STLMPD Police Report

[JeffinMH]

What honor code?

It has been a long time but when the school expells you in this situation, even if there are no formal charges from the city, it is obvious that SLU has some code of conduct, honor code, or whatever they want to call it. Why else would they be thrown out? It is a CATHOLIC school. This isn't the University of Miami or some other state school. I will root for the Billikens no matter who is on the team. I think Michell can make a mends and get his Basketball career back on track (if he wants a career), but he must apologize to the school and his fellow students. The female involved should apologize as well. Alchohol cannot be and should not be an excuse.

[slufanskip]

skip, personally, i have never and i dont know anyone that has ever participated in a 4 on 1 sexual encounter. the thought of it actually sickens me that our morals have declined to that level that your only concern is whether it was a tie her down rape or not.

yes you do, I hope we can still be friends.

[kshoe]

So I guess SLU is just supposed to ignore this kind of behavior by its students when it becomes a big media story in town? Just throw out the student code of conduct?

Pretty sure that's exactly what they did when they allowed a lawyer into the proceedings despite it explicitly not being allowed...

[slufanskip]

skip, personally, i have never and i dont know anyone that has ever participated in a 4 on 1 sexual encounter. the thought of it actually sickens me that our morals have declined to that level that your only concern is whether it was a tie her down rape or not.

were you married the 1st time you had sex? If no, would it have been right if SLU decided at that time the line was drawn at premarital sex and expelled you? There are people who believe and I'm sure the Catholic Church believes premarital sex is a sin.

[JMM28]

If you were involved with something like this, would you be proud of yourself? Would you tell you parents about it? Mitchell was ok right up to the point when he came out of the room. Once he "nodded" to the next guy to go in, then he broke the honor code. There was nothing criminal that went on, therefore the DA did not prosecute. But think about it, why would he do what he did? Do you really beleive it is ethical to try to take turns with a girl you brought to your place? I think there girl should have been expelled as well. Even if she wanted to do everything they did, it does not make it right. AND when you are at a Catholic Jesuit school, you most definitley should be expelled.

I'd like to dedicate this song to Larry Biondi, Chris May lack of testicular fortitude and institutional strength, Gay Fillumps, Unnamed Accuser, Jon Smifs Erectile Disfunction, Justin Jordan's Carlton-esque physique, Kwamain Mitchell's leadership skills, The entire UNA club on campus, caitlyn the social worker wannabe (how smart are you! go to a school, pay 40k a year, to make 20k a year! oh yeah and you're not a cop, you're an idiot, leave cop work to cops.), Laclede Street Bar and Grill(has always been a place thats not worth the trouble of its existence), Grand Forrest Apartments, any member of the kangaroo court, and most especially John Cook, you tanning bed loving egomaniac. I hope Willie and anyone else wronged in the situation takes SLU's ass to the cleaners. It sounds like Willie has a legit gripe.

[billiken_roy]

were you married the 1st time you had sex? If no, would it have been right if SLU decided at that time the line was drawn at premarital sex and expelled you? There are people who believe and I'm sure the Catholic Church believes premarital sex is a sin.

you arent even in the same ballpark. your comparisons are ridiculous. a night between kwamain and say his fiancee by themselves after an evening out is not even the same as a planned ###### with absolutely no emotional attachment and concern for the other party. the fact you are trying to make the act so insignificant is horrible skip.

[brianstl]

Pretty sure that's exactly what they did when they allowed a lawyer into the proceedings despite it explicitly not being allowed...

You won't find me defending that.

I just don't know what people think a Catholic school was going to do when a story like this becomes public and with the fact they know the police report is going to become public. The kind of behavior that all the parties agreed occured is not the image SLU wants in people's mind without there being some kind of stiff punishment attached. Many people send or encourage their kids to go to SLU because it is a Catholic school where they expect certain kinds of behavior not to be tolerated. That is a lot more important to many more people than the basketball program is.

[JMM28]

you arent even in the same ballpark. your comparisons are ridiculous. a night between kwamain and say his fiancee by themselves after an evening out is not even the same as a planned ###### with absolutely no emotional attachment and concern for the other party. the fact you are trying to make the act so insignificant is horrible skip.

Well...if we are just talking about college kids hooking up on their own free will...thats a matter of choice, not really morals or law. The "you cant have sex until you're married" and abstinence only education is why we have a lot of the baby mama drama and baby daddy disappearances....

[slubilliken09]

You won't find me defending that.

I just don't know what people think a Catholic school was going to do when a story like this becomes public and with the fact they know the police report is going to become public. The kind of behavior that all the parties agreed occured is not the image SLU wants in people's mind without there being some kind of stiff punishment attached. Many people send or encourage their kids to go to SLU because it is a Catholic school where they expect certain kinds of behavior not to be tolerated. That is a lot more important to many more people than the basketball program is.

I can certainly see both sides. SLU had to do something in order to defend its image-you are exactly correct.

With this being a predominantly sports-centered board, the most common thought is about what the consequences of a certain action are and, more importantly, how will it affect the basketball team's success?

Just a disappointing situation on all sides.

[JMM28]

You won't find me defending that.

I just don't know what people think a Catholic school was going to do when a story like this becomes public and with the fact they know the police report is going to become public. The kind of behavior that all the parties agreed occured is not the image SLU wants in people's mind without there being some kind of stiff punishment attached. Many people send or encourage their kids to go to SLU because it is a Catholic school where they expect certain kinds of behavior not to be tolerated. That is a lot more important to many more people than the basketball program is.

And let us not forget, SLU is not a Catholic school. So the Catholic argument does not hold any sort of water. During the TIF district issue when building the arena, SLU, Larry, etc. all stated that they were a secular institution guided by a board of lay people from various creeds.

[billikendave]

You won't find me defending that.

I just don't know what people think a Catholic school was going to do when a story like this becomes public and with the fact they know the police report is going to become public. The kind of behavior that all the parties agreed occured is not the image SLU wants in people's mind without there being some kind of stiff punishment attached. Many people send or encourage their kids to go to SLU because it is a Catholic school where they expect certain kinds of behavior not to be tolerated. That is a lot more important to many more people than the basketball program is.

Lets be honest. If SLU wanted to stand on principle and say this type of behavior is never tolerated at SLU and doesn't uphold the Catholic values and image that the school wants, all four of them would be expelled -- PERMANENTLY. THAT is principle. If they did that, I would disagree but could respect that.

What happened? A year suspension reduced to 1/2 a semester after embarrassingly botching the process. By doing so, SLU has "tolerated" this behavior.

Its the old joke... A man asks a woman if she'll sleep with him for $1 million. She reluctantly says yes. He asks if she'd sleep with him for $1. She is offended and says "what kind of woman do you think I am?" He responds, "we've established what kind of woman you are... we're just negotiating price."

So please stop the sanctimonious crap that SLU has upheld some principles by what they did here.

[Bizziken]

skip, personally, i have never and i dont know anyone that has ever participated in a 4 on 1 sexual encounter. the thought of it actually sickens me that our morals have declined to that level that your only concern is whether it was a tie her down rape or not.

Again, it wasn't a 4 on 1 sexual encounter...it was consecutive 1 on 1 sexual encounters, with Willie watching one of them...there is a sizable distinction...

IF it is determined that the girl gave uncoerced consent, whatever sexual encounters she has is up to her....you may think it is disgusting, against God, deplorable, whatever...but as long as consent is given, regardless of personal opinions, there should be no significant punishments...

And to admonish people in the SLU community for not conforming to a personal opinion is downright haughty and condescending...

[billiken_roy]

Again, it wasn't a 4 on 1 sexual encounter...it was consecutive 1 on 1 sexual encounters, with Willie watching one of them...there is a sizable distinction...

IF it is determined that the girl gave uncoerced consent, whatever sexual encounters she has is up to her....you may think it is disgusting, against God, deplorable, whatever...but as long as consent is given, regardless of personal opinions, there should be no significant punishments...

And to admonish people in the SLU community for not conforming to a personal opinion is downright haughty and condescending...

damn right i look down on you for not thinking this was a disgusting act. if you think i am haughty and condescending i couldnt care less.

so you somehow think standing in line makes it ok? wow.

[Bizziken]

I have no problem punishing the players in some capacity, but let's remember, these kids were recruited to come to SLU to play basketball, not to espouse the Catholic faith...

General conformity to SLUs values should be enforced, and if consent was given, I wouldn't necessarily consider what happened to be a severely punishable offense...scumbaggish, gross, disrespectful- absolutely! But then again, In my time at SLU I witnessed a lot of activities (non-sexual) that could be considered questionable...

[slufanskip]

you arent even in the same ballpark. your comparisons are ridiculous. a night between kwamain and say his fiancee by themselves after an evening out is not even the same as a planned ###### with absolutely no emotional attachment and concern for the other party. the fact you are trying to make the act so insignificant is horrible skip.

In your moral compass a night of sex between Kwamain and his fiancee by themselves isn't that bad. I bet I can find you millions of people who believe it is if they aren't married. How about the late night bar pick-up with sex at the end?

You don't get it, you are stuck on your moral code and clearly believe everyone who doesn't believe as you do is wrong.

Again, would it be wrong if the school you went to expelled you for having pre-marital sex? It's a simple question, would it be wrong?

Again, how about gay people? Is what they do in their bedrooms morally wrong?

I'll ask again who gets to draw the line? Is it you who would say pre-marital sex doesn't get you expelled, but a train does, or is it the guy who runs the local partner swap meet, or is the religious zealot that believes only married missionary sex for the purpose of creation?

[billiken_roy]

In your moral compass a night of sex between Kwamain and his fiancee by themselves isn't that bad. I bet I can find you millions of people who believe it is if they aren't married. How about the late night bar pick-up with sex at the end?

You don't get it, you are stuck on your moral code and clearly believe everyone who doesn't believe as you do is wrong.

Again, would it be wrong if the school you went to expelled you for having pre-marital sex? It's a simple question, would it be wrong?

Again, how about gay people? Is what they do in their bedrooms morally wrong?

I'll ask again who gets to draw the line? Is it you who would say pre-marital sex doesn't get you expelled, but a train does, or is it the guy who runs the local partner swap meet, or is the religious zealot that believes only married missionary sex for the purpose of creation?

the problem isnt "where do you draw the line?" that would infer this event was somehow in a gray area or close to the line. in my view, this is far on the other side of the line and i think slu thinks the same way.

[NH]

the problem isnt "where do you draw the line?" that would infer this event was somehow in a gray area or close to the line. in my view, this is far on the other side of the line and i think slu thinks the same way.

1. You would be surprised how often things like this happen not only at the college level, but also the high school level.

2. The point is, you cannot apply your standard of morals to a decision like this. If you want to judge those guys, you have the right. But you cannot say they deserve to be expelled for having sex with a girl. What they did might not be right under Catholic teaching, Mormon teaching, Roy teaching, NH teaching, Skip teaching, anybody else teaching, but it is not legally wrong and as far as I know the school doesn't have a rule saying you cannot have consensual sex with other students.

And in absolutely no way was it 4 vs. 1. She only even had sex/preformed sexual acts on two people and none of the 4 people in the apartment forced her to do anything. Also, she wasn't drunk and she was sending text messages.

[Box and Won]

It is a CATHOLIC school. This isn't the University of Miami or some other state school. I will root for the Billikens no matter who is on the team. I think Michell can make a mends and get his Basketball career back on track (if he wants a career), but he must apologize to the school and his fellow students. The female involved should apologize as well. Alchohol cannot be and should not be an excuse.

I get tired of sanctimonious b.s. like this. Sometimes it's easy for me to understand why so many non-Catholics find us Catholics to be so irritating.

First of all, Miami is a private school, one ranked quite a bit higher than our alma mater. Miami (OH) is a state school, but it is also more highly regarded academically than SLU.

What should the girl apologize for? Being a cooze?

Why should Kwamain apologize to the school and his fellow students? It's between him and the cooze.

[jbizzle09]

the problem isnt "where do you draw the line?" that would infer this event was somehow in a gray area or close to the line. in my view, this is far on the other side of the line and i think slu thinks the same way.

This is like Potter Stewart saying that he can't define pornography but he knows it when he sees it.

[slufanskip]

the problem isnt "where do you draw the line?" that would infer this event was somehow in a gray area or close to the line. in my view, this is far on the other side of the line and i think slu thinks the same way.

and do you think your view should be the view that we all live by? It's your view, you live by it, that's great. But how about we let other people decide what is and isn't acceptable to them in their own private lives that have no bearing upon anyone but the participants. I believe you should be able to set your own moral compass, it's too bad you don't believe I have the same right.

[Bizziken]

so you somehow think standing in line makes it ok? wow.

No...I didn't say that. I did say that there is a distinction between 4 guys having sex with a girl at the same time, and 2 consecutive sexual encounters...both are disgusting, but additional consent, duress, and force issues are raised when there are 4 men simultaneously having a sexual encounter with 1 woman...

[billiken_roy]

No...I didn't say that. I did say that there is a distinction between 4 guys having sex with a girl at the same time, and 2 consecutive sexual encounters...both are disgusting, but additional consent, duress, and force issues are raised when there are 4 men simultaneously having a sexual encounter with 1 woman...

you mean kind of like getting poked in the eye with a sharp stick or hit upside the head with a rock? neither are good.

[BIG BILL FAN]

You won't find me defending that.

I just don't know what people think a Catholic school was going to do when a story like this becomes public and with the fact they know the police report is going to become public. The kind of behavior that all the parties agreed occured is not the image SLU wants in people's mind without there being some kind of stiff punishment attached. Many people send or encourage their kids to go to SLU because it is a Catholic school where they expect certain kinds of behavior not to be tolerated. That is a lot more important to many more people than the basketball program is.

Fortunately, you good Catholics don't object to excessive drinking. I think some on this board (not talking about you brian), sit up on their own little pedestal, and find fault with everyone else's deeds but their own.

[slufan13]

I guess SLU suspended them for having bad morals. No legal charges were filed because nothing illegal happened I assume. These kids were punished for, in SLU's eyes, having bad morals. Is that fair? Some will say yes. Some will say no. No one will win the argument.

one question for Roy.....should willie have received the same punishment?

[billiken_roy]

I guess SLU suspended them for having bad morals. No legal charges were filed because nothing illegal happened I assume. These kids were punished for, in SLU's eyes, having bad morals. Is that fair? Some will say yes. Some will say no. No one will win the argument.

one question for Roy.....should willie have received the same punishment?

willie is in more trouble than just "the incident". my guess is that willie was a more sure expulsion than Mitchell with multiple issues over the last year. i personally wouldnt have willie reed on the team ever again considering his complete list of issues and problems.