Box and Won Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 A-10 last 3-4 yrs has been 0.01 or so better than MVC in RPI. Right now, 0.0077. Big deal I'm more concerned with bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I generally agree with this. I think whichever conference has X and UD makes it the better choice (kind of a "duh" comment). But you raise a bigger point, does the MVC have a better TV deal for SLU? It seems MVC games are generally on Fox Sports MW at the same time we are scrambling to find SLU on some online stream. I don't watch enough...err...any MVC games. Are the officials any better? Xavier and Dayton go to the valley on the same day the gates to hell crack open...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I generally agree with this. I think whichever conference has X and UD makes it the better choice (kind of a "duh" comment). But you raise a bigger point, does the MVC have a better TV deal for SLU? It seems MVC games are generally on Fox Sports MW at the same time we are scrambling to find SLU on some online stream. I don't watch enough...err...any MVC games. Are the officials any better? Not entirely sure about the TV thing. The MVC does have a deal with Fox Sports Regional, which would be very good. I also think it'd be easier for local networks to send crews and get us on local TV. I also don't watch many MVC games, but it's impossible for the officiating to be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I don't know how this evolved into a straight MVC vs. A-10 discussion, but I do believe that the A-10 without X, UD, and Temple is inferior to the MVC as a basketball conference. Throw in geography, the A-10's crappy television contract, and their crappy officials, it's even more favorable towards the MVC. Hopefully, Temple will stay or the A-10 will add Butler or another quality bball only program. This. I think many people on here just see MVC and immediately think 'I don't want anything to do with it!'. I don't want to be the only one joining the Valley, but if there was a chance that X, Dayton and maybe even Butler joined along with us, then that of course becomes a whole other animal. Maybe Temple doesn't leave. Or maybe Butler is the replacement for Temple in the A-10. But if those don't happen, and X and Dayton decide to look elsewhere, we need to join up with them and figure out the best scenario. And joining the Valley with them, and making it a bigger, better conference is a pretty decent option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This. I think many people on here just see MVC and immediately think 'I don't want anything to do with it!'. I don't want to be the only one joining the Valley, but if there was a chance that X, Dayton and maybe even Butler joined along with us, then that of course becomes a whole other animal. Maybe Temple doesn't leave. Or maybe Butler is the replacement for Temple in the A-10. But if those don't happen, and X and Dayton decide to look elsewhere, we need to join up with them and figure out the best scenario. And joining the Valley with them, and making it a bigger, better conference is a pretty decent option. I'll even take it another level. I believe that the MVC with SLU, UD, X, and Butler might be a superior basketball conference to the A-10 in its current form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'll even take it another level. I believe that the MVC with SLU, UD, X, and Butler might be a superior basketball conference to the A-10 in its current form. I'd agree with that 100%. Every conference will always have a dog or two, but the MVC doesn't have anything as consistently bad as Fordham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'll even take it another level. I believe that the MVC with SLU, UD, X, and Butler might be a superior basketball conference to the A-10 in its current form. There is absolutely no doubt that would be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Again, reality is a lot of MVC is hoosierville and SOME people on this board have higher hopes for SLU. Not just on the basketball court, but on name recognition and as an academic powerhouse. MVC will solidify our spot as an average Midwest school that no one has ever heard of and is only able to recruit STUDENTS from 300 miles away, much less able to recruit GREAT PLAYERS to come play Evansville in the big time spot light... Good grief... some people just love being mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 MVC will solidify our spot as an average Midwest school that no one has ever heard of and is only able to recruit STUDENTS from 300 miles away, much less able to recruit GREAT PLAYERS to come play Evansville in the big time spot light... Good grief... some people just love being mediocre.People keep using Evansville and/or Drake as examples of schools that would be crappy games, but they're no worse than playing Fordham or St. Bonaventure. It's the same argument in reverse that the SLU supporters use when the average STL Today poster says I can't excited about watching SLU play Fordham or St. Bonaventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 People keep using Evansville and/or Drake as examples of schools that would be crappy games, but they're no worse than playing Fordham or St. Bonaventure. It's the same argument in reverse that the SLU supporters use when the average STL Today poster says I can't excited about watching SLU play Fordham or St. Bonaventure. Good point, SShoe. Just to help reiterate the point...we aren't comparing the MVC with the A-10 on how they exist CURRENTLY. This is merely a discussion on a possible scenario where X, Dayton and SLU left the A-10 and joined and expanded the MVC. At that point, the MVC becomes an entirely different conference. If you throw in Butler and and do a slight name change of the conference (say, The Valley), then you see a conference that is at the same level, if not better, than the current A-10. And for those who care, you would also have more private (8) schools than public (6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Alright. I will appoint myself as general spokesman for X and UD and pontificate the following: First, while things can certainly change, recall that X and UD joined the A10 when we ran off with DePaul and Marquette to Great Midwest/Conf USA. X and UD would be (and were) fine in the A10 without SLU. Don't assume there will be some really great "Catholic loyalty" toward us when we chose their hated rival, Cincy, over both of them. Before Great Midwest, UD and Cincy had a good home-away series each year with Cincy. Second, geography is not so bad in the A10 for X and UD as it is for SLU. Dayton, OH can realistically be considered a distant suburb of Cincinnati and is included in the greater Cincy TV market for professional sports such as Reds baseball games and Bengals football games. Unlike St. Louis, Pittsburgh (Duquesne) is only a 4 hour drive for them and while neither UD nor X consider Duquesne their biggest rival, the cities of Cincy and Pittsburgh are certainly rival cities, in general, including sports. Starting 350 miles closer than us here in St. Louis, travel to the East Coast is still tough but more realistic. Third, as previously mentioned with SLU/Fr. Biondi, both X and UD want to expand their presence (future students, alumni, etc.) to the East Coast. Neither UD nor X are interested in attracting students from Southern IL, southwestern MO, Nebraska and Iowa and are really only interested in students/alumni from Chicago and not from the rest of the state of IL. Fourth, UD's basketball program (going back to their glory years in the 1960's, 1970's and through the 1985 "Roosevelt Chapman" years when they liked to say they made it to the "Final Five" - last team eliminated from the Elite Eight, had recruiting pipelines to New York City and the East Coast. In short, UD and X look to NY like we look to Chicago. Thank you. Clock_Tower - the self appoited spokesmen for X and UD. Now excuse me as I have to take off this tight sweater vest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The reason SLU didn't join the MVC had nothing to do with the quality of basketball in the MVC. The problems with the MVC then are still the problems with the MVC today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The reason SLU didn't join the MVC had nothing to do with the quality of basketball in the MVC. The problems with the MVC then are still the problems with the MVC today. That's rather vague. Do you mean the "problems" the MVC had when SLU left or the "problems" the MVC had when SLU left C-USA? Also, what "problems" are you referring to? Sure, the Valley hasn't been the same since Tulsa left, but all conferences have peaks and valleys, no pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Xavier joining the MVC? lmao. You know it's a good season when our discussions get this far-fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Again, reality is a lot of MVC is hoosierville and SOME people on this board have higher hopes for SLU. Not just on the basketball court, but on name recognition and as an academic powerhouse. MVC will solidify our spot as an average Midwest school that no one has ever heard of and is only able to recruit STUDENTS from 300 miles away, much less able to recruit GREAT PLAYERS to come play Evansville in the big time spot light... Good grief... some people just love being mediocre. Let's join the Ivy League. I suppose we could always go to the Patriot league if we wanted to keep scholarship athletes, but that might be conceding that we aren't a top national university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That's rather vague. Do you mean the problems the MVC had when SLU left or the problems the MVC had when SLU left C-USA? Also, what "problems" are you referring to? The problems when we left CUSA. The problems I am talking about are the MVC's footprint and the make up of it's institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Let's join the Ivy League. I suppose we could always go to the Patriot league if we wanted to keep scholarship athletes, but that might be conceding that we aren't a top national university. I think we should join the Pac 12. We would dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think we should join the Pac 12. We would dominate. No no. Good students only come from the east coast. And there are too many public schools. Although we could look forward to a matchup between RM and his old employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Really, I like them over Fordham, St. B, Duq, and LaSalle. I could go to some road games and the home crowds would be bigger. And Bradley is having an awful year, but they have had some success lately. No question that you can get to a road game eaiser in the Valley but no our attendance will not be better - this has been discussed many times, when we play a Valley team our home attendance does not increase that much except when we schedule SMS on Winter Break. For me SBU, DU, LS, URI are not worse then playing Bradley, Evansville, Ind. State, ILS - they are the same but if staying in the A10 leaves us more long term options then I can put up with those teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Fans: A-10 last 3-4 yrs has been 0.01 or so better than MVC in RPI. Right now, 0.0077. Big deal. -i don't have the numbers but i would think that is a very large 'or so' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I thought you weren't a big believer in computer rankings. That is not what I have ever written. I say RPI is decent, probably the gold standard, and since it is used by the NCAA selection committee it is therefore the most relevant for us to follow, but certainly not perfect. It is respectable and close to the true rankings based upon W-L, SOS, top 25-50 wins, quality wins on the road, and the quality of good / bad losses. And I say KenPom and Sagarin and The Wiz models are much more inaccurate than RPI because they allow for huge variances based upon inherently flawed mathematical assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'll even take it another level. I believe that the MVC with SLU, UD, X, and Butler might be a superior basketball conference to the A-10 in its current form. Absolutely, it would be so much better for us... I would take SLU and 2 of those 3 into the MVC (UD, X, or Butler) then we would have something. (If Temple leaves, and A-10 starts to break apart... that is the reason for this discussion... where would we go?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I called you self righteous because you characterized the Missouri Valley as hooterville. Not sure if you realize it, but you live in the Missouri Valley (as evidenced by the fact that the MVC tournament is in St. Louis.) I have no quarrel with you wanting SLU to be the best Catholic university in the US. That sounds like a great goal. have you been to terre haute, peoria, carbondale, springfield, etc recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Let me first say that I have nothing against the Valley. It's a good brand of basketball. I have been known to turn on an SIUC-Creighton game when both teams are good. However, the correlation between the A-10 and MVC when it comes to academics is non-existent. I know College Rankings aren't an exact science or the end-all be-all of deciding factors, and I am not trying to be a snob, I am merely regurgitating factual information to show the disparity in academic prowess between the two Conferences. A few of my family members have gone to Valley schools and loved it, so this is not an indictment on the quality education either... Atlantic 10 National Universities George Washington- 50 Fordham- 53 SLU- 90 (Begrudgingly) UMass- 94 Dayton- 101 Duquesne- 119 Temple- 132 Rhode Island- 160 Charlotte- 194 Regional Universities (MW) Xavier- 4 Regional Universities (N) St. Josephs- 8 St. Bonaventure- 32 LaSalle- 41 Liberal Arts Colleges 14. Richmond- 27 Missouri Valley National Universities Illinois State- 160 SIUC- 170 Indiana State- Not Ranked Wichita State- Not Ranked Regional (MW) Creighton- 1 Drake 3 Bradley-6 Evansville-9 Northern Iowa- 16 Missouri State- 53 The mere fact that the Valley has 6 schools (60%) categorized as Regional Universities is cause for concern in my eyes. I do not want SLU to regress into a perceived regional university. The addition of X, UD, and perhaps Butler would help tremendously, but not enough to sway the overall conference composition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Also, what would be the problem with a Temple-less A-10? I wouldn't mind dominating a weaker conference for a while as long as we get NCAA appearances. Butler and Gonzaga have parlayed that formula into a combined 20 NCAA bids over the past 11 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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