71 points against SIU-C?

[Quality Is Job 1]

Good game. A few youthful knuckleheaded plays, but encouraging. These guys will be beasts in March 2012.

[brianstl]

Good game. A few youthful knuckleheaded plays, but encouraging. These guys will be beasts in March 2012.

We were the more talented team. It has been a long time since that has been the case.

[Billikan]

Good game. A few youthful knuckleheaded plays, but encouraging. These guys will be beasts in March 2012.

Just back from the game. I guess many saw it on TV so I will cut short my observations.

First, we now have a team that can go in the trenches with SIUC and come out a winner. We played super tough and they were whining like babies. Conklin, Remekin, Femi, Willie, and even Kyle were giving just as good as SIUC could deliver and more. It is about time we stepped up to those bullies. I just loved it!

Second, that cheap shot on KM at the end was one of the worst I have ever seen with a game out of reach and seven seconds to go to low bridge and hammer a player when he is up in the air is an outrage. And I sit close and Lowery did anything--never even a word to the player. The guys I sit with think we should cancel the series. I played a lot of ball in tough places under tough circumstances and that chicken sh## shot would have gotten that guy a real ##$%%. I am still pissed. I hope KM is ok.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Just back from the game. I guess many saw it on TV so I will cut short my observations.

First, we now have a team that can go in the trenches with SIUC and come out a winner. We played super tough and they were whining like babies. Conklin, Remekin, Femi, Willie, and even Kyle were giving just as good as SIUC could deliver and more. It is about time we stepped up to those bullies. I just loved it!

Second, that cheap shot on KM at the end was one of the worst I have ever seen with a game out of reach and seven seconds to go to low bridge and hammer a player when he is up in the air is an outrage. And I sit close and Lowery did anything--never even a word to the player. The guys I sit with think we should cancel the series. I played a lot of ball in tough places under tough circumstances and that chicken sh## shot would have gotten that guy a real ##$%%. I am still pissed. I hope KM is ok.

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

[cheeseman]

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

I respectfully disagree. He went for the body and then ball. If he had only gone for the ball then he would not have knocked KM out of bounds. Sorry, it was a bush play and SIUC fans should be ashamed. Using your logic - a girl who is raped and wearing a dress that accents her figure is asking for it - can't agree.

[davidnark]

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

C'mon Thicks. There was 7 seconds in the game. I don't care whether or not the kid "got ball." You don't cut under the other team's star player to make a meaningless defensive play when you have already lost. It was BS, and the kid knew better. The guys at the "forty" certainly know better. That is the kind of defensive play that causes guys to get chippy.

[cheeseman]

Just back from the game. I guess many saw it on TV so I will cut short my observations.

First, we now have a team that can go in the trenches with SIUC and come out a winner. We played super tough and they were whining like babies. Conklin, Remekin, Femi, Willie, and even Kyle were giving just as good as SIUC could deliver and more. It is about time we stepped up to those bullies. I just loved it!

Second, that cheap shot on KM at the end was one of the worst I have ever seen with a game out of reach and seven seconds to go to low bridge and hammer a player when he is up in the air is an outrage. And I sit close and Lowery did anything--never even a word to the player. The guys I sit with think we should cancel the series. I played a lot of ball in tough places under tough circumstances and that chicken sh## shot would have gotten that guy a real ##$%%. I am still pissed. I hope KM is ok.

I agree it was a bush play by the SIUC player. As far as Lowery not saying anything to the player - I am not sure what he is suppose to say at that point. Browbeating the player in public has no place - for all we know he was steamed and held his tongue so he did not make the situation worse. He may very well have a conversation with the player in private. What I thought was interesting was that the SIUC fans were very quiet and were looking for a place go like the SW ad - at least around me.

[jp18]

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

My dad officiated high school and college basketball for years. He sides with the refs 99 percent of the times (no joke - rarely says anything bad). On that play, he said he would have kicked that guy out of the game. He would not have hesitated - said that is why so many games get out of hands these days, letting guys get away with stuff like that. Sure, the guy was hustling, but there is NO reason to hit a guy like that at that point of the game. It is called common sense. And I also think it was a terrible move by Lowery to leave the kid out there that did that.

[brianstl]

I agree it was a bush play by the SIUC player. As far as Lowery not saying anything to the player - I am not sure what he is suppose to say at that point. Browbeating the player in public has no place - for all we know he was steamed and held his tongue so he did not make the situation worse. He may very well have a conversation with the player in private. What I thought was interesting was that the SIUC fans were very quiet and were looking for a place go like the SW ad - at least around me.

I am pretty sure Lowery said something to the kid right away. He called him over right after the play. I was suprised that he didn't pull him out, but he did talk to the kid right after the play. Booker congraluating the guy right after was true bush league.

[jimbofive]

My dad officiated high school and college basketball for years. He sides with the refs 99 percent of the times (no joke - rarely says anything bad). On that play, he said he would have kicked that guy out of the game. He would not have hesitated - said that is why so many games get out of hands these days, letting guys get away with stuff like that. Sure, the guy was hustling, but there is NO reason to hit a guy like that at that point of the game. It is called common sense. And I also think it was a terrible move by Lowery to leave the kid out there that did that.

Unnecessary play, and you can't fault KM for going for the dunk, but the play taken out of context didn't look that bad to me. I never saw Bocot's reaction. Would tell the whole story. If you have a chance to keep someone from dunking on you, at any point in the game, you take it. If he would have undercut him like the guy undercut Willie earlier, that's one thing. But he flat out swatted the ball and fouled KM hard to the body. I agree w/ the flagrant call. But I don't think it's as black and white as that. I don't think the player's mindset was "I'm going to hurt this guy." I think it was "He's going for the dunk and I've got something to say about that." Maybe my perspective's skewed by KM appearing to be OK after the play. SIU-C plays dirty and perhaps they could have just let that one go. But it's not like he just two-hand shoved KM in the back. He fouled him real hard (and unexpectedly) but he got all of the ball and stopped the dunk. Pisses you off but not enough to not shake the guy's hand after the game.

[Billikan]

I am pretty sure Lowery said something to the kid right away. He called him over right after the play. I was suprised that he didn't pull him out, but he did talk to the kid right after the play. Booker congraluating the guy right after was true bush league.

I was only a few yards from Lowery and he did not say anything to the player about the hit--he was just saying for him to be calm. The whole thing was ridiculous in my opinion

[Schasz]

I did not get to see the game tonight, so I will have to read everyones comment on the play. I am happy to learn that KM is OK. Great win for our team to end the 3 game skid.

[slufanskip]

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

You're nuts thicks. He ran right through him with his body like a strong safety hitting a receiver. Yes he tried to hit the ball, but his body ran straight through KM.

[bonwich]

The NCAA rulebook isn't behaving such that I can quote it, but fouling a player from behind on a breakaway, which that play clearly was, is an automatic intentional foul. There's something in there, I think, about deliberate intent to injure, or reckless play.

The guy should have been thrown out of the game, period. This wasn't a "get out of here" foul. He had absolutely no position and knew he was trailing the play (not to mention that the game was clearly out of reach). I would bet that RickMa quietly petitions the NCAA to have the guy suspended for a few games, which is exactly what should happen.

[thetorch]

I was surprised any call was made. These refs let CS play for a couple minutes with 5 fouls on him.

[bonwich]

Here ya go. Rule 10, article 13, (e):

e. Two free throws for:

1. A personal foul against a player who attempts a

field goal and whose try is unsuccessful.

2. An intentional personal or flagrant personal foul

and the ball awarded at a designated spot nearest to

where the foul occurred.

a. Any flagrant personal foul shall result in ejection

of the offender. (italics mine)

The refs also have the ability to check a replay to determine whether a foul is flagrant; I believe they did that. I also believe they reached the wrong conclusion.

[Cowboy]

-i have a different take, it appears, than most here, sorry

-KM is one of the leaders of this team

-KM is one of the better players on this team

-KM is the pg

-we were playing siu who it appears their goal is to see how physical a game the refs will let them play and then play at the next physical level

-the outcome of the game was decided at that point, the points were not a matter

-i think it was a cheap shot by the siu player

-however, imo, KM should not have put himself, the team and the program in that situation, no reason for it in my mind, the potential bad in that situation outweighs the potential good by a lot, imo

[Clock_Tower]

Thicks. All I can say is that we watched a different ending of the game. Bocot may have gotten ball but he mostly got KM - and he got him unexpectedly and from behind. To me, this is yet another cheap and dirty shot by a Lowery coached thug and I am truly getting sick of it. KL didn't seem to be the same after that vicious hit he took - I guess - two years ago? Gene Teague's (21) football moves including the 2 hand driving of our player laterally across the entire width of the court. The elbows flying by Nick Evans were numerous - I counted probably 15 fouls and not just the 5 he received. After 2 big dunks by WR, SIUC's PG totally undercuts WR going up for another alley-oop. These are all the result of Lowery. Attempts at intimidation and the sending of messages. If Lowery did talk with Bocot after the play - and I truly did not see if he did or did not - I would bet, base on repeated behavior of Lowery coached teams - that it was a conversation of congratulations and not along the lines of "don't embarass the program." The failure to take the thug out of the game speaks volume for the dirty, cheapshot coach - Coach Lowery.

This year, the difference was that our guys stoop up tall and strong to SIUC and that SIUC severly lacked the skill to go with their size, strength and dirty play.

SIUC may be a rival of ours and I am not advocating that we avoid physical teams - even those that teach the art of taking cheapshots - but I sure don't want to be in a league with them. Playing once a year is enough. With the past record/history of SLU, we cannot avoid SIUC. If we had to play them 2 or 3 times per year though, I would be preaching that we take out their best player. Just like a pitcher retaliates when his top hitter is thrown at, we should do the same. RM probably figures this is just one game each year and there is no need to worry about a team that's not in our league, then I would tend agree.

[AlumniFan]

Here is why I was pissed. First, Kwamain had his man beat by a mile. Bocot was not trying to stop Kwamain from scoring because he thought the game was on the line (the game was over - period). Kwamain did not look to me like he was showboating at all and I do not even think he was trying to dunk. Bocot just ran up behind him - and had to sprint for the last 5 yards - and hit Kwamain from behind. The point is that Kwamain had a CLEAR breakaway with NO ONE near him. The game was over and this knucklehead comes flying in and takes out Kwamain. If Kwamain had tried to drive through traffic to score with 7 seconds left or was racing someone down the floor to score, then it is a completely different story, but that was not the case. By the way, Kwamain it the floor hard right on his back. The minute he hit we said "concussion" or worse.

I will tell you, the people around me were PISSED!!!. And one of the SIU-C fans behind me, of course, had to make a stupid remark which just added fuel to the fire.

The classy thing to do would have been for Lowery to pull the kid out and reprimand him. As he left it, strategically, he just created a GREAT motivating factor for Majerus next year.

Otherwise, GREAT game, great crowd, really great student section - I can never remember the students being this into the team. This was a good, quality win against a good (not great) team.

[DeSmetBilliken]

I think the context of the foul on Bocot is the key thing here. I just watched Nate's video of the press conference, and Majerus apparently was told by the ref that he had watched the replay and that the foul itself was not a dirty one. It is the context that makes the difference in my opinion. Whether or not Kwamain converted the dunk or lay-up was not going to change the end result of the game. I'd say that doing something that gets you called for an intentional foul with 7 seconds left with the game already decided is a dirty play.

If I was Lowery, I'd have taken Bocot off the court immediately. If I was his coach and determined the foul to be malicious, I'd make him run extra sprints in practice, plus I'd also bench him for the first few minutes of the next game.

[SaintLouBlue]

I was surprised any call was made. These refs let CS play for a couple minutes with 5 fouls on him.

On CS, I just figured that the board was wrong and he really only had 4, but then when the ref at the table noticed he was shooting the free throws for KM, you could tell she had some panic on her face and started waiving her arms....I asked my wife he she heard anything about it on tv and she said they didn't mention it or she missed it.

As for the Kwamaine foul, it was definitely an intentional foul, but I think it was just a good hard foul. From my vantage point (4 rows behind the basket) it looked like the player went in high and hard at the ball, but obviously got a lot of KM on the way through. IMO, going for a meaningless dunk with 7 seconds left was kind of a bush league play. Totally different if there was 30 seconds left and the score was where it was at and the game was still in doubt, but that ball really should have just been pulled out and run the clock. It actually looked to me like KM slowed up at first like he was going to pull it out and then decided to go which let the SIUC player catch up.

But, I do have to say that I liked that SLU had the chance to be "bush league." That was the first game I've gotten to go to this year and the atmosphere and team were a lot more fun to be a part of. I thought the Blue Crew did a great job. And I realized why I actually miss the cheerleaders as the alumni still had the moves and tosses that the "combined" squad just can't do. Guess I am a little biased since I'm married to a former SLU Cheer leader though.

[NashvilleBilliken]

The foul was bad and really unnecessary, but it's not as bad as most make it out to be. Here is an excellent pic from the post dispatch. You can see the guy clearly went for the ball. I think it was called perfectly by the refs.

http://stltoday.mycapture.com/mycapture/en...ategoryID=38576

[kevinfootes]

You probably won't read the game thread, so I'll recap what I said there.

I didn't think Bocot's play was dirty it all, and I applaud his hustle. Yes, it was a hard foul, but he went for the ball and I didn't see any indication of his going for the body or doing anything extracurricular. I didn't agree with its being called flagrant. Mitchell should have run out the clock instead of showboating with the game already decided in the waning seconds. He wasn't injured by the foul, but he experienced cramps in his calves because of exerting the effort to dunk.

"showboating"? Please!

I recorded the game and looked at it several times. There was no showboating going on. He was trying to score a basket. Why should we quit scoring? Did SIU-C quit trying to win?

[bonwich]

I think there continues to be a total lack of logic as to whether that foul was "flagrant" or not. The refs called it "intentional." When you're running full-speed toward the basket and you make hard contact, it's clearly a situation that has a high probability of ending as it did. If you do that intentionally, you had intent to injure.

As for the "showboating" thing, Kwamain made a split-second steal. His instinct is to fast-break. Certainly the last time they were in the huddle, Rick didn't remind them to avoid easy baskets. If he did slow up, it's probably because something flashed through his brain that maybe he shouldn't go in for the layup/dunk -- but that was against everything he's hardwired to do.

Finally: The very first words in the NCAA rulebook are:

Sportsmanship

The primary goal of the rules is to maximize the safety and enjoyment of

the student-athlete. Sportsmanship is a key part of that goal. Sportsmanship

should be a core value in behavior of players and bench personnel, in crowd

control by game management and in the officials’ proper enforcement of the

rules governing related actions.

___

At worst, if you could accuse Kwamain of showboating or running up the score or "taunting" by trying to dunk, the worst thing that could have happened was that the poor little Salukis would have had their feelings hurt. On the other hand, the worst thing that could have happened on the play as finished was that we could have lost a key player for the season.

It's a great test case for the NCAA. If they're serious about all their BS about "sportsmanship," they suspend the guy on Monday.

[billiken_roy]

i'm not going to argue "going for the ball" or "just clicked him like a safety" the bigger issue for me on the play came during the next real time five minutes while our point guard was on the floor motionless. if lowery said anything, it wasnt too much, he definitely didnt take him out of the game. second, bocut was very proud and content he had taken mitchell out. went around getting high fives and chest bumps from a couple of teamates.

and last, dont you think the NORMAL human reaction regardless of the intent is to show some concern and compassion for your fellow man in that situation? he couldnt care less. my gosh, when mitchell finally got to his feet, run over pat him on the rump and tell him sorry.

sorry, i agree with the above poster that pointed out this is more of lowery's coaching coming through loud and clear. lowery is nothing more than thug coach and i will take great joy in watching the saluki's suck this year with a very poor team. no one deserves it more.