as to whether a player "formally decommited, were let go, changed their mind before the signed LOI or whatever." How can you say that given that right after it you say that you think its more impressive to have an offer from a major school?

Are you suggesting that its immaterial for big school XYZ to drop a recruit and tell him he no longer has a scholly offer compared to the same school XYZ begging him to come and he just deciding to go somewhere else? Those two are the same situation? Of course they aren't! And its really not that difficult to decipher what happened in most of these situations. Justin Johnson was dropped. Adam Knollmeyer was dropped. Tanner Lancona was dropped (there are plenty of articles out there about this one if you need proof).

So I'm struggling as to why someone that puts enough thought into whether a given recruit will be good or not, can't do a little more digging into why big school XYZ and player ABC are no longer a perfect marriage.

[ACE]

The problem is that none of them decommited the schools withdrew the schollie before the kid could enroll. Yes they were once recruited by these schools but the schools decided that they did not fit for whatever the reason and dumped the kid. Not sure what you are suppose to take from that other than the kid did not turn out to be as good as they thought - at least in their minds. Also, when a kid commits to a school he can change his mind anytime he wants prior to signing a LOI. Once the LOI is signed the kid is stuck unless he can get his release from the school but the school can simply withhold the schollie and then the LOI becomes invalid. If a kid says no I want to come anyway then it is on his dime and as a walk on - at least that is how I understand the situation. None of the kids - Lacona, Johnson, Knollmeyer, Glaze wanted out they were just dumped.

I don't think that was the case with Grandy. He was not "dumped." From everything I read, he signed with UNLV and Lon Kruger. When the coach left in the spring, Glaze asked out of his LOI.

Here is the link - http://www.8newsnow.com/story/14495390/rebel-recruit-decommits

[Taj79]

@kshoe --- all I'm saying is that I am, rightly or wrongly, influenced into grading a recruit by who is chasing/offering him. What is immaterial is how the kid walked away from Offer #1. What influences me is the fact that he got Offer #1 and was going to Offer #1 but then begged off for whatever reason. The reason is immaterial, we got him, but that involvement, that "excess baggage" if you will of the Offer #1 makes me expect more because how could Offer #1 school be wrong? And we all know it can be but the fact that Offer #1 came in, it kind of lends thrid-party endorsement to the kid being "worthwhile/good/reallygood," if you will. With all the talent that has gone through UNLV, getting Grandy after he has said he was going there, gave rise to expectations of Larry Johnson, Stacey Augmon and Armond Gilliam plying the floor for SLU. And that's not our Grandy. Just yet.

Does that help? I don't care for the why of why the kid was dropped. Or why he dropped them. I feel justified because after it was all said and done another big school offered and that makes me think (initially) that this is a "good get." And, unfortunatley, this leads to higher expectations than may be reasonable but so it goes. And things swerve off course. For example -- in Rick I trusted. I felt that because it was Rick, every kid was a potential diamond-in-the-rough. Rick knew what he doing, who he was offering, right? I thought so. Did he fail? At times, sure, we all do. That's why some expectations never realize their initial proposed payouts. My expectations for Thompson in that first class were huge as were my expectations for Baniak, Heinrich and Tatum in the Legend's class. The funny thing on that class was my expectations on Hughes were low --- c'mon. A MickeyD All-American coming to SLU? How can that be? Obviously overrated. WRONG! Pleasantly wrong.

I am suggesting nothing -- just trying to explain my thought process, as muddied as it may be. We all can agree kids get recruited over. Coaches change. I'd offer that the school is really secondary to the coach but I;ve said that before. Put it this way -- if any of Kentucky's recruits decommitted and enrolled wiht us, we'd go nuts. We'd have no clue who Joe Bemdiji is, but we'd all be sky high because well, it's KENTUCKY man!

I must've missed your question about Robey and Gillmann in post #53. My apologies.

My expectations for Robey are low because he kind of came out of nowhere. I recall him not on any list and then --- BAM! -- he verbally commits. Call it unfair if you like but that's the way it goes. As for him having offers from all SEC teams, I don't recall seeing much of that so it wasn't factored in. Seriously, he came from nowhere straight to committing and I would say I had no time to foment expectations. Yet that kid that signed with Texas Tech Onawausor and the Starwberry kid and Saintil from Jersey -- on there for quite a while. So for Robey, I have little or none. It reminds me of when Kelvin Henderson snuck in the SLU door from FoPoCoCo. Of course, we didn't salivate over recruiting back then but I recall Kelvin arriving with no fanfare and then him posting two monster seasons with us. Dwayne Evans was somewhat under the radar but he was a Rick baby and I explained that above. Reditt Hudson came with no fanfare and no real expectations ou tof U City High, but had a servicable SLU career. I do not recall Anthony Bonner, the greatest Billiken of the modern era to some, having any real fanfare out of Vashon. That was all devoted to Anthony Jones. How did that duo turn out? Everne Carr was a JUCO all-american. Same for Tony Manuel. Meh. Tyrone Caswell was the best recruit of the conference that year. Crash-n-burn. Keith Carter got high marks last year. Maybe that's the unfair thing about expectations. But they are there aren't they. Am I'm the guy that called Cory remekun the biggest A10 disappointment after his sophomore year. Expectations just unrealistic.

Ash I expect things from/due to a combination of three things -- fair or unfair. 1) Yes, the Reggie/Nova connection. 2) The fact that he originally had a four-star rating coming out of high school. And 3) the first-hand knowledge/connection I have with Nova folks telling me things about the kid and what/why Nova didn't work out. On the flip side, I expect little from McBroom. Why? 1) the Jake/MAC connection --- took him a while to even be a contributor to the effort. 2) No previous high school knowledge of him onmy part. And 3) don't know any Chippewas that I can talk to. Kind of cut both ways.

.

[cheeseman]

I don't think that was the case with Grandy. He was not "dumped." From everything I read, he signed with UNLV and Lon Kruger. When the coach left in the spring, Glaze asked out of his LOI.

Here is the link - http://www.8newsnow.com/story/14495390/rebel-recruit-decommits

Ace - thanks for the link - apparently I had not seen this explanation before.

[ACE]

Taj, I agree with your basic premise that the quality of schools offering a recruit is generally a predictor of how the player will pan out. Of course there are always exceptions and plenty of examples of highly rated recruits that turn out to be busts and lightly regarded recruits that go on to the NBA... it's an inexact science, but given a choice, the odds are always better that a more highly recruited recruit will turn out to have a better career. BUT, that is why I am perplexed by your thoughts on Roby. Everything I have read has him listed as a three-star recruit. His solid offers include Wake, Vandy and Mississippi State. One report indicated he may have also had offers from Tennessee and Arkansas... he definitely visited those two schools. Based on that, his resume is better than both Crawford and Agbeko, so not sure why you don't think much of the signing.

It did come together quickly, but it happens sometimes in recruiting... maybe not very oftern in Billiken history where we suddenly land a 3-star recruit, but it does happen. Amazing what a little on court success can lead to.

[Taj79]

@ACE --- I am not disputing your read on Robey. I just explained why I have no expectations on him at this point. I guess his verbal happened so quickly, I counted it and moved on. I know he is not a hatched chicken and things could change even though I've counted him in the fold, but my focus is elsewhere and off the VCs at this time. I am not disappointed nor am I overjoyed. If I had any expectations, it would be that every kid coming in is good enough to fill a role, no matter how minor it might be their first year recognizing that a rotation is only going to go eight or nine deep. Four guys will NOT play much. Frankly, I have higher expectations for Lancona, Agbeko and Crawford (in that order) based on what we lost and what we need to replace. But none of the three will be a bust. i learned a little about that when I declared Cory the bust of the A10 after his sophomore year. I stop short of calling Glaze and Manning busts but they are certainyl at a "now or never" precipice yet even that is tempered by the reality of a "Conklin summer."

We got one good year out of Brian through his four at SLU. Agree or disagree? An injury is immaterial to the overall basic equation.

I am somewhat reluctant to say this but have to ask: isn't Austin Gillman already way down the end of our bench and has been so for the last two years? Gosh, i hope not.

Bottom line: I have no expectations on Robey or Gillman at this point. Both could go on to be 1 and 1A in Billiken annals as all-time great. Or not.

[Westy03]

Who is this Robey guy you keep talking about

[Quality Is Job 1]

@ACE --- I am not disputing your read on Robey. I just explained why I have no expectations on him at this point. I guess his verbal happened so quickly, I counted it and moved on. I know he is not a hatched chicken and things could change even though I've counted him in the fold, but my focus is elsewhere and off the VCs at this time. I am not disappointed nor am I overjoyed. If I had any expectations, it would be that every kid coming in is good enough to fill a role, no matter how minor it might be their first year recognizing that a rotation is only going to go eight or nine deep. Four guys will NOT play much. Frankly, I have higher expectations for Lancona, Agbeko and Crawford (in that order) based on what we lost and what we need to replace. But none of the three will be a bust. i learned a little about that when I declared Cory the bust of the A10 after his sophomore year. I stop short of calling Glaze and Manning busts but they are certainyl at a "now or never" precipice yet even that is tempered by the reality of a "Conklin summer."

We got one good year out of Brian through his four at SLU. Agree or disagree? An injury is immaterial to the overall basic equation.

I am somewhat reluctant to say this but have to ask: isn't Austin Gillman already way down the end of our bench and has been so for the last two years? Gosh, i hope not.

Bottom line: I have no expectations on Robey or Gillman at this point. Both could go on to be 1 and 1A in Billiken annals as all-time great. Or not.

Taj, you seem to be developing some bad habits. First of all, don't let misspelling the kids' names become a habit. "Davell Roby"; "Austin Gillmann" (if I'm not mistaken). Make the correct spelling(s) a habit: type them out. Secondly, if people are telling you, with supported evidence, that your expectations are based on invalid or missing information or assumptions, then you're making yourself look bad by continuing to hold on to those incorrect expectations.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Who is this Robey guy you keep talking about

Davell Robey is a 2014 commit from Memphis. He presently attending White Station HS which usually is one the elite basketball HS in the country.

[b.hayes]

Davell Robey is a 2014 commit from Memphis. He presently attending White Station HS which usually is one the elite basketball HS in the country.

I think his point is it's Roby, not Robey.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I think his point is it's Roby, not Robey.

Your right. He is a 3 star and rated #31 PG. Should be a good player for us. When I was living in Johnson City, several of the years Science Hill (the local Johnson City High) and White Station used to battle it out for the TN state title. Some great games.

[Taj79]

Point received thicks. No guarantees made, however. Quickie, neuropathic typing fingers a detriment at times.

But so noted. Roby and Gillmann.