gmoser1210

Hey jackass, why don't you head back over to the holyland of hoops board and post some more about how you'd rather have VCU than SLU in the new conference. I'm so glad you developed such a connection to your law school........ (insert lawyer joke here) Good to know someone actually read my post. I'd rather have both (and I said as much), but I think SLU has more question marks right now than VCU while VCU has had more success over the last ten years. Ultimately, I don't think it'll matter because VCU isn't private.

While I think there's a definite chance SLU wins, especially at home, I doubt it'll be a blowout like that. I think it'll be more like the SLU/Temple game.

Hinkle was also the AD for a period of time and was the person who started dying the leather orange so players could see the ball better.

Butler outrebounded Richmond 53-20. The win without Rotnei Clarke was absolutely encouraging. I can't wait for the Butler/SLU matchup. It'll be a heck of a game.

A lot of the comments on that article say nothing negative about the other A10 programs, and the vast majority of the comments seem okay with being behind VCU, but they have a point that 4th is too low for Butler. When you look at the numbers thus far, it's hard to make a good case for putting SLU and Temple ahead of Butler. Give it some time and the Bulldogs might slip to fourth, but they should be top two right now. For the record, I'm expecting SLU to be right up there with Butler and VCU now that Mitchell is back. I just can't justify putting SLU above Butler until I see SLU compete more with him playing. BTW, Irishdawg probably will be back.

Hey everyone. I hope it's okay that I advertise this on here, but I'm running a contest over at a10talk.com and I think some of you might have fun and its pretty easy to play. Once a week, you pick the winners of that week's conference games. You get a point for each correct pick. If you have trouble for some reason, you can post your picks here this week.

1. You're right. Hate is a strong word. I should have simply asked why you were degrading Butler's reputation. 2. I agree that now is the preferred time to get into the new league, but the simple truth is that it may not happen. If X, Butler, and Dayton are all gone from the A10, travel would absolutely suck for SLU, but that doesn't change the fact that SLU would likely be more dominant in the conference than it has in the past. Your point about Butler becoming more dominant in a watered-down A10 is exactly what happened in the Horizon/Midwestern Collegiate Conference/Midwestern City Conference. Now Butler has a recognizable brand and product that is among the top of non-FBS programs. While the travel would be frustrating, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if SLU did the same thing. 3. The #25 media market (Indianapolis) is in the basketball-infatuated state of Indiana. While the #21 media market has more viewers, it is likely that the #25 media market has more basketball viewers. 4. I did state the correct facts. I stated that the two programs have played each other twice in the current millennium. They played in the fall of 2002 and the fall of 2003. Yes, SLU won the last meeting in a 72-54 blowout. However, Butler won the year before in a 68-46 blowout. Any prior meetings were in the early 90s. Regardless, I still don't see how any of this gives SLU an advantage over Butler in getting into a new conference. 5. I disagree. The comparison you are using is between two programs in the 1980s. Using that time frame, SLU would look better than even Gonzaga. Who to bring into the conference is a business decision. You don't base business decisions on statistics that are 20+ years old. 6. I agree that SLU has been in a much tougher conference than Butler. I would never dispute that. What I dispute is that Butler's success has been a product of its conference affiliation. Few wins in the Horizon League helped Butler's resume, but losses would have been truly detrimental. You ask, "How many of those automatics would Butler have garnered in a tougher league?" The question is moot because the automatic bids were not necessary.. Butler positioned itself to get into the tournament by winning non-conference games against Michigan, Tennessee, Florida State, Gonzaga, Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Xavier, UCLA, etc. On your other note, I wasn't trying to defend Dayton. I was trying to answer the question posed by the original thread's title, "Why Dayton over SLU?". I find it an interesting debate. Finally, I'm not concerned with getting into a new conference. Whatever will be will be and there's nothing that I can do about it. My post was because it bothers me when I see someone putting down another program using outdated, irrelevant, or incorrect information to back them up. For the record, I cheer for both Butler and SLU and would be making the same type of points if this had happened the other way around on the Butler board. I hope that Butler and SLU both get invited to the new conference.

If SLU is left out for the time being, they would have the opportunity to be more dominant in the A10, which would give them a better brand in a couple of years after the new conference becomes stable and the rest of the conference landscape stabilizes. At that point, the new league could expand to 12+. Others have mentioned it (such as Mike Brey), but unless I'm mistaken, no one from any of the "Catholic Seven" have said anything about forming a Catholic-Only Conference. They have, however, specifically mentioned bring in Butler (and Xavier). The two schools are more alike than you might think. Butler's market is #25 to SLU's #21. Not that much of a difference. Also, Butler has IU and Purdue to contend with, in addition to the Colts and Pacers. SLU has Mizzou and Illinois, plus the Rams and the Blues. Also, having lived in Indianapolis and Saint Louis, I think there is more of a Notre Dame following in Saint Louis. On another note, what's with the hate on Butler, Bay Area Billiken? Personally, I like having Butler and SLU in the same conference. Maybe that's selfish of me because I cheer for both teams and I'll get to watch them play each other twice this season. That said, I just don't see how SLU is a stronger program than Butler like you suggest. SLU is 16-11 all time, but that's hardly relevant since the two teams have only played twice in the current millennium. Whether we like it or not, the conference carousel is driven by a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. The only meeting between the Billikens and the Bulldogs in the last ten years, Butler won 68-46. The time before that, SLU won 72-54. The two times before that, Butler won. However, this is getting into games in the early 90s/late 80s. Those games have zero impact on which of these two schools will be invited to a new conference. You're right that SLU was in last year's tournament and Butler wasn't. However, in the last ten years, Butler has been to the tournament six times in comparison to the single appearance by the Billikens. Also, Butler has 15 wins in that time span, compared to SLU's lone victory. SLU's media market is better than Butler's, but not by much. Also, Butler has garnered a more national audience over the past few years, thanks in large part to the national title game appearances. A lot of those Butler NCAA appearances the last decade were at-large bids that were extended despite playing in the Horizon League, not because of it. 2003, 2007, and 2009 were all at-large bids, two of which resulted in sweet sixteen appearances. The years that Butler won the Horizon's auto-bid (so we don't know if they were good enough to have gotten in without winning the weak Horizon League)? 2011 - NCAA Runner-Up. 2010 - NCAA Runner-Up. 2008 - NCAA 2nd round loss to to 2 seed Tennessee in OT. Those teams would have gotten an at-large bid if necessary. Moreover, teams don't get single-digit seeds in the tournament unless they're good enough to get into the tournament regardless of whether or not they win their conference. The last time Butler had a double digit seed was in 2003. Butler was successful in spite of being in the Horizon, not because it was in the Horizon.

Why Dayton over SLU? Dayton has more wins over the last 5 years than SLU (124-100) Dayton has more NCAA tournament appearances over the last 10 years than SLU (3-1) Dayton has a better NCAA APR score than SLU (990 to 923) Dayton has been ranked in the AP poll 32 times in the past ten years, compared to SLU's one. Dayton has a larger arena, which hosts the NCAA "First Four" Dayton has a better ten-year average RPI than SLU (68.4 to 108.9) Dayton has better attendance than SLU (12,154 to 7,757 last year) Why SLU over Dayton? Saint Louis has an average margin of victory of 14 over Dayton in 21 wins since 1980 SLU's arena is newer and state-of-the-art SLU provides a larger media market Honestly, while there are a lot of arguments for Dayton over SLU, the media market is a huge part of the equation. Also, if the conference really wants Creighton, SLU provides a closer conference opponent.

I can't speak for every Butler fan but my thoughts are with all of you and the SLU program tonight. Majerus was definitely unique, but he was also an outstanding coach. Our activity lost a true competitor.

I'm running a pick'ems contest over at a10talk.com, just in case anyone is interested. Here's the link. Once all of the non-conference games are over during the regular season, I'll announce two sets of winners -- one for those who participated during the exhibition games and one for those who didn't. That way you can still play and not be 16 points behind.

You don't want Whitesell as a permanent head coach. He constantly under-performed with decent recruits at Loyola (IL). I also doubt you'll get Lickliter. He's got enough money that he doesn't need a good gig. He's coaching at Marian in Indianapolis because it's in his hometown and it's not high stakes. Good alternative to retirement. Graves would be a good get, but I don't know if he'd go to a school in the same conference. If he did, it would probably be SLU. I think John Becker from Vermont might be a good get, or Tim Cluess from Iona. It would entertain me if SLU got Anthony Evans from Norfolk State -- the guy who coached the Spartans past Mizzou in the tournament last year. Steve Donahue might also be a good get if he gets canned from Boston College after this year, which I doubt will happen.

Will they be hiring another assistant coach or will they stick with just Whitesell and Bronson? Also, I'm glad they chose Crews over Whitesell (who I believe is incompetent) but I'm surprised since Whitesell is the "Associate Head Coach" while Crews was just an assistant. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

I'm a Butler fan but I'm also a SLU law student (and Billikens fan) who's been reading this board for a while. I just never had the desire to participate before today.

Exactly. Butler is a legitimate program, not just a flash of lightning. They've been to the NIT or NCAA tournament 13 times in the past 15 years. They've been to the NCAA tournament 10 times in the past 15 years, including the last five successive seasons. They've been to four sweet sixteens and two national championship games. Butler has built a program that has shown that it has staying power - it hasn't just been 2010 and 2011.