Jump to content
Billikens.com Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
HenryB

Sounds like Crews has the job

Recommended Posts

What?? Crews has not been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level as a Head Coach?? That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard on this topic. In response, I have not been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level either and I can assure you that I would be a terrible choice for SLU's next head coach!! Reality: top head coaching positions are earned -- not given to nice guys, loyal guys and guys who step in and do a great job on a temporary basis. And yes, the elite coaches of college basketball earned their stripes.

For example, Bill Self did a really great job recruiting, developing and coaching at Oral Roberts and then at Tulsa before getting the chance to coach at Illinois. Self excelled at these schools even though he "was not afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level"!! Once at this level -- at Illinois -- Self not only inherited a strong team (recruited by Lon Kreuger) but then left a really good team which Bruce Weber inherited and took to the Final Four. Thereafter, of course, Self went to Kansas where he has kept KU at the top of college basketball while winning a National Championship.

RM won, and won big, at unknown places like Ball State, Utah and then SLU. No one said his days at lesser schools/conferences don't count b/c he "was not afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level"!! Instead, he won every where he went.

Pitino did the same thing at Boston U -- getting them to the NCAA for the first time in years-- and then also at Providence, taking them from 11-20 to the Final Four after only 2 years. Again, no one afforded him any such opportunity.

The list goes on and on and on...

Instead, good coaches win at every level they are at regardless of the conference, the facilities, the institutional support, etc. Don't get me wrong, conference, facilities, institutional support, etc. are important but they only go so far. Whether SLU is in the remaining A10 or the new Big East, we need a strong coach and, unlike you, I am not willing to ignore Jim Crew's prior 35 years of coaching experience.

@Clock_Tower - Speaking of ridiculous statements -

"In response, I have not been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level either and I can assure you that I would be a terrible choice for SLU's next head coach!!"

- Of course you haven't been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level....you've never coached D1 basketball!

"top head coaching positions are earned -- not given to nice guys, loyal guys and guys who step in and do a great job on a temporary basis."

- Did I ever say it should be given to nice/loyal guys? NO. You are correct, head coaching positions are earned. I happen to think that Crews is doing some work this year that might be enough to earn him a coaching position here. Is that the only thing you factor in? Hell no. You factor in that RM was EXTREMELY high on this guy, and he brought him in to be one of his right hand men. You factor in the extensive coaching career that Crews has (experience has to be factored in...something Soderberg did not have). You factor in that this is a disciple of Bobby Knight basketball. You factor in how respected he is by his coaching peers (Did you hear some of the praise coming from Brad Stevens?). Of course, this is just part of the puzzle.

Fact is, Crews can't be the only answer on the table right now (which I said earlier). I just think he's worthy of consideration, and I think what he has done this year is keeping him in the picture. Recruiting is obviously important. It's really talent identification. Finding guys like Jordair Jett and Jake Barnett, and Cody Ellis. Look, if there is another Shocka or Stevens out there waiting for his chance at a program like SLU, let's snag him up. But, Crews is no slouch. And, if you hire him, I think you have an opportunity to offer him more tools to be successful than even Majerus had...especially if we work into this new conference.

Championships

MCC Champions (1987, 1989, 1992, 1993)

MCC Tournament Champions (1992, 1993)

MVC Champions (1999) Awards

MCC Coach of the Year (1987, 1989, 1992)

MVC Coach of the Year (1999)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Clock_Tower - Speaking of ridiculous statements -

"In response, I have not been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level either and I can assure you that I would be a terrible choice for SLU's next head coach!!"

- Of course you haven't been afforded the opportunity to recruit at this level....you've never coached D1 basketball!

"top head coaching positions are earned -- not given to nice guys, loyal guys and guys who step in and do a great job on a temporary basis."

- Did I ever say it should be given to nice/loyal guys? NO. You are correct, head coaching positions are earned. I happen to think that Crews is doing some work this year that might be enough to earn him a coaching position here. Is that the only thing you factor in? Hell no. You factor in that RM was EXTREMELY high on this guy, and he brought him in to be one of his right hand men. You factor in the extensive coaching career that Crews has (experience has to be factored in...something Soderberg did not have). You factor in that this is a disciple of Bobby Knight basketball. You factor in how respected he is by his coaching peers (Did you hear some of the praise coming from Brad Stevens?). Of course, this is just part of the puzzle.

Fact is, Crews can't be the only answer on the table right now (which I said earlier). I just think he's worthy of consideration, and I think what he has done this year is keeping him in the picture. Recruiting is obviously important. It's really talent identification. Finding guys like Jordair Jett and Jake Barnett, and Cody Ellis. Look, if there is another Shocka or Stevens out there waiting for his chance at a program like SLU, let's snag him up. But, Crews is no slouch. And, if you hire him, I think you have an opportunity to offer him more tools to be successful than even Majerus had...especially if we work into this new conference.

Championships

MCC Champions (1987, 1989, 1992, 1993)

MCC Tournament Champions (1992, 1993)

MVC Champions (1999) Awards

MCC Coach of the Year (1987, 1989, 1992)

MVC Coach of the Year (1999)

I dont disagree with anything you say, however look at the dates on these championships and awards. Most are late 80's, early 90's. Our potential recruits werent born yet when he was in his prime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not even saying I'm against Crews getting the job. I'm just saying we shouldn't be pressured in any way to give it to him based upon this season. We need to conduct a search and if in the end, we feel Crews is the guy, give him the job and make sure we give him the support, ie... a top asst who is a recruiter type to do all the leg work if we even feel there is a chance it may not be his strongest suit.

WHEN we get in this new conference we need to be prepared to do what it takes to become Marquette, not Depaul

Skip, I agree with this but I don't want to do a formal, public search if there is a high probability that Crews is your man. Its demeaning to him and probably doesn't help recruiting if the public view isn't that the university is 100% behind him. If May wants to do a behind the scenes analysis of what is available, which he's probably doing as we speak, then good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skip, I agree with this but I don't want to do a formal, public search if there is a high probability that Crews is your man. Its demeaning to him and probably doesn't help recruiting if the public view isn't that the university is 100% behind him. If May wants to do a behind the scenes analysis of what is available, which he's probably doing as we speak, then good.

Just wondering, prior to contacting an active HC, isn't standard in a HC contract that the contacting school has to get permission from that school first?

Wouldn't that make informal behind the scene searches a little difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DeSmet. I agree with the approach that you, Skip and others suggest: that we continue the national search and that we test the market. If Jim Crews turns out to the best coach available, I am fine with that. But to hand him the keys based upon how he has run RM's veteran team would be a major mistake.

A Bomb. The fact that Jim Crews is able do well with a veteran team tells me that Crews has earned the respect of the guys in the locker and that he has the skills to coach and motivate current players. It certainly is a positive which cannot be ignored. To his credit, I would certainly say that Jim Crews now appears to be in control of this team. I was the at the Santa Clara game and Coach Crews was completely lost -- deer in the headlights confused. The guys did not play hard, well or smart. Timeouts were not called. No change of strategy was made. When stoppages did occur, not much positive appeared to come out of the stoppage of action. These past two (2) months, the play of the team and the actions of Jim Crews on this sidelines has greatly changed my opinion on this aspect of coaching. At the same time, his prior 35 years of coaching should also not be ignored. Remember, though, that success this year says absolutely nothing about his ability to recruit, to develop players, to hire/manage coaches and to otherwise run the basketball program. Sorry, but I am underwhelmed by Crews' hire of his friend Jim Platt. And sorry, but KC was a real talent and while he may have been a knucklehead and may have been fed bad advice, our head coach needs to be able to handle, impress, motivate and console AAU prima donnas -- that's part of the job. If Crews is retained, we will be good/fine next year but the year after (our first in the new Big East, could be a real disaster if we cannot land guys this Spring!!).

Let me ask it this way. Does anyone think paying Jim Crews $1.5 million to $2 million per year is too much? If so, I'd suggest this is proof that Jim Crews is not the right hire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-can you refresh my memory on a couple BCS coaches that were not fired that moved to mid-major jobs?

-at this moment SLU is not mid-major, might be soon, however

Dana Altman AND Greg McDermott each found their way to Creighton that way. It doesn't happen often, but it has. IF we get in this league, we will essentially be in a BCS league. This will not be a "mid-major" gig like a Valley job, There might be some good coaches stuck in bad situations in BCS leagues that could use a change of scenery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the fence about Crews, but for those who say his Army stats shouldnt count because no one can win there:

Three seasons before Crews @ Army (1999-00 through 2001-02) 26-58 .310 winning percentage

Seven seasons with Crews as HC (2002-03 through 2008-09) 59-140 .296 winning percentage

Four season since Crews left @ Army (2009-10 through 2012-13) 52-66 .406 winning percentage

He may not have been the problem there but he sure wasnt the solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skip, I agree with this but I don't want to do a formal, public search if there is a high probability that Crews is your man. Its demeaning to him and probably doesn't help recruiting if the public view isn't that the university is 100% behind him. If May wants to do a behind the scenes analysis of what is available, which he's probably doing as we speak, then good.

I wouldn't disagree with this. I like everyone else am very happy with what Jim Crews has done so far. However, We can't forget we all and many in the country thought SLU was ready to be a sweet 16 type team anyway. This may sound bad, but I'm still holding out to say he has excelled this year. At this point, I'd say he has met or possibly slightly exceeded my expectations.

My thoughts that what he has done this year in no way predicts what he can or will do in the future stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me ask it this way. Does anyone think paying Jim Crews $1.5 million to $2 million per year is too much? If so, I'd suggest this is proof that Jim Crews is not the right hire.

To just Jim Crews, yes. To use this budget to hire Crews to COACH, and hire an awesome staff (paid well) to recruit and grow the program, no. Hiring a guy like Crews could have it's positives in generating a more top-notch staff across the board. Everyone seems to want to put all the work on one guy. Sure, the HC is the man and makes the big time decisions, but having a competent, young, experienced, and cohesive staff is more important to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" Why do so many of you want to settle? Why is the only alternative to Crews that of a unknown, risky assistant coach??"

Good point. An established coach would take some of the guesswork out of hiring Crews, a HC from lower profile program or an assistant, but the cost would be higher. I'm skeptical that SLU would stomach $2M a year even if the BE TV windfall happens. They made a big deal about ponying up cash to pay Majerus and spend more on the program overall, and RM was given $1M.

Supposedly SMU offered him $2M a year after last season. If RM had been healthy and wanted to keep coaching, would SLU have matched that to keep him? If it had to come from within and not from Dr. Chaifetz, I doubt it, and this is Majerus we're talking about.

Do we know of any established coaches who would be worth taking a swing at realistically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Insider information from a wealthy contributor on the SLU athletic board said that they will make the Jim Crews announcement sometime this week. Interesting if you ask me, personally I'd wait until Selection Sunday AT LEAST, but I'm anxious to see if that comes true or not.

And to the Mike Brown mention a couple pages back...


That'd be great. I think somebody with NBA ties like that could really lure some big name recruits with NBA plans.

Plus, with the new conference possibilities, I think that gives big reason for Crews, or anyone, to step up and fill the position.

No matter what happens, we need to get it figured out soon. No recruit is going to want to come into a program without plans for a year in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
" Why do so many of you want to settle? Why is the only alternative to Crews that of a unknown, risky assistant coach??"

Good point. An established coach would take some of the guesswork out of hiring Crews, a HC from lower profile program or an assistant, but the cost would be higher. I'm skeptical that SLU would stomach $2M a year even if the BE TV windfall happens. They made a big deal about ponying up cash to pay Majerus and spend more on the program overall, and RM was given $1M.

Supposedly SMU offered him $2M a year after last season. If RM had been healthy and wanted to keep coaching, would SLU have matched that to keep him? If it had to come from within and not from Dr. Chaifetz, I doubt it, and this is Majerus we're talking about.

Do we know of any established coaches who would be worth taking a swing at realistically?

Chris May probably has a list of people who've called about the job. But it's not likely he'd go public with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McCarthy. With each post, you actually make my point.

First, as pointed out, this is 2013 -- not the 1980s or 1990s!!

Second, here is Jim Crews' body of work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crews

As you can see, he made it to to the NCAA Tourney only 4 times in his entire career and only made it past the first round (to the second round) one time!! Since 1993 (20 years ago!!), Crews has been to the NCAA Tourney only once -- 1989 -- which was another first round loss despite having the first place team from the MVC. The rest of his time with the MVC, Jim Crews (from 1994 to 2002), Crews finished 5th, tied for 5th, tied for 4th, 6th, 6th, 6th and then tied for 9th before being fired in 2002. Overall at Evansville, Crews was 294 wins and 209 losses -- that's a .584 winning percentage!! Thereafter, he coached Army for 7 years (no one held a gun to his head and made him coach there) and posted a record of 59 wins and 140losses with the assistance of Jim Platt.

Third, I can name around a few hundred guys who can claim the same title of being a "Bobby Knight disciple". Not impressed with that argument but I'll take Bobby Knight himself for the next 5 years!!

Fourth, Brad Soderberg was a failure here so if your argument is that Jim Crews is better than Soderberg, my response is: I sure hope so!!

Fifth, the RM coaching tree is not as impressive as you might think it is.

Sixth, be careful of comments made oppposing coaches. For instance, I would expect every A10 coach who visits Philly to say wonderful things about Phil Martelli, the dean of A10 coaches, the 2004 National Coach of the Year.... As a Bills fan, I hope St. Joe's signs him up for another 5 years --- to ensure 5 more years of winning by our Bills!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dana Altman AND Greg McDermott each found their way to Creighton that way. It doesn't happen often, but it has. IF we get in this league, we will essentially be in a BCS league. This will not be a "mid-major" gig like a Valley job, There might be some good coaches stuck in bad situations in BCS leagues that could use a change of scenery.

-from DeSmet's post...Seemingly every year a BCS conference coach makes an unexpected move, either to another BCS school or to an above average mid-major program, and the new program ends up making a great hire. I think SLU could pull that off

-I get those two, one in the early 1990's and one a few years ago, if this is happening as often as DeSmet is saying there should be numerous examples

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-to Clock - seriously??? Third, I can name around a few hundred guys who can claim the same title of being a "Bobby Knight disciple". Not impressed with that argument but I'll take Bobby Knight himself for the next 5 years!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Third, I can name around a few hundred guys who can claim the same title of being a "Bobby Knight disciple". Not impressed with that argument but I'll take Bobby Knight himself for the next 5 years!!

I would too! Look, I'm not Crews apologist, and that is likely why we are agreeing the more that we are explaining our thoughts in these posts. But, I think that Crews can be really successful here at SLU. However, I think that the school must open up the wallet for him to hire and retain a top-notch staff. And, we must continue to recruit, evaluate and pinpoint the right talent. I really think the way we play basketball over the next month (hopefully that long) will set us up for a HUGE future. If we were to make the Final 4, recruiting will become a lot easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like a successful head coach who has a track record of recruiting and winning at a lower level programs. I know Romar had that bio but I think a more midwestern guy could do a little better here. I'll say again the parallels between Crews and Brad are there but Brad didn't have as much to work with.

For me the best argument against Crews is the fact that if the administration brought in someone with Crews resume to replace him everyone would be apoplectic.

Listening to Crews talk and him saying things like "I'm not driving this bus.....Once in a while I'll say turn left.....but I'm not driving this bus." One has to wonder if Crews is being respectful to Rick and the players and just how much credit he should get for this run. Dwayne evans formulating a the offense in the second half of the GW game was awesome, coach on the floor type stuff. Seems like maybe the actual coach should've come up with something....

I want someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would too! Look, I'm not Crews apologist, and that is likely why we are agreeing the more that we are explaining our thoughts in these posts. But, I think that Crews can be really successful here at SLU. However, I think that the school must open up the wallet for him to hire and retain a top-notch staff. And, we must continue to recruit, evaluate and pinpoint the right talent. I really think the way we play basketball over the next month (hopefully that long) will set us up for a HUGE future. If we were to make the Final 4, recruiting will become a lot easier.

i can live with that. personally i dont think we have that staff now. and i have no confidence that crews can do that part of the job himself. so that means someone has to go. if not crews, a member or two of the current staff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The argument that "Crews was successful before these kids were born" is completely moot. The "pros" of the program Jim Crews can NOW recruit to in 2013, far outweigh the "pros" that Jim Crews used to recruit to at the University of Evansville.

So what if these kids were born in 1994 or 1995... that doesn't make an iota of difference. Now if Jim Crews all of a sudden became Tyrone Willingham and spent more time golfing than he did recruiting, then we'd have an issue on our hands. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference when these recruits were born.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To echo roy and reiterate my stance -- I was not a Jim Crews fan. I still don't think I am today but the barometer sits squarely in the middle of my measuring gauge whereas in the beginning, it was on empty. He was very involved in both the GeeDub game and the St. Joe's games. He has come a long way from those early season moments against the likes of Santa Clara. I'll give him that. He still seems content to lose the fifth timeout at halftime and is somewhat judicious with using the rest but I think that's because of who is on the team/court.

Having said that, he does have the extra advantage of a veteran, seasoned team. He helped in one year of "developing" that but let's remember, he's only here because 1) Alex Jensen left abruptly, 2) he was a friend of Rick Majerus and 3) he was available as he was sitting out retirement after his dismissal from Army then two years prior. He was also only going to be here for one year. Now he's landed bassackwards into a pretty nice gig if he wants it (so it seems). But the questions still abound: can he recruit? Does he want to recruit? Is he the man we want in charge taking this program to the next level? Or even can he? There are no guys on this team that I call Crews guys -- they may have bought into him now, but make no mistake, they are all Majerus guys. McBroom and Drew are also Majerus guys. As for Crews -- we don't know. I can't think of a single Evansville alum that shined above all the rest during his time there. Marty Simmons was a local legend and transferred from Indiana -- Evansville fans swore he was the next Larry Bird back then. And Army -- get real.

As for developing players -- John Manning. No development there whatsoever. And I'm getting tired of hearing about big men being longer projects. I just watched 6'10" Kevin Larsen of Georege Washington, from DENMARK, throw down 12 points on us Saturday. How can he do it? Alonzo Nelson Adodoa is averaging playing a full half of each game for Richmond. Willie Clayton seems to be doing fine for Charlotte. Travion Leonhard at Fordam and Jordan Hare at Rhode Island are somewhat productive --- superstars in comparison to poor John. John is "averaging" al most seven minutes a game -- and we haven't seen him onth ecourt in at least half a dozen or so of th emost recent games.

Developing players ---- Grandy Glaze is out there "providing energy." Every announcer on every broadcast says that followed by "SLU is undefeated ever since Grandy got into the starting lineup." But development? I don't think so. This is neither to affirm nor condemn, just saying. He certainly did not develop any of the guys above the sophomore class either in my book. But he has caretakered this ship extremely well. Over and above expectations in my book. Hell, even Jim Whitesell looks energized and enagged on the bench and in timeouts. Winning affects all. And I sat ten feet from these guys atTemple -- they were not the same back then.

I am also a PR guy and that's my real concern. I hope we do whatever the right thing is, but I don't want to get into a decision governed by the national pundits calling for Crews' hire and the sentimentality that could blossom given the route this team and Crews have taken this year in obviously trying times. I think somone has already said, this is the signature hire in May's career. He can't blow it, whatever it is. This is another five years in the future. I don't want to live through another Spoon/LoRo/Brad reconstruction project when those five years are done because he takes a while of continued and extended failure to lead to the reconstruction moment and it takes another similar amount of time to reclimb the mountain doing all this old crap all over again. I want Big Dance discussions 7 out of every 10 years, or even better.

To be fair, this was coming. I and others believe this was going to be Majerus' swan song year ---- lead us to the Sweet Sixteen (or whatever), prove the world his HOF credentials, show all how he alone resurrected a brain dead program and then thumbs his nose at Biondi and rides blissfully into his personal sunset. That's where sustainability scared me. And here we find ourselves.

This will be a leap of faith -- faith in Chris May -- no matter the path chosen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taj, your nut graf about Manning was absolutely spot-on. Chantilly Lace is my new nickname for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@metz --- I like John and drool at the thought of what he might be. I call this my "Heiney Complex." Sadly, that too was premature adolation. But Heiney was servicable by his senior year.

I had the chance to meet the Manning "entoruage" at Temple. I am certain they were there at Foggy Bottom but did not get to talk to them. I would be curious as to their take on John's development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-can you refresh my memory on a couple BCS coaches that were not fired that moved to mid-major jobs?

-at this moment SLU is not mid-major, might be soon, however

Note that my post also included moves from one BCS school to another, where it wasn't exactly moving on to a higher level job. A few examples over the last few years off the top of my head, with the BCS to BCS moves included, since if we get in the Big East, we're suddenly in a power conference.

Greg McDermott: Iowa State to Creighton (as Ace already mentioned)

Frank Martin: Kansas State to South Carolina; I think most would say that KSU has been a stronger program than South Carolina, but Martin didn't like something about K-State and moved on to USC.

Steve Alford: Iowa to New Mexico

Jim Christian: TCU (which is now in the Big 12) to Ohio

Tubby Smith: Kentucky to Minnesota

Trent Johnson: LSU to TCU

Oliver Purnell: Clemson to DePaul

The point of my post was that even though we generally consider the coaching jobs at the BCS schools, normally schools with football programs as well, to be the top jobs, sometimes those coaches find problems with those jobs and seek out a possibly less prestigious program that they believe to be a better fit. Sometimes it's a opportunity to get out before you overstay your welcome (McDermott), some times it's due to just getting tired of possible over criticism (Smith), sometimes you just don't like your AD or administration (Martin). Sometimes it could be a combo of all of those (Alford).

Basically, have the job open and see what happens. You never know who might be impressed by our recent success, our facilities, salary that SLU might be able to offer, and the whole Big East thing if it happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The argument that "Crews was successful before these kids were born" is completely moot. The "pros" of the program Jim Crews can NOW recruit to in 2013, far outweigh the "pros" that Jim Crews used to recruit to at the University of Evansville.

So what if these kids were born in 1994 or 1995... that doesn't make an iota of difference. Now if Jim Crews all of a sudden became Tyrone Willingham and spent more time golfing than he did recruiting, then we'd have an issue on our hands. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference when these recruits were born.

And many other coaches were able to have success at programs like Evansville where Jim Crews didn't have much success to speak of.

I appreciate the fact that he can coach a smart, talented, upper class roster to the levels most thought they would be at.

However, I'm still having trouble seeing him as a guy I want rolling that roster over and continuing the success with players he recruits and develops when he has 20 + years experience that says he can't really do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taj, your nut graf about Manning was absolutely spot-on. Chantilly Lace is my new nickname for him.

Haha. The best part about the most recent sighting of Manning (G-dub game) was right after he turned the ball over, seconds after he came into the game. I wish I had the game on record so I could make a gif (jimbo?!). They put the camera on Manning and he clearly say "Fuock Me"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...