billiken_roy Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 but his family chose to accept it, even after having known RM for a year. So it was a good thing, do you thing they voluntarily accepted wht they felt was a bad thing for Daniel? this is totally my opinion. i think they had unreal expectations of possible outcomes. i totally agree they were not misled in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 daniel had and has full scholarship opportunities. slu wasnt his only scholarship offer. so the family money savings does not enter into the picture from my understanding. i also believe that clock is probably correct in stating that the opportunity to go to college with his brother and sister one year was a big factor. i am still a huge billiken fan. i just dont see why our players have to be treated as such to be a successful program. Daniel was not going to receive a free ride at Fontbonne. Part of his aid package will be student loans that will have had to be repaid (it might not be a lot, but it will be part of his package). He is not geting a free ride a Fontbonne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkelsey55 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 billiken_roy back on my ignore list. can't stand to hear a "grown" man cry so much about things that are none of his business. It was a decission for the Lisch Family and they made it. Daniel got to spend a year at college with his brother and sister at no cost due to the scholarship. Both of them are no longer at SLU and Daniel is free to go to school where ever he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 It was sure nice to read a rather sane recap from Billikan. I am 110% behind Coach Majerus to date. Has he opened his pie hole and said things that maybe the average Joe might not say...probably. However, he has amassed a pretty interesting array of athletes. Frankly, I want to see how this plays out over the next couple years. Now if we are still without any NCAA appearances after that time period then it is time to decide if Coach Majerus is the man for the job. Right now, this Billiken fan will not lose any sleep over the couple Majerus recruits we did lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Maybe I missed something, doubtful as I read every post on this board everyday, but at no time during the season or before the season during practice or immediately following the season did I ever hear about Daniel Lisch being mistreated. Why is this coming out now? If this was such a big deal why was it never mentioned? There was a general rule at SEMO when I attended there, walk ons on the football team and basketball team were verbal punching bags for coaches. Part of their job, part of the deal. I assumed this went on everywhere. Maybe it doesn't. I don't want it to seem like I'm defending Majerus at every turn but think about this for a minute if what Roy is saying is true. Daniel was rewarded a scholarship over Majerus' head. That in itself would make me angry. If Majerus wanted to give him one fine, or if he tried out for the team, was the best walk on and there was a scholarship available fine Majerus can give it to him. But if he was rewarded a scholarship based on his family's legacy at SLU, while great, and not on his basketball playing skills Majerus has every right to be angry at the Daniel, at the Lisch's and at SLU in general. For me personally If was forced to reward a scholarship to a player that I felt did not deserve one over other candidates and was HC at a D-1 school I would seriously consider resigning. If we made Majerus give one for Lisch hell doesn't Ed Macauley have a grand daughter? She could probably use a basketball scholarship. It was my understanding always that Daniel chose to do this for one year to play with his brother and to compete against D-1 athletes for a year and better his basketball skills. Majerus always made the stipulation that this was a 1 year deal. Maybe the Lisch's thought that if Daniel played well enough he would get a permanent scholarship. Isn't that the dream of every walk on? He didn't so his scholarship is now up. Don't forget as well. Majerus makes a point to say that ALL scholarships are renewable on a yearly basis. Not just the one for Daniel Lisch or Paul Eckerle, everyone's. He could yank any of them at any time and it wouldn't shock me to see him do it one of these years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 this is totally my opinion. i think they had unreal expectations of possible outcomes. i totally agree they were not misled in any way. The "unreal expectations" are that Rusty thought Daniel was a better player than he really was. There's a reason that Daniel was recruited by Division 3 schools and not Division I schools. The kid showed promise when he was younger, but never developed into the player that people thought he could become. I sat next to some college coaches and NBA scouts at the Shootout when he was a freshman and they were intrigued by his skills then, but he didn't show much after that. I've said this before, but he was selected to the all-conference third team in high school by the league's coaches. So basically the coaches who played against him, who you would think would value a kid who is unselfish and willing to play defense, decided that Daniel was between the 15th and 20th best player in the Southwestern Conference when he was a senior. I'm not writing this to bash the kid, who is probably a nice kid and good student/teammate/etc, but to point out the expectations on this whole deal were extremely unrealistic. There are a lot of unrealistic expectations out there with high school and college athletes and their families. Years ago I listened to a high school player's sister tell me he was going to the league and all this (the kid couldn't qualify academically for Division I and after playing JUCO ended up at a D-2 school). It also wasn't long ago that certain media members were proclaiming Liddell and K. Lisch as one of the best backcourts in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 this is totally my opinion. i think they had unreal expectations of possible outcomes. i totally agree they were not misled in any way. exactly. And before those unreal expectations RM was rude crude and vulgar, but still an guy they wanted their second kid to play for. But after it became obvious that their expectations were unreal and would not be met, the same exact RM became a coach who was so bad that the Lisch's now seem to hold a grudge. I contend it was their unreal expectations that have led to thier issues not RM. I seriously doubt he was any different last year then he was the year before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I seriously doubt he was any different last year then he was the year before. where did i say he was different or had changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 where did i say he was different or had changed? so then where does the Lisch family disstisfaction come from. If they got to know RM for an entire year before submitting Daniel to him and he didn't change from the RM they knew? How come they are unhappy. Could the answer be ... because Daniel Lisch wasn't as good as they thought he was, not because RM trated him or the Lisch family so different? They had to know how he would treat Daniel, his reputation preceded him and they had a year in advance to live it with Kevin. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe SLU would have been better off had the Lisch family chosen another school. Seriously, in the end Kevin wasn't able to elevate his team to anything above mediocrity and now they are unhappy with SLU. The Lisch's are like people I knew who joined the service and then wanted out in basic training because it was too rough. Or put their hand into a fire and got mad because it got burned. You knew you freaking idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 poor analogy (in spite of wonderful movie images such as White Christmas and "Holiday Inn" ole Bing was reputed to be a hellacious father and one who handed out corporal punishment that would equal the child rearing of Joan Crawford i.e. "mommy dearest" The fact that BT is going to go play in his father's backyard may tell us we were lucky that Willie Reed rode into town to highlight many of our games; those of you with the "Great White Hope" thing going on should look to Cody Ellis I'd heard Bing in real life was a taskmaster with his kids, my reference to him was that Boys Town movie.... he struck me as being pretty kindly in that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 so then where does the Lisch family disstisfaction come from. If they got to know RM for an entire year before submitting Daniel to him and he didn't change from the RM they knew? How come they are unhappy. i am not saying they are unhappy. i am saying i am unhappy. unhappy our coach thinks he has to treat his players in the manner he does. what the lisch's, or the thompsons or the liddells, or the relephorde's or any player's family think is their business. if they do or do not accept rickma's "methods" doesnt mean i have to agree with them. i dont agree with his interpersonal skills and anyone that would consistently act that way wouldnt be thought well of from me it isnt just because it is the lisch's. it could be any player, manager, slu employee, that was treated that way and i would be upset about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 i am not saying they are unhappy. i am saying i am unhappy. unhappy our coach thinks he has to treat his players in the manner he does. what the lisch's, or the thompsons or the liddells, or the relephorde's or any player's family think is their business. if they do or do not accept rickma's "methods" doesnt mean i have to agree with them. i dont agree with his interpersonal skills and anyone that would consistently act that way wouldnt be thought well of from me it isnt just because it is the lisch's. it could be any player, manager, slu employee, that was treated that way and i would be upset about it. Seriously roy, if Daniel Lisch didn't know what to expect than I don't know what to think. Did his own family lie to him about RM? BTW, you never answered my question. Hasn't RM really only lost 2 of his recruits that were expected to stay 4 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumn1 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 You all can knock Roy all you want. It won't change what Majerus is. I can tell you from being on the inside that he is a horses a$$ period. He treats the players like $hit. Kevin and Tommie would have blown out this year if it would not have been their last year. I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. I know there are those inside the SLU basketball organization that believe that bringing the kids here from Australia is a travesty. They have never had to deal with someone like RM. I can't begin to imagine how they are going to come 3000 miles from home and stomach it. Before you say it, let me address it. Yes all recruits can read about RM and know what to expect. They can read about him yes, but you can't understand it until you live it. I will cover all bets if anyone really believes the Aussies will make it 4 years at SLU if RM is there 4 more years. Won't happen and by the end of next year I would bet you can add 3-5 more transfers out. RM knows basketball no doubt. RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 You all can knock Roy all you want. It won't change what Majerus is. I can tell you from being on the inside that he is a horses a$$ period. He treats the players like $hit. Kevin and Tommie would have blown out this year if it would not have been their last year. I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. I know there are those inside the SLU basketball organization that believe that bringing the kids here from Australia is a travesty. They have never had to deal with someone like RM. I can't begin to imagine how they are going to come 3000 miles from home and stomach it. Before you say it, let me address it. Yes all recruits can read about RM and know what to expect. They can read about him yes, but you can't understand it until you live it. I will cover all bets if anyone really believes the Aussies will make it 4 years at SLU if RM is there 4 more years. Won't happen and by the end of next year I would bet you can add 3-5 more transfers out. RM knows basketball no doubt. RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Slumn 1, if indeed the above is the real inside dope then the RM experiment is destined to be a failure. No program can stand a revolving door of players and expect to be successful. But I can't believe someone, most likely Fr. Larry, wouldn't bring him in for a serious sit down and tell him to temper his behavior. RM may be able to intimidate others but I don't see him doing it with Fr. B. By stating "someone we are counting on will transfer out this year" you're suggesting it could be one of our top frosh from last year, ie BC, KM, or WR. That would be a huge blow to the program's future. As stated in an earlier post, I too have concerns about how the Aussie kids will relate to RM's style. Where there's smoke there's usually fire. And if you know it, am sure other's with more say in the program's future know it as well and will take action to put it out now rather than see it become a full fledged inferno. SLU's invested too much in the program the last two years to have one man's ego bring it crumbling down around them. I'd like to hear what Billikan has to say about your post, as up until now, he seems to be our best source of inside info. And while he may not agree with RM's tactics, he's still supportive of him and sees a light at the end of the tunnel. What you're suggesting is that light is another train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Slumn 1, if indeed the above is the real inside dope then the RM experiment is destined to be a failure. No program can stand a revolving door of players and expect to be successful. But I can't believe someone, most likely Fr. Larry, wouldn't bring him in for a serious sit down and tell him to temper his behavior. RM may be able to intimidate others but I don't see him doing it with Fr. B. By stating "someone we are counting on will transfer out this year" you're suggesting it could be one of our top frosh from last year, ie BC, KM, or WR. That would be a huge blow to the program's future. As stated in an earlier post, I too have concerns about how the Aussie kids will relate to RM's style. Where there's smoke there's usually fire. And if you know it, am sure other's with more say in the program's future know it as well and will take action to put it out now rather than see it become a full fledged inferno. SLU's invested too much in the program the last two years to have one man's ego bring it crumbling down around them. I'd like to hear what Billikan has to say about your post, as up until now, he seems to be our best source of inside info. And while he may not agree with RM's tactics, he's still supportive of him and sees a light at the end of the tunnel. What you're suggesting is that light is another train. I have wondered when BT would get fed up with the personal nature of the public comments about him by HCRM. I don't think I have commented recently on "The Mouth," but he really can be rude and insensitive to the feelings of others. At BEST his comments about BT at the post-season banquet, with parents and boosters present, were demeaning and totally inappropriate in that setting. It's one thing to be rude, crude and insensitive in a CLOSED practice environment. However, talking about a 19 year old kid at a public event in that manner is quite a bit different. If that's the only method RM employs to motivate young men, then he is indeed a sorry case. I've got to say, "The Mouth" just doesn't seem to be attached to a brain with any judgment-----basketball knowledge, yes; judgment, no. For those of you who find it ok for RM to rag on his players get used to big roster turnovers every year. I have read that his conduct should be excused since this is big-time college athletics and all coaches talk to their players this way. It seems that someone even mentioned Brad S. in this context. Well, I was not the biggest BS supporter on this Board, in fact if you go back to the RM hiring timeframe I think you'll note that I was really pumped about moving from BS to RM. I do, however, feel the need to counter the"every big-time HC talks to his players this way" argument in relation to Brad. During the LR and BS years, I attended practice about 3-4 times a month. I know that the coaches knew visitors were present, and that fact may well have affected their conduct, however I never heard one word spoken by either of those coaches, which could have been described as degrading or demeaning on a personal level. Did they get mad and yell at times? Yes, but always based on a basketball issue, not something personal. I also attended a couple of 'Spoon practices and observed the same behavior from him. Whenever CS felt the need to criticize a player or group of players he had that unique ability to do so in a manner that even the player(s) would laugh---never anything approaching the insensitivity of RM's public comments, let alone what he might be saying during practice. It seems like many on this Board are tolerating this behavior hoping that it will lead us to the promise land (NCAA tourney). If you fall into that category, ask yourself if you would be anywhere near as forgiving if our coach's name was not associated with winning basketball programs in the recent past. If we were discussing Porter Moser, just as an example, do you really believe you would be taking the same position? I don't think you actually believe that to be the case. Finally, with regard to the hint that another player we were counting on next year will be leaving the Program, I look for that player to be Brian C. (No inside information here, just a gut feeling-he's a long way from home) Hope I'm wrong and they all return, because to lose 3 of 7 recruits after less than one year would be a very disturbing indication of a Program in some degree of trouble. I, like some of you, see no way that CS and CE take this abuse for 4 years, 3000? miles from home. A positive coming from all this negative, it appears that PE will be able to keep his scholarship for 4 years since we will continue to turn over players at a faster than normal rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Finally, with regard to the hint that another player we were counting on next year will be leaving the Program, I look for that player to be Brian C. (No inside information here, just a gut feeling-he's a long way from home) Hope I'm wrong and they all return, because to lose 3 of 7 recruits after less than one year would be a very disturbing indication of a Program in some degree of trouble. I, like some of you, see no way that CS and CE take this abuse for 4 years, 3000? miles from home. A positive coming from all this negative, it appears that PE will be able to keep his scholarship for 4 years since we will continue to turn over players at a faster than normal rate. I share your sentiments Bauman about the public berating of an individual... I don't think this is the norm for even the most successful coaches at any level. This year I felt as though RM was going out of his way to publicly support his players and lay off what he perceived their shortcomings to be. At least in public. But in the event another of his first 7 recruits exits as Slumn 1 suggests then indeed we have a problem that must be dealt with. So far, I think most of us here are willing to give him time and say he's not everyone's cup of tea. We think Cotto's departure was due to his overinflated ego, and Thompson's due to maybe being a little too thin skinned. But as Trey pointed out, BT apparently was taking a lot of abuse and receiving no praise. Even the most thick skinned person would get down if the shots were never ending. No doubt, RM's proving to be an enigma wrapped in an enigma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryB Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Yep, that must be it...couldn't possibly be any other explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Yep, that must be it...couldn't possibly be any other explanation. If someone else does leave the program before the start of the season I think it would be a direct result of the Senior's feelings last year. KL, TL, and BE were very influential to the team last year and I can imagine TL saying to the youngins "This sucks, college basketball used to be fun, Coach treats us like crap...if I were you I would transfer and go find a coach you can be praised by all the time". However, if everyone is on the same page, which I believe they will be next year, they will rise up and conquer without the detractions of Cotto being a prima donna or TL not trying for the last 5-8 games of the season. These events are cancers and everyone needs to just shut up and play. No one on our team is a Lebron James, no one can carry the team by themselves. I believe KM is a winner and will find a way to win and lead the team. As to giving RM a pass...for now I still do. He has the history of success, and he has 2 years from me to right the ship. It is hard to shake our culture of mediocrity. I will gauge progress as we go along but I know that when Jon Smith dunks on Xavier or CE hits a step back three in someone's face at the end of the half, BT and RC will be long forgotten. I do not understand why our players think it is in their best interest to transfer, what do they think they will do? play in JUCO and then go to BCS conference? By sitting out a year and then learning a new system...a player at best has a possibility for 1.5 years of real impact on a team that is most likely less formidable than SLU. Everyone needs to quit crying and play...and posters need to quit crying as well (I will not mention any names...) -Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. From bad to worse if this is true. I'm fearing it's either WR or KM. On the flip side, RM praised WR and KM a lot. BC? KC? Hoping it's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. This just comes across to me as a post that somebody makes so they can say you heard it from me first. If it doesn't happen then they can just come up with a lame excuse like he decided to tough it out one year, but trust me it was really, really, really close to happening. If you know it name names. If the kid is leaving it won't have any effect on him. The personal attacks on Rickma are getting a little old. Especially the ones from inside our joke of an athletic department. Try to remember the Billiken Club membership fee before you try to undermine the basketball coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillikenReport Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 This just comes across to me as a post that somebody makes so they can say you heard it from me first. If it doesn't happen then they can just come up with a lame excuse like he decided to tough it out one year, but trust me it was really, really, really close to happening. If you know it name names. If the kid is leaving it won't have any effect on him. The personal attacks on Rickma are getting a little old. Especially the ones from inside our joke of an athletic department. Try to remember the Billiken Club membership fee before you try to undermine the basketball coach. I've talked to a couple of the players recently and I don't think any of them are planning on leaving. If you look at the two players who left this season, you can attribute both in part to the lack of playing time. Cotto wanted more minutes and became unhappy at his situation. Thompson was a starter for some games and didn't get off the bench for other games. With RM talking about going with three guards and two forwards, maybe the only true center on the roster didn't feel like he fit in. If both guys were playing a lot more than they did, I doubt you would have seen them decide to transfer. Is that Rick's fault? We'll be having the same conversation a year from now when one of the incoming freshmen opts to transfer because he's not playing as much as he thought or because someone says Majerus is too hard on him. That is college basketball. You can only play five guys at a time and all 13-plus players on the roster think they should be playing more. The guys who stay on will probably be successful and become better players. The guys who leave might find a better situation or school or more success or might just never find what they are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I've talked to a couple of the players recently and I don't think any of them are planning on leaving. If you look at the two players who left this season, you can attribute both in part to the lack of playing time. Cotto wanted more minutes and became unhappy at his situation. Thompson was a starter for some games and didn't get off the bench for other games. With RM talking about going with three guards and two forwards, maybe the only true center on the roster didn't feel like he fit in. If both guys were playing a lot more than they did, I doubt you would have seen them decide to transfer. Is that Rick's fault? We'll be having the same conversation a year from now when one of the incoming freshmen opts to transfer because he's not playing as much as he thought or because someone says Majerus is too hard on him. That is college basketball. You can only play five guys at a time and all 13-plus players on the roster think they should be playing more. The guys who stay on will probably be successful and become better players. The guys who leave might find a better situation or school or more success or might just never find what they are looking for. There are only five guys it could be (Mitchell, Cassity, Femi, Conklin, or Reed). The post implies the player has already made a decision, so if that is the case I see no reason why the poster would dance around the name of the player and not just come out and say it. There is no need for this garbage on the board if this is not true. It is summer and if one of these guys it is not around I am sure it will not take long for that information to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 There are only five guy it could be (Mitchell, Cassity, Femi, Conklin, or Reed). The post implies the player has already made a decision, so if that is the case I see no reason why the poster would dance around the name of the player and not just come out and say it. There is no need for this garbage on the board if this is not true. It is summer and if one of these guys it is not around I am sure it will not take long for that information to come out. I think it's all smoke. I haven't heard anything and if someone is going to leave they better get going. If they wait any longer it would be almost as dumb as RC leaving 7 games into a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Slum. You have no inside information yet again. Not too long ago, I recall a predition you made when you stated that RM would never be our head coach. Now this.... What I find most interesting in your post is your comment: "you all are counting on..." Obviously, you are no Billiken fan, you have no inside info, so get lost and before you get our Board all riled up inventing theories of who might not be coming back. You all can knock Roy all you want. It won't change what Majerus is. I can tell you from being on the inside that he is a horses a$$ period. He treats the players like $hit. Kevin and Tommie would have blown out this year if it would not have been their last year. I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. I know there are those inside the SLU basketball organization that believe that bringing the kids here from Australia is a travesty. They have never had to deal with someone like RM. I can't begin to imagine how they are going to come 3000 miles from home and stomach it. Before you say it, let me address it. Yes all recruits can read about RM and know what to expect. They can read about him yes, but you can't understand it until you live it. I will cover all bets if anyone really believes the Aussies will make it 4 years at SLU if RM is there 4 more years. Won't happen and by the end of next year I would bet you can add 3-5 more transfers out. RM knows basketball no doubt. RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Iken Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 You all can knock Roy all you want. It won't change what Majerus is. I can tell you from being on the inside that he is a horses a$$ period. He treats the players like $hit. Kevin and Tommie would have blown out this year if it would not have been their last year. I also know that another of the players you all are counting on for next year won't be back. I know there are those inside the SLU basketball organization that believe that bringing the kids here from Australia is a travesty. They have never had to deal with someone like RM. I can't begin to imagine how they are going to come 3000 miles from home and stomach it. Before you say it, let me address it. Yes all recruits can read about RM and know what to expect. They can read about him yes, but you can't understand it until you live it. I will cover all bets if anyone really believes the Aussies will make it 4 years at SLU if RM is there 4 more years. Won't happen and by the end of next year I would bet you can add 3-5 more transfers out. RM knows basketball no doubt. RM is taking out his anger at God or the world for never having the talent himself to play on the players! Ruben, is that you? Brett, maybe? Whatever...useless rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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