Transfer Talk

[slu72]

I'm amazed that in a number of recent posts there have been numerous insinuations that there may be a number of transfers next year. Doesn't make sense to me. The frosh are all getting a lot of experience and playing time, and should know, even w/ the return of KM and WR, they'll still get a lot of minutes next year. Usually, transfers come about because the kid has a better chance at court time at another school. Next most popular reason is a conflict with the coach which usually ends with the kid getting reduced playing time. Third is a system dysfuntion. The kid hates the system. For you guys a lot closer to the program than I, our are current kids having these problems? I do realize a couple of players may well be upset with their reduced minutes this year, but upset enough to say sayanora SLU?

[Taj79]

My recent comments to this topic are based on the three-year record of the current regime. Proof is in the pudding and we have had 4-2-4 transfers/cuts the three years of Rick. A zero would be nice but until I see it, I'm expecting the norm to continue.

For sequencing then, this is a "2" year.....

I have no real knowledge or insight to this.

[HusakAttack]

My recent comments to this topic are based on the three-year record of the current regime. Proof is in the pudding and we have had 4-2-4 transfers/cuts the three years of Rick. A zero would be nice but until I see it, I'm expecting the norm to continue.

For sequencing then, this is a "2" year.....

I have no real knowledge or insight to this.

I have used the same logic...I havent heard anything of any specific player wanting out

[SShoe]

My recent comments to this topic are based on the three-year record of the current regime. Proof is in the pudding and we have had 4-2-4 transfers/cuts the three years of Rick. A zero would be nice but until I see it, I'm expecting the norm to continue.

For sequencing then, this is a "2" year.....

I have no real knowledge or insight to this.

Because you have no real knowledge or insight to this, maybe it's best that people on this board don't speculate on transfers. Is it possible? Sure. But talking out your ass about the actual lives of 18 or 19 year-old student-athletes, not their basketball performances, does more harm than good, imo.

[Archy McNally]

Because you have no real knowledge or insight to this, maybe it's best that people on this board don't speculate on transfers. Is it possible? Sure. But talking out your ass about the actual lives of 18 or 19 year-old student-athletes, not their basketball performances, does more harm than good, imo.

In Taj's defense, he did not single anyone out and was very general about the topic.

[SShoe]

In Taj's defense, he did not single anyone out and was very general about the topic.

From one of his posts in the "Reality Is Hard To Take" thread.

"The dinosaurs didn't adapt .... and look what happened to them ... not too good.

As for next year, let's look at the immediate past. In RM's first-to-second year, outside of seniors and walk-ons, he lost four players to transfer (Mitchell, Relaphorde, Maguire, Knollmeyer). Arguably, not "his" players. The next year, he lost two (Daniel Lisch and Brett Thompson). Last year, four more (John, Smith, Reid, Jordan). That's an average of 3.3 scholarship players per year leaving the school and the program.

The current candidates are: Jett, McCall, Salescich, Evans, Ellis, Remekun and Loe.

Making next year's LOADED roster Mitchell, Eckerle, Conklin, Cassity, and Barnett with Reed and Manning possibles."

[SLUDrew]

The players that have left the program to date have done so because it did not appear at the time the decision was made that there would be much time for them in the coming years. There is not one player, amongst the freshmen at least, that the same would seem to pertain to this time around. McCall and Jett might very well be four-year starters.

Evans has started/seen a lot of time and projects to play a lot going forward. In addtion there isn't anyone in the next class to threaten them for minutes.

Loe might be disappointed in the minutes he has gotten recently. Frankly, if I were him I would be. However, we have no idea if he is disappointed or not AND since I am sure he has notions of playing pro ball somewhere I would doubt he would want to delay that by sitting out a year.

[Taj79]

For the record, I have a patent pending on "talking out my ass" so thanks, sshoe, for noticing ....

Look, its a reality in the current operating procedures of this regime. More directly, Rick's operating procedures. What's the problem? He gets four or five guys into the fold and then finds out some don't fit his mold. So what happens then? See ya! Hit the road jack! Don't come back no more, no more.

I understand the sentiment of "you should not mess with the lives of 18- and 19-year olds" in these ways but how does one justify aligning that human setiment with the cut-and-dried business side of "just win baby." I'm not sure one can and I am lucky I personally don't have to woryy about that or balance it. Just because Rick walks up to a John Smith or a Femi John and says "I'm sorry, I screwed up in recruiting you and only now, after a year in y program can I really see you ain't worth shinola/will never walk/run again" or whatever does it make it right and okay. For obvious reasons, we should not be running a jobs tryout program here every year. And kids leave because they ARE 18 and 19 years old and wake up one morning realizing "hey I made a huge mistake coming here and signing with this great HOF fattie" or whatever.

It's reality. We could also speculate who will or won't make grades. Who will or won't find themselves in a similar "situation." Who might suffer a serious injury. Or graduate early and move on to grad school at an institution offering a thelogy degree. Or phys ed masters.

As I said, I know nothing but I'd be willing to offer 4-to-1 odds someone leaves the program by next fall. I even have a name I'd throw out there as my favorite horsein this race but naming a name would not be fair at this point. I'm just saying .....

I k

[Clock_Tower]

Taj kept his comments general and simply based upon RM's last 3 years. No one is suggestion that a given player is unhappy or even thinking about a transfer.

If names are put to the topic, and I think this is a valid topic, then I would say that next will finally be the year that KC's time is cut back. If JB shoots the ball as expected and has a general knack for the game, he can fill KC's role as the "glue" for the team. Also, with the return of WR, RL and the new 7 foot Frosh, BC's time will be cut back. Neither KC nor BC will leave b/c they are playing major minutes now and they will have only 1 year left (next year) with no real post-college basketball plans.

WR and KM will not transfer. They have their choice and just re-commmitted to SLU.

I don't see MM or JJ wanting to leave just b/c of KM. There are enough minutes to share. RM will play 8 to 10 guys and, frankly, no one wants to be on a bad team. Instead, they want a team with good players.

As to RL and DE, they each are playing now (as Frosh) and have very little competition aside from WR and things are still doubtful if he will even return to the court, and if so, how long he will stay.

Instead, I only see transfer in the event of bad grades, homesickness or following that end of season talk with RM.

[jbizzle09]

Let's take a look at the reasonings behind the transfers of the past three seasons:

2008

Maguire: Soderberg recruit who had no business playing D-1 ball. Majerus gave him honest assessment and basically sent him packing.

Knollmeyer: See Maguire.

Mitchell: See Maguire and Knollmeyer.

Relphorde: Majerus envisioned him as a 4 when Relphorde wanted to play wing. Relphorde decided to leave and wound up at Colorado.

2009

Cotto: Left during the season. Wanted more playing time and didn't like competing with KM, so just decided to bolt right away.

Thompson: Didn't like being called out by RM about his work ethic. Left and went to Lindenwood, an NAIA school. Had to sit out first semester at Lindenwood due to poor grades at SLU. Turns out RM was right to question his work ethic.

Nobody better count Lisch as a transfer/cut!

2010

Reid: Suffered concussion early in the season and was unable to get back on court. Decided to play closer to home.

Smith: RM wanted him to stay. Decided to transfer as he felt he would not get sufficient playing time over the next couple of seasons.

Jordan: RM basically pushed him out. Told him he would be at end of bench if he stayed.

John: Injuries caused him to have to stop playing. Still on scholarship and comes out with the team every game.

I would say it is unfair to hold the first year transfers against RM. Biondi brought in RM only after Soderberg had signed all of his recruits and did not give RM anytime to recruit for the upcoming season. It is completely understandable that there would be a large amount of transfers right after that, especially considering the low level of talent that Soderberg brought in. If Biondi makes the switch earlier as he should have, we don't see that type of situation occur.

Personally, I don't really see any of these 4 freshmen wanting to transfer. They are all receving plenty of playing time now and figure into the team's plans in the future. If anyone transfers, it will probably be CS, only because he looks to be riding the pine the next two seasons. But, he is also an honor roll student who may decide it is best to get his degree from SLU, despite his limited playing options.

The fact is, there are myriad reasons why kids transfer. To just assume that RM is the reason why all of these kids have transferred over the past 3 seasons is just looking to pile onto RM due to personal agenda.

[Taj79]

Come on, sshoe, would you disagree that most NCAA D1 players transfer either after their first or second year in a given program????? If you agree with that then all you have to do s look at who fits that criteria in our program. That's all I did. Once again, I have no insider informstion, just engaging in pure speculation. I could do that for every roster in America.

I can also say that before Majerus, either it never happened in the SLU program or it happened so rarely, I didn't stand up and take notice. Does it happen outside th enorm Sure ---- Pederson, Jamal Johnson, Kowal, Jeff Ford, etc. Most are one- or two-year guys like Mimlitz, Roder, Lenard, Bryant, Thompson, Smith, Clarke, Waldman and so on. It aligns quite well with the JUCO transfer.

Not saying anyone is going but again, I've got a 4-to-1 favorite already in mind. Maybe two.

[Taj79]

To jbizzle: kids leave. Doesn't matter who or why and while what you have commented about each is the speculative (I think) conclusion(s) of most on this board including me, that is immaterial. Bottom line: kids leave. Bottom line and one: kids have left this program in droves ovee these past thre years. Bottom line ergo: more will leave this year.

Again, I hope to be proven wrong.

[slufanskip]

No chance JJ and MM are 4 year starters unless we go 4 guards and we won't. We won't start KM, JJ, and MM with JB and KC coming off the bench.

Next year 120 minutes between KC, JB, KM, MM, JJ, and CS. KM gets 30 so you have 90 between the other 5 or more if you give CE and/or DE any minutes in this group.

Next year 80 minutes between WR, RL, BC, CR and JM. WR gets 25 so you have 55 between the other 4 or more if you add CE and/or DE to this group.

CE and DE still have to be added.

Minutes will be hard to come by and I for one won't be shocked if someone isn't happy with his. Maybe everyone says I'm better off playing 15 for an NCAA caliber team than 30 for a lesser team. Or maybe someone thinks I'm the guy that can be this teams KM or WR and propel them to greatness so why am I sitting here.

[brianstl]

Because you have no real knowledge or insight to this, maybe it's best that people on this board don't speculate on transfers. Is it possible? Sure. But talking out your ass about the actual lives of 18 or 19 year-old student-athletes, not their basketball performances, does more harm than good, imo.

We yalk about if they do or do not suck as players. We talk about if they are up to the level of being a SLU student. We talk about what kind of people they are. I think they are old enough for us to ask if they may transfer or not.

[SShoe]

Come on, sshoe, would you disagree that most NCAA D1 players transfer either after their first or second year in a given program????? If you agree with that then all you have to do s look at who fits that criteria in our program. That's all I did. Once again, I have no insider informstion, just engaging in pure speculation. I could do that for every roster in America.

I can also say that before Majerus, either it never happened in the SLU program or it happened so rarely, I didn't stand up and take notice. Does it happen outside th enorm Sure ---- Pederson, Jamal Johnson, Kowal, Jeff Ford, etc. Most are one- or two-year guys like Mimlitz, Roder, Lenard, Bryant, Thompson, Smith, Clarke, Waldman and so on. It aligns quite well with the JUCO transfer.

Not saying anyone is going but again, I've got a 4-to-1 favorite already in mind. Maybe two.

Maybe this is just a personal preference, but it's something I think this board should avoid. You're probably right that someone will transfer and I would not be surprised if we're thinking of the same "favorite," but I've always felt this type of discussion is less kosher material for a public forum that is read by some of the players and/or their families, especially given that we're just throwing names out there at this point with nothing but past trends to base this speculation on. And what's the point of listing the names of players that qualify as transfer candidates, even if they truly are one? To me it does nothing but list players that the "loyal" fanbase thinks may be better off somewhere else, even if that's not the poster's intention, which I certainly don't think is the case here.

Overall, you're right that we've never had this many transfers in SLU's illustrious past, but part of that has to do with our level of recruiting between now and then. How often have we had players such as Jon Smith who worried about playing time because there was too much talent on the team? Not too often under previous regimes. Given what Majerus had when he started here, it was pretty clear that he was going to have to stuff a few recruiting classes full of players at once, which of course is going to lead to playing time issues. When things are more balanced out, playing time becomes less of an issue as freshmen get to be freshmen and seniors get to be seniors.

[Bizziken]

No chance JJ and MM are 4 year starters unless we go 4 guards and we won't. We won't start KM, JJ, and MM with JB and KC coming off the bench.

Next year 120 minutes between KC, JB, KM, MM, JJ, and CS. KM gets 30 so you have 90 between the other 5 or more if you give CE and/or DE any minutes in this group.

Next year 80 minutes between WR, RL, BC, CR and JM. WR gets 25 so you have 55 between the other 4 or more if you add CE and/or DE to this group.

CE and DE still have to be added.

Minutes will be hard to come by and I for one won't be shocked if someone isn't happy with his. Maybe everyone says I'm better off playing 15 for an NCAA caliber team than 30 for a lesser team. Or maybe someone thinks I'm the guy that can be this teams KM or WR and propel them to greatness so why am I sitting here.

Good analysis...I have been crunching numbers since before KM and WR got reinstated...it's not going to be pretty (with respect to minute allocation) next season...at least having too many good players is a great problem to have

[SShoe]

We yalk about if they do or do not suck as players. We talk about if they are up to the level of being a SLU student. We talk about what kind of people they are. I think they are old enough for us to ask if they may transfer or not.

To me, saying someone sucks as a player is less damaging because it's an observation rather than hearsay, gossip, or speculation.

For the record, it annoys me when people (including the coach) speculate or insinuate about the player's academics (unless they're very good).

Again, personal preference.

[Box and Won]

M with sshoe on this one. The transfer talk makes me a little uneasy.

With regards to incoming transfers, I'm a bit surprised that JB is the first one to join the progam since Maj's arrival. I kind of thought we'd see more for some reason. Our program has a pretty decent history with transfers overall.'

[courtside]

Last year there were 474 NCAA men's division 1 basketball transfers.

[billiken_roy]

Which means slu had over twice the transfers of the average per team

[dlarry]

Which means slu had over twice the transfers of the average per team

Thats true and I dont like all of the kids leaving but out of last years bunch:

One was a midget who was going to be suspended for the first semester. (Jordan)

Another the team wanted to stay but left and he would of been suspended the first semester. (Smif)

A third had a awful head injury and is now playing DII(I think) closer to home. (Reid)

We have no way to know but I wish we could see what would of happened with these guys.

If the "situation" doesnt happen Smif may stay.

IF Reid doesnt have a scary injury he may stay.

Jordan was probably gone no matter what but it may not of mattered. Im pretty sure he is already out of DI ball.

Its a frustrating thing to see but there has been some odd situations with all the players.

I dont really count the 08 transfers because most schools have a lot more transfers when a coaching change is put into place.

And the 09 guys Im just not so sure about at all.

Thompson is doing fine at Lindenwood but as previously mentioned was suspended for grades first semester. Maybe he knew SLU was just to hard for him.

ANd Cotto, well that kid never gave the school, the team, the coach or anything else a chance.

[Westy03]

If the "situation" doesnt happen Smif may stay.

Smif was already transferring. That was his going away present

[SShoe]

Smif was already transferring. That was his going away present

[Bobby Metzinger]

2008

Maguire: Soderberg recruit who had no business playing D-1 ball. Majerus gave him honest assessment and basically sent him packing.

Knollmeyer: See Maguire.

Mitchell: See Maguire and Knollmeyer.

Sums that era up, doesn't it?

[billikenfan05]

You been watching the VH1 SNL special too haven't you?