billikenfan05 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I'm speechless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Leave The U outta this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Just to be clear on this, I feel very badly for this girl. Like many people, she made a very bad decision after having a few drinks. However, she and her parents made a far worse decision to pursue this with the only purpose, as far as I can tell, of making the girl feel better about what she chose to do that night. The University was complicit in this action. For that, I cannot easily forgive the people at SLU who participated in this decision. How they can feel that justice was served in this case is beyond my power of comprehension, especially after reading the recently released transcript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 As long as they kick every single person who has had sex in a dorm out, I'm fine with the decision. on a more serious note, it's not just as simple as saying no. she could have been too scared to do anything, but it seems to me like she had every chance to leave if she wanted. i guess slu didn't find this as sexual assault if you ask me. it goes back to i don't think they would ever be able to come back if it was sexual assault that they were accused for. i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. i didn't mean to come across as not caring, i care for the girl, i just feel like it was unfair on so many levels to so many people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Not exonerating the woman in the least (she was stupid!), but it is going to be hard for me to root for KM if/when he returns. I am glad that WR, JJ, and JS are gone. Oh yes, we might lose more games this year, but I would rather support a team I respect (albeit somewhat out of ignorance) than root for a team led by people who have behaved very improperly. To even consider taking advantage of a woman by having multiple men use her (which they did) is inexcusable in my opinion. You should get off your high horse here. What was most telling was that this young lady and KM were swapping texts two weeks before the big night. Seems to indicate she was interested in pursuing something with KM. Granted, the alcohol probably pushed the whole thing a little further than she had planned. But in the end she sounded like a willing participant with KM. Now KM should be admonished for treating her with a lack of respect by telling Smiff, "your turn." or whatever. He defintely needs to write a letter of apology. It was the Smiff/young lady encounter that seems to have sent the whole evening into a tailspin and crossing a line that shouldn't have been crossed. It seems to me when Smiff started pusing it she had a chance to yell something or just get up, flip KM the bird, call him an a-hole, and leave. But according to RFT she protested only to him and rather mildly. I mean if she started screaming do you think these guys would have just sat there? Not hard to imagine at that point she started to have regrets about the whole deal. She was expecting a toss in the hay w/ a guy she seemed to like, then realized KM wasn't respecting her, which he didn't. Did KM treat her like a lady? No, and you can bet his mother's letting him know it. He made a mistake. A classless and sleazy mistake if you will. But he didn't commit a crime, except for putting that used condom in his pants pocket which is not a crime but real disgusting.. I'm going to hold to my belief this woman realized she'd made a huge mistake in judgement and was going to have trouble looking herself in the mirror and facing the friends that left her. Soooo, she creates a story that will somewhat exonerate her from her excercising her own poor judgement. My guess is the STLPD and the PA came to the same conclusion and therefore, did not charge the players with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. As kinky as that sounds, I don't think the evidence supports that there was ever a '4 on 1' sexual encounter...The police report mentions NOTHING about multiple partners at one time. Willie seemingly did admit to watching, which is deplorable, but to suggest that this was a '4 on 1' is bending the facts... I don't think anybody is suggesting that this incident is 'no big deal'. It IS a big deal, but when compared to what it COULD have been, this, in my opinion, wasn't as contemptible. When I first heard that multiple SLU basketball players were accused of sexual assault, I immediately thought of the players forcibly holding down and raping a female student. But this was obviously not the case. I would have been in favor of suspending the players for a few games, and requiring them to do community service...but to initially kick them out of school, imo, was a little overboard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. C'mon, Broy, that's not true. I don't hink anyone here would be bothered by them being kicked out if the girl was held against her will and assaulted. The facts don't support this is what happened. It seems clear to most of us this was a night of extreme regret by a young woman who knew she did something really ugly and had to come up with something to restore her self esteem. Which one of us has never done something we're not real proud of and wished had never happened or could be undone somehow? My guess. None of us. So she comes up with a story rather than just go to confession and swear off vodka. Who knows in her own mind she may very well believe she was attacked and an unwilling participant. The stories don't make it sound that way. To think that SLU can achieve a 100% snow white wholly moralistic student body is a pipe dream. About as crazy as thinking Catholic Priests don't assault young boys. It happens. This happened. It's not the institution's fault. It's human behavior, which inevitably results in things that disgust all of us. This is a disgusting story. And all of the participants have now been punished. But too continually express feelings that SLU's above all this is acting totally out of touch with the real world. SLU fans are a little different than those schools you mentioned but not much. We all want a winner. But for you to imply that the majority of UC or Mizzery fans would be willing to look the other way on a real sexual assult is pure bs. Most of those people hold the same values as you and I. They would be disgusted. They would also be up in arms if two of their best players were dealt an over the top punishment that didn't fit the so called crime or breach of student contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I still believe that any high profile student at any University should do everything they can to fly under the radar and not bring any unnecessary negative attention to themselves. If I read the article right, there was another player at the apartment that left right away - smart move. There may be sex in dorm rooms all over the country and many college athletes may engage in this stuff, but there are also many college athletes who avoid these types of situations out of fear for what could happen. If anyone thinks that the Athletic Department and the coaching staff never say anything about how to act off the court, they are naive. They beat this in the guy's heads. RM has said numerous times before how he talks to his players about being smart off the court. They may not have done anything illegal, but clearly they had to know they probably should be smart about their actions and potential actions. Certainly the player that left did. Now, that being said, as much as I care about the girl involved I also want to say to her, "What the hell were you thinking?????" She goes back to an apartment in the middle of the night as the only female????? The report says she was touching KM and kissing his neck on the way back. What did she think they were just going to play Yahtzee when they got back there? Give me a break. All girls know the athletes are the "players" on campus. I also don't buy the fact the she couldn't just stand up and leave. Even if there was some verbal resistance, she could have left the minute she was uncomfortable and didn't. The whole situation is very sad and some lives were perhaps changed forever simply because VERY BAD decisions were made that night and not all those BAD decisions were made just by our players that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history.It's not the greed to win that makes us feel this is wrong. It's that the punishment doesn't fit the "crime". Even though you think the sex that they had was disgusting, it was very clear from the transcript and the girls own statements that she was free to quit at any time. Hell, she even helped get them ready. I for one don't think a government, a school, or anyone else should have the right to govern what we do privately in our bedrooms. It's a bigger issue than one case of 3 people having sex. SLU is the one that exhibited greed, by allowing the money tree to dictate their actions. Not only that in the bigger picture SLU is charged with educating young men and women on how to live their lives and the way they handled this instance all the way up to the laughable student court was a miserable failure. THis should have been handled by a statement condeming their actions and stating that it isn't proper behavior for young men or women at SLU or anywhere else. However, it is clear that no sexual assault was committed. SLU shpuld have handled the matter in house and been done with it. The way it stands now, almost every person I know believes the boys raped some girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I'm still not done. While we are allowing a school to dtermine that 3 on 1 or a train is wrong, where do we stop? Isn't that something that should be decided on a personal basis? This is America isn't it? What's next and who gets to decide if that nurse's costume your wife wears to spice things up is wrong? How about different positions, who decides what is acceptable there? The only question is "was it consentual" if the answer to that is yes, and it certainly appears it was than imo they did nothing wrong that a university or basketball coach has any business disciplining them for. What is right and wrong in these matters is a personal and possibly a parental matter. And for those who'll say she initially said no to KM and he talked her into it. Seriously, think back to your first time, how many of you had to persuade your girlfriend or (in Jimbo's case your 11th grade sex ed teacher) to say yes. Really, you've never had a girl say no and you said "come on, we're ready" or "but, I love you, don't you love me too" or whatever line you thought would work. How about you Roy ... did you ever "persuade" a girl? Were you married? Where does the moral line stop and start and who gets to lay it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showthebill Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 all white jury + majority women = Kwa and Willie had no chance in the world of getting off free Bonus Points: Never trust a girl who buys a thong from Target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. Translation: Everything should think just like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showthebill Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 i too hope that saint louis university kicks out the participants of every four on one sexual encounter that occurs at saint louis university. to casually act as though this is no big deal for for anyone let alone college age students disgusts me. the reaction of this board surprises me to no end. and it only proves that when it comes down to it, the greed and want to "just win" baby supersedes ethics for the majority of sports fans. i naively thought that saint louis university fans were different. obviously now i see i was dead wrong. we are no different as a fan base than unlv's, cincy, mi$$ouri's or any other black hat fan base in sports history. Taking this approach, then I guess we set the precedent that we can kick out any male who has sex with a girl if after the fact she decides she didn't want to have sex even, though she put the condom on that guy. Also, taking your approach we should kick out that guys roommate because he didn't stop them from having sex. Might as well cut SLU down to about 3000 students Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 The only two men who have never had to persuade women to have sex with them are Rammer and Matt Dickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 The only two men who have never had to persuade women to have sex with them are Rammer and Matt Dickey.Don't forget John Stamos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 why don't we close this thread it perpetuates a low point in Billiken basketball history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 And for those who'll say she initially said no to KM and he talked her into it. Seriously, think back to your first time, how many of you had to persuade your girlfriend or (in Jimbo's case your 11th grade sex ed teacher) to say yes. Really, you've never had a girl say no and you said "come on, we're ready" or "but, I love you, don't you love me too" or whatever line you thought would work. I was going to say yesterday, as Daniel Tosh so eloquently puts it in a stand-up routine of his (and I'm paraphrasing): "No doesn't always mean no. If every guy stopped at the first no, no one would ever get laid. No means work the neck, work the nipples, try back in five minutes. My dad didn't teach me to be a quitter. Get back in there and give 'er hell!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I'm still not done. While we are allowing a school to dtermine that 3 on 1 or a train is wrong, where do we stop? Isn't that something that should be decided on a personal basis? This is America isn't it? What's next and who gets to decide if that nurse's costume your wife wears to spice things up is wrong? How about different positions, who decides what is acceptable there? The only question is "was it consentual" if the answer to that is yes, and it certainly appears it was than imo they did nothing wrong that a university or basketball coach has any business disciplining them for. What is right and wrong in these matters is a personal and possibly a parental matter. And for those who'll say she initially said no to KM and he talked her into it. Seriously, think back to your first time, how many of you had to persuade your girlfriend or (in Jimbo's case your 11th grade sex ed teacher) to say yes. Really, you've never had a girl say no and you said "come on, we're ready" or "but, I love you, don't you love me too" or whatever line you thought would work. How about you Roy ... did you ever "persuade" a girl? Were you married? Where does the moral line stop and start and who gets to lay it down? skip, personally, i have never and i dont know anyone that has ever participated in a 4 on 1 sexual encounter. the thought of it actually sickens me that our morals have declined to that level that your only concern is whether it was a tie her down rape or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slubilliken09 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I was going to say yesterday, as Daniel Tosh so eloquently puts it in a stand-up routine of his (and I'm paraphrasing): "No doesn't always mean no. If every guy stopped at the first no, no one would ever get laid. No means work the neck, work the nipples, try back in five minutes. My dad didn't teach me to be a quitter. Get back in there and give 'er hell!" She wouldn't wear a skirt if she didn't wanna get f***ered. Daniel Tosh ftw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 skip, personally, i have never and i dont know anyone that has ever participated in a 4 on 1 sexual encounter. the thought of it actually sickens me that our morals have declined to that level that your only concern is whether it was a tie her down rape or not.People have been having orgies since before America was founded Roy. This isn't a new invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffinMH Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Dude, she could have left at any point. How can you say WR got off easy? According to this, he had little to nothing to do with the entire thing, other than be in the same apt. They may have violated your moral police statutes, but all signs point to the girl being an active participant. If you were involved with something like this, would you be proud of yourself? Would you tell you parents about it? Mitchell was ok right up to the point when he came out of the room. Once he "nodded" to the next guy to go in, then he broke the honor code. There was nothing criminal that went on, therefore the DA did not prosecute. But think about it, why would he do what he did? Do you really beleive it is ethical to try to take turns with a girl you brought to your place? I think there girl should have been expelled as well. Even if she wanted to do everything they did, it does not make it right. AND when you are at a Catholic Jesuit school, you most definitley should be expelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 If you were involved with something like this, would you be proud of yourself? Would you tell you parents about it? Mitchell was ok right up to the point when he came out of the room. Once he "nodded" to the next guy to go in, then he broke the honor code. There was nothing criminal that went on, therefore the DA did not prosecute. But think about it, why would he do what he did? Do you really beleive it is ethical to try to take turns with a girl you brought to your place? I think there girl should have been expelled as well. Even if she wanted to do everything they did, it does not make it right. AND when you are at a Catholic Jesuit school, you most definitley should be expelled.What honor code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 People have been having orgies since before America was founded Roy. This isn't a new invention. So I guess SLU is just supposed to ignore this kind of behavior by its students when it becomes a big media story in town? Just throw out the student code of conduct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 If you were involved with something like this, would you be proud of yourself? Would you tell you parents about it? Mitchell was ok right up to the point when he came out of the room. Once he "nodded" to the next guy to go in, then he broke the honor code. There was nothing criminal that went on, therefore the DA did not prosecute. But think about it, why would he do what he did? Do you really beleive it is ethical to try to take turns with a girl you brought to your place? I think there girl should have been expelled as well. Even if she wanted to do everything they did, it does not make it right. AND when you are at a Catholic Jesuit school, you most definitley should be expelled.Please, lets not throw the Catholic Jesuit school thing out there. Do you think every student who comes would agree to uphold the Jesuit ideology? It wasn't that important when their head basketball coach made public statements very contrary to the Jesuit principles. Oh yea, he'll make em a bunch of dough, it's of course different in that case. Let in only Jesuits who agree to Jesuit principles and you have a case. Don't you think it's wrong to open your doors to people in all walks of life with all sorts of different beliefs and morals and then condemn them when their beliefs and morals aren't the same as yours. What about gay people ... should they be expelled? You know where the thingy goes when they do it, don't you. Is that morally exceptable to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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