new coaches

[cheeseman]

Steve can probably answer this better than I can but it's not like he is manually putting the teasers on the main board. It's likely a search engine that is looking for key words or something like that. Heck, right now there is a teaser that refererences the cards game last night.

Is your whole complaint about the pay site that the search engine generated teasers sometimes end up on the front of this board??? That seems to be nit picking to say the least.

No, my point is that those who have info have chosen not to share it on the board which of course is their choice. The reasons given for not sharing are that BW will "kick us off" if he finds out that we shared the info, you can pay for the service if you want so stop bitching, those who really care will pay the $7.50 so if you do not then you must not really care, BW worked hard for the info and so he can control it. I doubt there is any paid subscription site that requires people to sign a pledge not share the info - after all once it is printed then it is fair game. If I buy a book and choose to give it to someone else to read once I have finished the publisher does not "blacklist me". I happen to be a daily subscriber of the Post - should I really care that there are others getting the info on line for free - no, once the stuff is out there then it is fair game. All I am saying is that a new coach hire is not low level news like a story on a possible recruit who is maybe one of many we are looking at. But, as I have said I can't argue the point because I do see both sides even though at times it does appear to be petty to be - my opinion my choice.

[GMan Alum]

+1 Ben's a great guy, and like us, loves basketball. He puts in a ton of time and is always cordial to anyone who wants to talk. I thought he must have cloned himself because no matter where I went during the "Battle for the Arch" AAU tournament, he was there. Keep up the good work, Ben. And yes, I am a subscriber.

[Billboy1]

Agree that those who want to subscibe to Ben's site can do so. There is a problem with showing something which gets your attention (on this board) and then finding out you have to pay to get the information. This has nothing to do with Steve, who does a tremendous job on this board. Just feel something that leads to a pay to know just has no place here.

[kshoe]

No, my point is that those who have info have chosen not to share it on the board which of course is their choice. The reasons given for not sharing are that BW will "kick us off" if he finds out that we shared the info, you can pay for the service if you want so stop bitching, those who really care will pay the $7.50 so if you do not then you must not really care, BW worked hard for the info and so he can control it. I doubt there is any paid subscription site that requires people to sign a pledge not share the info - after all once it is printed then it is fair game. If I buy a book and choose to give it to someone else to read once I have finished the publisher does not "blacklist me". I happen to be a daily subscriber of the Post - should I really care that there are others getting the info on line for free - no, once the stuff is out there then it is fair game. All I am saying is that a new coach hire is not low level news like a story on a possible recruit who is maybe one of many we are looking at. But, as I have said I can't argue the point because I do see both sides even though at times it does appear to be petty to be - my opinion my choice.

Is it "illegal" for a subscriber to post the knowledge that Ben reports over here? Of course not. Is it illegal for me to download a song from Itunes then put in on the internet for everyone else to use, yes. Is it illegal for me to viedotape a movie and put it on the net for everyone to see, yes. Is it illegal for me to buy a book, photocopy each page and then put it on the internet for mass distribution, yes. But thats not the point.

To draw a parrallel to your book example, if somebody I know and trust asked me what one of the articles was about I'd likely tell him as long as he agreed not to post it here. If he did that 3 or more times I'd likely tell him to buy a subscription, just like you'd likely tell your friend to buy his own books and stop mooching off yours if he kept coming to you asking for your latest book.

The people that subscribe to his board understand how it works and thankfully nobody has broken the code. Its important to remember how this thread started with someone asking for people to share the info and then a bunch of people complaining that a computer generated link to one of his articles showed up on this website.

[JMM28]

Check this topic off the list of "yearly offseason arguments."

On deck: Best could have been a Billiken of all time

[cheeseman]

Is it "illegal" for a subscriber to post the knowledge that Ben reports over here? Of course not. Is it illegal for me to download a song from Itunes then put in on the internet for everyone else to use, yes. Is it illegal for me to viedotape a movie and put it on the net for everyone to see, yes. Is it illegal for me to buy a book, photocopy each page and then put it on the internet for mass distribution, yes. But thats not the point.

To draw a parrallel to your book example, if somebody I know and trust asked me what one of the articles was about I'd likely tell him as long as he agreed not to post it here. If he did that 3 or more times I'd likely tell him to buy a subscription, just like you'd likely tell your friend to buy his own books and stop mooching off yours if he kept coming to you asking for your latest book.

The people that subscribe to his board understand how it works and thankfully nobody has broken the code. Its important to remember how this thread started with someone asking for people to share the info and then a bunch of people complaining that a computer generated link to one of his articles showed up on this website.

First of all I never said anything about pirating intellectual property just the sharing of info so all your examples are invalid. Second, if you do not want to share any information then fine - your choice but it is my choice to think it is petty.

[SpartanBilliken]

sooo... about those new assistant head coaches...

[slu72]

Check this topic off the list of "yearly offseason arguments."

On deck: Best could have been a Billiken of all time

You'll have to qualify that one. Does it cover locals we never had a prayer of landing, ie Beals? Or is it limited to guys that wanted to come to SLU, but UB didn't think they were spongeworthy? I'd have to go with Harrelson over you know who.

[jbizzle09]

You'll have to qualify that one. Does it cover locals we never had a prayer of landing, ie Beals? Or is it limited to guys that wanted to come to SLU, but UB didn't think they were spongeworthy? I'd have to go with Harrelson over you know who.

Also, if including the local guys, can we include those who haven't actually played college ball yet, like Nolan Berry, Malcolm Hill or Cameron Biedscheid?

[HusakAttack]

So BW gets free advertising to try and gain subscribers. I believe nate was highly criticized for this.

Nate also brought a lot of criticism on himself by posting on this board and instigating posters. Additionally, he had dozens of tweets last year regarding how the Bills are in trouble and along those lines that soured people. He seemed to have a bitter taste in his mouth (likely from RickMa putting him in his place a time or two) and that's understandable - but it will also draw criticism from the fan base.

[RiseAndGrind]

Nate also brought a lot of criticism on himself by posting on this board and instigating posters. Additionally, he had dozens of tweets last year regarding how the Bills are in trouble and along those lines that soured people. He seemed to have a bitter taste in his mouth (likely from RickMa putting him in his place a time or two) and that's understandable - but it will also draw criticism from the fan base.

Nate was a journalist, not a fan. And a good one at that.

[thetorch]

Check this topic off the list of "yearly offseason arguments."

On deck: Best could have been a Billiken of all time

Craig Upchurch

Lamar Odom

Ryan Grant

Taj Gray

[Clock_Tower]

Nate also brought a lot of criticism on himself by posting on this board and instigating posters. Additionally, he had dozens of tweets last year regarding how the Bills are in trouble and along those lines that soured people. He seemed to have a bitter taste in his mouth (likely from RickMa putting him in his place a time or two) and that's understandable - but it will also draw criticism from the fan base.

+1

Nate came on this Board and made a number of statements and posts openly questioning the recruitng efforts (or lack thereof) of SLU/Brad while praising that of SIUC. In hindsight, local AAU players like Booker and Roundtree ended the reign of Lowry at SIUC. Hard to tell b/c of injury but Femi John probably was the best of the three. Nate very easily could have posted under a different name and as a very informed fan but chose not to.

[Clock_Tower]

First of all I never said anything about pirating intellectual property just the sharing of info so all your examples are invalid. Second, if you do not want to share any information then fine - your choice but it is my choice to think it is petty.

Cheese. I'm with you. In fairness to Shoe and the other defending BW and the "Code", this thread was started with the request, specifically directed as those who pay for Scout, for insight as to who might be our next coaches. I agree with this aspect of the "Code" in which BW and Scout do perform alot of work, they do have a proprietary interest and they do have a right to protect this information.

With that said, I again ask the question for BW or any of the defenders of the "Code", what are the limits to this information? By limits I mean, is there are time frame? 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 1 year after Scout publishes information, then it is permissable to share? Are the bigger or "more obvious" references to Billiken recruiting permissable? Such as, at one time SLU was interested in Bradley Beal. If a subscriber personally attends a local AAU event and sees RM in the stands, and of course BW also attends and writes and article on Scout, does the subscriber violate the Code by posting the fact that RM is interest in this local player as is evidenced by RM's attendance? Put another way, if ALL Billiken recruting efforts is documented by BW and Scout, does that mean that ALL subcribers are prohibited from discussing Billiken recruiting on this Board?

Personally, I am looking forward to the day that avid SLU Billiken fans become larger 20 people.

[slufanskip]

$7.50 a month is not cheap. It's $90 per year. 20% of what you pay for a Billiken season ticket. I get and understand the need for a pay site. However it seems very few people subscribe. I have to wonder if he wouldn't get more gross dollars at $3 per month or say $29.95 for a year. He'd have me at that ... but not at $90 for a year.

For those that don't subscribe ... at what price if any would you?

[billiken_roy]

$7.50 a month is not cheap. It's $90 per year. 20% of what you pay for a Billiken season ticket. I get and understand the need for a pay site. However it seems very few people subscribe. I have to wonder if he wouldn't get more gross dollars at $3 per month or say $29.95 for a year. He'd have me at that ... but not at $90 for a year. For those that don't subscribe ... at what price if any would you?

i wouldnt until i saw first hand that there is constant billikens in the know information being supplied. i would not pay to get 5 morsels a year of solid info or rumors of some 2 star recruit that ohio, toledo and slu have watched once.

[Clock_Tower]

$7.50 a month is not cheap. It's $90 per year. 20% of what you pay for a Billiken season ticket. I get and understand the need for a pay site. However it seems very few people subscribe. I have to wonder if he wouldn't get more gross dollars at $3 per month or say $29.95 for a year. He'd have me at that ... but not at $90 for a year.

For those that don't subscribe ... at what price if any would you?

Hard to say at what price. For me, it's really not $90 v. $50 (or so). Instead, I don't really care to know the names and stats of the last 10 recruits, with whom they walked around campus with and what other schools they are still interested in. With RM, I am confident he will fill all available scholarships and that he will field good players.... and chose to wait until things become public. In SLU's case, however, it sure seems like nothing much ever becomes public unless it is a SLU announcement or press conference. IMO, subcribers are paying to get accurate information, to get it first and to get these types of detail -- not to stifle all recruiting talk and discussion. If KShoe and others want to subcribe to get this info, then great. Unlike the starter of this topic, I am not interested in someone leaking the same information for free. Proprietary information, hard work, incentive ... I get it.

To me, though, if subcribers read about Player X being interested in SLU (and SLU equally interested in return) when the kid is a Sophomore, and if updates are then naturally written about this player over the next two (2) years, I just find it a shame that this Board will not have ANY real discussion recruiting or about about Player X -- at any time and at any level -- over the whole two (2) years. I, for one, would love to hear KShoe's thoughts about Player X (a point guard) over Player Y (a shooting guard) or Player A (a small forward) over Player B (a large guard). In turn, Skip could give his comments, followed by more comments from Cheese, Roy, Taj, SLU72, Billikan, '05, etc. Also find it a shame this Board does not share comments, from many different posters, saying who Player X reminds them of, etc.

What do other programs do? No discussion at all on Kentucky's, Duke's, IU's and KU's respective boards as each KU subscriber honor's the Code as well? I have trouble believing this.

[ACE]

Hard to say at what price. For me, it's really not $90 v. $50 (or so). Instead, I don't really care to know the names and stats of the last 10 recruits, with whom they walked around campus with and what other schools they are still interested in. With RM, I am confident he will fill all available scholarships and that he will field good players.... and chose to wait until things become public. In SLU's case, however, it sure seems like nothing much ever becomes public unless it is a SLU announcement or press conference. IMO, subcribers are paying to get accurate information, to get it first and to get these types of detail -- not to stifle all recruiting talk and discussion. If KShoe and others want to subcribe to get this info, then great. Unlike the starter of this topic, I am not interested in someone leaking the same information for free. Proprietary information, hard work, incentive ... I get it.

To me, though, if subcribers read about Player X being interested in SLU (and SLU equally interested in return) when the kid is a Sophomore, and if updates are then naturally written about this player over the next two (2) years, I just find it a shame that this Board will not have ANY real discussion recruiting or about about Player X -- at any time and at any level -- over the whole two (2) years. I, for one, would love to hear KShoe's thoughts about Player X (a point guard) over Player Y (a shooting guard) or Player A (a small forward) over Player B (a large guard). In turn, Skip could give his comments, followed by more comments from Cheese, Roy, Taj, SLU72, Billikan, '05, etc. Also find it a shame this Board does not share comments, from many different posters, saying who Player X reminds them of, etc.

What do other programs do? No discussion at all on Kentucky's, Duke's, IU's and KU's respective boards as each KU subscriber honor's the Code as well? I have trouble believing this.

Regarding recruiting info, I think one of the problems is Timmermann. His blog is nice during the season, but he doesn't seem much interested in following offseason news or recruiting. On the other hand, in Timmermann's defense, outside of us on the board, perhaps there is not a lot of demand for Billiken recruiting news. Maybe if enough folks emailed him and expressed interest in offseason news and recruiting, he would dig a little deeper. I have seen a lot of team's beat writers from newspapers provide recruiting tidbits for free. Not sure why Timmermann doesn't.

[HusakAttack]

Regarding recruiting info, I think one of the problems is Timmermann. His blog is nice during the season, but he doesn't seem much interested in following offseason news or recruiting. On the other hand, in Timmermann's defense, outside of us on the board, perhaps there is not a lot of demand for Billiken recruiting news. Maybe if enough folks emailed him and expressed interest in offseason news and recruiting, he would dig a little deeper. I have seen a lot of team's beat writers from newspapers provide recruiting tidbits for free. Not sure why Timmermann doesn't.

In regards to the bolded statement, the answer is clear: he is chasing poon. He, just like every other red blooded American has 2 equal priorities splitting #1 - getting poon, and keeping a job. You need to keep your job to pay for poon (whether it be taking broads on dates, buying hot b!tches drinks, or just literally paying for it). He is doing enough to keep his job while still having ample poon-chasing time...boom...answer

[BIG BILL FAN]

LOL....if you guys want information, buck up like the rest of us.

I subscribed and concluded that it wasn't worth it.....I am content to wait for the exciting news of who our next assistant coaches will be..glad you are enjoying all of that inside info!

[brianstl]

I saw on a Marquette board that Tanner might be moving up. Not sure if it is accurate or not.

[TheBand]

Regarding recruiting info, I think one of the problems is Timmermann. His blog is nice during the season, but he doesn't seem much interested in following offseason news or recruiting. On the other hand, in Timmermann's defense, outside of us on the board, perhaps there is not a lot of demand for Billiken recruiting news. Maybe if enough folks emailed him and expressed interest in offseason news and recruiting, he would dig a little deeper. I have seen a lot of team's beat writers from newspapers provide recruiting tidbits for free. Not sure why Timmermann doesn't.

To be fair, Timmerman has been covering other sports since the SLU season ended...including Blues playof hockey and he's been at the ballpark all week with the Birds. Its not like he's shirking his responsibilities at the PD lately, he's covering what he is assigned. Of late, he's filed stories covering SLU baseball, softball, track and field as well as the VCU announcement. He will cover the story of new assistant coaches when they are hired. This board is the place to speculate on thos jobs, not the PD.

[MB73]

Nate was a journalist, not a fan. And a good one at that.

Nate is a good guy, but he once clearly pushed a kid that wasn't even the best on his own HS team and got him All Metro "Player Of The Year".

Pure politics. Buddy-buddies with all of the kid's HS & AAU coaches.

[thetorch]

Cheese. I'm with you. In fairness to Shoe and the other defending BW and the "Code", this thread was started with the request, specifically directed as those who pay for Scout, for insight as to who might be our next coaches. I agree with this aspect of the "Code" in which BW and Scout do perform alot of work, they do have a proprietary interest and they do have a right to protect this information.

With that said, I again ask the question for BW or any of the defenders of the "Code", what are the limits to this information? By limits I mean, is there are time frame? 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 1 year after Scout publishes information, then it is permissable to share? Are the bigger or "more obvious" references to Billiken recruiting permissable? Such as, at one time SLU was interested in Bradley Beal. If a subscriber personally attends a local AAU event and sees RM in the stands, and of course BW also attends and writes and article on Scout, does the subscriber violate the Code by posting the fact that RM is interest in this local player as is evidenced by RM's attendance? Put another way, if ALL Billiken recruting efforts is documented by BW and Scout, does that mean that ALL subcribers are prohibited from discussing Billiken recruiting on this Board?

Personally, I am looking forward to the day that avid SLU Billiken fans become larger 20 people.

Good questions.

What I've always done with this is if I can verify through an independent source, ie a recruits name is on rivals list for SLU along with Scout's or if a newspaper article from a recruits hometown reports on said recruit and SLU I consider the info not contained anymore and I feel free to comment on it here. This is also applies to information I verify personally, if I get it myself and say who I spoke to then the "code" doesn't apply anymore.

I don't think the existence of the Scout site has killed any recruiting talk on this board. We never have had that much. I used to report on games or events I attended here and give some personal views on local players and possible recruits. These posts were met with a litany of so & so sucks, who cares, and you don't know anything about basketball. I just quit doing it. We used to have a lot more posters who would evaluate and give their thoughts on recruits, mostly local, and one way or another they were run off the board.

[cheeseman]

$7.50 a month is not cheap. It's $90 per year. 20% of what you pay for a Billiken season ticket. I get and understand the need for a pay site. However it seems very few people subscribe. I have to wonder if he wouldn't get more gross dollars at $3 per month or say $29.95 for a year. He'd have me at that ... but not at $90 for a year.

For those that don't subscribe ... at what price if any would you?

Skip, this actually an interesting thought - one that companies face all the time, do they charge a high price for something and try to make it that way or a lower price and try to make it with volume. I see your point that BW may be better off trying to build his brand rather than making it something that is a high priced activity. For me, I simply do not have the time nor the keen interest to check these kinds of websites on a regular basis 12 months a year so I have tended not to get involved with them. However, I am reminded of a friend of mine (in the business) who asked me many years ago at what price point would I be willing to pay for an oil change rather than do it myself - for those of you that this sounds odd to it was very common 25 or more years ago to change your own oil - anyway, his point was if it was cheap enough would I do this. He was absolutely correct, there is always a price point that people would be willing to change their behavior. I guess I would answer your question with a qualified yes - $90 is not an enormous amount of money but enough that I would think twice about it - where is the price point that I would be more casual - is it $29.99, maybe but the info would have to be worth it as Roy indicated. Maybe a solution to this is to have BW offer a free subscription for 3 months that requires your credit card to activate but allowing you to actively drop out if after the 3 months you are not satisfied. It is hard to get people to take a flyer for $90 so he has set the bar high for himself in my opinion. I do agree that while I am generally content to wait for info I do think that the board could be more forthcoming with some of the bigger stuff - like coaches being hired but once again BW and his group of subscribers can do what they want.