View from Afar

[slufanskip]

I'm amazed how few people who are solid basketball fans have a clue.

RM was building a team, how could he have replaced KM and WR if he didn't know the results. What if he had recruited 2 juco's and they would have been suspended for 2 games? When did he find out JJ and JS were leaving? Do you think he can just start recruiting a couple of juco's that would have made a difference this year in April or May and land them? He didn't want JS to leave and I'm sure didn't expect him to. With him, KM, and WR we have a full roster. Even if he could have or should have guessed JS might leave do you really think we can recruit a difference making Juco beginning in April? Get real.

Add to KM and WR getting suspended, CE getting mono putting him way behind schedule.

The only knock I'd have is the MR situation. I think it's clear he misjudged Marcus and with him we'd be a little better right now. However, no one hits every time.

I love the fans who think they are better fans because they get mad when we lose and demand things get better. What's the point? The funny thing is most people demanding things have so little f..king clout that it's completely irrelevant what they want.

[SLUDrew]

Are we really comparing losing Frericks and Bryant to losing Willie and Kwamain? This is almost as laughable as Cassity being an NBA Player. Where was Frericks listed on NBAdraft.net? Bryant was a nice player but nowhere near as dynamic as Mitchell. By the way, Bryant and Frericks were seniors. Mitchell and Reed were sophomores the last time we saw them on the floor. One could easily assume they will only get better.

All you are doing is showing how wide the gap is between the players Sodie brought in and the players Majerus is bringing in.

[3Jack]

I'm amazed how few people who are solid basketball fans have a clue.

RM was building a team, how could he have replaced KM and WR if he didn't know the results. What if he had recruited 2 juco's and they would have been suspended for 2 games? When did he find out JJ and JS were leaving? Do you think he can just start recruiting a couple of juco's that would have made a difference this year in April or May and land them? He didn't want JS to leave and I'm sure didn't expect him to. With him, KM, and WR we have a full roster. Even if he could have or should have guessed JS might leave do you really think we can recruit a difference making Juco beginning in April? Get real.

Add to KM and WR getting suspended, CE getting mono putting him way behind schedule.

The only knock I'd have is the MR situation. I think it's clear he misjudged Marcus and with him we'd be a little better right now. However, no one hits every time.

I love the fans who think they are better fans because they get mad when we lose and demand things get better. What's the point? The funny thing is most people demanding things have so little f..king clout that it's completely irrelevant what they want.

Mitchell and Reed could have not been suspended and could have gotten hurt. Or been an academic suspension. Stuff happens Skip. You have to develop a roster that can deal with that. Majerus has had almost 4 years to develop a roster of players. Of course the team is not going to be as good without those guys. But 5-9 and heading toward a 10 win season? No way that should happen at this point in his tenure. Anyone who thinks this team would be an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell is high. No way.

[slufanskip]

Mitchell and Reed could have not been suspended and could have gotten hurt. Or been an academic suspension. Stuff happens Skip. You have to develop a roster that can deal with that. Majerus has had almost 4 years to develop a roster of players. Of course the team is not going to be as good without those guys. But 5-9 and heading toward a 10 win season? No way that should happen at this point in his tenure. Anyone who thinks this team would be an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell is high. No way.

You're right, they could have gotten hurt and if they had the team would not be good. Remember the KM,WR class was RM's first real class. They were going to be Jr's which leaves him with 1 other class of sophs (who we can both probably agree have not played well this year) and 1 class of freshman. So how would he have effectively built up that kind of roster to this point. It's unrealistic to expect him with just 2 real classes of players with any d1 experience to have built up the kind of roster that could withstand losing players like we did. You keep comparing apples to oranges to make a point and it doesn't work. Had they lost their 2 best players 3 years from now it might be different. I wouldn't expect them to remain a tourney team, but I wouldn't expect such a drastic change either.

Next, why do you only show up on the board when things are bad?

[SLUDrew]

Mitchell and Reed could have not been suspended and could have gotten hurt. Or been an academic suspension. Stuff happens Skip. You have to develop a roster that can deal with that. Majerus has had almost 4 years to develop a roster of players. Of course the team is not going to be as good without those guys. But 5-9 and heading toward a 10 win season? No way that should happen at this point in his tenure. Anyone who thinks this team would be an NCAA tournament team with Reed and Mitchell is high. No way.

3Jack, there are examples a'plenty from high school teams all the way up to the elite teams in the NBA that consist of a couple star players and players that fall in around them to fill a role.

Do you really not see how a tandem of Loe and Reed could be near impossible to defend? Do you not think Kwamain's driving and dishing ability would set up Ellis and Loe in a way that cannot happen right now? Do you not think we would be much better in crunch time, have far fewer turnovers, have far more rebounds, be INFINITELY better defensively, etc?

I gave an example of Kansas State earlier. They were a very popular pick to reach the final four before the season started. Pullen and Kelley got suspended and they mometarily became very ordinary.

I honestly feel that we would have two or maybe three losses at this point with Willie and Kwamain and with our SOS that, and given that the A-10 is wide open this year, I very much believe we would have made the tournament. You say I'm high for thinking so. I think you're high for thinking a non BCS team can just keep on keeping on when they lose two players of Mitchell's and Reed's ilk.

[dlarry]

3Jack, there are examples a'plenty from high school teams all the way up to the elite teams in the NBA that consist of a couple star players and players that fall in around them to fill a role.

Do you really not see how a tandem of Loe and Reed could be near impossible to defend? Do you not think Kwamain's driving and dishing ability would set up Ellis and Loe in a way that cannot happen right now? Do you not think we would be much better in crunch time, have far fewer turnovers, have far more rebounds, be INFINITELY better defensively, etc?

I gave an example of Kansas State earlier. They were a very popular pick to reach the final four before the season started. Pullen and Kelley got suspended and they mometarily became very ordinary.

I honestly feel that we would have two or maybe three losses at this point with Willie and Kwamain and with our SOS that, and given that the A-10 is wide open this year, I very much believe we would have made the tournament. You say I'm high for thinking so. I think you're high for thinking a non BCS team can just keep on keeping on when they lose two players of Mitchell's and Reed's ilk.

I think of it as if the Utah Jazz would of lost Stockton and Malone.

They would of won some games but would of never made the finals and would of struggled to get into the playoffs.

WR and KM are in no way comparable players but their importance to the team in about equal.

[3Jack]

Drew, K State lost one game to a good UNLV game. They hardly fell apart. They are still 12-3 and ranked #17. They could have lost to UNLV with Pullen.

[SLUDrew]

They lost to UNLV at home, the ONLY game Pullen and Kelley were suspended for. Point being, if a BCS team can come back to earth when two players are missing, certainly a non-BCS team can. You do realize that 2 of 5 is 40% right? Take away 40% of the starting lineup for any team in any sport and see what happens.

[3Jack]

They lost to UNLV at home, the ONLY game Pullen and Kelley were suspended for. Point being, if a BCS team can come back to earth when two players are missing, certainly a non-BCS team can. You do realize that 2 of 5 is 40% right? Take away 40% of the starting lineup for any team in any sport and see what happens.

It wasn't at home and it wasn't the only game those guys were out for. Get your facts straight Drew. SLU hasn't come back down to earth it has crashed and burned. Of course a team isn't going to be as good. But 5-9 and losing to Bowling freaking Green at home. Come on. Something tells me you would be roasting Soderburg under similar circumstances.

[SLUDrew]

You are right; they lost to UNLV on a neutral floor and then proceeded to beat such vaunted programs as UMKC and North Florida without Pullen and Kelley. By the way, no way they lose to UNLV with those two on the floor, but I digress.

You are right that I roasted Soderberg especially towards the end of his tenure. I think he was the victim of the Peter Principle. This job was too much for him. I could not have gotten on him if he struggled after losing two players of Kwamain's and Willie's ilk because he never had two players of their ilk to lose.

[billiken_roy]

I could not have gotten on him if he struggled after losing two players of Kwamain's and Willie's ilk because he never had two players of their ilk to lose.

you are right about that, and i also would add soderberg would never had had two players of their "ilk". however i think your "ilk" and my "ilk" are two entirely different subjects.

[eastsidejoe]

you are right about that, and i also would add soderberg would never had had two players of their "ilk". however i think your "ilk" and my "ilk" are two entirely different subjects.

You don't know that, you are full of cr**. Why don't you make things up Mr. perfect. You think that Sodie knew what he was getting with every player he recruited except for an average basketball player.

[Pistol]

You don't know that, you are full of cr**. Why don't you make things up Mr. perfect. You think that Sodie knew what he was getting with every player he recruited except for an average basketball player.

Yeah, Roy, there are plenty of stories about players in the Soderberg era that would go toe-to-toe with this incident. Same with the players that played under previous coaches...and many others from the general student body. Soderberg didn't have only Cub Scouts playing for him.

[billiken_roy]

You don't know that, you are full of cr**. Why don't you make things up Mr. perfect. You think that Sodie knew what he was getting with every player he recruited except for an average basketball player.

actually you are right and i apologize to drew. soderberg is the one that recruited reed, so obviously i was wrong with my knee jerk reaction above. again i apologize.

[billikenbilly]

you are right about that, and i also would add soderberg would never had had two players of their "ilk". however i think your "ilk" and my "ilk" are two entirely different subjects.

another attempted jab at majerus and attempt to elevate soderberg to god status. i think what you are implying (as you have in the past) is that RM is at fault for recruiting what you think are poor character players. in doing so, you ignore the fact sodie was after willie and would have signed him if he had the chance. he would have had no clue who KM was because he didn't recruit anyone from outside the area who was actually worth a salt. but if KM had wanted to sign with sodie, he would have taken him. you also ignore horace dixon, obi ikeakor, and others.

you take these jabs and then you never respond when anyone calls you out.

[slufanskip]

RM has had 4 classes.

Class 1, this years Sr.'s. - I think we agree was a filler. The only thing he could have done differently is possibly Marcus R. I for one think Marcus was a 2-3 not a 4 and we should have kept him. In fact I believe had we kept him and played him as a 3, we'd have made the tourney last year. Imo, this was a RM mistake.

Class 2, this years Jr's. - This class was poised to be very strong with KM and WR plus Kyle and Brian.

Class 3, this years Sophs - Imo this class has under achieved. I think we all though CS would shoot the ball better and with the defender he's become if he could hit 33% from the 3, he'd be a decent ball player. I'm willing to give CE a breal due to the mono, but as the year progresses I expect to see him shooting better. Cory is imo a back up center and with Willie on board it's what he should be. I'm satisfied with him as a very young soph.

Class 4, this years freshman. - I won't even comment yet.

My point is except for CE shooting better, (and his illness I'm pretty sure was out of RM's control) the lack of development of CS, and misjudging MR ... RM doesn't have many misses on the roster. We couldn't really have recruited Juco's as we thought we'd have JS, WR, and KM which would give us a full roster. Even if you say he should have been prepared in case JS left, do you really expect he should have been able to land a difference making Juco starting in April?

It seems to me that to expect a roster this young and a coach with just 3 real recruiting classes to be able to withstand the losses of players the ilk of KM and WR plus the fact that their expected 3rd leading scorer spent the summer with mono is just unrealistic.

[billiken_roy]

another attempted jab at majerus and attempt to elevate soderberg to god status. i think what you are implying (as you have in the past) is that RM is at fault for recruiting what you think are poor character players. in doing so, you ignore the fact sodie was after willie and would have signed him if he had the chance. he would have had no clue who KM was because he didn't recruit anyone from outside the area who was actually worth a salt. but if KM had wanted to sign with sodie, he would have taken him. you also ignore horace dixon, obi ikeakor, and others.

you take these jabs and then you never respond when anyone calls you out.

see above. i indeed did apologize and admit i made a knee jerk reaction.

[Tonka]

Guys, there is a strong chance that RM was forced to step away right now because of his doctors. He was hurt on the job and if he didn't listen to the doctors, there may be some liability involved. An infection with a guy with his health concerns is nothing to joke about. Him having bad health in the first place is a whole different story. The fact is that he is in poor health, on medication, and now fighting an infection.

I am certainly not thrilled with RM by any means, but his health right now is not something to take lightly and his doctors may be dictating things.

I posted after the game that I still can't see how he got the cut.

Maybe PE put a blade in his shoe to compete like the goon in Roadhouse when he went to cause trouble at the Double Deuce. If that was the case, I lost faith in Porter as the "Cooler". He should have pointed to PE and told RM - "Right Shoe" and Majerus would have responded "Got it" and avoided getting kicked on the sideline. <This is where someone inserts the fight scene from Roadhouse>

[3Jack]

You are right; they lost to UNLV on a neutral floor and then proceeded to beat such vaunted programs as UMKC and North Florida without Pullen and Kelley. By the way, no way they lose to UNLV with those two on the floor, but I digress.3.0

You are right that I roasted Soderberg especially towards the end of his tenure. I think he was the victim of the Peter Principle. This job was too much for him. I could not have gotten on him if he struggled after losing two players of Kwamain's and Willie's ilk because he never had two players of their ilk to lose.

Lisch as a sophmore - 14.9 pts 3.6 rbs 3.5 asts

Mitchell as a sophmore - 15.9 pts 3.0 rbs 3.0 asts

Liddell as a sophmore - 15.4 pts 6.8 rbs 2.7 asts

Reed as a sophmore - 12.4 pts 7.9 rbs .8 asts

Lisch and Liddell are in the ball park with Mitchell and Reed as sophmores.

[BBall Fan]

I'm amazed how few people who are solid basketball fans have a clue.

RM was building a team, how could he have replaced KM and WR if he didn't know the results. What if he had recruited 2 juco's and they would have been suspended for 2 games? When did he find out JJ and JS were leaving? Do you think he can just start recruiting a couple of juco's that would have made a difference this year in April or May and land them? He didn't want JS to leave and I'm sure didn't expect him to. With him, KM, and WR we have a full roster. Even if he could have or should have guessed JS might leave do you really think we can recruit a difference making Juco beginning in April? Get real.

Add to KM and WR getting suspended, CE getting mono putting him way behind schedule.

The only knock I'd have is the MR situation. I think it's clear he misjudged Marcus and with him we'd be a little better right now. However, no one hits every time.

I love the fans who think they are better fans because they get mad when we lose and demand things get better. What's the point? The funny thing is most people demanding things have so little f..king clout that it's completely irrelevant what they want.

Right on skip. I would add that JS would have probably suffered the same fate as KM and WR and we would have probably been playing with 9 scholarship players. I just do not understand some of the personal attacks on RM by some of the posters. Just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[BBall Fan]

Lisch as a sophmore - 14.9 pts 3.6 rbs 3.5 asts

Mitchell as a sophmore - 15.9 pts 3.0 rbs 3.0 asts

Liddell as a sophmore - 10.3 pts 6.9 rbs 2.7 asts

Reed as a sophmore - 12.4 pts 7.9 rbs .8 asts

Lisch and Liddell are in the ball park with Mitchell and Reed as sophmores.

Apples to Oranges

[3Jack]

Apples to Oranges

I actually shortchanged Liddell in that comparison. There really is no comparison Lisch and Liddell were a better combo after 2 years. SLU Drew is getting beaten like a rented mule in this thread.

[slufanskip]

Lisch as a sophmore - 14.9 pts 3.6 rbs 3.5 asts

Mitchell as a sophmore - 15.9 pts 3.0 rbs 3.0 asts

Liddell as a sophmore - 15.4 pts 6.8 rbs 2.7 asts

Reed as a sophmore - 12.4 pts 7.9 rbs .8 asts

Lisch and Liddell are in the ball park with Mitchell and Reed as sophmores.

and lets take them off the roster as Jr's.

We have

Sr.'s - Luke Meyer, Danny Brown, Dwayne Polk, Bryce Husak

Jr. - Barry Eberhardt

Soph - Adam Knollmeyer

Fr. - Paul Eckerle, Anthony Mitchell, Marcus Relphorde

and this is with UB having 5 years under his belt. Looks pretty good. I wonder how they'd do this year? I know I'd take this years roster for the future.

[3Jack]

and lets take them off the roster as Jr's.

We have

Sr.'s - Luke Meyer, Danny Brown, Dwayne Polk, Bryce Husak

Jr. - Barry Eberhardt

Soph - Adam Knollmeyer

Fr. - Paul Eckerle, Anthony Mitchell, Marcus Relphorde

and this is with UB having 5 years under his belt. Looks pretty good. I wonder how they'd do this year? I know I'd take this years roster for the future.

N/M

[jimbofive]

and lets take them off the roster as Jr's.

We have

Sr.'s - Luke Meyer, Danny Brown, Dwayne Polk, Bryce Husak

Jr. - Barry Eberhardt

Soph - Adam Knollmeyer

Fr. - Paul Eckerle, Anthony Mitchell, Marcus Relphorde

and this is with UB having 5 years under his belt. Looks pretty good. I wonder how they'd do this year? I know I'd take this years roster for the future.

that team shot 72% from FT that year. last year's team shot 62%. so that sucks.