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Posted
16 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I do know how it is, because two of my kids played high school tennis at two different schools and both schools used Dwight Davis as their home court for practice and matches.  For one of my kids, Dwight Davis was about the same distance away as SLU is.  For the other, Dwight Davis was much further away.  They often drove down to find out last minute that a practice or match was canceled.  Neither of them were receiving any scholarship money from their high school to do this and only did because they enjoyed playing the game.

Having said all of this, I understand the challenges faced by our tennis players.  However, they sign to come to SLU knowing this is the situation.  If they are good enough to receive a scholarship (even a partial one) at SLU, that means they were also good enough to play for other schools.  They chose SLU knowing that this would mean practicing and playing off campus. #spendthemoneyonbasketball&soccer

That doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to offer adequate facilities for the sports we field teams for. You're comparing a high school situation to a DIVISION 1 NCAA PROGRAM to somehow rationalize SLU's setup? You know that sometimes they choose SLU and don't know how bad it actually is?  Unreal. I played tennis too, enough to garner at least one college offer. High school tennis is a glorified aftercare outside of 1-4 singles. It's extremely unserious. 

Again, just because there is an "athletics budget" does not mean that those in the Athletics Department can't focus at least minimum effort to expanding that budget when it comes to non-revenue sports. Chaifetz Arena for instance, not part of the budget, but they raised funds for it. 

You say spend the money on basketball and soccer, great then fold up the rest of the sports. At least that makes sense. Right now SLU Athletics fields the teams they field because there are requirements for division 1. Properly fund and support them. Otherwise you're wasting money. If you can't properly support and fund 16 sports, then you don't deserve to be a division 1 athletics director and department. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I do care about tennis.  I play tennis, and it is/was the primary high school sport of two of my three children.  Tennis is great.  However, if Chris May had two million dollars of extra funds, and he had a choice to build tennis courts on campus or spend the money on basketball, soccer, or possibly part of the costs of new baseball/softball stadiums, I am going to choose those other sports every time.

That’s the problem. We have to choose.   Take a look at Dayton and VCU’s tennis facilities.  They must have really robbed their basketball teams to afford those.   Oh wait they seem to be doing just fine.   For some reason SLU’s philosophy is “lets do more with less.”       It’s sad.  

Who are our main competitors?  Why do they have inherent advantages in so many areas?    That is the biggest issue for me.  If we can’t raise funds at the level of other schools in the conference, maybe we need to upgrade.  

Posted
3 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

What's weird is that fans get mad/annoyed when other fans ask for better. 

Here’s the funny part, if Chris May had either not botched the last MBB hire or not extended Travis Ford, these facilities might have come along with a men’s basketball tournament win or two. But that didn’t happen, and that’s on CM. That’s a problem he created and needs to find a way to properly support his programs, it’s not on fans to look the other way. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Here’s the funny part, if Chris May had either not botched the last MBB hire or not extended Travis Ford, these facilities might have come along with a men’s basketball tournament win or two. But that didn’t happen, and that’s on CM. That’s a problem he created and needs to find a way to properly support his programs, it’s not on fans to look the other way. 

Yeah I totally agree. But not even talking in factual or hypothetical situations. This is a fan message board. Are people expecting fans not to want the very very best? Even Alabama football fans aren't ever satisfied. That's just how being a fan goes. 

Posted

An on campus tennis facility wouldn't just benefit the teams, it could be used by all students. Would also be a venue to host summer camps, tournaments, high school events, USTA league matches and playoffs, and with SLU's location potentially a community based tennis program. All things that bring people to campus to showcase the university. 

One of the issues is indoor vs. outdoor. An outdoor facility is relatively inexpensive but to be competitive in the midwest you probably need a minimum of a 6 court indoor facility which is expensive. That is in addition to funding for scholarships, recruiting, travel, etc. But if you build an indoor facility, how do you fill the time (and monetize it) when the teams arent using it? 

Build that and your pool of coaching applicants changes significantly. 

 

 

Posted

Everybody aspire all you want.  Argue passionately for your belief that every sport should have the best of everything.  Try to get the athletic director fired for not funding to your standards.  Spend other peoples money with abandon in your head.  Prioritize budgets you don't control or fully understand.  Compare SLU to institutions they don't resemble or aspire to be like.  It might actually help the situation but don't get butt-hurt when people laugh at you a little on an internet message board...... 

Posted
25 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Everybody aspire all you want.  Argue passionately for your belief that every sport should have the best of everything.  Try to get the athletic director fired for not funding to your standards.  Spend other peoples money with abandon in your head.  Prioritize budgets you don't control or fully understand.  Compare SLU to institutions they don't resemble or aspire to be like.  It might actually help the situation but don't get butt-hurt when people laugh at you a little on an internet message board...... 

Nobody has suggested May be fired for tennis or field hockey facilities. But by all means keep arguing with nobody.

Do you fully understand or control these budgets? (The if you never played you can't talk fallacy)

Another nonsense statement. Anyone suggesting improvements to facilities have done nothing but show comparable sized schools or modest facilities. It's only been the other side that has extrapolated it out to the SEC. (see Roy or Hoosier)

You took all that time to write that out, because you don't care about Tennis right? Just weird, man.

I have no delusions of where Field Hockey or Tennis sits in order of importance in college athletics, especially at SLU. What I do believe is that on campus facilities should be bare minimum for a school like SLU, just as it is for similar schools.  

Like I've said, if Crews and Ford don't fail, then we likely have these facilities. But it's not our job to give Chris May slack that he can't figure out the budget to provide bare minimum facilities because his hires didn't pan out and he didn't get that sweet NCAA money. 

Posted
2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

What's weird is that fans get mad/annoyed when other fans ask for better. 

It is quite odd and they argue so vehemently. God forbid we question why a school like SLU can’t outclass the facilities of the local high schools in all sports. And I’m one who really doesn’t care about college sports beyond football and basketball. It just seems odd that questioning facilities that meet no standard is some aggressive take.

Posted
2 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Everybody aspire all you want.  Argue passionately for your belief that every sport should have the best of everything.  Try to get the athletic director fired for not funding to your standards.  Spend other peoples money with abandon in your head.  Prioritize budgets you don't control or fully understand.  Compare SLU to institutions they don't resemble or aspire to be like.  It might actually help the situation but don't get butt-hurt when people laugh at you a little on an internet message board...... 

Bad post.

Posted
4 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

You took me off Ignore?  Why?  

I have two of the regular posters on Ignore and my posting life is so much better.

Imagine being so consistently wrong you have to burry your head in the sand. Wild way to live. 

Posted
13 hours ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Bad post.

 

It's also true, though somewhat hyperbolic.  We're sniping about tennis and field hockey now.  What's next? Salt water instead of chlorine for the diving team?  It' only fair since Country Day has salt water pools.  Heading to see the Billiken women play soccer tonight.  Wondering why I won't have heated seats and a heads up display to explain the stuff I can't figure out from my Ted Lasso soccer education.  I understand Lindenwood has heated seats.....

Posted
14 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

It is quite odd and they argue so vehemently. God forbid we question why a school like SLU can’t outclass the facilities of the local high schools in all sports. And I’m one who really doesn’t care about college sports beyond football and basketball. It just seems odd that questioning facilities that meet no standard is some aggressive take.

ROI might have something to do with it.  Would indoor tennis courts or a first class baseball stadium help or hurt the bottom line?  There's little chance of any revenue being generated by either and, I'd argue, little in the way of prestige generated. 

Posted
15 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Nobody has suggested May be fired for tennis or field hockey facilities. But by all means keep arguing with nobody.

Do you fully understand or control these budgets? (The if you never played you can't talk fallacy)

Another nonsense statement. Anyone suggesting improvements to facilities have done nothing but show comparable sized schools or modest facilities. It's only been the other side that has extrapolated it out to the SEC. (see Roy or Hoosier)

You took all that time to write that out, because you don't care about Tennis right? Just weird, man.

I have no delusions of where Field Hockey or Tennis sits in order of importance in college athletics, especially at SLU. What I do believe is that on campus facilities should be bare minimum for a school like SLU, just as it is for similar schools.  

Like I've said, if Crews and Ford don't fail, then we likely have these facilities. But it's not our job to give Chris May slack that he can't figure out the budget to provide bare minimum facilities because his hires didn't pan out and he didn't get that sweet NCAA money. 

Outside of basketball and now, shockingly, soccer I have little interest in all the other non revenue sports.  You are correct, I do not care about tennis.  I also know less then you about the athletic department budget but I'd guess you don't know much more than I.  Your definition of minimum facilities obviously is much different from the AD and that's fine but.....I'd guess you'd still have different definitions if we had a few NCAA Tourney credits had Travis ever lived up to expectations........

Posted
52 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Outside of basketball and now, shockingly, soccer I have little interest in all the other non revenue sports.  You are correct, I do not care about tennis.  I also know less then you about the athletic department budget but I'd guess you don't know much more than I.  Your definition of minimum facilities obviously is much different from the AD and that's fine but.....I'd guess you'd still have different definitions if we had a few NCAA Tourney credits had Travis ever lived up to expectations........

Doing a lot of guessing, I don't guess.

I've literally spent the last 6 months talking about how excited I am that a Field Hockey facility is being built on campus. Have I complained about it at all? 

I'm sure you're aware of Josh Schertz's Kaizen philosophy, continuous improvement or change for the better. So yeah, every time you get to a new level, you should be looking for the next level or the next thing to improve for your student athletes. 

1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said:

ROI might have something to do with it.  Would indoor tennis courts or a first class baseball stadium help or hurt the bottom line?  There's little chance of any revenue being generated by either and, I'd argue, little in the way of prestige generated. 

Please show me in this thread where anyone has asked for indoor tennis courts? Please show me where anyone has asked for a "first class" baseball stadium? You guys keep extrapolating the request for tennis courts on par with a suburban public high school and a baseball facility on par with SIUE (privately funded) neither of which would be considered first class. It'd be nice if you at least would present your case in good faith. 

Posted

the AD is given a final budget number from the BoT and from that he has to satisfy as many as possible yet make sure the little engine we have, the men's basketball team, has all it needs to succeed.   i suggest you with a wish list look elsewhere for your target to beat on.  last, since you guys are sitting there in dreamland, let's say $100 million dollars fall into our laps to spend.   that would probably be enough to do some real damage to your dream list of non revenue sports needs.  

according to wikipedia the SLU endowment was $1,700,000,000 in 2023.     $100,000,000 of that amount is a rather insignificant percentage (less than 6%) and would still leave us with an endowment of $1,600,000,000.  and while a good portion of that is restricted, i doubt if that amount used would be.   you guys need to pressure the BoT.   we have hit up our whales enough, plus we will continue to lean on them likely for all the regular needs of the basketball program.   get the money from our savings account.  either than or you come up with the new boosters that will write those needed checks and give the money to fund new sports and all.  otherwise get off this sports expansion thing.  it isnt going to happen without coming up with the funds.   and the only existing funds are in the hands of the BoT

Posted
38 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

the AD is given a final budget number from the BoT and from that he has to satisfy as many as possible yet make sure the little engine we have, the men's basketball team, has all it needs to succeed.   i suggest you with a wish list look elsewhere for your target to beat on.  last, since you guys are sitting there in dreamland, let's say $100 million dollars fall into our laps to spend.   that would probably be enough to do some real damage to your dream list of non revenue sports needs.  

according to wikipedia the SLU endowment was $1,700,000,000 in 2023.     $100,000,000 of that amount is a rather insignificant percentage (less than 6%) and would still leave us with an endowment of $1,600,000,000.  and while a good portion of that is restricted, i doubt if that amount used would be.   you guys need to pressure the BoT.   we have hit up our whales enough, plus we will continue to lean on them likely for all the regular needs of the basketball program.   get the money from our savings account.  either than or you come up with the new boosters that will write those needed checks and give the money to fund new sports and all.  otherwise get off this sports expansion thing.  it isnt going to happen without coming up with the funds.   and the only existing funds are in the hands of the BoT

Roy, does the BoT control what Chris May decides to fundraise outside of the annual budget? No they don’t. 
 

How many times do you need to be told the endowment isn’t a checking or a savings account you can just hit the ATM up for? 

Posted
53 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Doing a lot of guessing, I don't guess.

I've literally spent the last 6 months talking about how excited I am that a Field Hockey facility is being built on campus. Have I complained about it at all? 

I'm sure you're aware of Josh Schertz's Kaizen philosophy, continuous improvement or change for the better. So yeah, every time you get to a new level, you should be looking for the next level or the next thing to improve for your student athletes. 

Please show me in this thread where anyone has asked for indoor tennis courts? Please show me where anyone has asked for a "first class" baseball stadium? You guys keep extrapolating the request for tennis courts on par with a suburban public high school and a baseball facility on par with SIUE (privately funded) neither of which would be considered first class. It'd be nice if you at least would present your case in good faith. 

Ok, in good faith, please show me the athletic department budget.  No guessing allowed.  I'd like to know your immediate priorities, how you'd fund them and what you'd cut.  It's pretty easy to say tennis or whatever is under-supported without knowing any details or having to make decisions about it. Do you go out and buy a new car every time your next door neighbor does?

Oh and I think Willie mentioned indoor tennis courts, you know, if we wanted to be on par with local high schools or whatever.  I think both sides are guilty of debating against the extremes, not that Willie is that.....       

Posted

I mentioned indoor tennis courts and of course it is a want and not something that is going to happen without a gift. And it is my understanding the school was close a couple of years ago, with a gift that didn't materialize for a variety of reasons. I will say that it is naive to say no one cares about these sports. I care about tennis and many of my friends do too. We support basketball but also this one non-revenue sport.  And I will tell you that at least two very significant donors care about tennis and the coaching situation and an on campus facility. People who have their names on parts of Chaifetz and the Champions Center or other campus buildings and who give 6-7 figure gifts to the university annually. They likely won't fund a tennis facility but would contribute when it happens. At some point it will happen, when the time is right. Most likely outdoor.

Jason Stuckey did a nice job and I am hoping James Tobin will also. A current NCAA coach who is a friend (with a national championship) speaks highly of him but also pointed out the challenges he faces. He is passionate about being a coach, loves St. Louis, and has good contacts locally. That last one matters with two good junior tennis academies here in town. I am rooting for him and am hopeful that funding and facilities are on the road map at some point. As I said previously, it would help the tennis program, but would also help the broader university. 

Can't wait for basketball to start.

Posted

Checking the roster for both squads after the coaching turnover and late replacement. The men’s team is returning all six of their eligible players.  New coach will need to add a few before the season starts but he definitely doesn’t have to do a full rebuild.    The women’s team lost Kate Sexton and Norhan Hesham.   Sexton didn’t play much and Hesham was #2 Singles.  Five players are retuning.  A bit surprised with the roster continuity for both.  Go Bills!  

Posted
2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Roy, does the BoT control what Chris May decides to fundraise outside of the annual budget? No they don’t. 
 

How many times do you need to be told the endowment isn’t a checking or a savings account you can just hit the ATM up for? 

There is a minimumal amount that can be gotten with board action.   It might have tax implications but it is not impossible.   What you all are asking for is not everyday financial transactions.   And while it may take time to accomplish, it is not impossible.   

 

 

 

 

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