MB73 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 +1 Calling Majerus a courageous man is a bit much. While I am not on board with laying everything at the foot of Majerus for why this season has been lousy, I also don't think anyone should be calling a 300+ lb man who has had multiple bypass surgeries courageous. We are not too far apart... RM does not need this sh*t, but travels in his very fragile medical condition (a huge risk), and stands there on the court while huge athletes run 2 feet from him all night. I just do not think some of the people, though clearly not educated on his condtion, should poke fun and question how he could bleed as he did, how an infection can occur, etc. Brutal. Talk to a nurse, a hospital pharmacist, or of course an MD. At least read Web MD or something before you ridicule an accomplished 64 (?) year old man's medical condition. Is he "couragous"? I would say, "somewhat", and that's not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 We are not too far apart... RM does not need this sh*t, but travels in his very fragile medical condition (a huge risk), and stands there on the court while huge athletes run 2 feet from him all night. I just do not think some of the people, though clearly not educated on his condtion, should poke fun and question how he could bleed as he did, how an infection can occur, etc. Brutal. Talk to a nurse, a hospital pharmacist, or of course an MD. At least read Web MD or something before you ridicule an accomplished 64 (?) year old man's medical condition. Is he "couragous"? I would say, "somewhat", which is more than most on this planet can be called. That "fragile medical condition" could be avoided by diet and exercise. NOT COURAGEOUS. This episode is the opposite of courageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Notice my post above never once mentioned RM. Why? Because he isn't the reason this year's team is failing. He built a team that would be doing quite well with all the horses. There is not a single successful Billiken team in history that would have succeeded without its 2 best players. Its a simple fact that too many on here seem oblivious too. My complaints about Brad almost always centered around the recruiting disasters that became what could be this year and last years senior classes and the current team at Lindenwood. p.s. I'd be perfectly fine if RM quit tomorrow but all the existing players stayed and WR was reinstated. Its all about the horses and this would be a very attractive job for many coaches with this roster and the two year run we are poised for if KM and WR redshirt. Majerus recruited quite a few of the players that transferred. Majerus recruited the players that violated school policy. Even if we don't agree with the school's enforcement of that policy. Majerus recruited these players that can't hit FTs or open shots or are regressing from last year. Now to top it all off he is out three weeks with a infected cut? I don't expect this team to be post season caliber but they are flat out bad. Majerus and Sodeberg's first 3 seasons at SLU will have nearly identical results except that Brad got into the NIT twice (yes I realize that was prior to the rule change on regular season champs). Brad did it on less $ and in West Pine Gym. I don't want to go back to that either but Majerus bears some of the blame for the results this year. I would not be so harsh if he had not given up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Billikan - ND has been to the NCAA 3 of the last 4 years Lawyer Billiken - Our so-called best defender, salecich, has 6 steals. That is less than mccall, jordair, kyle, cody, and dwayne And I've played in the Rec against guys who could definitely hit better then 11%... too bad Majerus will never respect a walk-on Steals is not necessarily the best determinant of a solid defender. You could lock up your man and keep him from getting any good open looks or from getting the ball and have zero steals and be a much better defender than someone who gambles a lot and gets three steals per game but also gives up 25 points because of getting out of position going for the steal so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBilly Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Overall Majerus is a pig. He is so much more of a show than anything the past 10 years of his life. He hasn't done ###### in a decade ... what? One NCAA win? I love Slu ... but hiring him went against our values and it shows with his recruits. Since Sodeberg left Majerus hasn't even led us to an NIT. He has been a 5 million dollar bust so far. This man should not get a pass because of his previous success. I understand a couple years of rebuilding ... but three or four with not even an NIT, for a million dollars? Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 We are not too far apart... RM does not need this sh*t, but travels in his very fragile medical condition (a huge risk), and stands there on the court while huge athletes run 2 feet from him all night. I just do not think some of the people, though clearly not educated on his condtion, should poke fun and question how he could bleed as he did, how an infection can occur, etc. Brutal. Talk to a nurse, a hospital pharmacist, or of course an MD. At least read Web MD or something before you ridicule an accomplished 64 (?) year old man's medical condition. Is he "couragous"? I would say, "somewhat", and that's not bad. +1. Your recent posts have been right on target, IMO. To those who are making fun of him for his health and continuing to take low blows, Sorry the whole world isn't in as good of shape as you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not giving coach a complete pass , but I dont think he has missed a free throw yet this year. True, but he recruited the players who have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Dynasty Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Overall Majerus is a pig. He is so much more of a show than anything the past 10 years of his life. He hasn't done ###### in a decade ... what? One NCAA win? I love Slu ... but hiring him went against our values and it shows with his recruits. Since Sodeberg left Majerus hasn't even led us to an NIT. He has been a 5 million dollar bust so far. This man should not get a pass because of his previous success. I understand a couple years of rebuilding ... but three or four with not even an NIT, for a million dollars? Give me a break. I think the "values" you're talking about are the same ones used by the student court. If they wouldn't have gotten involved none of this panic discussion or Majerus bashing would even be taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How would Reed's and Mitchell's presence this season have made Ellis and Loe better defenders? Would Salecich be shooting more accurately and Cassity playing more assertively? Some of the players would probably be playing the way they are now even with Reed and Mitchell being on the team all season while others would benefit from their presence. If things keep going as bad as they are now, don't expect eveyone to return next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 How would Reed's and Mitchell's presence this season have made Ellis and Loe better defenders? Would Salecich be shooting more accurately and Cassity playing more assertively? Some of the players would probably be playing the way they are now even with Reed and Mitchell being on the team all season while others would benefit from their presence. If things keep going as bad as they are now, don't expect eveyone to return next season. -Willie's weakside blocks sure would have helped cover up other's mistakes. RL wouldn't have been expected to step in from day one and defend veteran big men. -Christian shooting doesn't matter now and wouldn't with KM and WR involved. Kyle wouldn't need to be more assertive if we had our top scorers. He could just be a role player, which is exactly what he's capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_davola Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Overall Majerus is a pig. He is so much more of a show than anything the past 10 years of his life. He hasn't done ###### in a decade ... what? One NCAA win? I love Slu ... but hiring him went against our values and it shows with his recruits. Since Sodeberg left Majerus hasn't even led us to an NIT. He has been a 5 million dollar bust so far. This man should not get a pass because of his previous success. I understand a couple years of rebuilding ... but three or four with not even an NIT, for a million dollars? Give me a break. What values did SLU go against by hiring him? The fact that he craps in a towel? Does he have a criminal background that I'm not aware of? Silly BillyBilly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_davola Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 -Willie's weakside blocks sure would have helped cover up other's mistakes. RL wouldn't have been expected to step in from day one and defend veteran big men.Couldn't agree more...another thing that didn't show up in the stat book are the shots that Willie altered just by being down in the paint going for the block. He may not have been the BEST defender in the world, but he's a good shot blocker and he does a good job of helping out and dropping off his man at the right time when one of our defenders gets smoked by Dayton's PGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 That "fragile medical condition" could be avoided by diet and exercise. NOT COURAGEOUS. This episode is the opposite of courageous. My first ever double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 That "fragile medical condition" could be avoided by diet and exercise. NOT COURAGEOUS. This episode is the opposite of courageous. RM swims, has tried hard, post heart bypass, he has lost weight. But he is clearly still obese. Talk to a cardiologist about RM's situation, with just knowing what we know, he will enlighten you. RM is in dange, any cut larger than pin prick sized. Do some reading. Genetics are ususally the issue. Obese people cannot fight it, eat a lot because they have to. Some can beat the odds. Has The A Bomb ever noticed a family, all thin, all heavy, or how one "takes after" his grandparent...and is similar in body type? And race / ethnicity comes into play, also. Ever seen a fat Kenyan? (I will not go any further in that direction). SUMMARY PARAGRAPH FROM A MEDICAL SOURCE: Obesity (and thinness) tends to run in families. In a study of adults who were adopted as children, researchers found that participating adult weights were closer to their biological parents' weights than their adoptive parents'. The environment provided by the adoptive family apparently had less influence on the development of obesity than the person's genetic makeup. In fact, if your biological mother is heavy as an adult, there is approximately a 75% chance that you will be heavy. If your biological mother is thin, there is also a 75% chance that you will be thin. That is just a statment about obese (20% overweight). There is a whole lot more hard clinical data, legitimate studies, on this subject, and the morbidly obese (50% overweight and / or 100 lbs overweight)... these people are in a very difficult predicament. (and, fyi, I am not obese, or on Coumadin, or anything like that, get that off the table, I am just piss*d that people are taking ignorant petty cheap shots at RM's health and misfortune) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBall Fan Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 True, but he recruited the players who have. I have to be honest here. I graduated from Kansas University in the late 90's and moved back to St. Louis in 2004. Nothing like a game at the Phog. I started going to SLU games in 2005 and became a pretty big fan. I have had season tickets since 2006 and make regular donations to the Billiken Club. I am not a lifer, but I read some of these posts and WOW!!!!! The RM bashers need to take a deep breath and be thankful that a coach of his calibur was even willing to come to SLU with the way things are handled at the University. Some posters like to throw the NIT tag out there. Really??? The NIT is not the goal. The NCAA tourney is the goal (if you want to be a top 50 program). Any of you that think Mr. Hughes would have been at SLU if his little brother were not ill have lost your mind. The only way SLU gets those caliber of players is through building a pyramid of success that takes years. What is the recruiting draw to come to St. Louis when you could go to a BCS School? The school/Athletic department can barely get games on regional TV and most of those are home games. The whole athletic program is run poorly. It is a major division I athletic program that demands no press coverage and 8th page lower corner you might find a box score. RM is getting 3 star recruits from all over. Success and exposure will bring better recruiting. RM is getting bigger tournaments and more opportunity in the future. Your previous coach is now at an NAIA school if that tells you anything about his abilities and the coach prior to him used SLU like a rented Mule to get another job. Yes, he recruited these players and I think most would agree that we have seen the potential in all of them. Coaches coach and players play. RM is not without fault this year but no RM and no CBS Duke game. Can someone please tell me the last time SLU played a nationally televised game on CBS (and not cbs cs)? 23 wins last year and a better team assembled prior to a bad decision this year. With KM and WR this team is 12-2 and you are all spewing about how RM is the savior and the best thing since sliced bread. Trying to figure out how you can help get boosters to raise his salary to 2mil so he doesn't go anywhere. Blame your school, not your coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You'll have to forgive those of us that think next year's team with WR and KM will be damn good for not trusting the talent evaluation skills of someone that just a few months ago claimed their loss would hurt us by 1-2 games. The same poster as little as three weeks ago also claimed Cassity could play in the NBA. Those that don't think we would be good with all of our guys should look at the statistics from last year. KM: 16 PPG, 3 RPG and 3 APG WR: 12.4 and 8 KC is averaging 10.1 PPG this season. That is what we are missing. We were a good, near NCAA quality team during the 2nd half of last season and that success was driven largely by WR and KM. The only two other players we are missing from last year's team are JJ and JS and their statistical impact was limited. KC and BC have improved from last year. CS, CE and CR have regressed and that is disapointing but I wouldn't write any of those sophomores off just yet. Just a week ago, Roy made the good point that often people don't realize how important something is to them until it is taken from them and said Willie seems to only now realize how important SLU is. Perhaps, some fans on this board should take that same advice and realize just how valuable WR and KM were to last year's success and will be to next year's success (if we are lucky to get WR reinstated). they you go lying and twisting again about what i said. i did not say cassity could play in the nba i said he had potential to develop to an nba player. but once again, your obsession to downplay anything i say by your lying stands out. what an a$$. never thought this day would come but kshoe now goes on ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 they you go lying and twisting again about what i said. i did not say cassity could play in the nba i said he had potential to develop to an nba player. but once again, your obsession to downplay anything i say by your lying stands out. what an a$$. never thought this day would come but kshoe now goes on ignore. Good. I wonder if this will last as long as your previous self-imposed bans from the board. don't worry though, I'll continue to respond to your posts when something needs to be refuted. Meanwhile, I'm going to spend the rest of my day scratching my head as I try to figure out the incredibly subtle differences between someone saying "potential to develop to an NBA player" and someone else saying "could play in the NBA." I can't imagine anybody that paraphrases the first statement into the second being called a liar, but so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 i do not disagree with the prevailing point by most about the effect of losing the two best players on the team unexpectedly. the same thing happened to soderberg when he lost frericks and bryant and the team ended up with a losing record. very few teams can take an unexpected shot like that and not miss a step. what i do think has been exposed though is the actual talent level of this roster. i admit i thought the roster was much stronger than it obviously is and expected with another year of maturation there would be at most a slight hiccup and the team would still have a positive record. didnt see any reason the team wouldnt win 18-19 games still. instead we have seen regression by a number of players. we have seen no one really step up to a leadership role and my opinion is that our talent level isnt much more than it has been on any roster since mr hughes left for the nba over a decade ago. and with that said, those of you that have labeled next year's expected roster "loaded" are way off base. we will be an injury or an incident or an academic casualty or an unexpected transfer from another 500 or less season. what seems to be most disappointing the last 3-4 weeks is a sharp downturn in the play and results of our current talent. something's not right. and to just continue blindly forward without asking questions is just blind faith. good for you all. you are truly great fans. Coming late to this thread but just wanted to echo a few comments. First, good thread and comments Taj. Agree with most of what you say. Second, Roy, I fully agree that we are really still a team of 2 to 3 players. Frankly, I was drinking the Kool-aid as well thinking this would be the year. My experience questioned how this could be our year when we lacked ANY Seniors but then I took another sip of Kool-aid and said, "but we have 4 good JRs who have been playing since they arrived", "our Sophs will all be 1 year better", "our incoming Frosh will add much needed depth..." At the same time, I do think our talent level is higher than during Soderberg years (w/o WR and KM) and significantly higher w/ WR and KM. Young teams are just not going to win games. With RM's next recruiting class and the return of KM (and possibly WR), we will no longer be a 2 or 3 player team though. Third, even with loss of WR and KM and even agreeing with the "loss of 2 best players/starters" theory (I've said in the past that the Cardinals team (not just their pitching staff) don't look very good if you take Wainright and Carpenter out for the year, we still have not had a shooter on this team since KL and this year's team would still have a glaring weakness at the 2 and 3 positions - same as last year. Not interested in responses giving me statistics of this year's team, last year's team, etc. These guys just cannot shoot it. Even last year (w/ KM and WR) we lost many a game b/c of the lack of shooting - especially from the 2 and 3. When CE started to fill this void and when KC had some good games, we looked much better. When KM missed the MO State game last year, we fell apart. W/o CE, we were mediocre. Yes, this year, CS and CR are not impressing me. Not just points and statistices but I don't glimpses of their play which cause me to say... if only they could do that the whole game. KC is what he -- when left open or forgotten about, he will make the other team pay. Otherwise, he is nothing more than a role player who is passing to other role players -- with no one wanting to shoot the ball. Fourth, we are assemblig a group of role players but where is the shooter? MM may have the shot (like KM) but they are the point guards, right? I don't see it in JJ, KC, CS - and PE does not even belong on the team much less start a home game against Dayton. We missed out on Matt Roth, I get it. We missed out on various JUCOs, I get it. We brought in a pure outside shooter in Reid last year, but w/ the injury, etc., he's gone, and again, I get it. But where is the shooting? Who is supposed to be our scorers? Most scorers play the 2 and/or the 3. I guess this RM's style of play as I do recall him saying that he wants the 1 and 4 as his best players on the floor. Will Barnett be our shooter next year? Fifth, Rob Loe is the real deal. He shows moments when he is awesome. The, again, he shows moments when he gets pushed around and very ordinary. That is what Freshmen do. I have no doubt that he will be very good for us. Same with MM. Sixth, some of the talent is definitely over-rated. Most of our talent also cannot shoot. Still, w/o any Seniors and with only our two (2) "lesser" JRs, I am not ready to declare RM's recruiting a failure. Have there been misses? Sure, see above. Have we hyped our young talent too much? Sure. Have we gotten more than our share of bad breaks - CE's NCAA saga, CE's mono/fireworks incident, The Situation, inability to get JUCOs in, change of mind by Josh Harrelson, Sean Kowall situation...? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Second, Roy, I fully agree that we are really still a team of 2 to 3 players. The thing is, in basketball, just about every team is built around 2 or 3 players. Good teams often have 2 or 3 "stars" and 4 or 5 solid role players and SLU obviously wasn't any different. This is true of college basketball and the NBA. In the college world, Mizzou is just about the only good team that comes to mind that has a "full team" concept with no real stars. In terms of the NBA, I can think of only 1 team over the past ten years that had any real success without the "2 or 3" star formula and that's Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The thing is, in basketball, just about every team is built around 2 or 3 players. Good teams often have 2 or 3 "stars" and 4 or 5 solid role players and SLU obviously wasn't any different. This is true of college basketball and the NBA. In the college world, Mizzou is just about the only good team that comes to mind that has a "full team" concept with no real stars. In terms of the NBA, I can think of only 1 team over the past ten years that had any real success without the "2 or 3" star formula and that's Detroit. San Antonio comes to mind as well. That team has been built around Duncan and one hell of a coach in Pop. People wouldn't have a clue who Tony Parker is if it wasn't for that once-again Desperate House(ex)wife of his. Save for '99 when they had Robinson and Duncan, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 San Antonio comes to mind as well. That team has been built around Duncan and one hell of a coach in Pop. People wouldn't have a clue who Tony Parker is if it wasn't for that once-again Desperate House(ex)wife of his. Save for '99 when they had Robinson and Duncan, I guess.Shot at Steve Kerr out of nowhere. He was a machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Meanwhile, I'm going to spend the rest of my day scratching my head as I try to figure out the incredibly subtle differences between someone saying "potential to develop to an NBA player" and someone else saying "could play in the NBA." I can't imagine anybody that paraphrases the first statement into the second being called a liar, but so be it. -if you are able to determine that difference can you please let us know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Shot at Steve Kerr out of nowhere. He was a machine. My bad, Westy. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 RM swims, has tried hard, post heart bypass, he has lost weight. But he is clearly still obese. Talk to a cardiologist about RM's situation, with just knowing what we know, he will enlighten you. RM is in dange, any cut larger than pin prick sized. Do some reading. Genetics are ususally the issue. Obese people cannot fight it, eat a lot because they have to. Some can beat the odds. Has The A Bomb ever noticed a family, all thin, all heavy, or how one "takes after" his grandparent...and is similar in body type? And race / ethnicity comes into play, also. Ever seen a fat Kenyan? (I will not go any further in that direction). SUMMARY PARAGRAPH FROM A MEDICAL SOURCE: Obesity (and thinness) tends to run in families. In a study of adults who were adopted as children, researchers found that participating adult weights were closer to their biological parents' weights than their adoptive parents'. The environment provided by the adoptive family apparently had less influence on the development of obesity than the person's genetic makeup. In fact, if your biological mother is heavy as an adult, there is approximately a 75% chance that you will be heavy. If your biological mother is thin, there is also a 75% chance that you will be thin. That is just a statment about obese (20% overweight). There is a whole lot more hard clinical data, legitimate studies, on this subject, and the morbidly obese (50% overweight and / or 100 lbs overweight)... these people are in a very difficult predicament. (and, fyi, I am not obese, or on Coumadin, or anything like that, get that off the table, I am just piss*d that people are taking ignorant petty cheap shots at RM's health and misfortune) Don't assume that other posters don't know anything. My Masters from SLU's school of Public Health would suggest otherwise. You can quote all the studies you want and I could quote just as many on the other side. Majerus' eating habits are well documented not just by anonymous posters but in his own admissions. I guess he just isn't responsible for that behavior. I'm not poking fun at his obesity. I just refuse to call him "courageous" and I question his dedication to coach this team. I don't know 100% that I am right that he isn't the victim of some freak infection that is so serious he must miss 3 weeks of sitting in a chair on the sideline. I have serious doubts. I have a very obese grandma on comaudin, diabetic, with an amputated leg who had an MRSA infection in what was left of her leg. I know that she could've sat in a chair on the sideline for 2 hours. I hope he pulls it together. I hope we make it to the Final 4 next year. I also hope that I see a change in this years team to show me that they are men that have some pride and are willing to do what it takes to compete in Division I Basketball. Right now I am not seeing that at all levels and there is plenty of blame to go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenbilly Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I do not disagree with the prevailing point by most about the effect of losing the two best players on the team unexpectedly. the same thing happened to soderberg when he lost frericks and bryant and the team ended up with a losing record. This post is misleading. Frericks played nearly half the season that year and Bryant played 24 games that year. Not the same as losing your 2 best players for the entire season. It is more akin to what happened last year when Cody only played half the season and when Willie got benched a few games. Majerus was still able to pull off 23 wins. Sodie didn't have 10 wins. "The same thing" did not happen to Sodie and he did not end up with a losing record because of losing his 2 best players. He was having a losing season and, in the process, his best player sat a few games and one of his other starters got hurt. Not the same as Majerus going into a season only to have his 2 best players pulled off the court for the season. You will do whatever you can to villify Majerus and to try to redeem Sodie, but at least be honest with the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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