Returning players - What I have heard

[Clock_Tower]

This "recruiting over" issue is somewhat complicated. Which comes first, the kid realizes he will be riding the pines and the season goes on and so he starts thinking about his options. Then the coach recruits another kid at the first one's position and the kid then says OK the writing is on the wall I am transferring. Did the kid leave on his own accord or was he pushed out - the answer is in the eyes of the beholder. I think where this whole issue gets seedy is when the coach recruits more players than he has spots for and then has the summer to pull the schollie or get the a kid to leave. To continue to recruit players if you have some inkling of a kid maybe leaving is not bad just sound practice. To lead a kid on to make him think he has a schollie renewal and then pull it because a prettier girl showed up at the dance is wrong.

Good examples. Question back for you. What is the head coach saying to those kids he continues to recruit?

Scenario A. I sure want you to come to SLU but not sure if one Player A will make grades. Also, I might have room for you if Player B actually decides to transfer like he has mentioned to some of the other players. So, I guess it's all up in the air right now. Please don't sign with anyone else. I promise I will call you first thing upon the earlier of Player A making grades or Player B deciding what he wants to do.

Scenerio B. I sure want you to come to SLU. What? Oh don't worry about a spot. I've got 1 or 2 guys leaving anyway. It's not public yet but at least one of them is moving on. Turst me. If it were to go public, it will only hurt my ability to get them in the situation of their choice. Either way, I will have a spot for you.

[slufanskip]

You have player A he played his freshman year but disapointed a bit and didn't do as well as expected. You've recruited 3 new players this year who should easily take minutes from said player A, relegating him to a very minor bench role getting mostly mop up minutes. As a coach what do you do?

Do you be honest with the kid and tell him what you believe to be the tough but honest truth?

Do you tell him if he puts in extra time he can possibly earn more minutes even though in your mind you highly doubt he will?

Of course I can't speak for all kids, but if you told me I'd likely ride the pine at SLU or I could transfer to another school I liked at a lower level and probably play alot, I'd leave in a heartbeat. The kids who are leaving aren't pro level players by any stretch. Not Europe, the CBA, nothing. Their real playing days are over when they graduate. If it was me I'd rather spend those years playing.

Next, if RM doesn't continue to recruit and players decide to leave we are screwed. Please don't say they can recruit and just be ready in case a player decides to leave ... I highly doubt that's very realistic. How long do you think you can string a good player along waiting to see if you have an opening?

You can't expect any coach to be successful when you don't even allow him to play within the rules. I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about playing within the current rules. Like it or not scholarships are 1 year deals. Period.

[Clock_Tower]

For what it's worth, one of the best local select teams (10 year olds) has a big name coach who met with all the parents, told them his philosophy upfront, told them the bottom 1/3 kids would be playing only a small amount compared to the top 2/3's, and then also told them that he took 3 more kids than what would be a full roster. This way, each week there will be fierce competition to make the team (3 kids will not travel/play at all each week). Keep in mind, that with the additional of the 3 extra players, if your 10 year old is now in the bottom 1/2 of the team (the bottom 1/3 plus 3 kids), the he will mostly be just a practice/limited role player getting to travel/play to some but not all games and then playing very little in the games he does make. Talk about "being recruited over"?? On this team, the last place spot on the team is not even safe each week. I applaud the coach for having an open and honest discussion before finalizing the team, collecting money, etc. but note that on the surface this does appear quite harsh to already be applying to 10 year olds. Despite this warning, I understand that all the kids selected for the team accepted under these terms. Yes, college athletes are still youngsters but ages 18 to 22 is alot different than 10 year olds.

BTW, my children are younger than 10 years old so this does not personally affect me, is not "sour grapes", etc. but is just thrown out an example about how ruthless youth sports has become. With $1 million plus coaching contracts and national TV broadcasts at stake and the practical need to make men's NCAA basketball and football carry the load for ALL college sports, no wonder some innocent, but marginally talented, D1 athlete gets screwed along the way. That's just life nowadays in college basketball. Not saying it's right, just or fair, but if SLU wants to be relevant in D1 college basketball, we need to thicken our skins and learn to close our eyes or look the other way every now and then.

[brianstl]

Anyone who would put their ten year old on that team is an idiot. There is no way the kids can learn how to properly play the game with that kind of team structure. Anyone giving this guy money might as well just throw it away instead.

[ACE]

You do realize that the player that was pushed out from the 09-10 team (Justin Jordan) had grade issues and was part of The Situation after announcing his transfer? He couldn't even get into Bowling green due to his academics. Thus, it would appear that RM made the right decision in 'recruiting over him', wouldn't you think? Other than his first year here, when he pushed out UB's awful recruits, you can't really point to another situation where RM has recruited over and pushed out kids to get someone better. And I don't consider CS as a legit example, as he made the decision himself and we still have an open scolarship that can be used, so obviously nobody was waiting in the wings.

I asked a similar question and he had no answer. That's all you need to know about his theory.

[slufan13]

I would say that I want the season to start so that we have something else to talk about, but the "recruiting over kids" argument always seems to come up no matter what time of year it is.

[cheeseman]

Good examples. Question back for you. What is the head coach saying to those kids he continues to recruit?

Scenario A. I sure want you to come to SLU but not sure if one Player A will make grades. Also, I might have room for you if Player B actually decides to transfer like he has mentioned to some of the other players. So, I guess it's all up in the air right now. Please don't sign with anyone else. I promise I will call you first thing upon the earlier of Player A making grades or Player B deciding what he wants to do.

Scenerio B. I sure want you to come to SLU. What? Oh don't worry about a spot. I've got 1 or 2 guys leaving anyway. It's not public yet but at least one of them is moving on. Turst me. If it were to go public, it will only hurt my ability to get them in the situation of their choice. Either way, I will have a spot for you.

I would like to think A is the what happens but I am not foolish enough to know that B happens sometimes at some places.

[slufanskip]

I would like to think A is the what happens but I am not foolish enough to know that B happens sometimes at some places.

Hell you couldn't even get UB's roster recruiting via example A. How many kids worth a crap would say "yea, no problem. I'll put my other offers on hold and wait for the powerhouse SLU to decide if they can use me or not?

It's simple, if you want your scholarship renewed, be good enough they wouldn't dare not renew it.

[tourist]

And I don't consider CS as a legit example, as he made the decision himself and we still have an open scolarship that can be used, so obviously nobody was waiting in the wings.

If you beleieve the statement you have written you have been fooled.

Any one close to the team knows that CS was given no option but to leave , as i remember SLU were chasing 2-3 players before CS was released ,

I do have a problem with kids being pushed/over recruited out especially when they are solid/ honour roll students and have done nothing wrong as towards the school,team or community.

[The Pelican]

You have player A he played his freshman year but disapointed a bit and didn't do as well as expected. You've recruited 3 new players this year who should easily take minutes from said player A, relegating him to a very minor bench role getting mostly mop up minutes. As a coach what do you do?

Do you be honest with the kid and tell him what you believe to be the tough but honest truth?

Do you tell him if he puts in extra time he can possibly earn more minutes even though in your mind you highly doubt he will?

Of course I can't speak for all kids, but if you told me I'd likely ride the pine at SLU or I could transfer to another school I liked at a lower level and probably play alot, I'd leave in a heartbeat. The kids who are leaving aren't pro level players by any stretch. Not Europe, the CBA, nothing. Their real playing days are over when they graduate. If it was me I'd rather spend those years playing.

Next, if RM doesn't continue to recruit and players decide to leave we are screwed. Please don't say they can recruit and just be ready in case a player decides to leave ... I highly doubt that's very realistic. How long do you think you can string a good player along waiting to see if you have an opening?

You can't expect any coach to be successful when you don't even allow him to play within the rules. I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about playing within the current rules. Like it or not scholarships are 1 year deals. Period.

Nailed it mister!

[For-DaLove]

If you beleieve the statement you have written you have been fooled.

Any one close to the team knows that CS was given no option but to leave , as i remember SLU were chasing 2-3 players before CS was released ,

I do have a problem with kids being pushed/over recruited out especially when they are solid/ honour roll students and have done nothing wrong as towards the school,team or community.

No, actually he was just told his playing time would be limited if he stayed. The decision to leave was his.

[tourist]

No, actually he was just told his playing time would be limited if he stayed. The decision to leave was his.

Sorry my friend but totally incorrect , Try Again !!!!

[For-DaLove]

Sorry my friend but totally incorrect , Try Again !!!!

Haha. I'll take my sources over you, thanks though.

[tourist]

Haha. I'll take my sources over you, thanks though.

Incorrect as they are thats cool believe in what you want !! Haha

[kshoe]

Incorrect as they are thats cool believe in what you want !! Haha

You still predicting Ellis to leave too? Seems like about half your posts are focused on the Aussie guys leaving dating back to before they even came here.

[GoBills]

Haha. I'll take my sources over you, thanks though.

Correct. I have also heard from a very good source, not the type who sugarcoats thanks, and he confirms what you are saying. There has been quite a bit of misinformation in this thread.

[davidnark]

So I start this thread to share some positive Billiken news, and yet Roy still manages to hijack it with his anti-Majerus agenda. Unbelievable.

[The Pelican]

Haha. I'll take my sources over you, thanks though.

I know for a fact that this is how it went down.

[brianstl]

I know for a fact that this is how it went down.

+2

[GOSLU68]

+2

With RM we have competition for playing time. Previous systems we were lucky to have five starters. RM brought us Conklin and Cassity. These two ( who had less than stellar sophomore years) were touted as the team leaders.

RM will recruit kids that know he is tough and some will prove out as Conklin did and some will not. I would say at times it looked as if Conklin was recruited over after his freshman year.

CS showed signs that he could play like Anthony Drejaj but did not get it up week after week. AD had hardly any classical athleticism or basketball skill but I think he scared people.

Few opponents would want AD to guard or be guarded by.

I agree about recruiting over to an extent; but these kids are touted by high school and AAU coaches and have Utube videos showing them dunking over high school kids. Larry Simmons was recruited over but showed nothing.

Coaches have to keep recruiting as some of these players just don't want to work to the extent required and some can just be mistakes that can't play at this level i.e. Sekue Barentine.

Remember the big kid, Braun, we had out of Redbud, Illinois area or BT? Talent, size, history of being winners that only takes you so far.

Saint Louis Stats

Player G MIN RPG APG PPG

M. McCall 31 909 2.1 3.0 10.4

B. Conklin31 663 4.3 0.6 8.7

D. Evans 31 723 6.5 0.7 8.5

K. Cassity31 978 2.3 3.4 8.4

J. Jett 31 748 3.1 2.4 7.5

add 15 points from KM and 12 from JB and 6 rebounds from Manning and we could be in a different world

we thought this team below was pretty fun to watch in 2000

Player G GS Min MPG FG FGA Pct. 3FG 3FGA Pct. FT FTA Pct. O.Reb D.Reb Reb RPG PF A TO BS Pts PPG

Cobbin 31 31 27.6 109 252 0.433 52 137 0.38 64 76 0.84 7 70 140 4.52 57 54 46 0 48 334 10.8

Love 24 18 26 117 276 0.424 42 111 0.38 53 69 0.77 46 60 120 5 51 39 67 2 31 329 13.7

Fergerson31 22 24.4 96 243 0.395 41 131 0.31 49 64 0.77 20 46 92 2.97 53 60 68 0 31 282 9.1

Luechtefeld31 31 30 101 221 0.457 11 40 0.28 46 80 0.58 63 99 198 6.39 93 59 58 10 30 259 8.35

Baniak 31 16 18.2 66 137 0.482 0 0 0 31 44 0.7 43 70 140 4.52 60 17 36 19 18 163 5.26

Tatum 22 0 19.5 57 140 0.407 1 3 0.33 44 75 0.59 36 62 124 5.64 43 10 39 26 10 159 7.23

Robertson31 9 15.7 31 70 0.443 12 32 0.38 46 64 0.72 13 42 84 2.71 52 44 26 2 21 120 3.87

Heinrich 31 15 12.9 44 94 0.468 0 0 0 22 37 0.59 44 47 94 3.03 57 8 30 15 11 110 3.5

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/html_a4102872-1e9c-11e0-bd06-00127992bc8b.html#ixzz1RS31hM8q

[kmbilliken]

With RM we have competition for playing time. Previous systems we were lucky to have five starters. RM brought us Conklin and Cassity. These two ( who had less than stellar sophomore years) were touted as the team leaders.

RM will recruit kids that know he is tough and some will prove out as Conklin did and some will not. I would say at times it looked as if Conklin was recruited over after his freshman year.

CS showed signs that he could play like Anthony Drejaj but did not get it up week after week. AD had hardly any classical athleticism or basketball skill but I think he scared people.

Few opponents would want AD to guard or be guarded by.

I agree about recruiting over to an extent; but these kids are touted by high school and AAU coaches and have Utube videos showing them dunking over high school kids. Larry Simmons was recruited over but showed nothing.

Coaches have to keep recruiting as some of these players just don't want to work to the extent required and some can just be mistakes that can't play at this level i.e. Sekue Barentine.

Remember the big kid, Braun, we had out of Redbud, Illinois area or BT? Talent, size, history of being winners that only takes you so far.

Saint Louis Stats

Player G MIN RPG APG PPG

M. McCall 31 909 2.1 3.0 10.4

B. Conklin31 663 4.3 0.6 8.7

D. Evans 31 723 6.5 0.7 8.5

K. Cassity31 978 2.3 3.4 8.4

J. Jett 31 748 3.1 2.4 7.5

add 15 points from KM and 12 from JB and 6 rebounds from Manning and we could be in a different world

we thought this team below was pretty fun to watch in 2000

Player G GS Min MPG FG FGA Pct. 3FG 3FGA Pct. FT FTA Pct. O.Reb D.Reb Reb RPG PF A TO BS Pts PPG

Cobbin 31 31 27.6 109 252 0.433 52 137 0.38 64 76 0.84 7 70 140 4.52 57 54 46 0 48 334 10.8

Love 24 18 26 117 276 0.424 42 111 0.38 53 69 0.77 46 60 120 5 51 39 67 2 31 329 13.7

Fergerson31 22 24.4 96 243 0.395 41 131 0.31 49 64 0.77 20 46 92 2.97 53 60 68 0 31 282 9.1

Luechtefeld31 31 30 101 221 0.457 11 40 0.28 46 80 0.58 63 99 198 6.39 93 59 58 10 30 259 8.35

Baniak 31 16 18.2 66 137 0.482 0 0 0 31 44 0.7 43 70 140 4.52 60 17 36 19 18 163 5.26

Tatum 22 0 19.5 57 140 0.407 1 3 0.33 44 75 0.59 36 62 124 5.64 43 10 39 26 10 159 7.23

Robertson31 9 15.7 31 70 0.443 12 32 0.38 46 64 0.72 13 42 84 2.71 52 44 26 2 21 120 3.87

Heinrich 31 15 12.9 44 94 0.468 0 0 0 22 37 0.59 44 47 94 3.03 57 8 30 15 11 110 3.5

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/html_a4102872-1e9c-11e0-bd06-00127992bc8b.html#ixzz1RS31hM8q

The thing that amazes me most about those stats is Baniak's 3 pt. percentage, 70%.

He didn't start shooting those until well into his senior year and was lights out. I remember thinking what the hell have you been doing the last 3 1/2 years? Sitting on a killer weapon. I'll never figure that one out.

[GOSLU68]

The thing that amazes me most about those stats is Baniak's 3 pt. percentage, 70%.

He didn't start shooting those until well into his senior year and was lights out. I remember thinking what the hell have you been doing the last 3 1/2 years? Sitting on a killer weapon. I'll never figure that one out.

If Baniak played for Grawer and shot a 3 pointer made or not he wouldn't have played the next week-times have changed and RM has only recruited bigs that can shoot threes unless Manning is the exception. Hell Husak

would have shot more threes under RM.

[Clock_Tower]

If Baniak played for Grawer and shot a 3 pointer made or not he wouldn't have played the next week-times have changed and RM has only recruited bigs that can shoot threes unless Manning is the exception. Hell Husak

would have shot more threes under RM.

So you think WR could shoot beyond 6 feet? What about Brett Thompson as well? How good is CR from the perimeter? What about JS (wasn't he considered a "big")?

[NH]

So you think WR could shoot beyond 6 feet? What about Brett Thompson as well? How good is CR from the perimeter? What about JS (wasn't he considered a "big")?

Thompson could actually but yes somewhere in GOSLU's barely intelligible rant was some incorrect info about the types of bigs we recruit. RM recruits good players, I don't think there is such as a thing as an RM player. I mean guys like Paul Eckerle fit that mold but I think RM would recruit a Kwamain Mitchell type anywhere he went.

[Tonka]

Thompson could actually but yes somewhere in GOSLU's barely intelligible rant was some incorrect info about the types of bigs we recruit. RM recruits good players, I don't think there is such as a thing as an RM player. I mean guys like Paul Eckerle fit that mold but I think RM would recruit a Kwamain Mitchell type anywhere he went.