Broy’s favorite topic NBA Draft.

[willie]

Reed Sheppard of KY going number 3. Very talented player but I don’t see him as being a star. Too small and not that quick. But I guess you could have said that about Curry. Seems like a pretty weak overall draft with the exception of Bronny

[almaman]

remember when they started tv drafts & that's what we got. now it's like the friggin' olympics. I'll wait 4 manana's newspaper

[willie]

14 minutes ago, almaman said:

remember when they started tv drafts & that's what we got. now it's like the friggin' olympics. I'll wait 4 manana's newspaper

You won’t catch me watching. Saw it on ESPN.com. 

[HoosierPal]

Denver trades up to 22nd and picks Dayton's DaRon Holmes.  I guess they didn't read Taj's scouting report.  He could be banking around $15 million from his rookie contract.

France basketball once again has the #1 pick in Risacher, and the #2 pick in Sarr, who comes from France but played in Australia.  Add in pick #6, Salaun, and that is 3 of the  top 6.  And of course last year's #1, Wembanyama, came from France. Not bad from French basketball.

[Taj79]

As HP points out, I don't think much of Holmes.  Now it's a matter of just letting it play out to see who's right and who's wrong.  That's three Dayton bigs in the NBA.  Are any of them destined to be more than journeymen?

[ACE]

18 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

As HP points out, I don't think much of Holmes.  Now it's a matter of just letting it play out to see who's right and who's wrong.  That's three Dayton bigs in the NBA.  Are any of them destined to be more than journeymen?

I'd be thrilled if we produced three NBA "journeymen" bigs.

[Pistol]

Honestly, the recent Dayton NBA players have met or exceeded my expectations so far. Toppin (on his second team in four full seasons) appeared in all 82 games this year for Indiana and averaged about 11 PPG. Camara started 49 games for Portland as a rookie and averaged about 7.5 and 5 per game. I didn't expect him to play much at all. Kostas is now out of the league, but that's 4 draft picks for them since 2018. I'd take that for SLU, no question.

Denver seems like a good situation for a rookie. Not a ton of pressure playing behind the top starting 5 this past regular season and he's immediately on a title contender. Looking at the roster (and without knowing everyone's contract situation), there's a chance of a rookie big finding a decent role next season.

By the way, NBA journeyman is one of the best jobs in the world. That's now a gig that pays $10 million/year or more. Toppin's rookie scale contract just ended and he's now a restricted free agent with a $7.7 million one-year offer from Indiana on the table. (Free agency opens on the 30th and contracts can be signed starting July 6th, but Toppin and Indiana can begin negotiating at any time.)

[HoosierPal]

5 hours ago, Taj79 said:

As HP points out, I don't think much of Holmes.  Now it's a matter of just letting it play out to see who's right and who's wrong.  That's three Dayton bigs in the NBA.  Are any of them destined to be more than journeymen?

Interested in your definition of ‘who is right and who is wrong’. My guess is you will say ‘It is what I say it is.’
 

Holmes will pocket at a minimum $15 million in his pro career. If that is ‘wrong’ sign me up for wrong all the time. 

Your ‘One trick pony’ is on the cusp of a nice boast from his 4 year $22 million rookie contract (ave $5.5 m per year). Where would that number have to be for you to be 'right'?  The Pacers do want him back.  They have a salary cap issue to contend with, having Siakam and Haliburton on max contracts and Turner at $20m for next season.  If Toppin signs with another team, it won't be because the Pacers didn't want him.  It's because they can't afford the 'journeyman'.

[almaman]

would hope this result for all our players.

[Taj79]

@HoosierPal: in today's day and age of astronomical salaries, that even now are stretching down to D-1 players under the smokescreen of NIL, I don't even consider money to be any sort of barometer of success.  The whole first round salary slotting is a figment of the NBA PA scheme.  Fine by me.  Only time and consistent production will elevate an NBA bench/role/journeyman player to a winners status and that doesn't even approach superstar status.  All I've read on Holmes is how he improved his three point shooting and ballhandling this past year.  Those were both jokes.  He tallied 32 made three pointers this year ---- in 31 games.  What does that average out to?  Take your time, I'll wait.  I watched a lot of Dayton games this year  --- he shot from the top of the key when his defender dared him to.  He only launched 83 threes, under 3 per game.  His threes were not designed to win games but rather to show the NBA he got what it takes.  Again, we shall see.  

His ballhandling was only in play off a defensive rebound when no one challenged him coming down the court.  That's a far reach if and when a defender comes on him.  Again, we shall see.  According to NBA scouts in the Athletic and on ESPN, his weaknesses are defense and rebounding.  Denver's draft grade was B-minus.  He was a beast against A10 competition in the low blocks but anything outside of that was an adventure.  

NBA salaries are so out of context that measuring guys by what they make is a joke.  The bottom line is if you can rob them blind, rob them blind.  Nobody is going to go out of their way to say "oooh, we have just got to sign Obi Toppin.  He's the key."  Toppin average 10 ppg with 4 rpg and 1 3pm per game.  That doesn't seem like a lot of production for $5.5 million but that just my judgment.  Sure, you get the occasional spectacular dunk so if you like that, you like that.  

Holmes goes to a team that is solid with Jokic, Murray, Porter, Gordon, Jackson and Caldwell-Pope.  He won't need to do much to add to that lineup.  He shoudl be a marginal upgrade to DeAndre Jordan at the five, if he is a five.

[Taj79]

@ACE/Pistol:   And absolutely would I take such an NBA collective for SLU as Dayton has had.  The four mentioned are light year ahead of Jordan Goodwin.  

[HoosierPal]

4 hours ago, Taj79 said:

@HoosierPal: in today's day and age of astronomical salaries, that even now are stretching down to D-1 players under the smokescreen of NIL, I don't even consider money to be any sort of barometer of success.  The whole first round salary slotting is a figment of the NBA PA scheme.  Fine by me.  Only time and consistent production will elevate an NBA bench/role/journeyman player to a winners status and that doesn't even approach superstar status.  All I've read on Holmes is how he improved his three point shooting and ballhandling this past year.  Those were both jokes.  He tallied 32 made three pointers this year ---- in 31 games.  What does that average out to?  Take your time, I'll wait.  I watched a lot of Dayton games this year  --- he shot from the top of the key when his defender dared him to.  He only launched 83 threes, under 3 per game.  His threes were not designed to win games but rather to show the NBA he got what it takes.  Again, we shall see.  

His ballhandling was only in play off a defensive rebound when no one challenged him coming down the court.  That's a far reach if and when a defender comes on him.  Again, we shall see.  According to NBA scouts in the Athletic and on ESPN, his weaknesses are defense and rebounding.  Denver's draft grade was B-minus.  He was a beast against A10 competition in the low blocks but anything outside of that was an adventure.  

NBA salaries are so out of context that measuring guys by what they make is a joke.  The bottom line is if you can rob them blind, rob them blind.  Nobody is going to go out of their way to say "oooh, we have just got to sign Obi Toppin.  He's the key."  Toppin average 10 ppg with 4 rpg and 1 3pm per game.  That doesn't seem like a lot of production for $5.5 million but that just my judgment.  Sure, you get the occasional spectacular dunk so if you like that, you like that.  

Holmes goes to a team that is solid with Jokic, Murray, Porter, Gordon, Jackson and Caldwell-Pope.  He won't need to do much to add to that lineup.  He shoudl be a marginal upgrade to DeAndre Jordan at the five, if he is a five.

You don't watch the NBA, do you?  How many games did you watch Toppin play with the Pacers?  You have no idea of his game. There were three players in the NBA this season with 100+ dunks and 100+ three pointers made.  Two were Chet Holgren and Victor Wembanyama.  Guess the third.

Please give me the author of the quote "ooh, we have just go to sign Obi Toppin".  You made me laugh on that one.  NBA salaries are so out of context that measuring guys by what they make is a joke.  What do you want to measure players?  By points and rebounds and assists?  By NBA Titles?  Performance is what drives salaries.  You produce, you get paid. It's called a free market.  Pro basketball is entertainment, the same as college sports.  If the viewers watch, the dollars will be there. 

On Holmes,  His threes were not designed to win games but rather to show the NBA he got what it takes.  That's a good one, where did you get it from?  Grant tell you this during a one on one conversation?  Did the NBA scouts you talk to through your player evaluation service tell you this?  If you watched Dayton, you will know that they didn't need Holmes to shoot three's.  That had Brea, Bennett and Elvis to do that.  Taking 2.5 per game was fine.  Hitting 39% is pretty solid for a big, in my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion on Holmes and Toppin.  The NBA has an alternate opinion on each player that differs from yours.

"One trick pony"....that will be hard to top.

[slufan13]

[Midtown Madness]

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[billikenfan05]

We're talking about a league that once drafted Michael Olowakandi first overall. NBA has always drafted off athleticism, size and potential when it comes to more traditional front court players. I stopped trying to understand NBA Drafts years ago, and that's okay. 

[SLU_Lax]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

We're talking about a league that once drafted Michael Olowakandi first overall. NBA has always drafted off athleticism, size and potential when it comes to more traditional front court players. I stopped trying to understand NBA Drafts years ago, and that's okay. 

You leave the Kandi Man alone.....poor guy was a physical specimen except for his knees.  In all seriousness though, I will note that is a tough one to cite because he did not fail in my mind.....his knees did.  He is no Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russel (sp?).  I do not watch enough NBA to know who is a draft bust because of physical problems instead of mental problems or poor shooting or any of that.  The UNLV big man is probably the one to pick on for just failing (Cav's top pick?).  Either way, I think it is clear from my post that I rarely watch the NBA anymore.  I did watch the Finals this year.

[Midtown Madness]

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[Old guy]

Drafting into professional leagues (NBA, WNBA) is more than drafting for great players or athletically gifted players. We are taking about viewers and MONEY. Take the WNBA, it had been going on since it started with around 200,000 to 300,000 viewers per game. They draft Caitlin Clarke and now her games are getting 2,000,000 to 3.000,000 viewers per game. The TV revenue is going straight up. She may be whatever she may be, but she is certainly bringing in tons of money to the league. THAT is what they are after.

[slufan13]

 

 

[HoosierPal]

5 hours ago, slufan13 said:

 

 

I guess @Taj79 was right.  A one trick journeyman getting only $15 million a year for 4 years (wait, I'll do the math for you = $60,000,000) is a just plain sad. It will be tough for Toppin to get by on that salary.  He should have stayed in school and got his degree. 

[Taj79]

If paying $15 million per year makes sense for 10 ppg/4 rpg then count in the maniac's section.  If you want to measure success by contracts, be my guest.   Success to me is multiple NBA titles and inclusion in the Hall of Fame.  Toppin will likely get neither.  

[willie]

15 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

If paying $15 million per year makes sense for 10 ppg/4 rpg then count in the maniac's section.  If you want to measure success by contracts, be my guest.   Success to me is multiple NBA titles and inclusion in the Hall of Fame.  Toppin will likely get neither.  

So I guess by your standards 90-95% of the NBA players are not successful. 

[almaman]

whatever all I want is $$$$ for JG,  he should get more than nothing if that guy. gets that kind of bread

[HoosierPal]

10 hours ago, Taj79 said:

If paying $15 million per year makes sense for 10 ppg/4 rpg then count in the maniac's section.  If you want to measure success by contracts, be my guest.   Success to me is multiple NBA titles and inclusion in the Hall of Fame.  Toppin will likely get neither.  

Wow.  I didn't know that Pacer great, Reggie Miller, was  failure in your eyes?  Or perhaps better stated he was not a success in the NBA.  He is in the NBA Hall of Fame, was a five time All Star, named to the 75th Year Anniversary Team, the fifth most 3's made in NBA history, but doesn't have a title.  Shame on Reggie for not meeting your standards of success.

Do you take yourself seriously?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you are just waaaay out there.  You did give us your definition of success which I did request. 

I would suggest that if you want to discuss the NBA, you watch some actual games, more than ESPN highlights. This discussion needs to be over.

[Taj79]

I didn't say a damn thing abo0ut Reggie Miller but you go ahead and put words in my mouth.  Not everything is cut and dried.  Each individual needs to be evaluated on their record of production.  Some might be light in some measures, heavy in others.  Trying to draw a line from Obi Toppin to Reggie Miller is just asinine but you go ahead. Didn't Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright win titles because they happened to play with two of the greatest ballplayers that ever lived?  They're not in the Hall of Fame.  Wilt won what?  Two titles (I think) but you can't argue with his body of work.  Pro sports is just another option for my disposable entertainment dollar and as such, I don't partake.  I'm long past 12 years old.