Recruiting - 2014

[JMM28]

+1 kshoe. I don't see an obvious candidate for an extra ride next year. I doubt Manning/Glaze would leave unless they somehow are on track to graduate and use that transfer rule which is highly unlikely. McBroom would have to go D2 or lose another year.

Obviously one of the freshmen could get homesick/hate it/suck terribly/run a train/whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the case right now.

I am sure the staff will still be out recruiting for 2014 regardless. I doubt they will put too much effort if they get a 6th LOI in November.

[Pistol]

It's just so early to start speculating who may leave in 8-12 months from now, if anyone.

Like someone said above, the days of saving scholarships should be long gone. If something very late and unforeseen happens and you wind up with an extra, well, that happens.

I'm also not a proponent of overcommitting, and I think it's one of the uglier trends in big-time college sports because you may very well wind up coming around to the end of the season and have more guys signed up for next year than allowable (see: Washington State, the reason we got Lancona).

My ideal strategy: fill all commitments heading in to each season. If someone says he's leaving, go out and recruit. We've all seen how fast we can go from introduction to commitment on some of these kids: Roby and Reynolds from this class are prime examples. No need to over- or undercommit with the amount of talent out there at any given time.

[Clock_Tower]

It's just so early to start speculating who may leave in 8-12 months from now, if anyone.

Like someone said above, the days of saving scholarships should be long gone. If something very late and unforeseen happens and you wind up with an extra, well, that happens.

I'm also not a proponent of overcommitting, and I think it's one of the uglier trends in big-time college sports because you may very well wind up coming around to the end of the season and have more guys signed up for next year than allowable (see: Washington State, the reason we got Lancona).

My ideal strategy: fill all commitments heading in to each season. If someone says he's leaving, go out and recruit. We've all seen how fast we can go from introduction to commitment on some of these kids: Roby and Reynolds from this class are prime examples. No need to over- or undercommit with the amount of talent out there at any given time.

I agree. When a program has the right salesman (Coach/staff) and the right product (winning program, etc.), the recruiting results are positive and long relationships are not needed. While some kids may be swayed by the coach/program that offered him first, showed him the most interest, etc. we have seen countless examples dating back to Brad's tenure at SLU where being first, etc. didn't matter -- especially if the school was a BCS school or a name school. Most recently, just ask LSU what being the first, etc. did for them -- then, again, LSU signed another guard and over-filled their roster so maybe they backed off Miles Reynolds.

Nonetheless, our program and coaching staff are now in position to be able to contact a recruit9s) -- last minute -- and have a decent chance landing him/them. I much prefer this than to give out more schollies than roster spots.

[Old guy]

I'd have a pretty big problem with it because there are no obvious candidates for who wouldn't be back. There are shades of gray anytime a kid is told to leave a program but in my mind a freshmen being told to leave isn't as bad as a junior or senior because he has options. Telling a kid that has already transferred (and burned his one sit out year) is even worse. I also don't like the practice of telling a highschool player that signed an LOI there isn't a spot (similar to what happened to Tanner L).

So when you look at our roster I'd have a real problem with us dropping any of the following:

Grandy, Manning, Ash, McBroom any of the 5 already committed from highschool.

The 3 freshmen all have nice press clippings and at a minimum should be given this year to prove whether they belong at this level. Going over the limit this fall would basically be denying them that opportunity and is completely unnecessary.

Kshoe, you have a problem with this (and me too) because you are an honorable person who hates even the thought of treating people like chattel.

[billiken_roy]

Glad to see an apparent change in attitude of some of our fans with the revolving door and creaming a roster.

While it tremendously benefitted the advancement of our billiken roster it just is not right. Good student/citizens that WE recruited and promised an opportunity should get that chance even if our staff made an error in judgement of their basketball ability. There is no reason we can't be fair to our student athletes and win.

[brianstl]

When was the last season we didn't have a player transfer? Most years it has been more than one kid transferring. Someone will transfer. Not saying you just sign any kid, but if you can land the right kids the program should be willing to go one over.

[ACE]

The one time purge of the Sodie 3 was absolutlely the correct thing to do, considering the university was committed to building a winning program by upgrading facilities and hiring a top notch coach. An athletic scholarship is a privilege not an entitlement. Those three kids were marginal D1 players and better suited for a lower level, so it was the correct decision. What brian is suggesting is something different and imo unnecessary. IF a kid transfers fine... we can work on filling it then. We can continue to recruit and let prospcts know that if a scholarship opens up, we would be very interested. But considering I feel we are building a solid roster of D1 caliber players, I don't think there is any reason to go over. We also don't have to worry about anybody bolting for the NBA early like some programs have to prepare for.

[kshoe]

Glad to see an apparent change in attitude of some of our fans with the revolving door and creaming a roster.

While it tremendously benefitted the advancement of our billiken roster it just is not right. Good student/citizens that WE recruited and promised an opportunity should get that chance even if our staff made an error in judgement of their basketball ability. There is no reason we can't be fair to our student athletes and win.

No change in attitude on my side. I've always thought it was a gray area where sometimes it was justified and sometimes it wasn't. My previous post highlights pretty clearly when I believe it is not justified (i.e. seniors to be, kids that have already transferred once and are out of options, high school kids that have signed LOIs). I can't remember a single player that RM released that fits those descriptions.

Edit: I also don't believe RM ever over-subscribed scholarships.

[SShoe]

Glad to see an apparent change in attitude of some of our fans with the revolving door and creaming a roster.

While it tremendously benefitted the advancement of our billiken roster it just is not right. Good student/citizens that WE recruited and promised an opportunity should get that chance even if our staff made an error in judgement of their basketball ability. There is no reason we can't be fair to our student athletes and win.

I don't think anybody is suggesting there are not circumstances where a player can't be asked to transfer from the program, but over-committing our scholarships because "the program can always force out the weakest links" is probably too dark a shade of grey for most.

[Taj79]

Sshoe's word is "overcommitting." This is vastly different than brians statement of "going over the limit." My question is can a team "go over the limit?" I believe you can overcommit but you can only have 13 guys on scholarship/under LOIs at any one time. Am I correct in this assessment? As I understood it, Lancona found himself the odd man out when Wassu 's overcommitments caught up to the reality of 13 schollies. They held the proverbial power and had to cut someone lose. The flip side of this would be when a kid initaites the end of his LOI but there the school has all the power once again. There should be a balance.

As far as I know, you can have only 13 under signature, correct? If those two LSU early entries don't go, they have a two-person problem as I see it. I also believe that if a new coach comes in and he evaluates the returning palyters and says "sorry no" to someone, that's his right. However it is also just the right of the kid to say the same back to the coach. I think that both cases should be allowed to transfer and sit out nothing. This would have applied to Mitchell, Knollmeyer, Relaphord, etc. buit not to Jordan, Smiff, Thompson, Cotto or those types. Dez Wells transfer comes to mind in that he broke no civil laws but was disciplined by the school law. Leaving and going straight to Maryland (or anywhere else) without the sit-out penalty seems fair to me. Just my thoughts.

I don't know how to handle the Richard Pitino or Tubby Smith issues however.

[kshoe]

Sshoe's word is "overcommitting." This is vastly different than brians statement of "going over the limit." My question is can a team "go over the limit?" I believe you can overcommit but you can only have 13 guys on scholarship/under LOIs at any one time. Am I correct in this assessment? As I understood it, Lancona found himself the odd man out when Wassu 's overcommitments caught up to the reality of 13 schollies. They held the proverbial power and had to cut someone lose. The flip side of this would be when a kid initaites the end of his LOI but there the school has all the power once again. There should be a balance.

As far as I know, you can have only 13 under signature, correct? If those two LSU early entries don't go, they have a two-person problem as I see it. I also believe that if a new coach comes in and he evaluates the returning palyters and says "sorry no" to someone, that's his right. However it is also just the right of the kid to say the same back to the coach. I think that both cases should be allowed to transfer and sit out nothing. This would have applied to Mitchell, Knollmeyer, Relaphord, etc. buit not to Jordan, Smiff, Thompson, Cotto or those types. Dez Wells transfer comes to mind in that he broke no civil laws but was disciplined by the school law. Leaving and going straight to Maryland (or anywhere else) without the sit-out penalty seems fair to me. Just my thoughts.

I don't know how to handle the Richard Pitino or Tubby Smith issues however.

Brian's statement of "going over the limit" is effectively the same as Sshoe's term of over-committing. That is because there is no such things as having more than 13 players on campus on athletic scholarship. Since I know Brian knows this and his post was in the context of signing additional players this fall, then the two terms are effectively the same.

[billiken_roy]

Taj, can have as many commits and loi as you want. But there can never be more than 13 scholarships. Kentucky does it all the time assuming leaving early for the NBA. But if the players don't clear the spot, the school does by either withdrawing a loi or by not renewing an existing scholarship.

[billiken_roy]

Double post

[Pistol]

Taj, this question was floated (by me) a few days ago. I think the consensus is that technically, yes, you can have more than 13 players signed at a given time. This happens during the season, when guys sign in the fall period (a week in mid-November) and you have a full 13 on the roster. Ideally, you have the same number of guys sign in the fall or spring period as guys whose eligibility will expire. But once the following season starts, 13 is your cap and how you get to that becomes the question if you're over the limit ahead of time.

Washington State had signed more players than were exiting. I think they were actually 2 above the limit, but I don't feel like searching for the stories again. Instead of seeing one guy already on the roster out the door (e.g. Carter or Drew), they opted to give the bad news to a fall signee (Lancona) in the spring, forcing him to become a quick-turnaround spring recruit. Looking at the so-so talent on the WSU roster, I question this decision but I don't pretend to know everything about the dynamics of that roster and staff.

The issue is: is it smart or self-defeating (or ethical) to obtain more verbal commitments than are projected as available scholarships the following season? Do you overcommit by 1 or 2, counting on a certain guy to transfer out because he's unhappy or go pro or fail out academically? Or do you commit to exactly the number of scholarships are available for the following season, based only on the guys whose eligibility will expire?

My personal feeling is you do the latter. I'd be able to sleep better at night by not misleading any recruit or any guy on my roster. And if a player decides suddenly to leave (like Andrew Latimer or John Seyfert or any number of SLU players have done) there are enough talented kids available in the spring - including transfers - to fill a spot or two on shorter notice.

I think that what coaches who overcommit and/or oversign are doing is the thundering herd mentality- always bumping off the weakest guy, whether a new signee or existing roster player, for the best talent available. They may be upping the talent level on paper but this could also create some poisonous chemistry or lead to a culture where recruits might not be comfortable signing.

I'll add just one caveat: there are instances where a guy on the roster has worn out his welcome for one reason or another, and just because a guy transfers out and it doesn't look like his decision, it's not always because the coach is being unethical. There are guys who were at SLU when I was who I thought our staff was way, way too forgiving with; I would never name names but am always happy to give my own opinions over a beer.

[brianstl]

I don't think anybody is suggesting there are not circumstances where a player can't be asked to transfer from the program, but over-committing our scholarships because "the program can always force out the weakest links" is probably too dark a shade of grey for most.

I am not suggesting we force anyone out. Just think it is time to admit to the reality that at least one person will transfer out/not return to school every year . It happens at just about every program and has happened every year here for years.

[The Pelican]

I am not suggesting we force anyone out. Just think it is time to admit to the reality that at least one person will transfer out/not return to school every year . It happens at just about every program and has happened every year here for years.

I agree that players will come and go and when they do you fill the voids as they arise. I wouldn't oversign with anticipation of someone leaving because if you have a year where all players remain then you look like a piece of $hit; ie- Tanner.

[BIG BILL FAN]

Glad to see an apparent change in attitude of some of our fans with the revolving door and creaming a roster.

While it tremendously benefitted the advancement of our billiken roster it just is not right. Good student/citizens that WE recruited and promised an opportunity should get that chance even if our staff made an error in judgement of their basketball ability. There is no reason we can't be fair to our student athletes and win.

Here is the Lindenwood basketball schedule. Enjoy the games,,,,,they have a very honorable coach and program...unlike the one you currently complain about...

http://www.lindenwoodlions.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

[SShoe]

Sshoe's word is "overcommitting." This is vastly different than brians statement of "going over the limit." My question is can a team "go over the limit?" I believe you can overcommit but you can only have 13 guys on scholarship/under LOIs at any one time. Am I correct in this assessment? As I understood it, Lancona found himself the odd man out when Wassu 's overcommitments caught up to the reality of 13 schollies. They held the proverbial power and had to cut someone lose. The flip side of this would be when a kid initaites the end of his LOI but there the school has all the power once again. There should be a balance.

As far as I know, you can have only 13 under signature, correct? If those two LSU early entries don't go, they have a two-person problem as I see it. I also believe that if a new coach comes in and he evaluates the returning palyters and says "sorry no" to someone, that's his right. However it is also just the right of the kid to say the same back to the coach. I think that both cases should be allowed to transfer and sit out nothing. This would have applied to Mitchell, Knollmeyer, Relaphord, etc. buit not to Jordan, Smiff, Thompson, Cotto or those types. Dez Wells transfer comes to mind in that he broke no civil laws but was disciplined by the school law. Leaving and going straight to Maryland (or anywhere else) without the sit-out penalty seems fair to me. Just my thoughts.

I don't know how to handle the Richard Pitino or Tubby Smith issues however.

That's some serious wordsmithing there, Taj.

[eastsidejoe]

Glad to see an apparent change in attitude of some of our fans with the revolving door and creaming a roster.

While it tremendously benefitted the advancement of our billiken roster it just is not right. Good student/citizens that WE recruited and promised an opportunity should get that chance even if our staff made an error in judgement of their basketball ability. There is no reason we can't be fair to our student athletes and win.

Is this a recorded message? I am tired of reading the same old crap. We know how you feel Roy, give it up already

[Clock_Tower]

I am not suggesting we force anyone out. Just think it is time to admit to the reality that at least one person will transfer out/not return to school every year . It happens at just about every program and has happened every year here for years.

No. I don't subscribe to that. For schools like Kentucky and others who have constant early exits for the NBA, then "overcommitting" or "going over the limit" (Taj, I see no difference either) is probably a reality and needed. For SLU, I don't see it. We do not have 1 kid leave each and every year. And if 1 does leave unexpectedly, then we can replace them that Spring or the next Fall. Also, I agree with Ace on it being the right thing to do: the early exit of Mitchell, Relephord and Knollmeyer -- players of the prior regime. And yes, mistakes are and will be made by the current regime, and when this situation arises, the current regime should not have their hands tied, by a fixed rule, as suggested by Roy (Roy, I am not changing my position either).

In short, there is a very fine line (and I'd suggest not much real difference) between a player who leaves on his own and the coach who shows him the door. I would suggest that coaches rip into kids mentally, sit them on the bench, tell them they have little to no future and make their life hell. Many, but not all kids in that situation, would say, I know that I am not wanted here, I have other choices, I want to play basketball, so please give me my release to go elsewhere. To me, there is very little difference between this scenario and if this same kid, in the same position with his coach/team simply doesn't feel like starting over, otherwise likes the university, his friends and teammates, has a girlfriend on campus, doesn't want to feel he is letting down his parents/former coaches and drop to Div 3, etc., says instead, there is more to life than basketball, I am just going to stick things out, starts tuning out his coaches abit to mentally cope with the mental onslaught, performs his best at practice but does not do anything extra causing the head coach to show him the door.

And Taj, if kids who were pushed out don't have to sit a year out but kids who leave on their own must sit out a year, then I'd suggest not many kids will say they left on their own. And if significance is placed upon whether a kid leaves voluntarily or not, then who will determine if the kid left on his own versus was pushed out, how long with this investigation/determination take place?

And no, absolute free agency each year would only makes things worse. And when you think about it, punishing a kid/victim by making him attend college, with free tuition and room & board, and hang out with friends and co-eds, doesn't appear to be so bad.

[Clock_Tower]

No change in attitude on my side. I've always thought it was a gray area where sometimes it was justified and sometimes it wasn't. My previous post highlights pretty clearly when I believe it is not justified (i.e. seniors to be, kids that have already transferred once and are out of options, high school kids that have signed LOIs). I can't remember a single player that RM released that fits those descriptions.

Edit: I also don't believe RM ever over-subscribed scholarships.

I believe RM did when we signed Cassity and Cotto in the Spring but did not yet show the door to Knollmeyer and Mitchell.

[Taj79]

Okay, I was wrong trying to establish the difference between Sshoe and brian's meanings. They are the same. Got it. In any case, what to do, what to do. I guess that ultimately relies on the shoulders of the coach/staff. I've said before I'm glad my job doesn't rest on the whims of teenagers and I'll add this side bar as another reason to count my blessings for it.

The argument about having more than 13 with incoming freshmen is understood however my 13 count only took into account an active/current roster in the given year of play. I didn't count an LOI as an active scholarship. I'm talking about whatever contract/paper is signed in the registration/bill paying process. I would think of that as the contract law side of the schollie.

Frankly, I'd like to see where we get to the flip side of the supply-n-demand theory -- where so many folks want us that we don't have a big enough supply but that is likely never going to be the case. A couple more years of success will put us closer to that side of the ledger than the other side.

[Pistol]

Updated. 1 spot remains for 2014. As always, updates on all names are appreciated. Italics represent my impression of where the player currently stands with SLU.

2014 Offer List:

Tevin Glass: Northwest Florida State CC, Norcross, GA - PF: 6-8, 195. Offers: SLU, VCU, Arizona State, Auburn, Mississippi State, New Mexico, South Florida, UAB, Southern Miss, MTSU. Interest: Florida, Georgia Tech. Latest (9/9): SLU has offered the JuCo-enrolled Glass, who will be eligible immediately as a junior. He is considered one of the top JuCo prospects in the nation and is predicted to be a preseason second-team All-American when the season starts. As a senior at Milton HS (Atlanta area) in 2012, he had offers from Memphis, Murray State, Nevada, and others. In his freshman season at NW Florida State, he came off the bench to average 6.4 points and 4.9 rebounds on 51.1% shooting. He shot 64.5% from the free throw line. Twitter:@Topnotch_Tglass

-There is minimal recruiting info on Glass since an initial explosion in early September and nothing about him and SLU since then. Since then, most news has been about him getting preseason attention for JUCO players to watch, making all-conference and all-region preseason teams, and the like.

Patrick McCaw: Trinity, Spanish Lake, MO - SG: 6-5, 180. Offers: SLU, DePaul, Oklahoma State, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, SIUC, Missouri State, Bradley, Illinois State, Loyola-Chicago, Loyola-Maryland. Interest: Georgetown, Creighton, Xavier, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State, Missouri, Kansas State, Tennessee, Wichita State. Latest (10/10): McCaw received an offer from Florida State. Previous: McCaw took an official visit to DePaul in September. He transferred from CBC to Trinity to play for his dad. Billikens.com's own TheChosenOne scouted McCaw as a three-point specialist, a report McCaw seems to agree with, based on his Twitter handle (@StephCurryJr_). After the Peach Jam, where he played for Mac Irvin Fire out of Chicago, some scouts on Twitter remarked that he scores in a variety of ways, is strong on the break, and can take guys off the dribble. McCaw was ranked 87th in the June rankings for the class of 2014 (CBC teammate Jordan Barnett was 86). Twitter: @StephCurryJr_

-McCaw appears to be the top 2014 priority for SLU's last spot. He has not announced a timeline or list of finalists, but DePaul and SLU are both clearly in the mix and pushing hard for his services.

Logan McLane: Greenfield School, Wilson, NC - PF: 6-8, 210. Offers: SLU, Seton Hall, Miami-Ohio, Toledo, Buffalo, UNC-Asheville, UNC-Greensboro, Winthrop, Appalachian State, Mercer, High Point, Western Carolina, Georgia Southern, Abilene Christian. Interest: George Mason, Stanford, Iowa, Old Dominion, East Carolina, Florida Gulf Coast, Florida International, East Tennessee State, Mount St. Mary's, Furman. Latest (10/11): McLane will be visiting Miami-Ohio in mid-October and Mercer in November. Previous: McLane received home visits from Appalachian State, FIU, ECU, WCU, UNCG, and Mercer. McLane remains a SLU target and offers are coming in. He played well after returning from his ACL injury and has started hearing from the likes of Stanford, Iowa, and George Mason. He made an official visit to High Point. He was cleared to play after recovering from a torn ACL, finally returning to action in Vegas with Team Loaded from NC. He injured it early in his junior season, November 2012. Scouts say schools "should not sleep on him," though, as he has a high-level skill set for his position. He has visited Miami-Ohio. Twitter:@LMcLane4

-SLU had been recruiting McLane from very early on and showed interest even after he returned from the ACL injury. However, the interest appeared to wane in recent months and McLane is being recruited hardest by Miami-Ohio, Mercer, and a number of regional schools near him.

Ikenna Okwarabizie: East, Sioux City, IA - C: 6-11, 240. Offers: SLU, Illinois State, Southern Miss, Tulsa, SIUC, SIUE. Interest: Creighton, Marquette, Iowa, Rutgers, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, LSU, Auburn, Wichita State, Rice. Latest (9/12): Okwarabizie visited Iowa and said it went very well. Previous: Okwarabizie transferred to Sioux City East HS from St. Louis Christian. He will be living with the family of East teammate Chase Kern. He will miss the first 6 games of the HS season. Okwarabizie emerged this spring and picked up his first offer from Southern Miss. He is drawing "serious attention" from Rutgers and visited Illinois State. He received a SLU offer but things have been quiet on that front since mid-July. He played AAU ball with the St. Louis Eagles. Twitter: @iykerulez1

-SLU offered Ike this summer and then anything tying his name to SLU's seemed to disappear. He transferred to East HS in Sioux City and has visited Iowa and continues to receive calls and interest from many places, but offers have been a slow trickle.

Avery Patterson: Wheeler, Decatur, GA - PG: 6-1, 175. Offers: SLU, Richmond, Xavier, Butler, Boston College, Kansas State, Central Florida, Murray State, Tulane, Western Kentucky, Boston. Interest: Memphis, UAB. Latest (10/15): Patterson visited WKU this past weekend. Previous: Patterson said he will likely be a spring signee. He has not come up with a list of finalists yet, but says Western Kentucky, Tulane, and BU have been after him hardest lately. Patterson was low on offers until mid-July, when a slew of new ones came in from SLU, Richmond, Butler, BC, KSU, UCF, Murray State, and WKU. Most of those schools had already been in contact. He's a left-handed PG with a strong frame and very long range on his jumper. Has also drawn a lot of scouting attention for his leadership and control; a pure PG who gets it done at both ends. Twitter: @Showtime_AP

-Patterson said he will take his recruitment into the spring. He had some nice offers (Xavier, Butler, BC, K-State, etc.) that are no longer fresh and the schools recruiting him hardest lately (WKU, BU, Tulane) represent the next tier down. He appears to be counting on a big senior season and a chance to reopen some higher-level eyes. SLU does not appear to still be recruiting him.

Johnnie Shuler: Theodore Roosevelt, Washington, DC - PG: 5-11, 160. Offers: SLU, LaSalle, Seton Hall, Fairfield, Quinnipiac. Interest: Villanova, Maryland, Nebraska, Miami, UNLV, Wichita State. Latest (7/22): Shuler picked up offers from SLU and Quinnipiac. Seton Hall was the first one, followed by Fairfield and LaSalle. He transferred to TRHS from DeMatha and sat out for half of last season. He plays on a loaded DC Warriors AAU team. He said he'd like to play "out west" for a team that plays an "up and down" style, so UNLV is particularly attractive. He acknowledged Seton Hall also plays that style. Twitter: @jshuler_0

-Recruiting buzz on Shuler has been very quiet recently. SLU and others offered over the summer and from what I can tell, LaSalle and Quinnipiac seem to still be recruiting the hardest.

Quadree Smith: Paul VI, Fairfax, VA - PF/C: 6-7, 280. Offers: SLU, St. Joe's, George Mason, Nebraska, Tennessee, Southern Miss, Tulsa, Kent State, Florida Gulf Coast, Florida International, Drexel, Siena, Fairfield, Rider, Radford, Quinnipiac, UNC-Greensboro, Kennesaw State, Austin Peay, Towson, St. Peter's. Interest: Xavier, Virginia, Albany. Latest (10/21): Smith visited Drexel this past weekend. Previous: Smith has taken official visits to Kent State, UNC-Greensboro, and St. Joe's. He received an in-home visit from Drexel. Scouts who attended the DMV Elite 80 said he appears to have slimmed down and has improved his mobility. He told a writer he has offers or interest from Towson, George Mason, Radford, Nebraska, Southern Miss, FGCU, Fairfield, Tennessee, and Tulsa- he mentioned 9 schools and SLU wasn't one of them. He was not allowed to play pee wee football because of his size so he picked up hoops instead. He transferred into Paul VI at over 300 lbs, but the school has a good strength and conditioning coach working with him. He's billed as a relentless worker. He averaged 9 PPG and 13 RPG his junior season and was a key factor in a double overtime win over Oak Hill (13 and 19, with 2 free throws to seal it). Twitter: @Dont_Hate_Q

-Smith had plenty of high-major interest because of his size and potential, but Tennessee is the only power conference name that still pops up at all. Kent State, UNC-Greensboro, Drexel, Towson, and Howard appear to be recruiting hardest at this point, though whenever asked he rattles off at least 9-10 of his offers. No timetable on a final list or announcement date; SLU is out of this one.

Joe Thomasson: State Fair CC, Sedalia, MO - PG: 6-4, 180. Offers: SLU, St. Bonaventure, Creighton, Oklahoma State, Southern Miss, UTEP, Ball State, Wright State, Eastern Kentucky. Interest: Dayton, Missouri, Purdue, Alabama, Arizona State, Cincinnati. Latest (10/15): Mizzou has been calling Thomasson a lot. It appears to be a two-horse race with Wright State. Thomasson visited Wright State in late September. Previous: Thomasson visited Wright State in late September. He is enrolled at State Fair Community College and will be a 2014 recruit, eligible immediately as a junior. A Dayton native, he originally signed with Wright State and opted for the JuCo route after failing to qualify. He committed to Oklahoma State on 8/14 and decommitted in early September. OSU then landed a commitment from Jared Terrell (major Rhode Island target), and it seems as though Thomasson didn't feel there was room for both of them. He averaged 14.4 points at State Fair his freshman year on 44.6% shooting and 40.9% three-point shooting. He also averaged 4.4 rebounds and 5.0 assists, appearing in 28 games and starting in 27 (State Fair went 20-10 overall). He shot 78% from the stripe.

-Mizzou had been calling Thomasson but I haven't seen anything in the past couple weeks linking them to him. Wright State, the hometown school to which he had originally committed but failed to qualify, seems to be making a renewed push. SLU's name is not being linked to his anymore.

Hunter Ware: North Cobb Christian, Kennesaw, GA - PG: 6-2, 165. Offers: SLU, Murray State, Western Kentucky, Cornell, Brown, Tennessee Tech, Jacksonville, Gardner-Webb, Appalachian State, Stetson, Radford, Wofford, Furman, Middle Tennessee, Georgia Southern, North Florida, Kennesaw State. Interest: Mizzou, Butler, Charleston, Charlotte, UAB, Nevada, Buffalo, LIU-Brooklyn, Charleston Southern. Latest (10/15): Ware has tweeted about SLU twice in the past several days. Previous: Ware picked up a WKU offer and calls them his favorite, with MTSU probably second. He is visiting WKU in late October and scheduling one for LIU-Brooklyn. He's considered one of the fastest-rising players in the state of Georgia's class of 2014. On The Radar Hoops says: "Hunter showcases a great change of speed and high basketball IQ, he constantly gets a piece of the paint and pushes the tempo off the rebound. He fills the middle and goes until he is stopped either scoring or dishing off the ball for the easy basket for his teammates." But this is my favorite profile of him. Twitter: @Hunter_Ware1

-Not much news has leaked on Ware lately, but oddly enough, he retweeted two SLU sources in early-mid October. There is no sign SLU is interested, and WKU and LIU-Brooklyn are the two names that pop up most for him.

Elliott Welmer: Columbus North, Columbus, IN - PF: 6-8, 195. Offers: SLU, Wright State, Northern Kentucky, Eastern Kentucky, Eastern Illinois. Interest: Butler, Purdue, IPFW. Latest (10/15): Welmer just matched up against a SLU 2015 target, Derrik Smits, and gave up 28 points. Previous: Welmer attended SLU's camp with Tucker Blackwell (2016), Nai Carlisle (2015), Matt Holba (2015), Taishaun Johnson (2013), and Filip Serwatka (2015). He visited Northern Kentucky recently with Josh Speidel, a 2015 recruit from the same HS as Welmer, and also a kid on SLU's radar. Welmer seems to be growing still, as he is listed as a SF and an inch or two shorter by many recruiting services. He plays for the Eric Gordon All Stars AAU team. As a junior, he was ranked the 26th prospect in Indiana's class of 2014 (McIntosh: 7, Mercer: 8, Brennan: 10, Mitchell: 90), and the report was: "[Welmer] is relatively unknown, but is getting big minutes and scoring some points this winter for North...He had a good summer and should land his name on the radar of some schools...Has good perimeter skills for a guy of his size, handles the ball well...I think that Elliott will still grow another inch or two and his game is just starting to come into its own...He shoots the ball well from the perimeter and blocks shots defensively...I am sure I have him higher than most people, but I think he will end up moving up even more within the next year...Keep an eye out for him." Welmer's uncle is Steve, who officiated a ton of SLU and other big-time college basketball games over the years. Twitter: @Welmer_33

-SLU offered Welmer and remains interested in his younger HS teammate, Josh Speidel. Welmer has not announced a list or timetable, but as a skinny, growing big, he brings to mind another 2014 name and former 2013 name, Brett Jolly. With the Jolly commitment, Welmer doesn't seem like a 2014 target for SLU anymore, and his other offers aren't nearly at the same level.

Thomas Welsh: Loyola, Los Angeles, CA - C: 7-0, 245. Offers: SLU, UCLA, California, USC, Stanford, Utah, Arizona State, Colorado, Notre Dame, Boston College, Gonzaga, Santa Clara, San Francisco, Pacific, Portland, Rice. Interest: Arizona, Wake Forest, San Diego State, Brown, UC-Santa Barbara. Latest (10/22): Welsh has now taken second visits to UCLA and Colorado, and is returning to Cal this weekend. Previous: Welsh took official visits in September and October to UCLA, Cal, and Colorado. He has made unofficial visits to USC, Cal, Stanford, Utah, UCLA, and Colorado. He wants to take a couple more official visits and decide in November. Lately in his recruitment, Cal, Stanford, Colorado, Utah, USC, and UCLA are making the biggest push. In Vegas, he was in a much-watched post matchup with top-10 player Myles Turner, who was said to have lived up to his elite shot-blocking billing. However, "the multi-skilled Welsh exhibited his unique skill set as he nailed several mid-range jump shots and displayed his all-around post game." UCLA was apparently present for every Welsh game, and Enfield and USC were at most, too. Welsh has an offer from Steve Alford at UCLA. SLU is said to be one of Welsh's early offers, which is interesting, given that he's a Southern California kid with otherwise exclusively West Coast offers. Welsh has spoken with Andy Enfield at USC quite a bit. He just recently visited Cal. He played very well at camps and AAU tournaments and is now a consensus top-100 prospect.

-All signs seem to point to a race between UCLA and Cal, with Colorado third and Stanford making a major push to get in the final mix. Basically the entire Pac 12 is offering and about half have been seriously considered. SLU was out of contention not long after offering. Expect an announcement soon.

2014 Interest List:

Aaron Brennan: Guerin Catholic, Noblesville, IN - PF: 6-6, 200.Offers: Indiana State, Loyola-Chicago, Belmont, Cornell, Columbia, Toledo, IUPUI, UNC-Asheville, UNC-Greensboro, William & Mary. Interest: SLU, Butler, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Iowa, Ball State, Wright State, Northern Kentucky, Eastern Kentucky. Latest (10/16): Brennan received an in-home visit from IUPUI in early October. Previous: Brennan took an official visit to IUPUI in September. He played well at Top 100, picking up an offer from UNC-Asheville immediately after. He contracted foot-in-mouth disease last June and was quarantined for the rest of that month. He had a rough AAU season the rest of last summer after returning, sluggish from lingering effects. Several Big Ten schools have shown interest but, according to Brennan, want to see if he grows more. He just made an unofficial visit to Toledo in late June and has also visited Butler, Loyola-Chicago, and Indiana State. Twitter: @Aaron_Brennan_

-SLU's name has not been linked to Brennan's in a while, from what I can tell. His younger teammate, Matt Holba, is a possible 2015 SLU target. Brennan has a nice list of Ivy and regional schools who have offered; no timetable or finalists yet.

Brandon Cheeks: Meadowbrook, Richmond, VA - SG: 6-1, 190. Offers: None. Interest: SLU, George Mason, Delaware, Quinnipiac, Radford. Latest (8/27): Cheeks said SLU and Quinnipiac were tracking him in June and July on the AAU circuit. Previous: Cheeks played well at Big Shots Richmond, reportedly scoring well at all levels and rebounding his position well. He also handles the ball well and makes plays in traffic. His father played at VCU and holds their single-game scoring record (42 in a 1989 game vs. ODU). He later coached at VCU, West Virginia, Georgia State, and UNC-Charlotte.

-Any information on Cheeks has been hard to come by since his name was first linked to SLU this summer. I expect him to be a spring recruit.

Arlando Cook: Madison Prep, St. Louis, MO - PF: 6-8, 175. Offers: Kent State, SIUE, Tennessee-Martin, Western Illinois. Interest: SLU, Illinois, Virginia Tech, SIUC, Missouri State, Indiana State, Georgia State, Troy, Indianapolis, Nebraska-Omaha, Alabama A&M. Latest (10/16): Cook will take an official visit to Tennessee-Martin this weekend. Previous: Cook visited SLU with Brandon Hollins of Jennings HS. He visited Western Illinois in early September. After a strong showing throughout July, Cook is officially on SLU's radar and has "big interest" from Indiana State. He had what has been called a "breakout weekend" at the Under Armour Summer Jam in Wisconsin, averaging 19 and 13 during the tournament for the St. Louis Gym Rats Elite AAU team. Florida Gulf Coast will be visiting him at home soon. Tennessee-Martin has "very high" interest. Cook took an unofficial visit to SIUC in early August, and SIUE immediately after. Twitter: @___BallxBooks

-SLU has been keeping an eye on Cook and invited him to campus a couple months ago. All four on his offer list still appear to be recruiting him.

Brandon Hollins: Jennings, Jennings, MO - SF: 6-5, 170. Interest: SLU, UC-Riverside, Austin Peay, Eastern Illinois. Latest (8/15): Hollins visited SLU with Arlando Cook. Previous: Hollins is on SLU's radar after a solid July. He led the Suburban East in scoring his junior season, at 18 PPG. He missed his entire sophomore season with a knee injury. He is said to be a "skilled wing who is most effective slashing to the basket and finishing at the rim," who "needs to be more confident handling the ball" to be successful at the next level. Earl Austin said this of Hollins' July play in Vegas for Team Ramey: "Hollins opened a lot of eyes out west with his energetic play on the wing...averaged about 15 points a game. Always known as a potent perimeter shooter, the slender Hollins displayed slashing ability, plus he rebounded well." Twitter: @NBADreams_

-SLU has been keeping an eye on Hollins and invited him to campus a couple months ago. No word since then, though. I could see him being a spring recruit.

Avery Johnson, Jr.: Plano West, Plano, TX - PG: 5-9, 173. Offers: Southern Miss. Interest: SLU, LaSalle, Baylor, Arizona State, LSU, Rutgers, Florida State, Wichita State, SMU, Rice, Charleston, Santa Clara, Bucknell, Columbia, LIU-Brooklyn. Latest (9/12): Johnson retweeted that Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Tulsa were in the house to watch Plano West, but it's likely they were there to see one of his teammates (probably junior Tyler Davis, a 270-pound center with high interest from SMU and Texas). Previous: Earlier in summer 2013, Johnson said Baylor, SLU, and LSU are recruiting hardest but Baylor stands out most at this point. He has visited Baylor and SLU. The son of former NBA player and coach Avery Johnson, he made headlines when he Tweeted taunts at the Nets after losing to the Bulls in the playoffs (his dad coached the Nets before being fired). He is scouted as being very quick, with a very high basketball IQ and competitive nature. Twitter: @itsaveryjohnson

-Johnson still claims "high interest" from LSU and Baylor, and interest from SLU and many others. It's unlikely SLU is in the picture at all at this point. He has no timetable, solid offer list, or finalists, which tells me this should stretch into the spring.

Anthony Pate: New Hampton Prep, New Hampton, NH - SG: 6-3, 190. Offers: St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, Harvard, Yale, FIU, Holy Cross, Lehigh, Hofstra, Boston, Maine, UMBC, UNC-Greensboro, Binghamton, NJIT. Interest: SLU, George Washington, George Mason, Davidson, Marquette, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Tulsa, Bucknell, Siena, Drexel, Northeastern, Utah State, Marist, Elon, New Hampshire. Latest (9/12): Pate was rated #9 in the loaded NH class of 2014 by the New England Recruiting Report. Previous: Pate is picking up a lot of interest and offers after playing well at the Super 64 in Vegas. Scouts said his game is a lot like that of Elijah Brown, the son of Mike Brown who played at Santa Ana HS in California and is heading to Butler this fall. Pate is said to have a confident stroke and good facilitating ability. One concern may be transfers: Pate is from Canada, attended Saint Anthony in New Jersey before transferring to Long Island Lutheran for his junior season, then New Hampton Prep this past season. He will stay at NHP for a prep year. Twitter: @416Pate

-SLU had been in contact with Anthony Pate in late summer into the fall, but it appears to have died out after the three guard commitments.

Darreon Reddick: Belleville East, Belleville, IL - PG: 6-3, 200. Offers: DePaul, Valpo, Missouri State, Indiana State, Bradley, Detroit, Toledo, IUPUI. Interest: SLU, Dayton, Xavier, Butler, Northwestern, Michigan, Mizzou, Tennessee, Iowa, SIUC. Latest (9/18): Reddick was visited by Indiana State late last week. Previous: Reddick was impressed by Northwestern on his unofficial visit there, but the school has not yet made an offer. If he does get one, he plans to make an official visit before deciding. Reddick visited Bradley and Illinois State in June. He also visited Valpo with C.J. Rivers and both picked up offers. Twitter:@_14Reddick

-SLU had been keeping an eye on Reddick but it never appeared to be serious. His recruitment has been quiet lately. Northwestern never came through with the offer many anticipated.

Shawn Roundtree: Edwardsville, Edwardsville, IL - PG: 6-0, 175. Offers: SIUE. Interest: SLU, Ball State, Missouri State, Indiana State. Latest (9/12): Roundtree received visits from SIUE, Missouri State, and Indiana State (twice) as the fall recruiting period opened. Previous: Roundtree played in the Purdue Elite Camp in August. He has been contacted by SLU and Ball State, but SIUE was the early leader in his recruitment. Twitter: @2Yung4_Simba

-SIUE remains Roundtree's sole offer for now, but with 1 scholarship remaining and a PG already in the fold for 2014, it's unclear how strongly the Cougars are still recruiting him. He might be a spring signee. SLU never appeared seriously interested.

Tarin Smith: St. Anthony's, Jersey City, NJ - PG: 6-0, 175. Offers: LaSalle, St. Joe's, UMass, Penn, Princeton, Brown, Lehigh, Bucknell, Detroit, Holy Cross, Delaware, Quinnipiac, Wagner, Stony Brook, Buffalo. Interest: SLU, Providence, Creighton, Boston College, SMU. Latest (10/16): Smith visited SLU in late September. Providence sources are saying there is growing interest in Smith from the Friars. Previous: Smith visited SLU in September but never received an offer. He also took an official visit to Lehigh. Smith is the starting point guard at NJ powerhouse St. Anthony's, whose past point guards include Bobby Hurley, Tyshawn Taylor, Tray Woodall, and recent Temple addition Josh Brown. He says St. Joe's, Bucknell, Stony Brook, Princeton, and Penn have been in contact the most and that SLU, SMU, Creighton, and Boston College have all contacted him to let him know they're coming out to watch him this July. St. Joe's has had a few recent St. Anthony's grads, including Ahmad Nivins and Dwayne Lee. (There is also a 2016 recruit from McCluer North by the same name.) Twitter: @Smittee_

-SLU was still showing interest into October, but the other guard commitments have quieted down things between the two very recently. Providence is showing some interest now.

Dmitri Thompson: Orlando Christian, Orlando, FL - SG: 6-4, 195. Offers: Purdue, Miami, Oklahoma State, Mississippi, Georgia, South Florida, Central Florida, Charleston, Florida International, Murray State, UNC-Greensboro, Georgia Southern. Interest: SLU, Georgetown, Butler, Kansas State, Virginia, Alabama, Appalachian State, Mercer. Latest (10/16): Thompson appears to have some renewed interest from South Florida. Previous: Thompson says Appalachian State and Mercer are interested. He has an offer from FIU and what appears to be some renewed interest from Butler. His offers from bigger programs are all listed as being from 2012, so I'm wondering how current they are. Thompson and teammate Adonys Henriquez had publicly mentioned the possibility of being recruited as a package deal, but Henriquez committed to Miami this past fall, while Thompson continues to explore his options. The two have won a state championship together already and expectations are high for their senior season. Twitter: @BigMeech_2014

-SLU never appeared seriously interested in Thompson, whose most recent offer is from UNC-Greensboro. South Florida has called lately.

[Taj79]

Twelve guys on this list of 21 players are guards with three guards already in the fold. Is that a concern? Do we care?

[ACE]

Twelve guys on this list of 21 players are guards with three guards already in the fold. Is that a concern? Do we care?

Pistol has done a fine job compiling this info, but I don't think we should regard this as THE list. I'm sure a lot has changed considering five of our six available scholarships are now accounted for. Some of these kids like Welsh are no longer interested in us and some of these kids we no longer have interest in - Welmer comes to mind. Also, since we have three guards I really doubt we are still purrsuing a kid like Avery Patterson. I would also bet most of the players on the "Interest" list will never get an offer from SLU. So no, the fact that 12 of 21 players on a partial, somewhat out dated list are considered guards is of no concern to me.