Bizziken Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Well Im a convicted rapist and I can tell you from my experinces that what took place that night was not rape. Ive taken part in hundreds of non-consenual sex acts and this does not fit the profile. Im not really a rapist just throwing out a pointless defense like all the "church ladies,clinical psychologist, and "experts" KNOCKOUT!!!! And the award for post of the year goes to......dlarry!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Well Im a convicted rapist and I can tell you from my experinces that what took place that night was not rape. Ive taken part in hundreds of non-consenual sex acts and this does not fit the profile. Im not really a rapist just throwing out a pointless defense like all the "church ladies,clinical psychologist, and "experts" HAHAHAH Everyone in the library now hates me for laughing really loud...Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 KNOCKOUT!!!! And the award for post of the year goes to......dlarry!!!! I concur! This was pretty great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I'm with you on this post. Debate, argue, whatever, all you want ... but to attack Roy personally for his beliefs is wrong. One of the reasons Roy and I can go back and forth all day on many issues (Andrew Jones never was the defensive cf'er Jimmy was) and disagree strongly but still remain friends is because it doesn't turn personal (wish I could say the same for my debates with others though) I don't agree with Roy and he clearly doesn't agree with me, however, I do believe he isn't on some kind of mission. He strongly believes how he feels is right. And in my book that's ok ... wrong, but ok. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is my first post on the forum; have to say that I joined just to reply to these threads and issues but have been a Billiken fan since the mid-1980's and became season ticket holder last year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by what is in the police report. I am an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist who has worked with rape survivors and with persons who have assaulted others. I can say in my professional opinion that it was sexual assault; both by KM and JS. Although WR did not sexually assault her, he was a witness to a crime and did nothing to help the victim; he watched her be assaulted. That does justify the university action against him. How would you feel about a person who stood by and enjoyed watching you be assaulted by someone else? It does not matter that she willingly kissed or got into bed with KM or flirted with him earlier in the night. A person can say stop at any time or point which she did. It's clear from the police report that she was afraid and intimidated. Putting on a condom does not equal consent. This is not a case of her regretting things afterwards. So what if she made bad decisions - does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity! Where have you been. Thank god you finally showed up. We have been waiting on an "expert" to distill for us exactly happened. Seriously, your "expert" judgment is absurd. Thankfully the hacks in the STL Prosecutor's office got this one right and chose not to ruin these men's lives based on the allegations of this "victim." At no point does the she provide facts to support a rape or a sexual assault. It's evident she regretted her actions but her statement as to her own actions suggest she was a willing participant. She was not restrained, threatened, drugged, etc. There is no disputing she was capable of consent. And when she withheld that consent when JJ tried to climb aboard, the train came to an abrupt halt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is my first post on the forum; have to say that I joined just to reply to these threads and issues but have been a Billiken fan since the mid-1980's and became season ticket holder last year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by what is in the police report. I am an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist who has worked with rape survivors and with persons who have assaulted others. I can say in my professional opinion that it was sexual assault; both by KM and JS. Although WR did not sexually assault her, he was a witness to a crime and did nothing to help the victim; he watched her be assaulted. That does justify the university action against him. How would you feel about a person who stood by and enjoyed watching you be assaulted by someone else? It does not matter that she willingly kissed or got into bed with KM or flirted with him earlier in the night. A person can say stop at any time or point which she did. It's clear from the police report that she was afraid and intimidated. Putting on a condom does not equal consent. This is not a case of her regretting things afterwards. So what if she made bad decisions - does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity! First of all, clinical psychologists don't determine whether or not a crime has been committed. That's a legal issue and the prosecutors determined no crime had been committed. I know you feel compelled to defend the girl after other posters claim no crime was committed but rendering a medical opinion in this case based on the police report crosses the line. Medical opinions should not be issued third-hand by reading a police report without personally interviewing the alleged victim and gathering further evidence. American Psychological Association's (APA) Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, Section 9.01 b. Bases for Assessments-- [P]sychologists provide opinions of the psychological characteristics of individuals only after they have conducted an examination of the individuals adequate to support their statements or conclusions. http://www.apa.org/ethics/code/index.aspx?item=5#204 >>does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity!<< Both sides made stupid decisions. That's the point. She bares part of the blame. The list of bad decisions she made that night is long starting with approaching a player she didn't really know at 3:00 a.m. outside a bar and going back to his apartment. Her actions appear in the report to be quite consensual up to the point JS entered the room and he's gone from the university. I think everyone would have been fine after reading the report if JS had been suspended or expelled. I would think most people after reading the report are fine with KM getting suspended for a semester. That said, I will personally welcome Kwamain back with open arms after he serves his suspension. I think he made a bad choice. He's served his punishment and it will be time for him to continue life in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACKHANDtheRICAN Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is my first post on the forum; have to say that I joined just to reply to these threads and issues but have been a Billiken fan since the mid-1980's and became season ticket holder last year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by what is in the police report. I am an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist who has worked with rape survivors and with persons who have assaulted others. I can say in my professional opinion that it was sexual assault; both by KM and JS. Although WR did not sexually assault her, he was a witness to a crime and did nothing to help the victim; he watched her be assaulted. That does justify the university action against him. How would you feel about a person who stood by and enjoyed watching you be assaulted by someone else? It does not matter that she willingly kissed or got into bed with KM or flirted with him earlier in the night. A person can say stop at any time or point which she did. It's clear from the police report that she was afraid and intimidated. Putting on a condom does not equal consent. This is not a case of her regretting things afterwards. So what if she made bad decisions - does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity! This is my 910th post on the forum; have to say that I continue to reply to these threads and issues because I have been a Billiken fan since the late 1990's and became a season ticket holder this year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by the punishments handed to the players after seeing that no criminal activity took place, although bad judgement did. I am an expert in sexual violence and clinical psychologist. I can say in my professional opinion that it wasn't criminal sexual assault and therefore Willie didn't witness a sexual assault. I guess its one clinical psychologist against another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu314 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 When I was a younger man, there were a few mornings I woke up and felt an unattractive chick took advantage of my excessive drinking. I harbor no ill will. As for running a train... I never had the opportunity, but if I could have been first I would have jumped at the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 BillikenDoc, this one's for you: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 BillikenDoc, this one's for you: I bet that is one jock jams song that will never be played at chafitz again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is my first post on the forum; have to say that I joined just to reply to these threads and issues but have been a Billiken fan since the mid-1980's and became season ticket holder last year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by what is in the police report. I am an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist who has worked with rape survivors and with persons who have assaulted others. I can say in my professional opinion that it was sexual assault; both by KM and JS. Although WR did not sexually assault her, he was a witness to a crime and did nothing to help the victim; he watched her be assaulted. That does justify the university action against him. How would you feel about a person who stood by and enjoyed watching you be assaulted by someone else? It does not matter that she willingly kissed or got into bed with KM or flirted with him earlier in the night. A person can say stop at any time or point which she did. It's clear from the police report that she was afraid and intimidated. Putting on a condom does not equal consent. This is not a case of her regretting things afterwards. So what if she made bad decisions - does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity! I have one simple question: Based on the transcript, why do you believe her, but not the guys? (After reading the transcript, I, in NO WAY, think there was anything illegal that happened at all.) What if she is lying and has nearly destroyed two people's lives in an attempt to make herself feel better about her reckless actions? Do we just accept what she said automatically? What if she is exaggerating what happened to make herself look like more like a victim? (I do not see her as a victim, just a young girl who is embarrassed and full of regret, not to mention remarkably immature in her decision making abilities.) Also, you claim to be an "expert" who has "worked with rape survivors" and you have an opinion that this was a sexual assault. What if Willie did not think it was an assault at all, but instead, two people having a good time? He is not an expert yet you somehow hold him to this higher plane where he is supposed to be able to discern what is and is not assault in a dark bedroom at 4:00 in the morning in what is, at most, an ambiguous situation. For someone who purports to be such an expert and so well educated, your comments do not seem to be particularly well thought out. I want to be clear, I am not defending anyone regarding what happened that night. I am not naive - I know what goes on between college kids, young adults, middle aged adults, and old adults. It may not be what I would choose to do, but unless it is truly a unilaterally forcible action, it is to remain between the participants no matter how repulsive it may be to others. Now, what the parents of this woman and the University did was well-calculated and highly intentional. If the University felt the actions of that night were truly equivalent to a sexual assault, they did not need to convene a student court 6 months later; they should have expelled those deemed responsible and done everything possible to bring charges against those they felt were responsible. They chose NOT to do so. What the University did much later choose to do is to provide a forum for this woman and her parents to effectively present a case as to why the woman was not responsible for her actions. The University further constructed this forum in a manner that allowed the woman to have her parents present and a licensed, practicing attorney present for her. However, they lured the guys into this same forum, reportedly prevented their parents from being present, and prevented them from having adequate legal counsel present. What happened that night, happened between a bunch of kids who had ALL of their hormones raging and had been drinking; call it clouded judgement. What the University and the parents undertook, on the other hand, was a calculated, deliberate plan that is totally inconsistent with the idea of social justice that I learned at Saint Louis University. I just ask that everyone, including the "experts" think about this for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Both sides made stupid decisions. That's the point. She bares part of the blame. The unintentional double-entendres are really getting out of hand, double-entendre intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliKat Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 This is my first post on the forum; have to say that I joined just to reply to these threads and issues but have been a Billiken fan since the mid-1980's and became season ticket holder last year. I am a loyal fan and have supported the program, players and coaches for a long time. I am appalled by what is in the police report. I am an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist who has worked with rape survivors and with persons who have assaulted others. I can say in my professional opinion that it was sexual assault; both by KM and JS. Although WR did not sexually assault her, he was a witness to a crime and did nothing to help the victim; he watched her be assaulted. That does justify the university action against him. How would you feel about a person who stood by and enjoyed watching you be assaulted by someone else? It does not matter that she willingly kissed or got into bed with KM or flirted with him earlier in the night. A person can say stop at any time or point which she did. It's clear from the police report that she was afraid and intimidated. Putting on a condom does not equal consent. This is not a case of her regretting things afterwards. So what if she made bad decisions - does that justify raping a person if they make stupid decisions? Come on people where is your humanity! I hope that you realize in your feminist standpoint... that you make women look totally inferior by assuming that shes too scared, weak or naive to leave, say no, or not participate *in a mocking voice pretending to cry. Your justification for her is moot when it makes her look so lowly. I understand not wanting to cause waves and agreeing sometimes just to keep everyone else happy, but not when it is something serious like this... If you want to support women, teach them to nut up and say no i don't want to do this and then NOT DO IT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 The unintentional double-entendres are really getting out of hand, double-entendre intended. Don't be so hard on everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I must say that the board is making the hour and a half wait for Harry Potter 7.1 go much faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliKat Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I must say that the board is making the hour and a half wait for Harry Potter 7.1 go much faster! LOL So Jealous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 I must say that the board is making the hour and a half wait for Harry Potter 7.1 go much faster!Bonwich is a NERD!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Hey, it's my 7th consecutive premiere. I only have one other hobby, which you have, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 PS -- Cool! They just ran a Be A Billiken commercial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenDoc Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 So why didn't she leave when big jon smif came in and pulled his c0ck out? Very simple - someone who is being assaulted doesn't always try to flee, some people freeze up due to shock and fear not to mention that it may take a person some time to understand what's happening to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenDoc Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Let's see, long time loyal fan, season ticket holder, making their first post, hmmm in my professional opinion, you are a fraud with a hidden agenda.. You are entitled to your opinion on that, but I knew that my post would elicit personal attacks on me rather than focusing on the actual issues. Other posts here call me a troll, etc. Funny to me that's all people can come up with given the stakes of the issues here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Very simple - someone who is being assaulted doesn't always try to flee, some people freeze up due to shock and fear not to mention that it may take a person some time to understand what's happening to them. How long does it take to understand you are helping two different people put condoms on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenDoc Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Willie said that he believed the girl was enjoying herself and the activity was consentual. Even if she was as you say "being assaulted" (which I believe she was not), how is Willie supposed to stop an assualt when he does not believe one is happening? Afterall, it seems that it takes "an expert in sexual violence and a clinical psychologist" to develop the opinion that what occured that night was in fact assualt. A Sophomore communications major (Willie) without your "expertise" could never twist the facts of that night into an assualt. You raise some really good points here and I have no problem acknowledging that. It's very likely that none of the guys there that night viewed what was happening to her as sexual assault. Of course ignorance does not excuse their behavior and if it was assault (in my opinion it was) then they are still culpable. Even if Willie thought there was no crime being committed, any reasonable person would have felt uneasy about the situation and realized that it might lead to trouble. Then it would have been very simple for him to tell the other guys to chill out before things got out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenDoc Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Thanks for posting. Let me first say that I respect your opinion on the matter, however, without interviewing, or as you put it 'working with', the girl in question, isn't it kind of hard to render a diagnosis based solely on a police report? A police report, I might add, that the police and District Attorney both were privy to, and still decided against bringing charges against any of the participants. I did not offer any diagnosis. It does not require an interview to make a determination if a person was sexually assaulted. Granted I am relying only upon the information in the police report, so if that information is wrong, then I would reconsider my conclusion. But it's not necessary for me to speak with her to identify the fact that she did not give consent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenDoc Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Why did they not get charged then? Very simple - sexual assault is a very difficult crime to prove in a court of law. Almost all cases have no third party witnesses or concrete evidence; only one person's word against another. Because of that, most cases never go to trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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