The Wiz Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I heard the Coach's show tonight. A few points JC made were..... Question....How are we doing? ......JC...We are getting better particularly over the last 3 weeks. ...I would agree. The problem is our grade point is the same. We may be improving but so is everyone else...so in the end our grade is about the same. Now if you are an A- team and you are getting better and you remain at A- , that is acceptable. But when you are vacilliating between C- and D+ you need to be improving faster than everyone else.... not to mention it is easier to move up when you are below C than above it because the teams around you are not as good. Question...What about the Richmond game?...JC...They have one of the most unique defenses in the country. Very difficult to orepare for especially with only a couple of days. Their defense is constantly changing on the fly during the game. I think he is over thinking this. They may have a very unique defense that will take a lot of preparation but the bottomline is the numbers show that it isn't a very good defense. Instead of coming up with 50 diagrams to counter their defense...I would concentrate on shutting down their offense (their strength) ...particurlarly Allen and Cline. Question....What do we need to improve on the rest of the season?....JC...Getting rid of the lulls Hmm...I think he is referring to what I call dead zones. He should have come on to the Billikenboard a couple of months ago to see what was trending....I have moved on from harping about dead zones (lulls) and TO's to making 1/3 of 3 pt shots. No more 20% shooting nights. The general tone of the show was that there is so much to absorb....too much...so we have to simplfy...throw out a lot of stuff and that's why we are struggling....Still learning I just don't know if we (he) (the team) have enough time to get up to speed... The clock is ticking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Was Earl there tonight? If so, any talk of why he missed Olean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Was Earl there tonight? If so, any talk of why he missed Olean? No he was not there...They said he was still under the weather but that he would be back for Wed's game. Rammer and a fill in ran the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Wiz, i find your commentary throughout the year to be generally positive/supportive of JC. Would you say that you're in favor of keeping JC for next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Here's a question, with few exceptions it doesn't appear this team hasn't learned much of all since arriving on campus back in the fall of 2014, when do you expect the lights to go on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Wiz, i find your commentary throughout the year to be generally positive/supportive of JC. Would you say that you're in favor of keeping JC for next year? I am a positive / supportive of the Billiken program. I try to be objective and tell it like it is...using facts particularly numbers to make my case. When the numbers are good ...I point it out and when they are bad i point that out also. In the original post of this thread , I reported some of the highlights of the coach's show....but I also made comments regarding those questions which are critical of Crews.. In a number of post game analysis comments which are always on my spread threads,... when things don't work out I have used the term unacceptable a number of times as it relates to certain stats.... Implying fix this. That message is indirectly aimed at Crews.. We are a C-/D+ team. That is better than last year when we finished at D-. The C-/D+ designation wouldn't be bad in a conference like the Southwestern Conference (F). But we are a C-/D+ team in the A-10 a B+ conference.. I don't think we are that far off from being good again. I watched Welmer play in practice this year and he looked like he had potential. I think had he played this year, we would be a 500 team both in conference and overall...maybe boosting us to a C+. He will be a nice addition next year. But again for the 2nd year in a row we have under performed the conference grade...by a lot. I haven't answered your question yet. Am I in favor of Crews coming back next year? I could answer that as a statistician but instead I will answer as a season ticket holder. As a season ticket holder, I think he has to go. I think he knows basketball but is weak in recruiting and relating to players (communication) For ticket holders it is all about hope for the future and being competitive. If we don't make a change it will be very damaging to fan morale. I think the wheels of change are currently turning although not visible at this time. The operative word is patience at this point. As I said in the original post......The clock is ticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenbill Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good posts, Wiz. Thanks for crunching the numbers for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenboy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am a positive / supportive of the Billiken program. I try to be objective and tell it like it is...using facts particularly numbers to make my case. When the numbers are good ...I point it out and when they are bad i point that out also. In the original post of this thread , I reported some of the highlights of the coach's show....but I also made comments regarding those questions which are critical of Crews.. In a number of post game analysis comments which are always on my spread threads,... when things don't work out I have used the term unacceptable a number of times as it relates to certain stats.... Implying fix this. That message is indirectly aimed at Crews.. We are a C-/D+ team. That is better than last year when we finished at D-. The C-/D+ designation wouldn't be bad in a conference like the Southwestern Conference (F). But we are a C-/D+ team in the A-10 a B+ conference.. I don't think we are that far off from being good again. I watched Welmer play in practice this year and he looked like he had potential. I think had he played this year, we would be a 500 team both in conference and overall...maybe boosting us to a C+. He will be a nice addition next year. But again for the 2nd year in a row we have under performed the conference grade...by a lot. I haven't answered your question yet. Am I in favor of Crews coming back next year? I could answer that as a statistician but instead I will answer as a season ticket holder. As a season ticket holder, I think he has to go. I think he knows basketball but is weak in recruiting and relating to players (communication) For ticket holders it is all about hope for the future and being competitive. If we don't make a change it will be very damaging to fan morale. I think the wheels of change are currently turning although not visible at this time. The operative word is patience at this point. As I said in the original post......The clock is ticking. Wiz, I applaud you for your commitment to Billikendom. I am always happy to read your predictions and team analysis. With the emotional rollercoaster ride we are on as fans it is nice to get a clear and unbiased breakdown of where the team really is game by game. Thanks for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I agree it should take "some" time for kids to "get it" as they progress from level to level. I recall someone once applying a barometer --- I don't know if it was Al McGuire or Billy Packer or Jay Bilas or one of the other talking heads --- and attribution is immaterial --- but the point was the "getting it" was expected towards the end of the sophomore year, making the junior/senior years the best for expected peak performance. That gave rise to the belief that you needed three or so kids per class so your turnover was such that it only replaced the three graduating seniors and moved the sophs upward on the roster and through the system. Sustainability. Same person I also believe gave credence to the thought the college game was a guard's game and you always need a minimum of two capable point guards on your roster. In any case .... My three concerns with Crews are 1) he can't seem to identify talent, 2) he can't seem to develop talent and 3) I don't see him relating well to the roster. And unlike MB, I don't see it as logical to give him a pass on both of the recruiting classes before these current sophomores. I can let the Drew/Carter group go but not the current juniors as even if he didn't actually "want" them enough to recruit them, he still did not develop them any and they went on their merry ways. This supports fear #2 above. I've seen enough of Crews and have looked long and hard at his legacy. The status quo will not change with him at the helm. The biggest problem is that if someone does come in, they will be starting at the same scratch level Grawer did --- the Majerus stuff could all have happened in 1913 instead of 2013, it is ancient history right now and about as relevant as Ed McCauley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am a positive / supportive of the Billiken program. I try to be objective and tell it like it is...using facts particularly numbers to make my case. When the numbers are good ...I point it out and when they are bad i point that out also. In the original post of this thread , I reported some of the highlights of the coach's show....but I also made comments regarding those questions which are critical of Crews.. In a number of post game analysis comments which are always on my spread threads,... when things don't work out I have used the term unacceptable a number of times as it relates to certain stats.... Implying fix this. That message is indirectly aimed at Crews.. We are a C-/D+ team. That is better than last year when we finished at D-. The C-/D+ designation wouldn't be bad in a conference like the Southwestern Conference (F). But we are a C-/D+ team in the A-10 a B+ conference.. I don't think we are that far off from being good again. I watched Welmer play in practice this year and he looked like he had potential. I think had he played this year, we would be a 500 team both in conference and overall...maybe boosting us to a C+. He will be a nice addition next year. But again for the 2nd year in a row we have under performed the conference grade...by a lot. I haven't answered your question yet. Am I in favor of Crews coming back next year? I could answer that as a statistician but instead I will answer as a season ticket holder. As a season ticket holder, I think he has to go. I think he knows basketball but is weak in recruiting and relating to players (communication) For ticket holders it is all about hope for the future and being competitive. If we don't make a change it will be very damaging to fan morale. I think the wheels of change are currently turning although not visible at this time. The operative word is patience at this point. As I said in the original post......The clock is ticking. Great post and agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. I appreciate the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I am a positive / supportive of the Billiken program. I try to be objective and tell it like it is...using facts particularly numbers to make my case. When the numbers are good ...I point it out and when they are bad i point that out also. In the original post of this thread , I reported some of the highlights of the coach's show....but I also made comments regarding those questions which are critical of Crews.. In a number of post game analysis comments which are always on my spread threads,... when things don't work out I have used the term unacceptable a number of times as it relates to certain stats.... Implying fix this. That message is indirectly aimed at Crews.. We are a C-/D+ team. That is better than last year when we finished at D-. The C-/D+ designation wouldn't be bad in a conference like the Southwestern Conference (F). But we are a C-/D+ team in the A-10 a B+ conference.. I don't think we are that far off from being good again. I watched Welmer play in practice this year and he looked like he had potential. I think had he played this year, we would be a 500 team both in conference and overall...maybe boosting us to a C+. He will be a nice addition next year. But again for the 2nd year in a row we have under performed the conference grade...by a lot. I haven't answered your question yet. Am I in favor of Crews coming back next year? I could answer that as a statistician but instead I will answer as a season ticket holder. As a season ticket holder, I think he has to go. I think he knows basketball but is weak in recruiting and relating to players (communication) For ticket holders it is all about hope for the future and being competitive. If we don't make a change it will be very damaging to fan morale. I think the wheels of change are currently turning although not visible at this time. The operative word is patience at this point. As I said in the original post......The clock is ticking. Excellent post thank you for you comments I learn a lot from them. I do not know enough about basketball to state with any knowledge that the coach should be fired. Emotionally I think the coach should be fired because other than the last 3 weeks and the first 5 games of the season the team in my opinion got worse. I always hope for the best and I really like what I have seen lately from Reggie and Bishop. What concerns me going into next season is the bigs once again because I think it will be Reggie and everyone else seems to be just a guy. My hope was that Matt Neufeld would show something to give me hope for next year and I am still waiting. I will continue to cheer for the team until the last shot this year and I hope for more wins and to play spoiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I don't get the "we have to simplify it" theme. Its basketball. These guys have been plating it their whole lives. If they are not "getting it" you are not teaching it correctly or you picked the wrong players for your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I don't get the "we have to simplify it" theme. Its basketball. These guys have been plating it their whole lives. If they are not "getting it" you are not teaching it correctly or you picked the wrong players for your system. Maybe just the system and coaching style suck in modern basketball. Bobby Knight's last 12 seasons as a head coach only produced one sweet 16 and 1 conference finish above 3rd despite having 11 NBA draft picks and tons of other talented players. Even with top talent, this style of coaching produced underwhelming results over the last two decades. Knight's last four seasons at IU produced conference finishes of 6th, 5th, 3rd, 5th and a 2-4 record in the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 the Majerus stuff could all have happened in 1913 instead of 2013, it is ancient history right now and about as relevant as Ed McCauley. I really hope this isn't true. It feels like ages ago to me, but you talk to people who don't follow SLU basketball very closely and they still talk about how good they were so recently. Maybe wishful thinking, but surely that puts us in at least a little better shape than going 35 years between tourney appearances, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo027 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I really hope this isn't true. It feels like ages ago to me, but you talk to people who don't follow SLU basketball very closely and they still talk about how good they were so recently. Maybe wishful thinking, but surely that puts us in at least a little better shape than going 35 years between tourney appearances, right? +1 Our tourney trips are still very relevant. Fans and recruits know who SLU is. Current high schoolers were in 7th to 10th grade during the tourney trips and were watching. Go 10+ years without a tourney trip and we'll be unknown again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 +1 Our tourney trips are still very relevant. Fans and recruits know who SLU is. Current high schoolers were in 7th to 10th grade during the tourney trips and were watching. Go 10+ years without a tourney trip and we'll be unknown again. It helps get us on the map, but considering we can't close the deal on any of our top targets, I'm not sure it matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I heard the Coach's show tonight. A few points JC made were..... Question....How are we doing? ......JC...We are getting better particularly over the last 3 weeks. ...I would agree. The problem is our grade point is the same. We may be improving but so is everyone else...so in the end our grade is about the same. Now if you are an A- team and you are getting better and you remain at A- , that is acceptable. But when you are vacilliating between C- and D+ you need to be improving faster than everyone else.... not to mention it is easier to move up when you are below C than above it because the teams around you are not as good. Question...What about the Richmond game?...JC...They have one of the most unique defenses in the country. Very difficult to orepare for especially with only a couple of days. Their defense is constantly changing on the fly during the game. I think he is over thinking this. They may have a very unique defense that will take a lot of preparation but the bottomline is the numbers show that it isn't a very good defense. Instead of coming up with 50 diagrams to counter their defense...I would concentrate on shutting down their offense (their strength) ...particurlarly Allen and Cline. Question....What do we need to improve on the rest of the season?....JC...Getting rid of the lulls Hmm...I think he is referring to what I call dead zones. He should have come on to the Billikenboard a couple of months ago to see what was trending....I have moved on from harping about dead zones (lulls) and TO's to making 1/3 of 3 pt shots. No more 20% shooting nights. The general tone of the show was that there is so much to absorb....too much...so we have to simplfy...throw out a lot of stuff and that's why we are struggling....Still learning I just don't know if we (he) (the team) have enough time to get up to speed... The clock is ticking It is never good when the coach feels overwhelmed. The game has passed him by and that is all there is that can be said. We need a new coach like yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I agree it should take "some" time for kids to "get it" as they progress from level to level. I recall someone once applying a barometer --- I don't know if it was Al McGuire or Billy Packer or Jay Bilas or one of the other talking heads --- and attribution is immaterial --- but the point was the "getting it" was expected towards the end of the sophomore year, making the junior/senior years the best for expected peak performance. That gave rise to the belief that you needed three or so kids per class so your turnover was such that it only replaced the three graduating seniors and moved the sophs upward on the roster and through the system. Sustainability. Same person I also believe gave credence to the thought the college game was a guard's game and you always need a minimum of two capable point guards on your roster. In any case .... My three concerns with Crews are 1) he can't seem to identify talent, 2) he can't seem to develop talent and 3) I don't see him relating well to the roster. And unlike MB, I don't see it as logical to give him a pass on both of the recruiting classes before these current sophomores. I can let the Drew/Carter group go but not the current juniors as even if he didn't actually "want" them enough to recruit them, he still did not develop them any and they went on their merry ways. This supports fear #2 above. I've seen enough of Crews and have looked long and hard at his legacy. The status quo will not change with him at the helm. The biggest problem is that if someone does come in, they will be starting at the same scratch level Grawer did --- the Majerus stuff could all have happened in 1913 instead of 2013, it is ancient history right now and about as relevant as Ed McCauley. I disagree that whoever we hire as the new coach will be starting from scratch like Grawer found himself. While the talent level here now is not the greatest, these players are not all stiffs either. A good/successful coach is one who can adjust to the players he has not the players he wishes he had. The good coach goes out and gets the players he needs while still keeping the boat afloat. RM managed to demand the type of play he wanted and still kept the team above 500 which allowed him to go get the players he wanted. What Crews has done is sink the boat and not adjust to the players he brought in - one would have thought he would have recruited kids who could fit his system but instead we have seen just the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 -#dumpsterfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 +1 Our tourney trips are still very relevant. Fans and recruits know who SLU is. Current high schoolers were in 7th to 10th grade during the tourney trips and were watching. Go 10+ years without a tourney trip and we'll be unknown again. Then by your logic, Davidson, which produced NBA All-World phenom G Steph Curry, should have the top recruits in the country lining up to play for Bob McKillop. Yet they sit at a dismal 13-8 and a .500 mark in league play, which includes a loss to SLU, at publication time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Davidson's had three tourney appearances in the six seasons since Curry left. If that's dismal, I think I can live with it. Sure beats pre-Grawer SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I am a positive / supportive of the Billiken program. I try to be objective and tell it like it is...using facts particularly numbers to make my case. When the numbers are good ...I point it out and when they are bad i point that out also. In the original post of this thread , I reported some of the highlights of the coach's show....but I also made comments regarding those questions which are critical of Crews.. In a number of post game analysis comments which are always on my spread threads,... when things don't work out I have used the term unacceptable a number of times as it relates to certain stats.... Implying fix this. That message is indirectly aimed at Crews.. We are a C-/D+ team. That is better than last year when we finished at D-. The C-/D+ designation wouldn't be bad in a conference like the Southwestern Conference (F). But we are a C-/D+ team in the A-10 a B+ conference.. I don't think we are that far off from being good again. I watched Welmer play in practice this year and he looked like he had potential. I think had he played this year, we would be a 500 team both in conference and overall...maybe boosting us to a C+. He will be a nice addition next year. But again for the 2nd year in a row we have under performed the conference grade...by a lot. I haven't answered your question yet. Am I in favor of Crews coming back next year? I could answer that as a statistician but instead I will answer as a season ticket holder. As a season ticket holder, I think he has to go. I think he knows basketball but is weak in recruiting and relating to players (communication) For ticket holders it is all about hope for the future and being competitive. If we don't make a change it will be very damaging to fan morale. I think the wheels of change are currently turning although not visible at this time. The operative word is patience at this point. As I said in the original post......The clock is ticking. Wiz. Wow. You are sure high on Welmer!! This team would be .500 in conference and overall with Welmer? Really? Tell us more what you saw of him in practice. What type of player will he be similar to? Does he play defense? Not saying that Welmer does not have talent, but Neufeld had so much more hype and expectations... and Crews literally killed it. I refuse to believe that Neufeld is as bad as he has played for Crews. Wrong teacher/coach... negative environment.... but there is a problem when Jolly gets minutes and Neufeld does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wiz. Wow. You are sure high on Welmer!! This team would be .500 in conference and overall with Welmer? Really? Tell us more what you saw of him in practice. What type of player will he be similar to? Does he play defense? Not saying that Welmer does not have talent, but Neufeld had so much more hype and expectations... and Crews literally killed it. I refuse to believe that Neufeld is as bad as he has played for Crews. Wrong teacher/coach... negative environment.... but there is a problem when Jolly gets minutes and Neufeld does not. -I meant to comment on the Welmer thought by The Wiz as well, that is putting star status on a SLU frosh for him to make the difference to get to 500, our losses are by an average of 16pts per -I hope that is the case, however, that EW is a star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Maybe just the system and coaching style suck in modern basketball. Bobby Knight's last 12 seasons as a head coach only produced one sweet 16 and 1 conference finish above 3rd despite having 11 NBA draft picks and tons of other talented players. Even with top talent, this style of coaching produced underwhelming results over the last two decades. Knight's last four seasons at IU produced conference finishes of 6th, 5th, 3rd, 5th and a 2-4 record in the tournament. There are a lot of teams that run the motion offense, which by the way, goes back to Henry Iba. I'm sure Bill Self would be surprised to find out from this board that his Hi-Low Motion Offense doesn't cut it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 It helps get us on the map, but considering we can't close the deal on any of our top targets, I'm not sure it matters Our current coaching staff can't close the deal. A new staff is a different story. The situation now is incredibly different than when Grawer took over. Played in 6 NCAA tournament games in the last 5 years, beautiful arena, collect $1.3 million annually from the NCAA, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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