Off-season talk

[HenryB]

11 minutes ago, davidnark said:

The talk of who is going to contribute and not contribute based upon projected skill sets is being over-simplified to assume match-ups are static. There are certain games during which Bishop's quick handle and outside shooting may be necessary to compete; there are other games where we may need Welmer's ability to block shots or use his stretch jumper to open the middle. This doesn't mean they will start or get significant minutes every game, but we should be thrilled that our staff has a deep bench of highly-capable players who bring different skills. This can only increase the likelihood that we can compete against good teams regardless of competitor's strengths and style of play. 

+1 well stated 

[ACE]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

I'm beginning to get the feeling we're going to see more of Bishop and Roby than was the thinking 5 months ago. Coach does mention them a lot in these interviews, which must mean something. Also, I really thought with the incoming transfers and FR that Bishop might get antsy and hop the next plane back to NYC after second semester. Didn't happen, but I speculate he and Ford had a sit down to discuss his future w/ the Billikens, and Ford convinced him to stay.

In fairness to Broy, most on here didn't think any of Dead's recruits were worth much after watching them play two seasons. But in fairness to Bishop and Roby they had a lousy supporting cast and zero coaching. Bishop did earn all A10 honors after all and Roby did rise to the occasion last season. It's too bad we didn't get to see more of Bishop his SO year in order to give us a better feel for what we really have in him.  Ford has made the assessment, however, and I'm thinking he gave him a higher grade than we have. Here's hoping Bishop is a factor this season. You can never have enough skilled players on your roster.  

The purge of the players from the previous regime has already taken place, so for some on here to continue to fight that battle is petty and unfair to the kids that remain. I'm happy with the ones that remain and more importantly Ford seems to be as well. I'm not suggesting any of them will be stars (so don't misrepresent what I'm saying) but I think they are all capable of filling roles and blending in with the newcomers to form a winning team. A kid like Roby, for example, I give him credit for sticking around. So many kids now bail when there is some adversity. It would be especially cool for a kid like that after three rough years to get a taste of the NCAA Tourney his senior season. He was drawn to SLU after seeing RM's team beat his hometown Memphis team. I'm sure that is what he was hoping to be a part of, instead of the show of his first two years. The kid deserves a lot of credit last year to help the team win 6 conference games, plus a tournament game. Without him, we could have been staring at a winless conference season. Ford clearly appreciates his contributions during a transition year This is a kid we should be rooting for.

[slubillikens43]

18 minutes ago, brianstl said:

10 of those points, 5 of those rebounds, 4 of those assists, and 3 of those steals came after the Billikens were down by 28 points in the second half.  The Shockers had empty their bench already at that point.  Shamet, McDuffie, and Frankamp all played 20 minutes or less in that game.

Gotcha. I wasn't aware of that. Even though not matched up against those guys its a decent stat line. I'm gonna put trust in Coach that he knows what hes doing with this group.

[HoosierPal]

50 minutes ago, Pistol said:

This is probably why Bishop has become the most controversial player to predict during this offseason. He was a real spark as a freshman once Crews cut him loose early in the A10 season. He was also a horrible defender. We haven't seen him play since 12/11/16, and he was mostly productive but really inconsistent in those first 9 games last season: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3913184/jermaine-bishop

Looking at his game log and stats from last season, how can you really predict who that player is going to be on a much different, much deeper roster?

Same can be said for Graves.  His PPG numbers define inconsistency.  18, 6, 2, 6, 3, 0 ,13, 3, 6, 2, 0. The outliers appear to be the 18 and 13 points.  Hard to predict what he will be on a roster deeper than Boston College had last year.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, Glorydays2013 said:

Aaron Hines? Thats why he is AD, by which he goes by according to the staff and himself... We have had this discussion before...

dah correct.my bad bored today, eclipse crash day

[Pistol]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Same can be said for Graves.  His PPG numbers define inconsistency.  18, 6, 2, 6, 3, 0 ,13, 3, 6, 2, 0. The outliers appear to be the 18 and 13 points.  Hard to predict what he will be on a roster deeper than Boston College had last year.

That's fair, but with a couple caveats:

-We have one extra year of data for Bishop.

-Graves was edged out by another player at his position in the same class, an all-conference freshman PG.

So while there is uncertainty around him, as well, Bishop was playing 32.2 MPG before he got injured last season and had no competition at his position.

[almaman]

just a thought on duplicates already said something stupid on this today so maybe been shot down before, maybe the new one or lesser could go by their # ?

[wgstl]

12 minutes ago, almaman said:

just a thought on duplicates already said something stupid on this today so maybe been shot down before, maybe the new one or lesser could go by their # ?

luckily AD goes by that, otherwise AD would be AH and Hines would be AH25.  Or AD would be AH#1 and Hines AH#2

[thetorch]

3 hours ago, ACE said:

When the stats, which you originally brought up, turn out to not really support your argument... I guess the move is to then call that stat a "poor barometer" and proceed to more subjective measures. And then lecture others about twisting stats around to prove a point. 

I didn't bring them up.

Bishop having a good Assist to To ratio gets repeatedly brought up.  I've continued to shoot down that assertion as false.

Then of course the strawman is presented bringing up other players Assist to TO ratio, which I also show as false.

Show me statistically why Bishop has any chance of being better than the 8th man in the rotation please.

[thetorch]

5 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Coach listed Roby as third on his list in the '8 seconds left' question on radio.  Now, the assumption is that Coach, in fact, listed the players in order, but perhaps he was just talking without considering this a true order. Probably reading too much into this single statement, as we all do with everything Coach says or doesn't say.  I also assume that if Bishop wasn't in his current thoughts on rotation, he wouldn't have included him in the remark.

The Fast Lane asked Coach "if there are 8 seconds left on the clock and you have the ball, who do you call the play for?"  He answered, in this order, Goodwin, AD, Roby, Bess and Bishop.

 

I've seen this posted several times now.

In what scenario are Goodwin, AD, Roby, & Bess not all on the floor in a tight game with 8 seconds?  So when exactly will Bishop be the crunchtime guy?  Ford is just naming his entire guard rotation.

What Ford is saying is Bishop is relative on this team to a Senior Cassity or Jake Barnett role.  This is not a endorsement of Bishop in any way.

 

[3star_recruit]

14 minutes ago, thetorch said:

 

I've seen this posted several times now.

In what scenario are Goodwin, AD, Roby, & Bess not all on the floor in a tight game with 8 seconds?  So when exactly will Bishop be the crunchtime guy?  Ford is just naming his entire guard rotation.

What Ford is saying is Bishop is relative on this team to a Senior Cassity or Jake Barnett role.  This is not a endorsement of Bishop in any way.

 

In what scenario is a 85% free throw shooter on the floor with 8 seconds?  Is this a trick question?

There are definitely times where you bench, say Bess, in a two point game with 8 seconds.  If Bishop has been shooting well and Bess is 2/10, you definitely play Bishop.

[thetorch]

22 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

In what scenario is a 85% free throw shooter on the floor with 8 seconds?  Is this a trick question?

There are definitely times where you bench, say Bess, in a two point game with 8 seconds.  If Bishop has been shooting well and Bess is 2/10, you definitely play Bishop.

Read the question again please.

Who do you call the play for?  Not who shoots free throws.  Who gets the ball to make the final play.  Not some silly offense for defense substitution when we are up 11 points with 1:30 left.

If Bess shot 2/10 in a game, Bishop has played 2 minutes.  He doesn't get in the final seconds.

[TFord and TRavs]

Mizzou's non conference schedule just got released. Because I'm sure people here would love for me to be wrong, I think we might have a similar/ slightly better non-conference schedule than they do. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

4 hours ago, Pistol said:

DJ, DF, and DJF all work for me.

No clue about MP; I'm sure the walk-on picture will change in the next two months. I just hope none of them have initials that are already featured on the roster.

You still haven't resolved how, in your previous post, you list "JB" as equaling Javon Bess and then later say it equals Jermaine Bishop.  Confusion reigns.

[HenryB]

2 hours ago, thetorch said:

I didn't bring them up.

Bishop having a good Assist to To ratio gets repeatedly brought up.  I've continued to shoot down that assertion as false.

Then of course the strawman is presented bringing up other players Assist to TO ratio, which I also show as false.

Show me statistically why Bishop has any chance of being better than the 8th man in the rotation please.

Uh....yes...you did bring them.  In case you forgot your own words, here they are:

(from thetorch)

"Please don't blatantly lie.

Bishop's career A/TO ratio is 1.35/1.  Paltry for a PG.  Especially so since he is a jump shooter and rarely looks to finish at the rim."

 

You clearly used assist to turnover ratio to denigrate Bishop. I pointed out to you that Bishop has a higher A/TO ratio than Kwamain Mitchell had his first two years.  You then begin arguing that A/T0 ratio is not important.  You shockingly now say that you never said it.....huh????    I don't know if you ever participated in a debate class but I can assure you it is a very poor strategy to destroy your own argument.  I have no problem with you taking a position on an issue but don't deny that you said something when it is available for all to see what you clearly stated.

[BIG BILL FAN]

7 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

your reasoning and rhetoric gets more stupid by the post.    not sure where this little gem came from.    you are a strange, sad person if your only purpose here is to attack me with far reaching no basis statements like this.    seek help.  

Hey loser, when you state that you will be glad when there is no evidence of them being here, that is about as disgusting as you can get. Don't really see how that statement can be defended. I call you a bigot, because your sole reason for not liking them is because they were recruited by Crews. 

[thetorch]

12 minutes ago, HenryB said:

Uh....yes...you did bring them.  In case you forgot your own words, here they are:

(from thetorch)

"Please don't blatantly lie.

Bishop's career A/TO ratio is 1.35/1.  Paltry for a PG.  Especially so since he is a jump shooter and rarely looks to finish at the rim."

 

You clearly used assist to turnover ratio to denigrate Bishop. I pointed out to you that Bishop has a higher A/TO ratio than Kwamain Mitchell had his first two years.  You then begin arguing that A/T0 ratio is not important.  You shockingly now say that you never said it.....huh????    I don't know if you ever participated in a debate class but I can assure you it is a very poor strategy to destroy your own argument.  I have no problem with you taking a position on an issue but don't deny that you said something when it is available for all to see what you clearly stated.

You've made my ignore list now.  I'm not arguing with someone who refuses to read posts.

I responded to a post from Big Bills fan who claimed Bishop had a respectable Assist/TO ratio which he clearly does not.  You brought up Mitchell and I explained why that doesn't apply. 

Anyone have any statistical evidence to show Bishop is an even average A10 starting guard?  Anyone? Bueller?  

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Hey loser, when you state that you will be glad when there is no evidence of them being here, that is about as disgusting as you can get. Don't really see how that statement can be defended. I call you a bigot, because your sole reason for not liking them is because they were recruited by Crews. 

loser?   Yeah you are the reasonable one.   Again  seek professional help.

 if you want to cling to the crews regime that's your problem.  Not mine.   It's about to become a lot more fun at Chaifetz and no thanks to crews.   

[TFord and TRavs]

7 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

loser?   Yeah you are the reasonable one.   Again  seek professional help.

 if you want to cling to the crews regime that's your problem.  Not mine.   It's about to become a lot more fun at Chaifetz and no thanks to crews.   

Retweet. But no one has any comments on how our non conference compares to Mizzou? It seems like ours is better 

[HenryB]

26 minutes ago, thetorch said:

You've made my ignore list now.  I'm not arguing with someone who refuses to read posts.

I responded to a post from Big Bills fan who claimed Bishop had a respectable Assist/TO ratio which he clearly does not.  You brought up Mitchell and I explained why that doesn't apply. 

Anyone have any statistical evidence to show Bishop is an even average A10 starting guard?  Anyone? Bueller?  

Awww.....I am crushed.  You get presented with facts that turn your own argument against yourself and your response is to pitch a little hissy fit and run away.  Bye bye.

[Franchise_08]

22 minutes ago, TFord and TRavs said:

Retweet. But no one has any comments on how our non conference compares to Mizzou? It seems like ours is better 

Nope and I don't care

[TFord and TRavs]

2 minutes ago, Franchise_08 said:

Nope and I don't care

We'll its an indication that Mizzou could benefit from having a game with us in nonconference to help their strength of schedule 

[Old guy]

6 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

There is an interesting book, "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff.  I picked it up in Grad School.  You are correct, if you don't like someone's use of a stat, you can easily find something, or display the data differently, to back up your point. 

That is why all of these predictive ranking systems are less than perfect, statistics are a science that works for very large numbers of similar events, it is not really applicable to individual cases.

[BIG BILL FAN]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

loser?   Yeah you are the reasonable one.   Again  seek professional help.

 if you want to cling to the crews regime that's your problem.  Not mine.   It's about to become a lot more fun at Chaifetz and no thanks to crews.   

Seek professional help????? I'm not the one who still is obsessing over a fired coach. Things were pretty fun when Coach Majerus was here too, but that didn't seem to help you shut your mouth then either. You win Roy, it's a waste of time trying to argue with a man who is so enraged with a former coach that he is unable to accept one of his former recruits. I'm sure it's going to pain you deeply every time a "Crews" player sees the floor, much less score a point for SLU. 

[billiken_roy]

This is where you are wrong.  I would love they contribute.  I just believe they are far behind what ford has brought to the program.  If they are deeply  in the mix then I believe our success will be limited and our new players were not as good as most of us expected.

 

If they truly are as good as you apparently believe and we win the conference go to the tourney and they get drafted next summer that would be a great happening.  (Before you get all p!ssy about that hyperbole please I am just using the previous as exageration)  They will be immortalized in billiken history and honestly I'll be thrilled.    

Last I again want defend my crews venom.  I have now lived through the two worst coaches and periods in billiken history.  Ekker  and crews made some terrible moments for us.  Not only do I believe  crews was the worst of the two he somehow took the program when it was the highest in the program history and destroyed it almost immediately.

 

 I just cannot fathom how that happens and even more so how Any rabid fan can even remotely accept or tolerate it.  Excuse me if from a fandom standpoint I still boil from that happening.