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OT: Midtown Development

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9 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

Meh. It's good, but not great. Don't like the big open space in the middle, which will likely be under-utilized.

I agree.

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Would love it if the administration would focus on the 4 abandoned buildings right on Laclede.

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11 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Would love it if the administration would focus on the 4 abandoned buildings right on Laclede.

are you talking about by the picklemans - papa johns?  If so, I agree.  I like that they want to develop the area, but still so much in walking distance that needs work.

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23 minutes ago, wgstl said:

are you talking about by the picklemans - papa johns?  If so, I agree.  I like that they want to develop the area, but still so much in walking distance that needs work.

I'm talking Humphrey's, Lacledes and the building between lacledes and the loft apartments(if they are still standing)

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9 hours ago, brianstl said:

The open spaces in the middle are 100 times better than a setback from the street. 

Totally agree!  However, I’m concerned that it’s all inward facing...almost as if it’s walled off from the community with buildings.  I was expecting (and maybe later renderings will show this) more integration and embrace of the area.

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2 hours ago, TheBand said:

Totally agree!  However, I’m concerned that it’s all inward facing...almost as if it’s walled off from the community with buildings.  I was expecting (and maybe later renderings will show this) more integration and embrace of the area.

Look at the planned sketches of the development, does it look like they are planning to charge a low rent for living there? Now look at the surroundings, do you see the railroad tracks,? Can you imagine the noise trains make? Does anyone know how much train traffic goes through those lines? Do you think anyone willing to pay the money they will charge for those apartments will want to enjoy the view of the train tracks? Come on, be reasonable, you can sound insulate the apartments to make them livable despite the noise but you cannot make the train tracks look like Maui. If they want to make money out of this mixed use development, the apartments must look inside where a more or less attractive view can be planned and obtained.

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SLU is currently tearing down:

Laclede's

Diablito's

Pruellage Hall

O'Brien Hall

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:59 PM, Old guy said:

Look at the planned sketches of the development, does it look like they are planning to charge a low rent for living there? Now look at the surroundings, do you see the railroad tracks,? Can you imagine the noise trains make? Does anyone know how much train traffic goes through those lines? Do you think anyone willing to pay the money they will charge for those apartments will want to enjoy the view of the train tracks? Come on, be reasonable, you can sound insulate the apartments to make them livable despite the noise but you cannot make the train tracks look like Maui. If they want to make money out of this mixed use development, the apartments must look inside where a more or less attractive view can be planned and obtained.

Doesn't affect housing prices in Webster or Kirkwood. 

If they can turn this area around and make it a very attractive spot to (and I really hate using this term) "live/work/play" then the train tracks become less of an issue.

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18 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

SLU is currently tearing down:

Laclede's

Diablito's

Pruellage Hall

O'Brien Hall

Wow, they are tearing down Laclede's and Diablito's? Has this been planned for some time? Do they have plans to redevelop these parcels or is this the classic case of tearing down and leaving a vacant lot for 2 decades? So many questions...

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22 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

SLU is currently tearing down:

Laclede's

Diablito's

Pruellage Hall

O'Brien Hall

So basically they are tearing down 4 years of my bad decisions 

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9 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Wow, they are tearing down Laclede's and Diablito's? Has this been planned for some time? Do they have plans to redevelop these parcels or is this the classic case of tearing down and leaving a vacant lot for 2 decades? So many questions...

Sounds like they're going to build a classroom building where Pruellage and O'Brien were, with "green space" slated for the Laclede properties.

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4 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

Sounds like they're going to build a classroom building where Pruellage and O'Brien were, with "green space" slated for the Laclede properties.

More green space is just what the city needs.  

With how in demand that area is, SLU should lease the buildings out until they have a plan for those sites.  

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19 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Doesn't affect housing prices in Webster or Kirkwood. 

If they can turn this area around and make it a very attractive spot to (and I really hate using this term) "live/work/play" then the train tracks become less of an issue.

Yes, and they probably would not either if the same circumstances were present in Ladue or Clayton. BUT the area this development is located at is most distinctly not one of the prime areas in the city where people will pay a hefty premium just to live there. This development is between the railroad tracks and SLU Hospital/Med School, which is distinctly NOT a highly sought after area as a place to live in. What kind of world do you live in that you appear not to understand this. This is an initial step to make this area acceptable as a living place despite all kinds of negative factors. If it is successful more may come and then people will start paying more. As it is now, it is a bit of a developmental gamble.

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53 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Yes, and they probably would not either if the same circumstances were present in Ladue or Clayton. BUT the area this development is located at is most distinctly not one of the prime areas in the city where people will pay a hefty premium just to live there. This development is between the railroad tracks and SLU Hospital/Med School, which is distinctly NOT a highly sought after area as a place to live in. What kind of world do you live in that you appear not to understand this. This is an initial step to make this area acceptable as a living place despite all kinds of negative factors. If it is successful more may come and then people will start paying more. As it is now, it is a bit of a developmental gamble.

You must have blacked out after my first sentence and forgot to read the sentence directly under it. I'll copy and paste for you in case you don't feel like scrolling up:

"If they can turn this area around and make it a very attractive spot to (and I really hate using this term) "live/work/play" then the train tracks become less of an issue"

Based on previous posts, I got the impression you live way out in a county (outside of STL county) that doesn't encourage or have urban living. This may be a hard concept for you to understand but most recent college grads aren't looking for the tract housing/chain restaurant vibe. They enjoy public transportation, arts and entertainment, and proximity to bars, restaurants, shops, etc. Train tracks outside their apartment isn't a high concern for them (or for the people underwriting this project). 

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22 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

So basically they are tearing down 4 years of my bad decisions 

When I was there, Pruellage Hall was called Notre Dame Hall and was dedicated housing for freshman and sophomore honors program students. O'Brien Hall was a female-only dorm for some program (academic or service related, I can't remember). I'm fairly confident that your bad decisions took place among a different tier of students.

Laclede's is a different story. I'm not aware of anyone making a good decision at Laclede's, ever. I'm pretty sure I have the all-time record for getting kicked out of there in the shortest amount of time possible.

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25 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

Sounds like they're going to build a classroom building where Pruellage and O'Brien were, with "green space" slated for the Laclede properties.

Has to be green space "for now", right? Those spots are too valuable to waste forever.

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13 minutes ago, Pistol said:

When I was there, Pruellage Hall was called Notre Dame Hall and was dedicated housing for freshman and sophomore honors program students. O'Brien Hall was a female-only dorm for some program (academic or service related, I can't remember). 

I had forgotten about these buildings, and didn’t realize Notre Dame had its name changed. When they were building the current BSC during my freshman year, Notre Dame was the temporary replacement for the student organizations. It was an odd setup seeing the different organizations occupying tiny dorm rooms.

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Just now, DeSmetBilliken said:

I had forgotten about these buildings, and didn’t realize Notre Dame had its name changed. When they were building the current BSC during my freshman year, Notre Dame was the temporary replacement for the student organizations. It was an odd setup seeing the different organizations occupying tiny dorm rooms.

Yeah, I think you and I were there at the same time, overlapping at least a couple years (I was class of 2005). Notre Dame went back to honors housing once the BSC was done; that must've been my senior year.

I had a couple buddies in Notre Dame my freshman year who were the only non-honors students in the dorm (gotta love clerical errors) and they could not have been more out of place. Complete stoner-burnout types, and a lot of fun. Made for some good comedy.

Notre Dame/Pruellage was pretty limited in terms of fitting the needs of a modern campus, and I suppose O'Brien Hall was, as well. It's a shame to lose a nice old STL brick house like O'Brien, though.

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3 hours ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

You must have blacked out after my first sentence and forgot to read the sentence directly under it. I'll copy and paste for you in case you don't feel like scrolling up:

"If they can turn this area around and make it a very attractive spot to (and I really hate using this term) "live/work/play" then the train tracks become less of an issue"

Based on previous posts, I got the impression you live way out in a county (outside of STL county) that doesn't encourage or have urban living. This may be a hard concept for you to understand but most recent college grads aren't looking for the tract housing/chain restaurant vibe. They enjoy public transportation, arts and entertainment, and proximity to bars, restaurants, shops, etc. Train tracks outside their apartment isn't a high concern for them (or for the people underwriting this project). 

Expanding on this, let's (for a moment) describe this intersection and discuss its surroundings:

This project will occupy the NW corner of Grand and Chouteau. The NE corner (Prospect Yards) is currently undergoing millions of dollars in development. On the SW corner (or slightly south) , a half billion dollar hospital is being built. The SE corner holds Doisy Research Center. This entire intersection is going to look dramatically different in 5 years.

To the west of this intersection is the Grove, an area that has likely seen more investment than any other neighborhood in the city the  past 15 years. To the southwest is what I call "SoGrove", an area with a high concentration of some of the metro's best eating establishements (Elaia and Olio, Nixta, Union Loafers, and La Patisserie). Due south is South Grand, an eclectic row of international eateries. Directly North (SLU and): Midtown, the area's entertainment district. Southeast is Lafayette Square. NW is Cortex/Foundry and CWE, and NE is downtown. All of these places can be gotten to in  under 10 minutes by either walking, biking, metrolink, or UBer/Lyft. This is actually a pretty sweet location.

And it's not just the neighborhood that young professionals value. It's the amenities these new types of places offer: state of the art pools/BBQ stations, yoga and gym centers, dog parks, coffee stations in the lobby, work centers,  etc. 

So yeah, these are the things that hold the most weight for potential renters.

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1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Yes, and they probably would not either if the same circumstances were present in Ladue or Clayton. BUT the area this development is located at is most distinctly not one of the prime areas in the city where people will pay a hefty premium just to live there. This development is between the railroad tracks and SLU Hospital/Med School, which is distinctly NOT a highly sought after area as a place to live in. What kind of world do you live in that you appear not to understand this. This is an initial step to make this area acceptable as a living place despite all kinds of negative factors. If it is successful more may come and then people will start paying more. As it is now, it is a bit of a developmental gamble.

Not really a gamble at this stage.  If there is not sufficient pre-leasing the project simply won’t happen.

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The NE corner (Prospect Yards) is currently undergoing millions of dollars in development

 

Caps D's going down? :(

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18 minutes ago, almaman said:

The NE corner (Prospect Yards) is currently undergoing millions of dollars in development

 

Caps D's going down? :(

Ha I doubt any time soon. Aside from the Steelcote, Lindseed Oil Bldg, and the new construction projects in Prospect Yards, I know the developer has plans for some mix-use new construction just east of Captain D's and Rally's along Chouteau extending North. 

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5 hours ago, Box and Won said:

SLU is currently tearing down:

Laclede's

Diablito's

Pruellage Hall

O'Brien Hall

Was just about to come here and post this. I took a detour past campus coming back from the Cards game today and was stunned to see The Shack (formerly Laclede's) getting torn down. They already tore down Diablito's a couple weeks ago. Why is Pruellage getting torn down? Shame because it's actually a nice looking building... 

Does SLU own all of these properties now? If so, are they just going to become more "non-development empty parking lot space"?

I've also heard rumors that SLU has purchased Humphrey's. If so, will that be the next property to get turned into a parking lot?

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4 hours ago, brianstl said:

 

More green space is just what the city needs.  

With how in demand that area is, SLU should lease the buildings out until they have a plan for those sites.  

This is where I am. So confused with SLU right now, especially because this administration should be well aware of how it's empty spaces inhibit a great deal of development in the central corridor. 

4 hours ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

You must have blacked out after my first sentence and forgot to read the sentence directly under it. I'll copy and paste for you in case you don't feel like scrolling up:

"If they can turn this area around and make it a very attractive spot to (and I really hate using this term) "live/work/play" then the train tracks become less of an issue"

Based on previous posts, I got the impression you live way out in a county (outside of STL county) that doesn't encourage or have urban living. This may be a hard concept for you to understand but most recent college grads aren't looking for the tract housing/chain restaurant vibe. They enjoy public transportation, arts and entertainment, and proximity to bars, restaurants, shops, etc. Train tracks outside their apartment isn't a high concern for them (or for the people underwriting this project). 

In Omaha's downtown, they have plenty of really cool developments right next to the train tracks. It's definitely not an issue for urbanites. 

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