For-DaLove Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 STOP talking about what what what. They are INNOCENT.I don't think he said anything that was bad or wrong. In fact CR had a "girl" and he wasn't just meeting up with some random one he had just met. He didn't even go out that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Time to lighten up on Broy. His moral compass points directly North and you can't judge him for having high standards. He's free to think however he wants to. Where he goes wrong is when he judges everyone by his standards. Just cannot be done, but you can't fault him if that's the way he lives his life. The kitty post was most welcome and spot on. This girl was equally guilty and took down a whole team's season for her to reestablish some false sense of self esteem and respectability. The fact the stacked, no pun intended, female dominated student court couldn't see through her story when given the facts indeed makes it a true kangaroo court. Shame on the Admin for not stepping in and saying, sorry, you're bias is hurting two innocent people. Not saying WR and KM didn't break some kind of code of conduct rule that night by holding an orgy in that apt but the punishment far outweighs the "crime". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 From Dictionary.com... Curmudgeon- a bad tempered, difficult, cantankerous person Synonyms- grouch, sourpuss, crank, bear, billiken roy, crosspatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 ok i can agree on that. i think he probably didn't really do anything, but this was just the last straw for him. just having his name tied in another bad thing probably put it over the top. I can't believe I am going to be the only one defending Roy on this stuff. If Roy really wanted to hate on Willie or be a prick he would post all the stuff that Willie has done besides this incident. Stuff that has never even been mentioned on this board. There are major issues with Willie ouside of this incident and some that could be considered bigger issues than this incident. But, by all means everyone keep attacking the school and defending St. Willie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Biondi ought to step in and direct whoever is the decision maker to let them back in school. They can spin this to make it go away. No crime was committed. They made a bad judgment, violated the school's code of conduct, went through the school's judicial process and were punished appropriately. Its an easy spin and ends this mess. Everyone walks away with something, but disappointed it didn't go entirely their way. That's a fair settlement. Get it done Biondi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I can't believe I am going to be the only one defending Roy on this stuff. If Roy really wanted to hate on Willie or be a prick he would post all the stuff that Willie has done besides this incident. Stuff that has never even been mentioned on this board. There are major issues with Willie ouside of this incident and some that could be considered bigger issues than this incident. But, by all means everyone keep attacking the school and defending St. Willie. I'm just curious, because I haven't heard any problems with Willie (other than work ethic and possible academic issues), what kind of stuff has he done? You don't have to be specific, but I honestly would like to know... On this specific issue, I think a suspension was proper, just a lot less than a semester. I also like the idea of writing a general letter of apology to his teammates and maybe even the University for putting himself in a bad situation that reflected negatively on the school. I also think community service would be appropriate...I think those 3 things more than atone for HIS role in the incident. The Student Court suspended him based on THIS incident, and based solely on THIS incident, I think they handed down too harsh a punishment. To me, any possible extraneous transgressions need to be judged on their own merit. For the record, JS and JJ were more culpable than either Willie or Kwamain...even if what they did was legal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Time to lighten up on Broy. His moral compass points directly North and you can't judge him for having high standards. He's free to think however he wants to. Where he goes wrong is when he judges everyone by his standards. Just cannot be done, but you can't fault him if that's the way he lives his life. The kitty post was most welcome and spot on. This girl was equally guilty and took down a whole team's season for her to reestablish some false sense of self esteem and respectability. The fact the stacked, no pun intended, female dominated student court couldn't see through her story when given the facts indeed makes it a true kangaroo court. Shame on the Admin for not stepping in and saying, sorry, you're bias is hurting two innocent people. Not saying WR and KM didn't break some kind of code of conduct rule that night by holding an orgy in that apt but the punishment far outweighs the "crime". I'm with you on this post. Debate, argue, whatever, all you want ... but to attack Roy personally for his beliefs is wrong. One of the reasons Roy and I can go back and forth all day on many issues (Andrew Jones never was the defensive cf'er Jimmy was) and disagree strongly but still remain friends is because it doesn't turn personal (wish I could say the same for my debates with others though) I don't agree with Roy and he clearly doesn't agree with me, however, I do believe he isn't on some kind of mission. He strongly believes how he feels is right. And in my book that's ok ... wrong, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crymdg2 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 People say if this situation didn't involve one of the most noteable student athletes on campus it would have never turned into anything. However, some of the other stuff that has transpired, as Brian talks about, had that happened to anyone other than one of the most noteable student athletes on campus, they would have been gone along time ago. This thing plays both ways in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 The Student Court suspended him based on THIS incident, and based solely on THIS incident, I think they handed down too harsh a punishment. To me, any possible extraneous transgressions need to be judged on their own merit. That is a convincing argument to me. Maybe Willie needed to go based on his whole "body of work" but I can't believe that other issues were brought up in this "court" hearing. Roy's argument is that that the court came to the right desicion for the wrong reasons maybe? Brilliant. Well done SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I don't agree with Roy and he clearly doesn't agree with me, however, I do believe he isn't on some kind of mission. He strongly believes how he feels is right. And in my book that's ok ... wrong, but ok. It's a slippery slope though. Historically, strong belief in the rightness of your beliefs often doesn't end well. It's a DAMN good thing that Roy is not in a position of power.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 It's a slippery slope though. Historically, strong belief in the rightness of your beliefs often doesn't end well. It's a DAMN good thing that Roy is not in a position of power.... despite my differences in opinion with Roy, I believe if more families believed as he did we'd all be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkamp Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Another female perspective... I created an account just to reply to this. I played for SLU under Pizzotti awhile back, so when this story first broke I contacted a friend who was still attending SLU. They told me they had seen these individuals that night and said the girl had been hanging all over the guys which does not justify "rape" but lead me to believe there are surely two sides to this story. However, upon reading the newest article I feel this girl was not "raped" but made a lot of poor choices during the evening, which lead to a horrible feeling of guilt. As a woman, I know how our minds work, and when we are interested/not interested in a man, we show the obvious signs. Once again, preceived interest does not justify "rape". This girl was clearly not intoxicated which means her judgement was there. I do think the guys made poor choices as well, but the girl ultimately made the choices. To enter the apartment, to enter the bedroom, to stay in the bed even after Mitchell undressed, to stay in there when the other men came in. I think once the third guy came into the room, her morals kicked in and she felt guilty. Bottom line: "Wishing to be elsewhere" should have resulted in getting out of there. Rape is being held against your will or being verbally threatened to be harmed if she does not participate. According to her transcript she was not forced down or verbally assaulted. I feel sorry for all parties involved and hopefully some lessons are learned here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If this identical police report came out with the names Marcus Denmon, Kim English, and Michael Dixon and Mizzou hadn't suspended them, how many people on this board would have looked at that as another reason that "spumac" was corrupt and horrible? Sexual assault comes in many colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If this identical police report came out with the names Marcus Denmon, Kim English, and Michael Dixon and Mizzou hadn't suspended them, how many people on this board would have looked at that as another reason that "spumac" was corrupt and horrible? Sexual assault comes in many colors. I don't know why you keep using the acronym spumac. I find it both insulting and derogitory to that one guy back in '87 who went to Mizzou and actually didn't get in trouble with the law. Seriously, after reading that you'd call it sexual assault? Would you think the same had you been able to talk your Sr. prom date into "doing it". Hell, I'm on your side, I don't think the cousin thing should have even been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If this identical police report came out with the names Marcus Denmon, Kim English, and Michael Dixon and Mizzou hadn't suspended them, how many people on this board would have looked at that as another reason that "spumac" was corrupt and horrible? Sexual assault comes in many colors. Other than Roy, probably not too many. In any case, you should note that this is "Billikens.com" and not "Tigerboard." If you are shocked at fan(atic)s being somewhat hypocritical you are either extremely naive or more likely trolling..... Sexual assault comes in many colors but consent is pretty black and white in the non-academic world. Willie Reed's and Kwamain Mitchell's actions do not compare in ANY way to the Grimes or Clemons horror shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slubilliken09 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Another female perspective... I created an account just to reply to this. I played for SLU under Pizzotti awhile back, so when this story first broke I contacted a friend who was still attending SLU. They told me they had seen these individuals that night and said the girl had been hanging all over the guys which does not justify "rape" but lead me to believe there are surely two sides to this story. However, upon reading the newest article I feel this girl was not "raped" but made a lot of poor choices during the evening, which lead to a horrible feeling of guilt. As a woman, I know how our minds work, and when we are interested/not interested in a man, we show the obvious signs. Once again, preceived interest does not justify "rape". This girl was clearly not intoxicated which means her judgement was there. I do think the guys made poor choices as well, but the girl ultimately made the choices. To enter the apartment, to enter the bedroom, to stay in the bed even after Mitchell undressed, to stay in there when the other men came in. I think once the third guy came into the room, her morals kicked in and she felt guilty. Bottom line: "Wishing to be elsewhere" should have resulted in getting out of there. Rape is being held against your will or being verbally threatened to be harmed if she does not participate. According to her transcript she was not forced down or verbally assaulted. I feel sorry for all parties involved and hopefully some lessons are learned here. Thank you for the viewpoint. Definitely appreciate seeing a female's perspective on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I don't know why you keep using the acronym spumac. I find it both insulting and derogitory to that one guy back in '87 who went to Mizzou and actually didn't get in trouble with the law. Seriously, after reading that you'd call it sexual assault? Would you think the same had you been able to talk your Sr. prom date into "doing it". Hell, I'm on your side, I don't think the cousin thing should have even been an issue. I find this thread insulting and derogatory, and have learned a lot about how the male posters on this board value the women in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Other than Roy, probably not too many. In any case, you should note that this is "Billikens.com" and not "Tigerboard." If you are shocked at fan(atic)s being somewhat hypocritical you are either extremely naive or more likely trolling..... Sexual assault comes in many colors but consent is pretty black and white in the non-academic world. Willie Reed's and Kwamain Mitchell's actions do not compare in ANY way to the Grimes or Clemons horror shows. Glad you admit it's hypocrisy. That police report is WAY worse than anything grimes ever did, and he got kicked off the team permanently, not some 2 month suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyRican Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I find this thread insulting and derogatory, and have learned a lot about how the male posters on this board value the women in their lives. CheeeeeeesssyyyyyCowwwwwww! I yell it at every game hoping one day for someone to turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 I find this thread insulting and derogatory, and have learned a lot about how the male posters on this board value the women in their lives. cheesycow has a lot easier time valuing the women in his life, seeing as how each one involves a financial transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 CheeeeeeesssyyyyyCowwwwwww! I yell it at every game hoping one day for someone to turn around. I think you sit closer than i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Glad you admit it's hypocrisy. That police report is WAY worse than anything grimes ever did, and he got kicked off the team permanently, not some 2 month suspension. Grimes was actually charged with a crime, so it seems to me that it's not worse. Grimes was also just the tip of the Mizzou bad-behavior iceberg. While I'll admit that Anderson has cleaned up the crap in Columbia and perhaps SLU fans can no longer claim the program to be entirely clean, lets not mistake this incident with the long list of "indiscretions" that came out of Columbia in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Glad you admit it's hypocrisy. That police report is WAY worse than anything grimes ever did, and he got kicked off the team permanently, not some 2 month suspension. So being kinky in the sack is worse than taking a loaded shotgun to the local ice cream shack, planting the butt end into someones face. No comparison. As far as I am concerned, going somewhere with a loaded gun is intent to murder. That is quite a bit more serious than "pulling a train". Get serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 So being kinky in the sack is worse than taking a loaded shotgun to the local ice cream shack, planting the butt end into someones face. No comparison. As far as I am concerned, going somewhere with a loaded gun is intent to murder. That is quite a bit more serious than "pulling a train". Get serious. I think you'd be surprised at how often this sort of thing happens once you get past high school. I mean really, pretty much every d-1 team has people getting into fights and hitting people with loaded weapons, it's really not that different from treating a woman like she's your own personal pornography playground. yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 So being kinky in the sack is worse than taking a loaded shotgun to the local ice cream shack, planting the butt end into someones face. No comparison. As far as I am concerned, going somewhere with a loaded gun is intent to murder. That is quite a bit more serious than "pulling a train". Get serious. You gotta be kidding....That might be the most ridiculous statement I've seen posted on this message board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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