Recruiting - 2013

[Taj79]

@kshoe --- I will be waiting on that future. Hoping it, and a better one for the other sophomore big man, rings truer than it has to this point.

Majerus not liking JUCOs is one thing and I accept that. Rick had a system that was/is obviously labor intensive. Why start with a guy two years short already? But I was always led to believe that Saint Louis Univeristy is anti-JUCO due to the degree programs at SLU vus-a-vis the ones most JUCOs seem to enroll in whiel at junior college. Therefore, your available talent pool is already shaved down.

Yes, we've have Kenny Brown, Mo Jeffers, Justin Love, Charles Newberry and a few others. I guess we can count Va'shun Newborne, Tom Frericks, Barry Eberhardt, Ty Caswell, Donnie Campbell, Carl Turner, Donnie Dobbs and some more. Not saying the JUCO door is closed; past practices would have me project a glass half-empty on that account.

[ACE]

That's the 64k question. His timidness with the rock is alarming for a Division One baseketball player.

That is a fair question. His performance against GW was very bad, but in fairness, I didn't agree with Crews putting him in there. I don't think he has played any meaningful minutes in a while. I thought early in the season when Cory and Grandy were hurt, Manning looked serviceable when he was getting regular minutes, in the 8-12 range. The Valop game in particular sticks out. It's difficult when you sit for several games and then are thrown in for a couple minute shift.

The bigger question for me is how to replace Cody. Having a big along with Rob who can stretch the floor has been a huge plus. We don't have a sharpshooting, charge taking big waiting in the wings. We will likely wind up with a different type of big.

[slu72]

I was told we are close to a couple of very good spring signings. I was not given names. I'm not telling you what to believe, just relaying what was said. I remain in the skeptical category but only until proven wrong -- which I hope to be.

@NH --- What do you mean by tarnsfers? Transfers ala Reggie Bryant and McBroom and Barnett -- guys from one D1 program that have to sit out a year? There would be no real playing time there for a year. Unless that's what you mean. Or do you mean JUCO transfers? Because we all know how JUCO transfers work so well for us ... a PE major at Middle Of Nowhere Kansas Junior College can't get enough of his credits in our school so he goes elsewhere. Or he's a really dedicated PE major and we don't have that so he goes elsewhere.

And Manning will get playing time. Really? Based on what do you make that statement? I sure hope so and I had high hopes for him based on what I perceived to be increasing playing time in the OOC schedule but he's been MIA ever since. The kid looks like he is walking on egg shells when he is out there. And while he is "energy,' the rest of Grandy's game needs tons of refinement. I am also reluctant to believe McBroom and Drew provide much so if they do, I will be pleasantly surprised.

I believe the gentleman's accord struck by Crews and May for the season will hold throughout as f05 has said. That does not concern me right now. . I could also see Bronson as the main recruiter and being th eone to stay, with Whitesell being up in the air more than Crews. So that continuity will stay. Right now, I have to believe we will be fine. What choice do we/I have?

Remember, Drew as an RM recruit. He hasn't messed up too often. Would agree JM has to go to big men's school next summer. GG appears to be a hard worker, watch for improvement over the summer. He could be a taller Dobbs type. I certainly hope Crawford is as good as is being hyped by a few posters: We've got a decent starting 5 next year, but our bench is looking thin. Hopefully, over the summer the success breeds the attitude that we just need to work harder. DE finds a mid range or 3 shot, JJ finds a 3 shot, MM puts on a little muscle, GG refines things, JM crosses over the learning curve for bigs, RL buys a can of Conklin's testosterone spray. JB becomes a sniper.

[NH]

The bigger question for me is how to replace Cody. Having a big along with Rob who can stretch the floor has been a huge plus. We don't have a sharpshooting, charge taking big waiting in the wings. We will likely wind up with a different type of big.

Though it isn't easy, I think nearly any big CAN be a charge taking big.

On a separate note, I agree with KShoe that RM oversold the idea of Juco's not qualifying for the school. JUCOs play at Division 1 schools all over the country. While SLU is a good university, with relatively tough classes and legitimate graduation requirements, there is nothing innate about Saint Louis U that makes it tougher for kids to qualify.

Where I go to school, Vanderbilt, we have JUCO players every once in a while. You'd think SLU and Vandy would be at least on a similar plane in terms of how hard it is to qualify. I don't hear our A-10 brethren with solid academic reputations such as Fordham and GW complaining about how impossible it is to get JUCOs, though admittedly I haven't done much research.

[billiken_roy]

has the juco rule of transfers being on pace to graduate in an existing degree program of the receiving school changed? if not, we are never going to be a player in the juco market again. might find the occasional juco that has the focus to be enrolled in the right transferable credit program, but that is going to be rare.

[NH]

Remember, Drew as an RM recruit. He hasn't messed up too often.

Jeff Reid, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson...

Majerus did a great job, but like any coach he is not infallible.

[Basketbill]

I do not see any of those as mistakes. Reid had a severe concussion and decided health was more important than D-1 ball. He got it playing against ND. Took and elbow from Hanratty I recall. As a freshman he was playing.....

Cotto a talent who was a head case....hard to judge that....

Thompson....had he had the work etthic of Conklin.....can't teach height worth the risk...

[cheeseman]

Manning taking CR's place - gosh I hope not - CR has regressed and frankly has not done much - I would hope Manning can do at least that but he needs to be even better. Can Manning do this - who knows - he certainly has no track record to date to show this but I guess he could make big improvements this summer.

GG - while he can loose his man on defense once in a while he has gotten better and do think the chance to start has raised his confidence. He has shown that he can not only rebound but also score if given a chance. I see him playing at least double the minutes if not triple next year.

CE's replacement - he will be replaced by three other players - hopefully McBroom can pick up the 3 pt shooting as well as help out with the lost KM minutes - GG will play some of the inside time - and JB will pick up a some also depending on how we go defensively. Unless CE picks it up his loss will not be so big.

Drew - don't forget about him he can pick up some of CE's minutes also.

Juccos - the problem with juccos is that you have to have 12 hours in your major completed and there are not many juccos who have 12 hours in math, science, english, history, or whatever. They tend to have a lot of PE classes or parks and rec credits. It is not impossible but tough - we would be better off getting one to come after one year it would be easier to meet the NCAA requirements.

I hope all this recruiting optimism pans out.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Jeff Reid, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson...

Majerus did a great job, but like any coach he is not infallible.

I don't see how that was Majerus' problem... Jeff Reid was injury prone, Ruben Cotto was Ruben Cotto and Brett Thompson might have been the softest 6'10 player in the history of Division One basketball. Not all "projects" pan out. See the Boeing 787 for more.

[OkieBilliken]

I do not see any of those as mistakes. Reid had a severe concussion and decided health was more important than D-1 ball. He got it playing against ND. Took and elbow from Hanratty I recall. As a freshman he was playing.....

Cotto a talent who was a head case....hard to judge that....

Thompson....had he had the work etthic of Conklin.....can't teach height worth the risk...

I thought Jeff Reid ended up at SW Missouri State because he flunked out of SLU????

[billikenfan05]

I thought Jeff Reid ended up at SW Missouri State because he flunked out of SLU????

Wow.....Jeff Reid had a massive concussion and never recovered enough to play division 1 basketball. Ended up transferring to a lower division school close to his home in Kansas. He even showed up to the KU/SLU game this season. None of Majerus' players have "flunked out".

[cheeseman]

Jeff Reid, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson...

Majerus did a great job, but like any coach he is not infallible.

Reid was not a bust - who could predict he would have a career altering head injury. Cotto could play he just was not smart enough to stay in school. Thompson - he was just lazy. Had RM been here 2 years he would have passed on Cotto and Thompson but with only one year to evaluate and still scrambling on the recruiting trail plus needing bodies he had to reach a bit.

[Bobby Metzinger]

That is a fair question. His performance against GW was very bad, but in fairness, I didn't agree with Crews putting him in there. I don't think he has played any meaningful minutes in a while. I thought early in the season when Cory and Grandy were hurt, Manning looked serviceable when he was getting regular minutes, in the 8-12 range. The Valop game in particular sticks out. It's difficult when you sit for several games and then are thrown in for a couple minute shift.

The bigger question for me is how to replace Cody. Having a big along with Rob who can stretch the floor has been a huge plus. We don't have a sharpshooting, charge taking big waiting in the wings. We will likely wind up with a different type of big.

So if you don't agree with Crews putting a basketball player in a basketball game, then should the basketball player in question really be playing basketball at all?

Not to get all Red Auerbach on you (and he's a GW alum), but do you think he played in that game because he had family in the crowd? Close to his hometown of Chantilly, VA?

[AlumniFan]

I thought Jeff Reid ended up at SW Missouri State because he flunked out of SLU????

If this is the kid I remember, it was the serious concussion that ended his SLU career. He looked like he might be pretty good. About a 6'4" guard. Blonde hair, from Kansas, right?

[Box and Won]

From

Where I go to school, Vanderbilt, we have JUCO players every once in a while. You'd think SLU and Vandy would be at least on a similar plane in terms of how hard it is to qualify. I don't hear our A-10 brethren with solid academic reputations such as Fordham and GW complaining about how impossible it is to get JUCOs, though admittedly I haven't done much research.

And I believe Buzz Williams at Marquette has been very successful at recruiting JUCOs. If he can do it there, it should be doable at SLU as well.

[OkieBilliken]

I thought Jeff Reid ended up at SW Missouri State because he flunked out of SLU????

Sorry that was Jeff Ford, Im getting old!

[ACE]

So if you don't agree with Crews putting a basketball player in a basketball game, then should the basketball player in question really be playing basketball at all?

Not to get all Red Auerbach on you (and he's a GW alum), but do you think he played in that game because he had family in the crowd? Close to his hometown of Chantilly, VA?

Correct, I don't think he should have given him minutes in a meaningful situation in the 1st half after not having played him the previous 4-5 games. The thought crossed my mind about playing him because it was close to home. That is the only thing that makes sense, considering he was buried on the bench in the games leading up to GW.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Correct, I don't think he should have given him minutes in a meaningful situation in the 1st half after not having played him the previous 4-5 games. The thought crossed my mind about playing him because it was close to home. That is the only thing that makes sense, considering he was buried on the bench in the games leading up to GW.

Agree with you there, ACE. I get the sentimental value of playing a kid when it's regionally close to the nest (i.e. UNC coming here for Psycho-T back in 2006), but yeah, I was shaking my head. Also, do you notice that Manning never wears his warm-ups anymore? Like he's got his jacket off ready to go in. I think that's great, but it's strange.

[ACE]

I was told we are close to a couple of very good spring signings. I was not given names. I'm not telling you what to believe, just relaying what was said. I remain in the skeptical category but only until proven wrong -- which I hope to be.

@NH --- What do you mean by tarnsfers? Transfers ala Reggie Bryant and McBroom and Barnett -- guys from one D1 program that have to sit out a year? There would be no real playing time there for a year. Unless that's what you mean. Or do you mean JUCO transfers? Because we all know how JUCO transfers work so well for us ... a PE major at Middle Of Nowhere Kansas Junior College can't get enough of his credits in our school so he goes elsewhere. Or he's a really dedicated PE major and we don't have that so he goes elsewhere.

And Manning will get playing time. Really? Based on what do you make that statement? I sure hope so and I had high hopes for him based on what I perceived to be increasing playing time in the OOC schedule but he's been MIA ever since. The kid looks like he is walking on egg shells when he is out there. And while he is "energy,' the rest of Grandy's game needs tons of refinement. I am also reluctant to believe McBroom and Drew provide much so if they do, I will be pleasantly surprised.

I believe the gentleman's accord struck by Crews and May for the season will hold throughout as f05 has said. That does not concern me right now. . I could also see Bronson as the main recruiter and being th eone to stay, with Whitesell being up in the air more than Crews. So that continuity will stay. Right now, I have to believe we will be fine. What choice do we/I have?

Taj,

I enjoy your posts. You put a lot of thought into them, but you tend to worry too much. I probably won't put your mind at ease with this, but I think there is a glimmer of hope with Manning. Look at his game log. He started the season not getting many minutes. Then the injuries began to mount up with Glaze and Carter, so Manning had a steady role in the rotation during a five game stretch from Valpo through Loyola. He averaged 12 minutes, 6 ppg, 2 rpg, 1 bpg, and shot an impressive 12-16 from the field. Granted, the competition was not the best, but when given regular minutes in the rotation, I thought he did just fine. What happened after that give game stretch? He was sick for the SIU-Edwardsville game and sat out the next one. Then, as Mitchell and Glaze got back in the rotation, there were no more minutes for him.

I think if Manning has a defined role next year with consistent minutes (anywhere from 10-16 minutes depending on who else we sign), he will be a useful role player.

[NH]

I don't see how that was Majerus' problem... Jeff Reid was injury prone, Ruben Cotto was Ruben Cotto and Brett Thompson might have been the softest 6'10 player in the history of Division One basketball. Not all "projects" pan out. See the Boeing 787 for more.

Agreed. I'm saying you can't predict how every player will work out.

[DoctorB]

I was told we are close to a couple of very good spring signings. I was not given names. I'm not telling you what to believe, just relaying what was said. I remain in the skeptical category but only until proven wrong -- which I hope to be.

that lines up with the buzz I've heard on the street -- if not very close, and if not 3.

ps: young John Manning has some game and is a hard worker, and he will get better and better. he has a particular skill set that does not include 3-pt. shot, but he is a space eater who also has nice touch from 17 feet. he will get better, and he will get mucho minutes the next 2 years ....

[billiken_roy]

Wow.....Jeff Reid had a massive concussion and never recovered enough to play division 1 basketball. Ended up transferring to a lower division school close to his home in Kansas. He even showed up to the KU/SLU game this season. None of Majerus' players have "flunked out".

i would call willie "flunked out". also 05, obviously there were other academic issues or we wouldnt be on the fault line of the APR as we speak.

Last i am confused, reid had this concussion. too bad to play at slu, but ok to play elsewhere? that doctor that ok'd that scenario has a lawsuit waiting for him i would think. either he could or couldnt play basketball again. or does the lower level play with some sort of pillow encased head gear or something?

nh is right. while i give huge kudos for the turnout of mccall, mitchell, evans, jett, conklin, cassity, ellis, and loe, out of 26 rickma freshmen, 12 never saw their senior season at saint louis university (and 9 out of the other 14 are underclassmen that the book is still out on). granted 4 of them were "not his recruits" but even then, and subtracting them out of the equation, 31% not making it seems high.

[ACE]

This is how Jeff Reid's career ended...

Jeff Reid has played basketball at a high level for many years and says he has had enough of the game.

Reid said Thursday he won’t return to Washburn for his junior season in 2012-13.

“I’ve decided to call it quits,” Reid said. “The main thing is I’m ready to be done. I’m worn out with it and tired of playing. I’ve lost my love of the game. It’s not fun to do it anymore.”

Mitch Allen also won’t return to play for the Ichabods next season, bypassing his senior year, coach Bob Chipman said.

“Jeff is just burned out,” Chipman said. “He wants to stay in school and take a break from basketball. Mitch felt the same way.

“Both guys love Washburn and plan on staying to get their education. They are great kids and were a huge part of our success the past couple of years.”

Allen, a 5-foot-9 guard from Sabetha, couldn’t be reached for comment.

Reid was All-State and Mr. Kansas Basketball his senior year at Hayden. He signed with Division I Saint Louis but suffered a concussion his freshman year and played only six games, then transferred to Washburn.

Receiving a medical redshirt, the 6-5 guard averaged 9.9 points and 3.7 rebounds as a freshman at Washburn and 6.6 points and 3.1 rebounds this past season as a sophomore when he was hampered all year by a toe injury.

Reid has two years of eligibility remaining and said he might reconsider after sitting out a year.

“I don’t know,” he said. “Next year I won’t play. After that, I might miss it and give it a shot, but I’ll have to wait and see. I just want to focus on school.”

[JMM28]

Marquette enrolls their jucos into a "communication studies" program. The cirriculum reminds me of your local GED class. I would imagine most juco's offer (and load basketball players up on) basic communication type classes.

I am not sure what majors SLU has that are throw aways such as that.

Most state schools can slide juco guys under a PE major.

[moytoy12]

ps: young John Manning has some game and is a hard worker, and he will get better and better. he has a particular skill set that does not include 3-pt. shot, but he is a space eater who also has nice touch from 17 feet. he will get better, and he will get mucho minutes the next 2 years ....

Agree with this.