Big East Break-Up Thread (Merged)

[JettFlight5]

Latest news is more "conjecture" from Milwaukee:

X/Butler are it, and there's a 9 team league on tap.

I don't think that's nearly the end of things.

[Franchise_08]

The X guy posted on Twitter that the three will be X, Butler and probably SLU with Dayton and Creighton behind SLU. Also, the league will start with 10 and may expand later to 12.

[STLfan]

I feel better that the two top teams are lobbying for us, but picking Dayton over SLU would be outrageous. VCU seems to be a bad fit with the current teams. I am a bit worried about Creighton.

Agree with you.

Creighton looks like they might be our toughest competition but we do have some good things in our favor. We have pretty good history with Marquette, DePaul, and Xavier. Plus it sounds like two of the three heavyweights (GTown, MU, and Nova) are in our corner with Georgetown and Marquette. If DePaul has a say you would think they would be on our side as well. Even Butler should be pulling for SLU since we are only a few hours away and they recruit STL. Add that to our market size and nice facilities and I hope we are in good shape.

Can you imagine how much fun our home schedule would be with a ten team league of th BE7 + X, Butler, and us. Every year we would get Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence coming to Chaifetz Arena. I think we would have some real impressive crowds for those games. Local hoops fans and media would have to enjoy it. It might be the first time SLU would be in a deeper basketball conference than Mizzou with better games more often than not.

[milwaukeebill]

The X guy posted on Twitter that the three will be X, Butler and probably SLU with Dayton and Creighton behind SLU. Also, the league will start with 10 and may expand later to 12.

Can we get a twitter handle or name?

[Franchise_08]

Rick Boering @musketeerreport

[slu72]

If Biondi hadn't gone on the cheap w/ Spoon we'd have been number 8 in the Beast and wouldn't even be worrying. The good Father finally got it when he built the Fetz, hopefully, it wasn't too little too late.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Is it just me or do you guys think it would be a done deal for SLU to the new Catholic Conference if RM was still in charge? Just don't have the confidence in our administration. BUT... I guess the new A10 is pretty good too, so it's a win/win.

I think Rick's untimely and unfortunate passing might shine a silver lining on just how prominent Saint Louis is in this discussion. Without Rick, we're just another Jesuit school like St. Peter's or Canisius.

[majerus mojo]

Folks on twitter have started referring to this as the "Big Priest" conference... sign me up for that nickname.

[BillikenFriar]

Lots of SLU supporters here in Providence.

[JettFlight5]

Lots of SLU supporters here in Providence.

Good to hear. Better allies than enemies at this point.

[JMM28]

SLU needs to start leaking things. Control the narrative.

[JettFlight5]

From A-10 Board:

Cincy television saying Dayton, X, Butler.

Please, please be bullshiite.

[MB73]

I don't think Majerus would have made a difference either. They won't be choosing schools based on the coach. Not one move in the whole conference dance has been made because of a coach.

Majerus would have made a huge difference. Are you comfortable relying on lame duck Biondi to get this done? I am not.

Rick was a dedicated, colorful, true hoops legend. An attraction, a future HOF coach who would give us more credibility with the big dogs like GT with his big picture approach and credibility with the development of good student athletes, not just winning.

To boot, all of his insider national contacts and supporters would have helped us in many, many ways.

A pity he is not here for this pivotal moment in SLU's future. A lot might happen soon, we need all the infuence we can gather.

[Franchise_08]

Not true...should find out Saturday, maybe

[For-DaLove]

From A-10 Board:

Cincy television saying Dayton, X, Butler.

Please, please be bullshiite.

I'd be shocked if this is true. I'm hearing it's X, Butler, and between us and Creighton. I expect us to be joining X and Butler.

[gmoser1210]

Why Dayton over SLU?

Dayton has more wins over the last 5 years than SLU (124-100)

Dayton has more NCAA tournament appearances over the last 10 years than SLU (3-1)

Dayton has a better NCAA APR score than SLU (990 to 923)

Dayton has been ranked in the AP poll 32 times in the past ten years, compared to SLU's one.

Dayton has a larger arena, which hosts the NCAA "First Four"

Dayton has a better ten-year average RPI than SLU (68.4 to 108.9)

Dayton has better attendance than SLU (12,154 to 7,757 last year)

Why SLU over Dayton?

Saint Louis has an average margin of victory of 14 over Dayton in 21 wins since 1980

SLU's arena is newer and state-of-the-art

SLU provides a larger media market

Honestly, while there are a lot of arguments for Dayton over SLU, the media market is a huge part of the equation. Also, if the conference really wants Creighton, SLU provides a closer conference opponent.

[gmoser1210]

SLU could be left in a scenario where the best option is MVC which is a huge step backwards.

If SLU is left out for the time being, they would have the opportunity to be more dominant in the A10, which would give them a better brand in a couple of years after the new conference becomes stable and the rest of the conference landscape stabilizes. At that point, the new league could expand to 12+.

So we are worried that a non Catholic "Butler" gets in to a Catholic league and SLU wouldn't. h'MMMM

Others have mentioned it (such as Mike Brey), but unless I'm mistaken, no one from any of the "Catholic Seven" have said anything about forming a Catholic-Only Conference. They have, however, specifically mentioned bring in Butler (and Xavier).

I would also say that SLU has a more desirable tv market than Butler not only because it is bigger but the competition there is much greater.

The two schools are more alike than you might think. Butler's market is #25 to SLU's #21. Not that much of a difference. Also, Butler has IU and Purdue to contend with, in addition to the Colts and Pacers. SLU has Mizzou and Illinois, plus the Rams and the Blues. Also, having lived in Indianapolis and Saint Louis, I think there is more of a Notre Dame following in Saint Louis.

On another note, what's with the hate on Butler, Bay Area Billiken? Personally, I like having Butler and SLU in the same conference. Maybe that's selfish of me because I cheer for both teams and I'll get to watch them play each other twice this season. That said, I just don't see how SLU is a stronger program than Butler like you suggest.

SLU is 16-11 all-time vs. Butler.

SLU was in the NCAA Tournament, Round of 32 in 2012. Neither Dayton nor Butler made the 2012 NCAA Tournament.

SLU is in the better media market vis-a-vis both, but especially Dayton.

SLU is 16-11 all time, but that's hardly relevant since the two teams have only played twice in the current millennium. Whether we like it or not, the conference carousel is driven by a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. The only meeting between the Billikens and the Bulldogs in the last ten years, Butler won 68-46. The time before that, SLU won 72-54. The two times before that, Butler won. However, this is getting into games in the early 90s/late 80s. Those games have zero impact on which of these two schools will be invited to a new conference.

You're right that SLU was in last year's tournament and Butler wasn't. However, in the last ten years, Butler has been to the tournament six times in comparison to the single appearance by the Billikens. Also, Butler has 15 wins in that time span, compared to SLU's lone victory.

SLU's media market is better than Butler's, but not by much. Also, Butler has garnered a more national audience over the past few years, thanks in large part to the national title game appearances.

I prefer letting Butler make its case for itself. A lot of those Butler NCAA appearances the last decade would not have happened had Butler not been the biggest fish in a smaller pond, dominating the mid-major Horizon League.

A lot of those Butler NCAA appearances the last decade were at-large bids that were extended despite playing in the Horizon League, not because of it. 2003, 2007, and 2009 were all at-large bids, two of which resulted in sweet sixteen appearances. The years that Butler won the Horizon's auto-bid (so we don't know if they were good enough to have gotten in without winning the weak Horizon League)? 2011 - NCAA Runner-Up. 2010 - NCAA Runner-Up. 2008 - NCAA 2nd round loss to to 2 seed Tennessee in OT. Those teams would have gotten an at-large bid if necessary. Moreover, teams don't get single-digit seeds in the tournament unless they're good enough to get into the tournament regardless of whether or not they win their conference. The last time Butler had a double digit seed was in 2003. Butler was successful in spite of being in the Horizon, not because it was in the Horizon.

[David King]

It's all about money.

To me, a 12 team league makes more sense than a 10 team league. But, if it does come down to 10 teams, the last slot is between SLU, Dayton, and possibly Creighton.

As, Marquette AD, Larry Williams pointed out, one of the big factors in choosing new teams is how they effect the overall league RPI. Putting 6 teams in the NCAA tournament, instead of 5, probably would have more of a financial impact than whatever the differences are in TV market size, arena size, etc.

While Creighton has had success in recent years, they are in a lousy conference , and I doubt they could stand up under Big East type scrutiny.

So it comes down to Dayton and SLU, and Dayton has SLU beat in terms of positive potential RPI influence...but just barely. Over the past several years, Dayton has clearly outperformed SLU in terms of RPI, but in recent years ( more like last year) SLU has come on strong. Increased alumni support,new facilities, and a high profile coach, culminating in a strong showing last year show that SLU is trending in the right direction.

However, now SLU is in limbo. The high profile coach is gone, and the big question is who will be next year's coach? That selection will send a strong signal on the seriousness of SLU's committment to a big time, Big East type program.

SLU needs to be proactive now. If they wait until spring to announce the new coach, the Catholic 7 will have already made their decision. Crews is gone, regardless. The best thing to do- right now- is to announce the signing of Bruce Pearl as the next coach of the St Louis University Billikens men's basketball team!

[slu72]

Hopefully, this is moot and the conference adds 5 teams; SLU, UD, X, Butler, and Creighton. A 12 team conference just makes more sense;

2 six team divisions:

East

GU

Nova

St. Johns

Seton Hall

Prov

X or DU

West

MU

DePaul

SLU

Butler

X or DU

Creighton

Adds more TV markets by bringing in the 21st, 25th, and whatever Omaha is besides Warren Buffet's hometown.

Travel expenses are reduced for MU and DePaul

More natural rivalries for the 2 game sets

More recruiting areas, admittedly this is a stretch on my part.

If they decide to go to west for expansion Butler and Dayton can move to the East while St. Mary's and the Zags join the west.

Actually, with this being a 99% all Catholic league, Butler just might be the odd man out.

[David King]

Why Dayton over SLU?

Dayton has more wins over the last 5 years than SLU (124-100)

Dayton has more NCAA tournament appearances over the last 10 years than SLU (3-1)

Dayton has a better NCAA APR score than SLU (990 to 923)

Dayton has been ranked in the AP poll 32 times in the past ten years, compared to SLU's one.

Dayton has a larger arena, which hosts the NCAA "First Four"

Dayton has a better ten-year average RPI than SLU (68.4 to 108.9)

Dayton has better attendance than SLU (12,154 to 7,757 last year)

Why SLU over Dayton?

Saint Louis has an average margin of victory of 14 over Dayton in 21 wins since 1980

SLU's arena is newer and state-of-the-art

SLU provides a larger media market

Honestly, while there are a lot of arguments for Dayton over SLU, the media market is a huge part of the equation. Also, if the conference really wants Creighton, SLU provides a closer conference opponent.

Several good points here. It is up to SLU (May, Biondi?) to convince the Catholic 7 to consider SLU's bright future over Dayton's not-as-bright past.

So, immediately announce Bruce Pearl as SLU's 2013-14 coach and it's a done deal!

[slu72]

Fr. B and May should have their butts on a plane as I type doing a whirlwind tour of Beast Presidents and pleading our case. We've had a lot of disappointments being Billiken fans over the years waiting for us to be a Top 50 program. Yes, we made strides w/ the Fetz and hiring RM, bet being left out of this would be a dagger to the heart for us fans.

And you can bet RM would have been working the phones to ESPN, Beast Coaches, et al lobbying to make sure the Bills were in the final mix. Pitino did it when he wanted UL out of CUSA.

What doesn't make sense to me in all of this is why only add 3 teams? It doesn't make sense. As for Brey, he was the one who mentioned on Sunday the 7 were looking for the conference to be all Catholic. If so, that would eliminate Butler so SLU and Butler would be left to battle it out.

[kshoe]

Why Dayton over SLU?

Dayton has more wins over the last 5 years than SLU (124-100)

Dayton has more NCAA tournament appearances over the last 10 years than SLU (3-1)

Dayton has a better NCAA APR score than SLU (990 to 923)

Dayton has been ranked in the AP poll 32 times in the past ten years, compared to SLU's one.

Dayton has a larger arena, which hosts the NCAA "First Four"

Dayton has a better ten-year average RPI than SLU (68.4 to 108.9)

Dayton has better attendance than SLU (12,154 to 7,757 last year)

Why SLU over Dayton?

Saint Louis has an average margin of victory of 14 over Dayton in 21 wins since 1980

SLU's arena is newer and state-of-the-art

SLU provides a larger media market

Honestly, while there are a lot of arguments for Dayton over SLU, the media market is a huge part of the equation. Also, if the conference really wants Creighton, SLU provides a closer conference opponent.

I was on the fence but now that I know Dayton has a higher APR they are certainly going to get the nod!

(Sarcasm for people that can't understand it)

[joe_davola]

Fr. B and May should have their butts on a plane as I type doing a whirlwind tour of Beast Presidents and pleading our case. We've had a lot of disappointments being Billiken fans over the years waiting for us to be a Top 50 program. Yes, we made strides w/ the Fetz and hiring RM, bet being left out of this would be a dagger to the heart for us fans.

And you can bet RM would have been working the phones to ESPN, Beast Coaches, et al lobbying to make sure the Bills were in the final mix. Pitino did it when he wanted UL out of CUSA.

What doesn't make sense to me in all of this is why only add 3 teams? It doesn't make sense. As for Brey, he was the one who mentioned on Sunday the 7 were looking for the conference to be all Catholic. If so, that would eliminate Butler so SLU and Butler would be left to battle it out.

Time for Biondi to make an offer they can't refuse.

[slu72]

This has been bugging me since it started leaking out that the Beast7 were looking only to add 3 teams to make a ten team league. It makes no sense not to add two more teams to the mix for a host of reasons; more TV markets, potential for more NCAA dollars, adding 5 teams would result in two divisions and reduce travel expenses for ancilliary sports such as soccer, baseball, etc.

Then it hit me, are they thinking of keeping UConn and Cincy in the bb mix? By doing so those schools might get to keep the NCAA dollars that are sitting in the Beast's coffers. They might also get out of paying hefty exit fees, and avoid the law suits and huge legal fees that are certain to follow if they abandon ship on their own.

Uconn and Cincy FB programs are like the red headed orphans of college FB right now. No conference appears to want them, so what are their options? Seek entry into the MAC, Mountain West, the Valley? Stay w/ the other FB programs that are currnetly set to join the Beast? I'm sure they don't want their hoops programs competing in a bb league whose teams have crappy RPI's. Also, they will be facing sky high travel budgets for the rest of their programs, ie you can't bus your baseball team to San Diego for a weekend series.

So maybe UConn and UC's best option is to stay with the 7 defectors for basketball only. Am sure the 7 would like to keep them as they boost RPI's and provide strong brands.

Is this the reason they're only looking to add 3 teams? If so, I believe this works to SLU's advantage over DU. They don't need DU if they've got X and UC which are only around 50 miles from Dayton.

Just a theory because adding only 3 schools to the new league makes little sense to my way of thinking.

[slu72]

++++, Joe.