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STL Today Prep All Decade Team

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

these rankings are worthless.   just look where the worthless tilmon is ranked.   i dont know if i ever saw tilmon be the best player on the floor.   one of the most overrated high school players of all time.  

Maybe but I can’t really argue with the first 4 listed.

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3 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

These lists are never going to satisfy everyone and aren't worth spending much time arguing, but mad props to the writer from the PD who was successfully able to agitate two guys who will make over $200 million playing a sport. Terrific stuff Mr. Kvidahl. Hopefully they can use being slighted by this list as fuel whenever the NBA returns to action, prove the haters wrong Chaminade boys! 

Reading the Twitter thread, I thought Tatum was not so much upset about Liddell getting Player of the Decade over himself and Beal, but rather upset that Roosevelt Jones got first team over BJ Young, Cam Biedscheid, and Caleb Love. Tatum gave a take somewhere - I forget where - about how Biedscheid was a guy who was so good (in HS) but didn't pan out.

It's just funny to think that Tatum's NBA game is so mature, yet he's still a 22 year old getting fired up about a dumb list by the St Louis Post Dispatch 

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If you’re splitting hairs between Liddell and Tatum, probably give the nod to the future NBA HOFer who always goes out of his way to rep St. Louis 

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I wish I could respond to Mr. Kvidahl but he blocked me on twitter years back in an argument over Goodwin being on the 3rd team all metro his sr season.

Several problems with the list.

Liddell is not Player of the Decade.  Clearly Tatum and Beal are ahead of him.  I think he gets credit because he plays in Illinois and they have more talent than MO.  While they do have more talent, because there are more people, Illinois HS basketball especially in Chicago has been waning.  It will come back but the public schools aren't churning out superstars like they used to and their teams aren't nationally ranked as highly or as much.  The landscape in Chicago just doesn't have the concentration of players anymore.  Peoria's peak was years ago, same with Champaign.  Liddell won 2 state title but Illinois basketball is just weaker.  The best case for that is Liddell a borderline top 50 recruit being the top player in the state 2 years in a row.  Tatum was a National player of the year.  He is the player of the decade.  Beal was also better than Liddell.

Jones doesn't belong on the 1st team.  Even by their own criteria.  He only made 1 first team all metro.  He was never POTY.  He was very good but c'mon.  Young, Hill, Cam, were all better HS players.  Goodwin was better than him.

Goodwin is criminally underrated.  I argued with Kvidahl when he was a senior.  Goodwin before his injury was the clear POTY.  He played 2/3 of the games, his team was very very good ready to make another state run and had a chance at winning in class 4.  To get relegated to 3rd team was a joke.  If Goodwin hadn't gotten hurt this is his resume, 1 state, 1 state runner up with another possible final 4 run, 3 1st team all metros, led area in scoring his sr year by a wide margin.  He wasn't credited for his sr year at the time and still isn't.  Frankly Goodwin's case as player of the decade if he doesn't miss time is stronger than Liddell's.  

BJ Young should be on the list.  He only played 1 year but so did Jones at least in the list's criteria.  Young beat the 2nd best player of the decade head to head.  

I was glad that Tatum and Beal called out this list.  A lot of the local hoopheads weighed in and called it trash which it is.  

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Goodwin was not as good of a high school player as Liddell.   Not even close.   

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Anybody hear him with Frank this morning?

Curious what Frank had to say about his list. I’ll give it a listen tomorrow.

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If you listen to the interview with Frank they talk slightly about the criteria being most accomplished high school career.  While I agree that Tatum is the more talented player, Lidell's resume is more impressive to me.  Liddell went back to back with 1 low D1 teammate the first year and no D1 teammates his senior year.  Tatum played with 4 D1 dudes, including another NBA player and couldn't win 2 titles.  And the teams that Tatum lost to his soph/junior year didn't go on to win it.  Meanwhile Liddell went through Chicago.  Tatum better player, Liddell accomplished more. 

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Tatum was an awesome high school player but he was miscast as a point forward in high school.  His teammates were often relegated to watching him go one-on-one in crunch time.  Those Chaminade squads were too talented to stand around watching one guy.  

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Going purely off of eye test, I thought Beal was a much more dominant high school player than Tatum.

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i'm not by any means saying liddell was a better solo player than either while in high school, but he isnt as far behind them as some of you are acting.   you that think that, never saw liddell play enough imo.   i saw all of them a lot in high school and while i agree he would rank third in talent, it wouldnt be a runaway.    he is easily the most physically strong and the best jumper/athlete, liddell just lacks the outside shooting to the level that those two had developed in high school already.   but even then he wasnt french terrible shooting away from the basket either, just not as good as either tatum or beal were.  

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-I listened to Frank and Kvidahl and the reasons for the selections make a lot of sense imo, Kvidahl presents his views nicely, well done by a SLU grad 

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On 5/12/2020 at 12:35 PM, NH said:

Going purely off of eye test, I thought Beal was a much more dominant high school player than Tatum.

Pretty sure I saw Beal drop 45 points vs. Rose Jones and my O’Fallon Panthers at Chaifetz one time. He was lights out. 

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13 hours ago, majerus mojo said:

Pretty sure I saw Beal drop 45 points vs. Rose Jones and my O’Fallon Panthers at Chaifetz one time. He was lights out. 

I'll never understand how that last Beal team lost in sectionals his senior year (2011). 27-0 and then stunned by McCluer North. All due respect to McCluer North - they were the eventual champs - but man, I didn't think that team was going to lose a game.

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10 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'll never understand how that last Beal team lost in sectionals his senior year (2011). 27-0 and then stunned by McCluer North. All due respect to McCluer North - they were the eventual champs - but man, I didn't think that team was going to lose a game.

Wasn't Beal in some foul trouble or am I misremembering that? That district game against Webster at Webster was a battle (Rayshawn Simmons had 30+ and Beal had 40+). If I remember correctly, they were just blowing most teams out and only had a few remotely close games that season. Definitely really surprising they didn't win state that season.

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22 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Wasn't Beal in some foul trouble or am I misremembering that? That district game against Webster at Webster was a battle (Rayshawn Simmons had 30+ and Beal had 40+). If I remember correctly, they were just blowing most teams out and only had a few remotely close games that season. Definitely really surprising they didn't win state that season.

The game was actually at the exact same time as a SLU game, so I was at Chaifetz and getting texts from the Chaminade game.

The write-up says Beal went to the bench with 4 fouls after the third quarter. Chaminade led after each of the first three. MN went on a 9-0 run to start the fourth, Beal came back in with Chaminade down 4, and they just couldn't close.

B.J. Young went nuts in the second half, scoring 27 of his 32. Beal had 30. Chaminade had beaten them by 18 a few weeks earlier.

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

When you have a team that is so reliant on the scoring of one guy, crazy upsets will happen.

Which is why it is surprising to me that Bradley Beal and Chaminade went undefeated that season. And not only were they undefeated, but they rolled over everybody on their schedule. I found the results from that season and they only had 3 regular season games where they only won by single digits with an average score of 76-51. Then in the playoffs they beat SLUH by 26, had a battle with Webster Groves winning by 4, beat Marquette by 29, and then lost to McCluer North by 1. And in that final game, Beal still went for 30 (11-19 from the field) and Chaminade led heading into the 4th (looks like free throws may have been a factor as Chaminade was just 8-15 while McCluer North was 17-24). I didn't see the game, so I don't have any hot takes. Crazy how dominate Bradley Beal was. I don't remember the quality of the local competition at that point, so this obviously doesn't factor any of that in.

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2 hours ago, Pistol said:

I'll never understand how that last Beal team lost in sectionals his senior year (2011). 27-0 and then stunned by McCluer North. All due respect to McCluer North - they were the eventual champs - but man, I didn't think that team was going to lose a game.

Looking back, it's crazy that Chaminade was 27-0 at that point. Beal's supporting cast was nothing to write home about (no disrespect to Luke Baumgartner and Brendan Kelly). That they had so much success til that point is a testament to how dominant Beal was. BJ Young was the best player on the floor that day, and that was impossible for Chaminade to overcome.

For what it's worth, that Mccluer North team went back and won the championship again the next year. 

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I was at both the McCluer North-Chaminade games.  North had quite a run with Randy Reed.  They would have the big star but he could also run out 10,11 even 12 deep of guys who could all play and defend.  North was too deep for Chaminade that day.  In the first game Reed assigned just 2 defenders to Beal the whole game.  2nd game he rotated almost every possession.  Guys were fighting on North for a chance to take him on.  Beal had a great game but it worked.  North also had Jordon Granger clogging up the middle and rebounded much better than Chaminade down the stretch.  

A North team with zero stars gave Tatum his closest game in the playoffs his sr year.  They got Cook into foul trouble, ran Gladson all over the court and guarded Tatum 1 on 1 with rotating players all game.  Single possession game the final quarter.  Tatum got a steal in the last minute and made Fts and won by 6 or 8.  Biggest scare Chaminade had all year as well.

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On 5/14/2020 at 10:12 PM, thetorch said:

I was at both the McCluer North-Chaminade games.  North had quite a run with Randy Reed.  They would have the big star but he could also run out 10,11 even 12 deep of guys who could all play and defend.  North was too deep for Chaminade that day.  In the first game Reed assigned just 2 defenders to Beal the whole game.  2nd game he rotated almost every possession.  Guys were fighting on North for a chance to take him on.  Beal had a great game but it worked.  North also had Jordon Granger clogging up the middle and rebounded much better than Chaminade down the stretch.  

A North team with zero stars gave Tatum his closest game in the playoffs his sr year.  They got Cook into foul trouble, ran Gladson all over the court and guarded Tatum 1 on 1 with rotating players all game.  Single possession game the final quarter.  Tatum got a steal in the last minute and made Fts and won by 6 or 8.  Biggest scare Chaminade had all year as well.

Randy Reed wasn't even the coach Tatum's senior year either. Trevor Laney had taken over at that point. Watched North play this past year against Hazelwood Central. Looked like a young team. Barely any guys over 6'2. 

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