Early summer observations

[slufanskip]

saint louis university (not rickma, as i am convinced daniel lisch was not rickma's idea) did not do the lisch's any favors with the daniel one year scholarship. and it was not a good decision on the lisch's part to take the deal if it was truly clearly defined as a one year deal (which i think the deal was defined as for one year only.)

to think that from an academic standpoint daniel got great benefits from a freshman year at saint louis university is naive. i seriously doubt future employment suitors are going to care one bit that he has 30 credit hours from slu. all they will care about is where he indeed got his final degree from. so there was no favor from that stand point as well.

Of course it was a favor. He got a free year of school at SLU when SLU had nothing to gain from having Daniel on the team for the year. I agree it wasn't a good idea for Lisch's to take the offer as it appears they had higher expectations regardless of what was made clear upfront. It seems painfully obvious the Lisch's thought Daniel could impress enough to get the scholarship renewed ala Paul E. They were wrong, and I truly believe that a part of their frustrations with RM come from that poor judgement on their part. The Lisch family had an entire year to observe RM and be sure that they wanted their second son to play for him and chose Yes. Then when their unrealistic expectations didn't work out they are unhappy. They knew what they were gettin into ... if they didn't boo on them.

[ACE]

saint louis university (not rickma, as i am convinced daniel lisch was not rickma's idea) did not do the lisch's any favors with the daniel one year scholarship. and it was not a good decision on the lisch's part to take the deal if it was truly clearly defined as a one year deal (which i think the deal was defined as for one year only.)

to think that from an academic standpoint daniel got great benefits from a freshman year at saint louis university is naive. i seriously doubt future employment suitors are going to care one bit that he has 30 credit hours from slu. all they will care about is where he indeed got his final degree from. so there was no favor from that stand point as well.

How could the Lisch family NOT know it was a one-year deal? Everybody here knew it was a one-year deal. If you think it was a bad deal for the Lisch family, then that was their mistake. Maybe they thought it would help Daniel's basketball development to get a chance to practice with a Division I team? BTW, Nobody is making Daniel leave SLU. If he really wants the education, he can pay for it like most students. You did not answer what other Division I offers Daniel had.

[kshoe]

How could the Lisch family NOT know it was a one-year deal? Everybody here knew it was a one-year deal. If you think it was a bad deal for the Lisch family, then that was their mistake. Maybe they thought it would help Daniel's basketball development to get a chance to practice with a Division I team? BTW, Nobody is making Daniel leave SLU. If he really wants the education, he can pay for it like students. You did not answer what other Division I offers Daniel had.

Nobody in their right mind would include Daniel Lisch leaving among a Rick Majerus "players lost" category. Everyone knew what the deal was...except apparently Roy.

[Billikan]

saint louis university (not rickma, as i am convinced daniel lisch was not rickma's idea) did not do the lisch's any favors with the daniel one year scholarship. and it was not a good decision on the lisch's part to take the deal if it was truly clearly defined as a one year deal (which i think the deal was defined as for one year only.)

to think that from an academic standpoint daniel got great benefits from a freshman year at saint louis university is naive. i seriously doubt future employment suitors are going to care one bit that he has 30 credit hours from slu. all they will care about is where he indeed got his final degree from. so there was no favor from that stand point as well.

Roy, I have reached the point where I do not understand where you are coming from--except that you do not like Majerus. You have nothing good to say and you constantly carp about anything that relates to a Majerus coached team. In all seriousness, the good news is that you have the freedom to change your name to anti-Billiken Roy. When you keep posting these negative things, including some absolute falsehoods, your credibility as a supposed Billiken fan is reduced to nothing.

Everyone, including you, knew that the Daniel Lisch deal was for one year. He got a SCHOLARSHIP--in these tough economic times that means his family saved about $40,000 for one year of college tuition- a huge amount for any family to come up with after taxes.

He got to practice with a good D1 team and be coached by a fantastic X and O coach who also has some quirks in his personality. He was not good enough to play D1 basketball yet he got this tremendous opportunity. The coach was hard on him in the sense that he treated him like he was a D1 player. The coach also has a tendency to say whatever comes to mind in a public setting which leads to some uncomfortable moments.

I have been able to watch practice and I can say that this coach is "coaching" every minute. Sure he dislikes stupid plays, lazy passes, a lack of effort, etc. but he also praises good plays and hard effort. He constantly was singing the praises of Kevin for his level of intensity and hard work.

I know you liked Brad and so did I. But Brad could be brutal in practice and I have never seen RM get as intensely angry at practice as Brad did at times. Of course, I think Brad often did not have the quality of players that we have now so he was very frustrated. His demeanor after those losses in conference to the lower level teams could only be described as furious anger!

If you want to keep score on recruits then you should count only those players that RM recruited who left the program. Daniel Lisch does not count because everyone, including him, knew he had a one year scholarship. We have lost two RM recruits. The first was Cotto who after only a very few games let his ego and his buddies convince him that he was a star and needed to play many more minutes even though a senior star was playing ahead of him. I was sorry to lose him but he demonstrated his inability to be a good teammate -- one who understands that patience is often needed, etc--and that sort of player can be poison on a good team with a lot of good players. The second lost recruit is Thompson who reacted to some comments at a banquet that he and his family thought were out of line. I am not happy to see him go but I am not sure how good he would have ever become. I would like to have seen how he might have matured but he made the decision and there is nothing else we can do but root for the players who want to be at SLU.

I am very enthused about the athleticism and potential of the team for next year and particularly the year after. My view of life is that you move on with those who want to be with you in your quest and leave the others to find their way elsewhere. I say let's be positive about the kids we have and stop all the negative crap!

[davidnark]

Thank you Billikan. We appreciate your perspective and insights.

[Clock_Tower]

More good thoughts. And just to add, Daniel got the opportunity to play every day with his big brother and to practice/work out/hang out in the same building with his big sister. Daniel also got to dress, practice, warm up with a decent D1 team, travel with them and sit on the bench the entire year. How do you place a dollar value on that year of experience. Who cares if Daniel gets a job offer b/c of his 1 year at SLU or not. Roy, surely you aren't saying that the 1 year at SLU will be a negative on his resume?

At the same time, I don't question BRoy's loyalities. Believe he's standing up for his friends - the Lisch family. There will come a day when RM is no longer our coach and Roy will, once again, fully support our program.

Roy, I have reached the point where I do not understand where you are coming from--except that you do not like Majerus. You have nothing good to say and you constantly carp about anything that relates to a Majerus coached team. In all seriousness, the good news is that you have the freedom to change your name to anti-Billiken Roy. When you keep posting these negative things, including some absolute falsehoods, your credibility as a supposed Billiken fan is reduced to nothing.

Everyone, including you, knew that the Daniel Lisch deal was for one year. He got a SCHOLARSHIP--in these tough economic times that means his family saved about $40,000 for one year of college tuition- a huge amount for any family to come up with after taxes.

He got to practice with a good D1 team and be coached by a fantastic X and O coach who also has some quirks in his personality. He was not good enough to play D1 basketball yet he got this tremendous opportunity. The coach was hard on him in the sense that he treated him like he was a D1 player. The coach also has a tendency to say whatever comes to mind in a public setting which leads to some uncomfortable moments.

I have been able to watch practice and I can say that this coach is "coaching" every minute. Sure he dislikes stupid plays, lazy passes, a lack of effort, etc. but he also praises good plays and hard effort. He constantly was singing the praises of Kevin for his level of intensity and hard work.

I know you liked Brad and so did I. But Brad could be brutal in practice and I have never seen RM get as intensely angry at practice as Brad did at times. Of course, I think Brad often did not have the quality of players that we have now so he was very frustrated. His demeanor after those losses in conference to the lower level teams could only be described as furious anger!

If you want to keep score on recruits then you should count only those players that RM recruited who left the program. Daniel Lisch does not count because everyone, including him, knew he had a one year scholarship. We have lost two RM recruits. The first was Cotto who after only a very few games let his ego and his buddies convince him that he was a star and needed to play many more minutes even though a senior star was playing ahead of him. I was sorry to lose him but he demonstrated his inability to be a good teammate -- one who understands that patience is often needed, etc--and that sort of player can be poison on a good team with a lot of good players. The second lost recruit is Thompson who reacted to some comments at a banquet that he and his family thought were out of line. I am not happy to see him go but I am not sure how good he would have ever become. I would like to have seen how he might have matured but he made the decision and there is nothing else we can do but root for the players who want to be at SLU.

I am very enthused about the athleticism and potential of the team for next year and particularly the year after. My view of life is that you move on with those who want to be with you in your quest and leave the others to find their way elsewhere. I say let's be positive about the kids we have and stop all the negative crap!

[slu72]

Hats off to Billikan again! I know a couple of years ago under UB, Billikan was one of his biggest supporters despite many of us calling for his head. He defended him because he was our coach and you can't fault him for that. I'd guess if you had Billikan and Broy in the same bar the day UB was fired the amount of tears in the beers would have been equal. But when Biondi goes out and makes the big splash with the hire of RM. Billikan moves on.... Broy stays PO'd. Yes, we all know now that RM is a quirky guy who's got a tongue that could reduce Godzilla to tears. Broy doesn't like that. It goes counter to this nice guy image SLU is supposed to have. Too bad Bing Crosby's dead, Broy would love to have kindly Father Flannigan sitting on the bench urging the boys to victory but greeting them with a hug and a shoulder to cry on as they go 0-31. Cripes, get over it and give the guy a chance.

[billiken_roy]

daniel had and has full scholarship opportunities. slu wasnt his only scholarship offer. so the family money savings does not enter into the picture from my understanding. i also believe that clock is probably correct in stating that the opportunity to go to college with his brother and sister one year was a big factor.

i am still a huge billiken fan. i just dont see why our players have to be treated as such to be a successful program.

[ACE]

daniel had and has full scholarship opportunities. slu wasnt his only scholarship offer. so the family money savings does not enter into the picture from my understanding. i also believe that clock is probably correct in stating that the opportunity to go to college with his brother and sister one year was a big factor.

i am still a huge billiken fan. i just dont see why our players have to be treated as such to be a successful program.

But did he have Division I full scholarship opportunities?

[billiken_roy]

But did he have Division I full scholarship opportunities?

i thought the point was his getting his education paid for? if he is such a terrible basketball talent why does d-1 matter?

[GOSLU68]

Too bad Bing Crosby's dead, Broy would love to have kindly Father Flannigan sitting on the bench urging the boys to victory but greeting them with a hug and a shoulder to cry on as they go 0-31. Cripes, get over it and give the guy a chance.

poor analogy (in spite of wonderful movie images such as White Christmas and "Holiday Inn" ole Bing was reputed to be a hellacious father and one

who handed out corporal punishment that would equal the child rearing of Joan Crawford i.e. "mommy dearest"

The fact that BT is going to go play in his father's backyard may tell us we were lucky that Willie Reed rode into town to highlight many of our games; those of you with the "Great White Hope" thing going on should look to Cody Ellis

[slufanskip]

poor analogy (in spite of wonderful movie images such as White Christmas and "Holiday Inn" ole Bing was reputed to be a hellacious father and one

who handed out corporal punishment that would equal the child rearing of Joan Crawford i.e. "mommy dearest"

The fact that BT is going to go play in his father's backyard may tell us we were lucky that Willie Reed rode into town to highlight many of our games; those of you with the "Great White Hope" thing going on should look to Cody Ellis

Which of us do you think has the Great White Hope thing going on?

[slufanskip]

daniel had and has full scholarship opportunities. slu wasnt his only scholarship offer. so the family money savings does not enter into the picture from my understanding. i also believe that clock is probably correct in stating that the opportunity to go to college with his brother and sister one year was a big factor.

i am still a huge billiken fan. i just dont see why our players have to be treated as such to be a successful program.

So, why do you suppose they took SLU up on the offer? There seems to have been such a small (if any) benefit to the Lisch's for Daniel to come to SLU. It seems strange they would subject Daniel to someone like RM. Must be something to my theory that Daniel being the least talented basketball player in the family is actually looked down upon by the others. Playing for SLU and RM was a punishment for not having done better with the obvious gifts passed on to him by his father.

[Cowboy]

saint louis university (not rickma, as i am convinced daniel lisch was not rickma's idea) did not do the lisch's any favors with the daniel one year scholarship. and it was not a good decision on the lisch's part to take the deal if it was truly clearly defined as a one year deal (which i think the deal was defined as for one year only.)

to think that from an academic standpoint daniel got great benefits from a freshman year at saint louis university is naive. i seriously doubt future employment suitors are going to care one bit that he has 30 credit hours from slu. all they will care about is where he indeed got his final degree from. so there was no favor from that stand point as well.

-if not rick, who gets the credit?

-i don't recall you putting forth this perspective before/while it was happening, why now?

-i sure hope daniel got great academic benefits from the time he spent at slu

[billiken_roy]

-if not rick, who gets the credit?

-i don't recall you putting forth this perspective before/while it was happening, why now?

-i sure hope daniel got great academic benefits from the time he spent at slu

i have presented the "no academic benefit" perspective before on a one year freshmen season deal.

as to not blaming rickma for the daniel lisch fiasco, he obviously hated having him around from day one. went out of his way to constantly tell all it was a one and done deal. tore him apart every waking moment at slu. thus, it seemed to me that he was asked to take him. that is just my observation and i have no insight whatsoever from slu's perspective. i just cant see the point of taking him considering the way the whole thing ended up playing out. surely rickma could have seen the negativity it was going to cause amongst those on and around the team. again just my opinion. i just wish daniel would have never come to slu in hindsight.

101 level classes at slu compared to decent d-3 or d-2 or naia schools 101 level classes would be a great academic benefit? can you explain how? i mean not like he was in the major area of concentration level classes that would have made an academic difference in his final degree imo.

again, if you were a perspective employer in an interview that sees a interviewee had 30 hours of freshmen classes from slu on his academic resume, why would that be a factor in your decision? if anything, assuming you were not a follower of billiken basketball and didnt know the story, if i was the employer, i actually might then question why the interviewee didnt finish.

but more likely i would not give it a second thought. especially from a positive perspective. i would be more concerned where and what the actual diploma was from or concerned. i.e. a final slu diploma is golden. 2 freshmen semesters, not much value.

[Box and Won]

Conspiracy theory - Would Harrelson be brought in to replace Thompson?

I was really disappointed to hear about Thompson transferring. I hope he does well with his new team.

Unrelated: I taught my daughter to say "Billiken." The indoctrination has begun!

[kshoe]

i have presented the "no academic benefit" perspective before on a one year freshmen season deal.

as to not blaming rickma for the daniel lisch fiasco, he obviously hated having him around from day one. went out of his way to constantly tell all it was a one and done deal. tore him apart every waking moment at slu. thus, it seemed to me that he was asked to take him. that is just my observation and i have no insight whatsoever from slu's perspective. i just cant see the point of taking him considering the way the whole thing ended up playing out. surely rickma could have seen the negativity it was going to cause amongst those on and around the team. again just my opinion. i just wish daniel would have never come to slu in hindsight.

Quit guessing Roy.

The facts are this. It was a one and done deal from the get-go. He had to constantly tell people this because people like you failed to grasp it and continue to fail to grasp it by lumping him into the "Majerus lost players" camp.

The whole thing played out exactly like any sane person would have predicted last summer when it was announced.

[TJHawk]

i have presented the "no academic benefit" perspective before on a one year freshmen season deal.

as to not blaming rickma for the daniel lisch fiasco, he obviously hated having him around from day one. went out of his way to constantly tell all it was a one and done deal. tore him apart every waking moment at slu. thus, it seemed to me that he was asked to take him. that is just my observation and i have no insight whatsoever from slu's perspective. i just cant see the point of taking him considering the way the whole thing ended up playing out. surely rickma could have seen the negativity it was going to cause amongst those on and around the team. again just my opinion. i just wish daniel would have never come to slu in hindsight.

101 level classes at slu compared to decent d-3 or d-2 or naia schools 101 level classes would be a great academic benefit? can you explain how? i mean not like he was in the major area of concentration level classes that would have made an academic difference in his final degree imo.

again, if you were a perspective employer in an interview that sees a interviewee had 30 hours of freshmen classes from slu on his academic resume, why would that be a factor in your decision? if anything, assuming you were not a follower of billiken basketball and didnt know the story, if i was the employer, i actually might then question why the interviewee didnt finish.

but more likely i would not give it a second thought. especially from a positive perspective. i would be more concerned where and what the actual diploma was from or concerned. i.e. a final slu diploma is golden. 2 freshmen semesters, not much value.

Roy is right, Rickma should be kissing the ground that the Lisch family walks on. For those keeping score I played in just as many NCAA Tourney games as Big Kev. HCRM ALLOWED a D3 (Maybe) talent practice on his team for a whole year tuition free. How many more deserving kids didn't get that opportunity to play? Roy, you're the winner of the biggest ****** award. The presentation will be on stage before a Fallout Boy concert.

[billiken_roy]

Quit guessing Roy.

The facts are this. It was a one and done deal from the get-go. He had to constantly tell people this because people like you failed to grasp it and continue to fail to grasp it by lumping him into the "Majerus lost players" camp.

The whole thing played out exactly like any sane person would have predicted last summer when it was announced.

so why did rickma have to rip him apart every single practice if he was such a insignificant part of the billiken future, and an obvious gift of an undeserved scholarship? what was the point of that if it wasnt someone else's idea forced on rickma?

and before you say it, it wasnt because he was messing up practice and drills and such.

[billiken_roy]

For those keeping score I played in just as many NCAA Tourney games as Big Kev.

you were probably one of those legendary ku walkons werent you.

it must be something to be a fan of such a great program you can bring it to us unworthy fans like us billiken fans.

if you go back and read (you can read right? i mean you dont have your mother reading and responding for you do you? if so, please, mom, for hawk's own good dont skip this part.)

no one in this thread was asking for anyone to have their walking path kissed. just a little humanity might be nice. there is a huge difference.

[jimbofive]

Daniel got the opportunity to play every day with his big brother and to practice/work out/hang out in the same building with his big sister.

The pity party for Daniel Lisch definitely needs to stop right here. Up until a few years ago, he got to pass Theresa at the bathroom door after her morning shower, EVERY DAMN DAY. I'll bet she smelled like violets and sunshine. Daniel Lisch will get no longing concerto muzak from me...

[Band Legend]

you were probably one of those legendary ku walkons werent you.

it must be something to be a fan of such a great program you can bring it to us unworthy fans like us billiken fans.

if you go back and read (you can read right? i mean you dont have your mother reading and responding for you do you? if so, please, mom, for hawk's own good dont skip this part.)

no one in this thread was asking for anyone to have their walking path kissed. just a little humanity might be nice. there is a huge difference.

Roy, you have to watch out with these KU guys, they're sort of sensitive. I called one of them a d-bag last week and he had a hissy fit, saying I wasn't adding anything to the conversation. I think I was, actually. Now I have to take you to task. How can getting a year's free tuition be a bad thing? If someone was willing to pay full freight for one year at SLU I would let the professors stand over my kid and berate them 24/7. The other aspect of your diatribe is that you hint at unconscionable behavior by Rickma but you lack any specific examples. For someone who desires total transparency on the message board you are not practicing what you preach. We have no specific knowledge of the fiasco that you are alluding to, even if we can all believe that Rickma could be condescending and profane.

[TJHawk]

you were probably one of those legendary ku walkons werent you.

it must be something to be a fan of such a great program you can bring it to us unworthy fans like us billiken fans.

if you go back and read (you can read right? i mean you dont have your mother reading and responding for you do you? if so, please, mom, for hawk's own good dont skip this part.)

no one in this thread was asking for anyone to have their walking path kissed. just a little humanity might be nice. there is a huge difference.

'

Just stop, your insults are lame. HCRM did a D3 Talent (again maybe) a favor by allowing him to practice on the team. NO ONE forced Rick to do this. If Rick didn’t want him he wouldn’t be on the team. Wow, I hope HCRM never recruits another Southern Illinois’ guy again. None seem to be worth it and all we hear is your sorry ass *****.

[billiken_roy]

How can getting a year's free tuition be a bad thing?

if daniel's other alternative was to pay his own way for his freshman year you have a good point. he had scholarship opportunities at other colleges. so the free tuition is not a point imo. daniel was/is going to college on someone else's dime regardless.

[slufanskip]

if daniel's other alternative was to pay his own way for his freshman year you have a good point. he had scholarship opportunities at other colleges. so the free tuition is not a point imo. daniel was/is going to college on someone else's dime regardless.

but his family chose to accept it, even after having known RM for a year. So it was a good thing, do you thing they voluntarily accepted wht they felt was a bad thing for Daniel?