John Manning

[BWBillikenReport]

So you post a quote from an anonymous analyst.....why ?

We have no way to judge this analyst. Out with his name or don't post......

Sorry you feel that way. I won't be posting then, I guess.

[gobillsgo]

Sorry you feel that way. I won't be posting then, I guess.

Don't sweat it man. In these hard times for Bills fans, it seems like all of us seem to look for reasons to hate each other. Your OP wasn't extremely negative, but I think with the high expectations some have for Manning, hearing that he is not necessarily going to be an immediate impact guy might upset some folks. If you have any updates, as long as your source is legitimate, by all means keep posting.

[doowop]

Sorry you feel that way. I won't be posting then, I guess.

You need to remember that many of the people who post on here have more basketball knowledge, especially about players they have not seen, than any unnamed analyst who has seen a player play numerous times.

[thetorch]

So you post a quote from an anonymous analyst.....why ?

We have no way to judge this analyst. Out with his name or don't post......

Sad that there are people on this board who are telling writers from Billikenreport.com not to post here. This guy is at most games, in the press conferences and has connections to other scouts and writers across the country but we don't want him here. SMH

Guy that made these comments if Jeff Borzello, he's a writer for NBE Basketball, which is one of my main sources for East coast hoops, he writes for FOX sports and has his own site Bustingthebracket.com which I visit on a weekly basis. Are those credentials good enough for you.

When Manning was signed I think the consensus here was that he was a redshirt candidate. Now since our remaining bigs have played poorly, and showed severe holes in their game the legend of john Manning has grown. He's now become a contributor and starter on next years team. This is way off base. He's a project, he didn't start on his AAU team. I wouldn't expect contributions from him any better than CR's last year. Manning came here to play and learn under Majerus. Majerus has a track record for developing severely overlooked big men. I'm confident that Majerus can develop Manning, I'm also confident that no matter how bad our bigs are that Manning won't start next year.

Manning has had some good numbers rebounding and shotblocking, but he should being 6'10 and playing HS ball. On his team there is a 6'8 player who does most of the scoring. Manning's team plays out in the Virginia suburbs, D.C. area ball is better than ST. Louis' but it isn't like he is playing Dematha every night. I could be wrong but I'd be very surprised if he is a rotation player next year.

BTW Chris Heinrich was a top 100 recruit on several lists.

[Taj79]

Everything is relative ..... if this was a Baltimore-based scout, I would offer that he is used to seeing players over and above the national mean. Baltimore has regularly produced the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Rudy Gay, Mark Karcher, Sam Cassell, Juan Dixon, Josh Boone, Keith Booth, and, lately, Kevin Durant and now Josh Selby. And these guys typically end up at schools in high major/BCS confernces like the ACC, the Big East, Big Twelve nd so on. His scale might be a little larger or heavier in terms of what he defines as "talent."

One would have to wonder what both Husak and Voyoukas might have done under a Majerus tutelage rather than a Soderberg devlopmental scale. I don't recall Keith Van Horne, Hanno Motola or Andrew Bogut being of a Selby-like recruiting frenzy --- but we didn't really have those back then. That said, I'm still waiting on the "total" development of both Willie and Cory so the meter can register on both sides of neutral here.

I also recall Manning's prospect list of schools not being that impressive but we do operate on the "diamonds in the rough" theory, right? Plus, given Biancrdi's one year stint on Rick's bench, I am not so sure he can be counted on as an "unbiased" source for counter evaluations.

I am happy with the signing and can't wait to see him on the team. I said the same for Loe so let's all realize our big men recruits will ALL be works in progress. If you're that good, you are not coming to Saint Louis University in the first place.

My 80-year-old father saw the St. Joes game from his home near Philly Saturday. Three comments: #1) he said #24 (Ellis) has hands made of stone; #2) that #11 (McCall) and the rest of the team couldn't make a layup, let alone shoot from the perimeter; and #3) we looked a whole lot better than St. Joe's.

[Basketbill]

Torch thanks for the additional information, now there is a basis to judge Bezzillo's evaluation vs perhaps a biased Biancardi. Is it too much to ask to source a negative comment about a recruit. It is not like it is classified material.

I will still go with Majerus/Moser evaluation until I see him play. I do not expect him to be Wilt Chamberlin, but with a track record of WR, KM, DE, MM, RL, JJ I will trust they have a reason to recruit him, redshift candidate or

Not.

As for writers from Billikenreport, Nate has a track record, this guy I had never heard for all I know this was his first post. The underlying Economics of their post should be to entice fans to subscribe to Billikenreport, his post did not do that.

[cheeseman]

First we did not shoot well against St. Joes - so anybody who wants to make an assessment on that game is fine but clearly not the full picture. We have trouble scoring - no doubt about that but I keep hoping that we are learning through this and will get better.

WVBill - Thanks for the info on Manning - did you see him play? - if so was he being doubled teamed or was the defense dropping back on him? Looking solely at stats does not always show the full picture of the player's ability all the time. The Baltimore scout you quoted is suppose to be an expert - right. Therefore, his name being attributed to the comments is not an unfair expectation. He may be right about his evaluation but as a recruiting person he should be expected to stand by his comments not hide as he obviously choose to do so - if he was not expecting you to share those thoughts then shame on you. But once again I am only asking questions trying to get a better understanding of the issue.

[NashvilleBilliken]

Thanks for contributing, but I'll take the opinion of our coaching staff over a "recruiting analyst". Rick doesn't just hand schollies out to any kid with a basketball. My guess is that his upside is huge and will be a fantastic player by the end of his tenure.

[MusicCityBilliken]

BTW Chris Heinrich was a top 100 recruit on several lists.

Just curious, what was Josh Harrellson's ranking when he signed with Western Ill?

[kshoe]

Everything is relative ..... if this was a Baltimore-based scout, I would offer that he is used to seeing players over and above the national mean. Baltimore has regularly produced the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Rudy Gay, Mark Karcher, Sam Cassell, Juan Dixon, Josh Boone, Keith Booth, and, lately, Kevin Durant and now Josh Selby. And these guys typically end up at schools in high major/BCS confernces like the ACC, the Big East, Big Twelve nd so on. His scale might be a little larger or heavier in terms of what he defines as "talent."

One would have to wonder what both Husak and Voyoukas might have done under a Majerus tutelage rather than a Soderberg devlopmental scale. I don't recall Keith Van Horne, Hanno Motola or Andrew Bogut being of a Selby-like recruiting frenzy --- but we didn't really have those back then. That said, I'm still waiting on the "total" development of both Willie and Cory so the meter can register on both sides of neutral here.

I also recall Manning's prospect list of schools not being that impressive but we do operate on the "diamonds in the rough" theory, right? Plus, given Biancrdi's one year stint on Rick's bench, I am not so sure he can be counted on as an "unbiased" source for counter evaluations.

I am happy with the signing and can't wait to see him on the team. I said the same for Loe so let's all realize our big men recruits will ALL be works in progress. If you're that good, you are not coming to Saint Louis University in the first place.

My 80-year-old father saw the St. Joes game from his home near Philly Saturday. Three comments: #1) he said #24 (Ellis) has hands made of stone; #2) that #11 (McCall) and the rest of the team couldn't make a layup, let alone shoot from the perimeter; and #3) we looked a whole lot better than St. Joe's.

I'm pretty sure a Baltimore area scout would know how to adjust his talent scale to determine if a player was mid major talent or not. I seriously doubt he was thinking of Selby or any of those other players when talking about Manning not being good enough to play at SLU...

To Torch and others that are talking about the "legend of Manning." Who exactly is saying that stuff? Besides MB73, I haven't seen many people expect anything out of Manning next year, but maybe I missed it.

[HusakAttack]

I think we should fire Rick, clean house and start over after reading this. We should only be signing guys that are 100% NBA prospects.

Come on guys, chill out. Who gives a ###### what one scout says about a player. Scouts have missed before...

[AlumniFan]

Sad that there are people on this board who are telling writers from Billikenreport.com not to post here. This guy is at most games, in the press conferences and has connections to other scouts and writers across the country but we don't want him here. SMH

Guy that made these comments if Jeff Borzello, he's a writer for NBE Basketball, which is one of my main sources for East coast hoops, he writes for FOX sports and has his own site Bustingthebracket.com which I visit on a weekly basis. Are those credentials good enough for you.

When Manning was signed I think the consensus here was that he was a redshirt candidate. Now since our remaining bigs have played poorly, and showed severe holes in their game the legend of john Manning has grown. He's now become a contributor and starter on next years team. This is way off base. He's a project, he didn't start on his AAU team. I wouldn't expect contributions from him any better than CR's last year. Manning came here to play and learn under Majerus. Majerus has a track record for developing severely overlooked big men. I'm confident that Majerus can develop Manning, I'm also confident that no matter how bad our bigs are that Manning won't start next year.

Manning has had some good numbers rebounding and shotblocking, but he should being 6'10 and playing HS ball. On his team there is a 6'8 player who does most of the scoring. Manning's team plays out in the Virginia suburbs, D.C. area ball is better than ST. Louis' but it isn't like he is playing Dematha every night. I could be wrong but I'd be very surprised if he is a rotation player next year.

BTW Chris Heinrich was a top 100 recruit on several lists.

I do not have a problem with someone like this posting, but because the name he used could be easily confused with Nate, I wanted to make sure people knew that this was not Nate. I really wish people would use unique posting names to reduce the confusion. For example, if someone comes on posting as "thetorcher" it could easily be taken as you.

[slufanskip]

Willie will get it together and play next year. It seems to me from some comments that Willie has grown up quite a bit these last few months. He'll get all the help he needs academically as long as he puts in the effort himself, he'll be fine.

I haven't heard one person expecting this guy to start. If the situation with Willie is good to go when school starts next year, I wouldn't mind seeing the kid redshirt. Bigs take a couple of years, lets give them to the kid and give him time to develop.

Btw ... Bryce would have been used much differently and been a good player had he played 4 years with RM.

[Bizziken]

I also recall Manning's prospect list of schools not being that impressive but we do operate on the "diamonds in the rough" theory, right? Plus, given Biancrdi's one year stint on Rick's bench, I am not so sure he can be counted on as an "unbiased" source for counter evaluations.

According to Scout, Manning was offered schollies from George Mason, Virginia Tech, Richmond, and William & Mary...He also garnered interest from Penn State...

Not great, but it's not terrible either...

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Willie will get it together and play next year. It seems to me from some comments that Willie has grown up quite a bit these last few months. He'll get all the help he needs academically as long as he puts in the effort himself, he'll be fine.

At least you are optimistic

[billiken_roy]

Btw ... Bryce would have been used much differently and been a good player had he played 4 years with RM.

sorry skip, i dont agree with this. as soft as husak was, he would have never lasted four years with rickma.

[slufanskip]

sorry skip, i dont agree with this. as soft as husak was, he would have never lasted four years with rickma.

soft as in how? mentally? physically?

[kmbilliken]

Everyone RM has brought in had a shot at eventually being a player. I assume Manning will be the same, but our true center prospects are always projects to some degree. Husak and David King were total projects that never panned out. Heinrich and Vouyukas came in able get some immediate playing time and panned out well. If he could be another Heinrich I would be satisfied.

[Clock_Tower]

Correct, I am not Nate. I am a contributor to BillikenReport.com

If you are not Nate, then step out from under Nate's skirt and make your point on your own. You may have a ton of basketball knowledge and insight or you may have none. What do you got? Normally, unknown, non-Billiken fans who come on this Board and pass along such undocumented statements are referred to as trolls.

BTW, Nate must be real proud of you for your contributions to this Board. What's next? A plea to subscribe to BillikenReport to find out the scout's name and more information?

[dlarry]

THe stats arent sexy but as they say "you cant teach height" and this kids got that.

Most of the time 7 footers averaging 25-30 points and 15-20 rebounds in HS are 1 and done anyway. And I dont see many kids planning on 1 year of college picking SLU to get the exposure they want.

I dont know how this kid will do and nobody else does either. But at the very least I would hope he can grab a lot of boards and block a lot of shots.

[thetorch]

If you are not Nate, then step out from under Nate's skirt and make your point on your own.

You are insulting both the writers at Billiken report now. Why should they ever post here again after this. And he did do this, other people including yourself insinuated he was impersonating Nate for some reason. I don't think it is out of line for a poster who works for Billiken Report to have the username BW(Initials)BillikenReport.

You may have a ton of basketball knowledge and insight or you may have none. What do you got?

See for yourself, this poster writes stories every week that are linked on the first page of the board.

Normally, unknown, non-Billiken fans who come on this Board and pass along such undocumented statements are referred to as trolls.

That's great, except he is none of these. He's known, he writes for Billiken report, and the statements were documented on his twitter feed. He was doing the board a service by passing along info he had received that no one else on this board would have ever gotten and is being lynched for it. You are the one trolling actually.

BTW, Nate must be real proud of you for your contributions to this Board. What's next? A plea to subscribe to BillikenReport to find out the scout's name and more information?

I hope this board is proud of this thread. Nate rarely posts here anymore and another contributor on that site is now run off. In their absence there will be much less analysis and information on games and recruiting on this site, but the vitriol will certainly increase.

[Clock_Tower]

You are insulting both the writers at Billiken report now. Why should they ever post here again after this. And he did do this, other people including yourself insinuated he was impersonating Nate for some reason. I don't think it is out of line for a poster who works for Billiken Report to have the username BW(Initials)BillikenReport.

See for yourself, this poster writes stories every week that are linked on the first page of the board.

That's great, except he is none of these. He's known, he writes for Billiken report, and the statements were documented on his twitter feed. He was doing the board a service by passing along info he had received that no one else on this board would have ever gotten and is being lynched for it. You are the one trolling actually.

I hope this board is proud of this thread. Nate rarely posts here anymore and another contributor on that site is now run off. In their absence there will be much less analysis and information on games and recruiting on this site, but the vitriol will certainly increase.

Torch. Don't get your panties in a wad. If you want to read Nate's scoups, then go for it. But face facts. Nate has done more to stiffle discussion than to add to it.

[GoBills]

Ha! I mentioned something about the lack of talent inside and he said it didn't seem to matter. Apparently he's just not that good.

It is good that there are different perspectives and we shouldn't expect everything to be sugar-coated Billiken blue, however, there are a few things about some of the comments that bother me. The one I bolded for example. You seem to be saying this as fact, based on the opinion of one scout. As you pointed out earlier, Biancardi, plus Majerus and staff clearly have a different opinion. It is too soon to say which one is right. Also, the approach that you are taking that you need to set the record straight because he is highly rated or some people think he will make an immediate impact - I just don't see it. Most of the comments I have read by Bills fans are that he is more of a developmental player, who will likely need some time. I think we get it. I hope you continue to post and it is good to hear one scout's opinion, but don't get your feelings hurt if some people will disagree.

[Clock_Tower]

It is good that there are different perspectives and we shouldn't expect everything to be sugar-coated Billiken blue, however, there are a few things about some of the comments that bother me. The one I bolded for example. You seem to be saying this as fact, based on the opinion of one scout. As you pointed out earlier, Biancardi, plus Majerus and staff clearly have a different opinion. It is too soon to say which one is right. Also, the approach that you are taking that you need to set the record straight because he is highly rated or some people think he will make an immediate impact - I just don't see it. Most of the comments I have read by Bills fans are that he is more of a developmental player, who will likely need some time. I think we get it. I hope you continue to post and it is good to hear one scout's opinion, but don't get your feelings hurt if some people will disagree.

GoBills. Agree 100%. What give's BW the right to come on this Board and trash our new 17 year old recruit before he even finishes his Senior year in highschool? BW has not seen Manning play. Instead, he writes that Manning some unnamed expert thinks Manning is just not that good, that he is really a low-level D1 recruit and that he will transfer. WOW!! If he has the reputation and credential Torch indicates, then should he also be more responsible in his reporting. Maybe watch the kid play, talk to his coaches, talk with other who coached against him, talk with local reporters, talk with other experts. Even if BW turns out to be correct, I still say such post is irresponsible. And didn't this Board frown upon threads discussing the possiblity (in general terms based upon RM's track record and not naming individual names b/c they could/should transfer) that current players could transfer.

And further, without any personal observation or real investigation, BW's comments actually contradict Nate's own story from a month ago writing about Manning impressed Paul Biancardi (former D1 head coach (Wright State), former lead Assistant/Recruiter (Ohio State) and former SLU assistant. Oh I get it. Biancardi, RM, the other schools to offer... they are all wrong.

Oh, and again, I am sorry. Forgot that some want me to look the other way, allow our recruit to be trashed on this Board before he even finishes his Senior year in highschool much less sets foot on Frost Campus all so that we don't offend Nate b/c he then might not give this Board a free tip/post. Get real.

[thetorch]

Torch. Don't get your panties in a wad. If you want to read Nate's scoups, then go for it. But face facts. Nate has done more to stiffle discussion than to add to it.

You want to debate that is fine. Don't insult, you'll lose that battle of wits in a landslide.