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OT: Midtown Development

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On 1/30/2019 at 1:48 PM, cgeldmacher said:

I just don't think that's accurate.  Just because this commission says it will happen this way, doesn't mean it will.  The merger will not create big Mega City like someone suggested.  The City of St. Louis's borders will still exist.  The police departments being combined will not change what is the City of St. Louis any more than Chicago trying to claim the crime statistics of Oakbrook.  When the articles about crime statistics are written, the authors don't use metropolitan areas and they don't use entire counties.  They use city borders, like Chicago, Memphis, Indianapolis.

The idea that merging the City and County will drop our reported crime statistics is as naive as thinking that Detroit should be able to start considering the entirety of Wayne County, Michigan for its crime statistics.  Detroit doesn't get to include Dearborn, Michigan in its stats just like St. Louis won't get to count Chesterfield in its stats.  The writers of these articles choose not to include entire counties in their numbers for reason.  They're not going to be tricked into doing it differently. 

I think you have this wrong.  This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently.  Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined.  They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today.  This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now.  It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count.

There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure.

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30 minutes ago, ARon said:

I think you have this wrong.  This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently.  Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined.  They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today.  This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now.  It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count.

There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure.

exactly right...…… some of those making fun of my "super mayor" jibe need to actually read the damn better together proposal...……..

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On 1/30/2019 at 1:52 PM, cgeldmacher said:

Also, if what you are saying is true about this Super Mayor nonsense, then we would be unlike any other city in the country.  Can you imagine Chicago having Super Mayor over all of Cook County?  We'd go from being ridiculous one way to being more ridiculous the other.

The Mayor of New York is ultimately the chief executive over five counties.

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17 hours ago, ARon said:

I think you have this wrong.  This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently.  Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined.  They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today.  This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now.  It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count.

There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure.

The problems is that someone writing an article about crime statistics for Yahoo or USA Today doesn't have to use that criteria.  They make judgement calls all over the country about what borders to use.  A "journalist," I hesitate to call the people that write these articles journalists, could just say that counting all of St. Louis County is no different than counting all of Jackson County, Missouri or Cook County, Illinois and decide that's not what they should use.  Then they just go back to using the statistics for the municipal district of St. Louis.  The flaw in your logic is assuming that the Better Together board and its ideas have any sway over someone writing an article.

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23 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

The problems is that someone writing an article about crime statistics for Yahoo or USA Today doesn't have to use that criteria.  They make judgement calls all over the country about what borders to use.  A "journalist," I hesitate to call the people that write these articles journalists, could just say that counting all of St. Louis County is no different than counting all of Jackson County, Missouri or Cook County, Illinois and decide that's not what they should use.  Then they just go back to using the statistics for the municipal district of St. Louis.  The flaw in your logic is assuming that the Better Together board and its ideas have any sway over someone writing an article.

When they write the articles the just copy and paste the information in the FBI  Uniform Crime Reports. The FBI would consider the combined city and county as one city. The FBI doesn’t compile crime information for municipal districts.

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9 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

https://tinyurl.com/y9ezrxm7

Just found this article on the Indy merger. Shows some expectations vs. results.

It is hard to tell anything without seeing the actual audit.  The consolidation could have actually saved the predicted amount or more if the numbers are not adjusted for inflation.  

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2 hours ago, brianstl said:

When they write the articles the just copy and paste the information in the FBI  Uniform Crime Reports. The FBI would consider the combined city and county as one city. The FBI doesn’t compile crime information for municipal districts.

Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow?  You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen.

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1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow?  You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen.

The won't split it up.  Local law enforcement agencies send it to the FBI and then the FBI reports what the numbers are for the whole area served by that local law enforcement agency.

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4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow?  You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Crime_Reports

Third paragraph down:

"The FBI does not collect the data itself. Rather, law enforcement agencies across the United States provide the data to the FBI, which then compiles the Reports."

 

 

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2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The won't split it up.  Local law enforcement agencies send it to the FBI and then the FBI reports what the numbers are for the whole area served by that local law enforcement agency.

If the merger goes through, and there are other concerns other than just this, then I hope you and this commission are right.

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1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

If the merger goes through, and there are other concerns other than just this, then I hope you and this commission are right.

I agree there are concerns that need to be addressed with the plan.  I am just afraid that both sides will be less than honest with the numbers they bring out.

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4 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

At this point why hasn’t Chaifetz bought Humps and just call it “Chaifetz pub”

Heard recently that SLU owns it

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13 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

At this point why hasn’t Chaifetz bought Humps and just call it “Chaifetz pub”

that could get real confusing. 

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

Maybe open it under a new name, Pestello's Pub

Idk, Title IX pub has a good ring to it, plus its already a household name for many st louisan's. 

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2 hours ago, wgstl said:

Idk, Title IX pub has a good ring to it, plus its already a household name for many st louisan's. 

Don't try to have Ladies Night there.

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23 minutes ago, almaman said:

Don't try to have Ladies Night there.

Just bring a stack of consent forms.....you'll be fine....

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8 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Just bring a stack of consent forms.....you'll be fine....

Not if they have been drinking.  That voids everything.

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33 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Not if they have been drinking.  That voids everything.

The Catch 22 of modern mating.

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38 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said:

Disappointing if true. 

City website still shows it owned by V&B properties 

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